Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Hi Derek,
I don¡¯t know about wages/cost of living, that¡¯s why I asked. Seems you can find just about any figure you want from high to low on the internet, so it¡¯s hard to say what is correct.?
As for your right testicle¡. I suspect you did give that for some of those Japanese chisels, prices I saw for those on the net, for less of them than you have, was about 5k. So, what you are willing to pay for imported items has a direct correlation as to what tool is important to you. Beautiful work bench by the way¡.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 5, 2023, at 9:51 AM, Derek Cohen <derekcohen@...> wrote:
Brian, I very much doubt that the average income in Oz is $100K. Chris is right to correct me on import duty. All just goes to say that woodworking is not an inexpensive endeavor, and it has become that much more costly since Covid. None of this in any way should detract from your tools. I would happily give my right testicle for them.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Preferred 27mm hose length?
5m hoses here, no regrets, sometimes I need to scoot it away from under my feet, but I'd rather that, than not have enough length.? Also good for overhead stand, hang from ceiling, etc.
Tom - Do you have the Mirka Deros???? What are your thoughts on paddle switch ?? I have Festool slide and toggle switches , and am in the market for a new sander either Deros 125/150 or Festool ETS150.? It would seem awkward having a paddle switch when trying to hold the sander in different positions, but I have never used one.
thanks.....
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
¡here is one data point from the OECD - average wages - measured in US$ - please note that is one of many indicators for comparison.
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Brian, I very much doubt that the average income in Oz is $100K. Chris is right to correct me on import duty. All just goes to say that woodworking is not an inexpensive endeavor, and it has become that much more costly since Covid. None of this in any way should detract from your tools. I would happily give my right testicle for them.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
So you have this bench for hand work and the MFT for festool clamps and the like?? That¡¯s nice to have both. Right now I have just an MFT/assembly table. I¡¯d like to build a solid workbench for hand would be great to somehow combine the two.?
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Hi Derek,
That really doesn¡¯t answer my query, you are talking about buying non-Australian goods with the cost of importation and currency calculations.?
I tried to find some information on average weekly income, which according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics is over 100k per year and the US comes in at about 70k, I don¡¯t know if those figures are accurate, just what I found on the net. It appears cost of living in Australia is about 8-10% higher than in the US.
So, near as I can tell, you might actually, on average, being doing as well or slightly better than the US, when it comes to income vs. expenses. I don¡¯t think you can compare importing specific, expensive items from out of the country as prohibitively expensive, if it¡¯s something you need/want. I think those sorts of expenses occur to all of us regardless of where we live if we want something from another country.
Your solutions look great, and in the interest of saving money and safety is what brought about all the products we make. We just took it a step further and decided to make and sell them to those that wanted them as well.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 4, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Derek Cohen <derekcohen@...> wrote:
Brian asked:?
My question for you on currency rates is how does the Australian dollar hold against Australian product? Wages vs. cost? What¡¯s an average wage and what does a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs cost? Or even better, a pound of aluminum and what does anodizing cost? Those are my biggest expenses. This is out of my own curiosity¡.
Recently I decided to build a MFT with track hinge and fence.? Why build and not just purchase? Well, I was not sure if I would find a MFT useful for sawing (although I could see the value as an assembly table, and for hold work for routing and sanding). Plus the Festool MFT locally cost $1600 AUD ($800 USD in the USA), which was a lot to satisfy my curiosity.? In addition, reading the other FOG (Festool Owners Group), the Festool hinge system (for the rail on the MFT) had come in for quite a bit of criticism, and the preferred aftermarket hinges came from Benchdogs and Dashboard. The Benchdogs hinge is??190?from the UK ($340 AUD), and the Dashboard is $290 USD (or $430 AUD) before shipping costs are added in. The Benchdogs fence was another??90 ($160 AUD).?
So it came down to $1600 from Festool Australia vs around $800 from Benchdogs for the hinge and fence, and still need a MFT table top. These are all at least twice the cost of comparable items in the USA. I would add that the cost of living in Australia is than the USA, and so the 100% higher cost of tools indicates how much ground we have to make up. Further, average income in Australia ($57K USD p.a.) is about 25% lower than in the USA ($71K USD p.a.).??
I decided to build my own. Total costs: $50 for materials from a woodworking friend with CNC to make a template to rout the holes for a MFT top. And then around $90 for 6mm aluminium sheets to machine a hinge (using basic woodworking tools, such as a bandsaw, router and drill).?
Was it worth the effort? Was this false economy?
