Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
John,
I read somewhere that the Felder technology (PCS) added about 10K $ to the cost of the machine. Assuming this is the right ? order of magnitude ? it becomes easier to see how this extra cost can be offset by savings in insurance premiums (and human trauma associated with severe accidents). In other words, the savings in insurance premiums does not automatically equal the full cost of the equipment but rather the marginal portion pertaining to the safety system. One still has to deal with the cash flow/investment size of the equation though.
Jacques
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Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
The accessories really add up, don¡¯t they!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
John Hinman,
I¡¯ve spent nearly a third of that for my K700S, along with all my current accessories, this was a huge expense for me and my ¡°woodworking¡± salary. ?But I¡¯m enjoying the investment! ? Now of course my saw has no ¡°anti-wiener cut off¡± thingamajig installed on it, so I just relay on being damn careful! ???? ?I can still do math with all ten of my fingers! ??. And in about 90 days I¡¯ll be even safer, Mac¡¯s clamps are coming! ???????
Thx,
Wade
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On Feb 28, 2023, at 3:59 PM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
?$75k is a lot of money. I¡¯m curious - how many of the people in this group who make a living in woodworking can justify that kind of outlay?
As far as volume goes, these features have to come on mass-market machines in order to get volume. Even the Hammer brand probably does not have enough volume to justify developing a less costly but still reliable version.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
Jason, did the Stiles rep tell you how much the hand saver adds to the cost of the machine?
I¡¯m just curious, as I am not in the market for a $75,000 saw. I like the idea of the safety feature, but have never been impressed with the overall quality of SawStop saws.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
A commercial shop with employees might very well be able to justify this type of saw given the decrease in insurance rates. One lost finger or hand could easily cost hundreds of thousands in claims.
As for volume, it¡¯s like anything else, quote 20 pieces vs. 100 pieces vs. 1000 pieces and the whole adoption of the technology becomes infinitely more affordable. Will it ever trickle down to all saws, I doubt it, but then some folks never thought seat belts and airbags would be in all cars either. It will most likely depend upon how many lawsuits come along as to how quick the safety approach wins out.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Feb 28, 2023, at 4:59 PM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
$75k is a lot of money. I¡¯m curious - how many of the people in this group who make a living in woodworking can justify that kind of outlay?
As far as volume goes, these features have to come on mass-market machines in order to get volume. Even the Hammer brand probably does not have enough volume to justify developing a less costly but still reliable version.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
$75k is a lot of money. I¡¯m curious - how many of the people in this group who make a living in woodworking can justify that kind of outlay?
As far as volume goes, these features have to come on mass-market machines in order to get volume. Even the Hammer brand probably does not have enough volume to justify developing a less costly but still reliable version.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
That¡¯s the same as Felder, only on the top of the line machine at this time. It is going to take some volume sales to bring the prices down to where they can offer this sort of thing on the ¡°less than top of the line¡± saws.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Feb 28, 2023, at 4:19 PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
My local Stiles rep stopped by today. The hand saver option is only available on the F45 Elmo controller equipped saw. Top of the line, near $75k. Gulp. They do hope to bring it down the line including the much more approachable F25 series saw.? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Altendorf, The inventor of the slider
My local Stiles rep stopped by today. The hand saver option is only available on the F45 Elmo controller equipped saw. Top of the line, near $75k. Gulp. They do hope to bring it down the line including the much more approachable F25 series saw.? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
Thanks, Bill!! I¡¯ll purchase a couple when I return from travel on March 16th. ? -Aaron Inami ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 10:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Bill Belanger's products on Etsy ? Aaron, I've added a 120mm to 6" adapter to my shop ? Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander.? Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 3:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Bill Belanger's products on Etsy ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK
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Calibration of Format 4 Kappa 400 x-motion saw
Success! Thanks all. Emery?
Begin forwarded message:
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From: Emery Salesky <emerys22@...> Date: February 26, 2023 at 9:52:08 AM EST To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Calibration of Format 4 Kappa 400 x-motion saw
?
I loosened nut #7 instead of #3 not realizing that the bolt geometry and tolerance didn't allow for lateral movement.? I did so in the misguided belief that I wouldn't have to adjust the height nuts, #3, yet again.? I will try again, this time meticulously following your video's David; and yes, I did watch all of them.
I will also check for "paint lock" Mac.
The toe-out measurement was done in strict accordance with your video David.
Thanks all again for all of your help.
Emery
On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 10:18:24?PM EST, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
Excellent point Mac. ?I found a couple of the studs on my Kappa 400 to have the spherical washers imbedded in the paint. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Feb 25, 2023, at 6:32 PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote:
The bottom cylindrical washer is probably stuck to paint or power er coat knock with a block, I normally grease between the concave convex washers .?
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Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
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On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 12:14 PM Wade Dees via <wjdsignature= [email protected]> wrote: Bill,
Do you have 120mm to 5¡± adapter by chance?
Thx,
Wade On Feb 28, 2023, at 10:49 AM, Bill Belanger <Bill@...> wrote:
? Aaron, I've added a 120mm to 6" adapter to my shop.
Bill B¨¦langer
Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander.? Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 3:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Bill Belanger's products on Etsy ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK
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Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
Bill,
Do you have 120mm to 5¡± adapter by chance?
Thx,
Wade
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On Feb 28, 2023, at 10:49 AM, Bill Belanger <Bill@...> wrote:
? Aaron, I've added a 120mm to 6" adapter to my shop.
Bill B¨¦langer
Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander.? Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 3:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Bill Belanger's products on Etsy ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK
|
Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
Aaron, I've added a 120mm to 6" adapter to my shop.
Bill B¨¦langer
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander.? Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2023 3:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Bill Belanger's products on Etsy ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK
|
Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
Thanks for that David. I have a 140mm to 6" adapter on my Etsy store.
Bill
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On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 9:17 AM David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote: You can see all the details of my dust extraction setup at this link.?
The Dual 51 has a 140mm extraction port and I use two sections of 140mm ID flex hose. Nordfab supplied 6¡± QG to 140mm OD connectors. The flex hose is the HD variety sold by Felder with Felder 140mm Quick Connect fittings on the end of each hose section.? David Best - via mobile phone? ? David Best,
So you use a 6¡± diameter dust collection hose for your dual 51, is the machines outlet 120mm? ?
Thx,
Wade
?In my experience, it¡¯s a lot more friendly to have separate extractor input hoses for jointer and planer modes on a large combination J/P.? I hate wrestling with a long unwieldy 6¡± hose.? Far easier to have to pickup hoses with a blast-gate on each.
<12240216793_7bae9996e0_c.jpg>
Aaron,
Do you remove the collector hose each time you turn the operation over on the jointer/planer combo machine?? I was thinking that if you have some extra ¡°slack¡± in the hose length, that it just flips over to the other side of the machine without having to disconnect each time, no?? Seems I see people doing it this way, but not 100% certain. Won¡¯t get my combo unit until June, to see for myself. ?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 27, 2023, at 5:35 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
? Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander.? Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK?
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Re: Made some sawdust yesterday.
Nice work.? Looks like fun.?I see leaves on the trees.? Makes me hopeful.? I would like to be outside making saw dust too but worry if I set a tool down it would blow off the bench and disappear into a snow drift.?
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Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
You can see all the details of my dust extraction setup at this link.?
The Dual 51 has a 140mm extraction port and I use two sections of 140mm ID flex hose. Nordfab supplied 6¡± QG to 140mm OD connectors. The flex hose is the HD variety sold by Felder with Felder 140mm Quick Connect fittings on the end of each hose section.? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Feb 28, 2023, at 7:23 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? David Best,
So you use a 6¡± diameter dust collection hose for your dual 51, is the machines outlet 120mm? ?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 27, 2023, at 9:48 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? In my experience, it¡¯s a lot more friendly to have separate extractor input hoses for jointer and planer modes on a large combination J/P. ?I hate wrestling with a long unwieldy 6¡± hose. ?Far easier to have to pickup hoses with a blast-gate on each.