1200mm x 600mm MFT table (plus 300mm extension) ...
The Hinge
Front ...
?
Rear (before added spacer) ...
After added spacer ...
?
?
?
Detail of fence ...
Dimensions for all are on my website:??
Bottom line for me, Brian - I will happily purchase tools if they are affordable. In Oz they are priced excessively, and the current economic climate is not looking good, and getting worse. I am fortunate that I can afford most things, but that does not mean that I am willing to lash out. I am also fortunate that I have a go-for-it attitude, and will then just build what I want. These then get passed on to others, hopefully to benefit from my efforts.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Preferred 27mm hose length?
Hi Wade,?
At the risk of making a broad, definitive statement, I will say that it has been my experience that all of the European hoses and vacs that I've used conform to the standard 50mm vac-end connection, with the exception of the Starmix hoses, which are only compatible with Starmix vacs, but the Starmix vacs will accept any 50mm hose end.?
In terms of vacs, at this point I've consolidated down to re-branded Starmix vacs (Metabo, Mafell, etc....), and Nilfisk vacs.
So, until Festool converts to a proprietary vac/hose connection, their vacs should be compatible with any brand hose with a 50mm cuff/end.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Danke Lourens. Perhaps we should be posting some of the work we do. I don't consider these fixtures to be fine craft. The MFT is really crude work. Fine work is done with hand tools. Here is my work bench. Jarrah base and European Oak top. Recently I added the underbench cabinet. That is a mitred through dovetail case, and filled with "interesting drawers".  I built the cabinet to house hand tools. It was a fun build. All the drawers have multiple compartments, with the exception of this one, which holds mortice chisels ...  One of the drawer holding squares ...  Slide the top tray back, and ...  A drawer with my favourite Japanese slicks, by Kiyohisa (I am not sure if he is still with us) ...  Slide the top tray back, and bench chisels (oire nomi) by Kiyohisa ... ?  Lourens, I would love to see some of your work. Regards from Perth Derek
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Re: Preferred 27mm hose length?
Hello Tom Gensmer,
Can Mirka hoses be used with Festool vacuums/tool connections? ?If so, that¡¯s huge savings on hose costs.?
Thx,
Wade
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On Mar 5, 2023, at 7:15 AM, tom@... wrote:
?A little off-topic, but I'd appreciate the wisdom this group may have to offer.?
After many years of useful service, I'm preparing to retire my old 27mm dust hoses, and am looking at ordering some new 27mm hoses. My existing 27mm hoses are of the standard 3.5m length, Festool brand.?
A few years ago I started using a 36mm 5m hose, and really appreciated the additional length, particularly in the context of general clean-up (on-site, and in the Shop). This got me wondering if I would benefit from a 5m length for the 27mm hose, or if the extra length would get in the way??
Festool 27mm-32mm 3.5m hose:??
Festool 27mm-32mm 5m hose: ??
Alternatively, I can get a 3.5m tapered Mirka hose for significantly lower cost. I'd be missing out on the braided sleeve on the newer Festool hoses, but I wouldn't have to go to the trouble of removing and throwing away the newer Festool hose ends, either.?
Mirka 27mm-32mm 3.5m hose:??
Curious what feedback other users have in terms of 27mm hose length, particularly those who've tried the 5m length.?
As a side note, I'm also considering a sleeved Mirka hose/cord combo, as I'm migrating most of my sanders to the Mirka platform (Deros, Leros, etc...), and it might be nice to work a little further away from the vac when sanding for longer periods, particularly with the Leros.
Mirka Sleeved hose/cord: ??
Lastly, I can say I've been really happy using the Mirka 27mm x 20" hose whips. Most Mirka sanders (and several other tool brands) use a barbed connection on their tool which matches the ribs on a standard 27mm hose, allowing you to thread the hose directly on to the tool. It has been my experience that this helps to make the sanders that much more easy to handle, since the flex point of the hose is closer to the tool than if you had a connector at the end of the hose. I've also found this to allow for quicker switching between tools, and allows for using a 36mm hose as the "trunk", if the tool would benefit from that.
Mirka 27mm hose whip:??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Preferred 27mm hose length?
A little off-topic, but I'd appreciate the wisdom this group may have to offer.?
After many years of useful service, I'm preparing to retire my old 27mm dust hoses, and am looking at ordering some new 27mm hoses. My existing 27mm hoses are of the standard 3.5m length, Festool brand.?