<12240216793_7bae9996e0_c.jpg>
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Feb 27, 2023, at 6:05 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
Aaron,
Do you remove the collector hose each time you turn the operation over on the jointer/planer combo machine? ?I was thinking that if you have some extra ¡°slack¡± in the hose length, that it just flips over to the other side of the machine without having to disconnect each time, no? ?Seems I see people doing it this way, but not 100% certain. Won¡¯t get my combo unit until June, to see for myself. ?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 27, 2023, at 5:35 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
? Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander. ?Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK?
|
Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
After looking at David Best's pictures, I actually looked up the specs on the Felder machines.? The Felder 51/510 sized machines actually have a 140mm port (5.5"), so I would think you can clamp down a 6" hose onto this.? The smaller 410 and under machines all use 120mm ports (4.72").
Andy - the restriction/loss of 5 foot of hose is equivalent to about 20 feet of smooth duct (i.e. spiral or Nordfab).? I want to try to remove as much of this hose restriction as possible.? This is really important on edge sanders, but I have read posts from people who are using 6" hose on their 41 size jointer/planers with a lot of success.
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Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
Is it better to reduce down to 5 beforehand?
David Best,
So you use a 6¡± diameter dust collection hose for your dual 51, is the machines outlet 120mm? ?
Thx,
Wade
?In my experience, it¡¯s a lot more friendly to have separate extractor input hoses for jointer and planer modes on a large combination J/P.? I hate wrestling with a long unwieldy 6¡± hose.? Far easier to have to pickup hoses with a blast-gate on each.
Aaron,
Do you remove the collector hose each time you turn the operation over on the jointer/planer combo machine?? I was thinking that if you have some extra ¡°slack¡± in the hose length, that it just flips over to the other side of the machine without having to disconnect each time, no?? Seems I see people doing it this way, but not 100% certain. Won¡¯t get my combo unit until June, to see for myself. ?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 27, 2023, at 5:35 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
? Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander.? Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK?
|
Re: Bill Belanger's products on Etsy
David Best,
So you use a 6¡± diameter dust collection hose for your dual 51, is the machines outlet 120mm? ?
Thx,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 27, 2023, at 9:48 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? In my experience, it¡¯s a lot more friendly to have separate extractor input hoses for jointer and planer modes on a large combination J/P. ?I hate wrestling with a long unwieldy 6¡± hose. ?Far easier to have to pickup hoses with a blast-gate on each.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Feb 27, 2023, at 6:05 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
Aaron,
Do you remove the collector hose each time you turn the operation over on the jointer/planer combo machine? ?I was thinking that if you have some extra ¡°slack¡± in the hose length, that it just flips over to the other side of the machine without having to disconnect each time, no? ?Seems I see people doing it this way, but not 100% certain. Won¡¯t get my combo unit until June, to see for myself. ?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 27, 2023, at 5:35 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
? Hi Bill, ? One of the things I¡¯m going to ask from you is a ¡°120mm port to 6¡± hose adapter¡±.? So that we can quickly connect/disconnect a 6¡± hose from things like a Felder jointer/planer and edge sander. ?Not urgent because I won¡¯t be able to buy until March 16, but I would want to order two of these.? You¡¯ve got all sorts of adapters, but I¡¯m surprised nobody has asked for this one. ? -Aaron ? ? Thanks for the kind words and I¡¯m so happy that you¡¯re happy!!! Let me know if you need anything else. ? Bill,
Both items you have shipped me have been great.? They fit well and the color match is even great.
Keep it coming!
PK?
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Re: KF 700 spindle start up issue
I would start by checking you start and run capacitors.? If the circuit trips after you let go of the start switch the issue is likely your run cap.
Capacitors are typically the weak point in single phase motors. Obviously there could me a host of other issues but this is where I would start.?
-Kyle?
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Jason Holtz
Bill Belanger
Jonathan Smith
David P. Best