A few years ago I started using a 36mm 5m hose, and really appreciated the additional length, particularly in the context of general clean-up (on-site, and in the Shop). This got me wondering if I would benefit from a 5m length for the 27mm hose, or if the extra length would get in the way??
Festool 27mm-32mm 3.5m hose:??
Festool 27mm-32mm 5m hose: ??
Alternatively, I can get a 3.5m tapered Mirka hose for significantly lower cost. I'd be missing out on the braided sleeve on the newer Festool hoses, but I wouldn't have to go to the trouble of removing and throwing away the newer Festool hose ends, either.?
Mirka 27mm-32mm 3.5m hose:??
Curious what feedback other users have in terms of 27mm hose length, particularly those who've tried the 5m length.?
As a side note, I'm also considering a sleeved Mirka hose/cord combo, as I'm migrating most of my sanders to the Mirka platform (Deros, Leros, etc...), and it might be nice to work a little further away from the vac when sanding for longer periods, particularly with the Leros.
Mirka Sleeved hose/cord: ??
Lastly, I can say I've been really happy using the Mirka 27mm x 20" hose whips. Most Mirka sanders (and several other tool brands) use a barbed connection on their tool which matches the ribs on a standard 27mm hose, allowing you to thread the hose directly on to the tool. It has been my experience that this helps to make the sanders that much more easy to handle, since the flex point of the hose is closer to the tool than if you had a connector at the end of the hose. I've also found this to allow for quicker switching between tools, and allows for using a 36mm hose as the "trunk", if the tool would benefit from that.
Mirka 27mm hose whip:??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Hi Derek, I¡¯m very impressed with your D.I.Y. approach, your worktable is beautiful and I imagine very useful. You are indeed a master craftsman.
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On 05 Mar 2023, at 11:52, Derek Cohen <derekcohen@...> wrote:
?You are very kind, Jonathan.
I think that this forum is more about machines and related fixtures than about furniture making ... unless we can demonstrate joinery skills with our machines? That would be helpful for all, I imagine.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Parallel Guide for Hammer K3 mk3
Hi Derek,? I apologise for my delayed response, just turned 06h08 on Sunday, 5 March 2023 here in Pretoria, South Africa. I wholeheartedly support your innovative mindset, you are obviously an Australian ¡°boer¡± because you ¡°maak ¡®n plan¡±. My intention is not to knock your initiative, in fact I envy and highly respect your capabilities. I also realise that you did not create this thread to promote Brian Lambs¡¯ products. I just thought it a suitable opportunity to share my experiences. I can assure you, it required a substantial amount of savings and wife coaxing to buy Brian¡¯s products but it was well worth it in hindsight. Keep up the good work and helpful initiatives, this forum needs guys like you. Regards
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On 05 Mar 2023, at 04:23, Derek Cohen <derekcohen@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Derek, that¡¯s great that you have something that works for you. How do you do tapers and angles with that wide jig on the end?
Brian, actually simple enough. The stop on the Incra fence slides along the face ¡   All one has to do is run it to the near end. That will provide a very secure nook for the end of the board to be tapered. Further, since there is a stop, cuts are repeatable.? Of course, if you really want to go nuts cutting tapers, then this is the ultimate fixture for a slider ¡  Article: ? After turning ...  Brian, the second part of your reply involved finances. I shall post to this in a new thread as it is easier to illustrate with another fixture I built (as I could not justify the costs of a new one). I think that this will be welcomed by those with a similar outlook and need to myself. Later. Regards from Perth Derek
?
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Very nice build Derek, thanks for showing it.
Bon
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Derek,
Ah, okay. ?The one reason that drove me to investing in a slider was shop floor space. My sheet-good processing set up consisted of three tool areas. ?One was my PM2000 American table saw, along with an MFT table to perform cross-cutting, and finally a 3¡¯x7¡¯ torsion box table to rip my sheet goods down to widths. ?It took up a lot of valuable space. ?Took all three stations and combined them into my K700S and it couldn¡¯t be a better setup for me. ?Sold the torsion box, MFT table, and cabinet saw. Now my Festool track saw sits in a box on my shelf collecting dust! ???
Thx,
Wade
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On Mar 5, 2023, at 4:54 AM, Derek Cohen <derekcohen@...> wrote:
?Hi Wade
Yes, I have a Hammer K3. I posted a parallel guide for it just a short while ago.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Hi Wade
Yes, I have a Hammer K3. I posted a parallel guide for it just a short while ago.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Hi Derek Cohen,
Just curious, do you own a slider machine as well? ?Nice looking MFT build too!
Thx,
Wade
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On Mar 4, 2023, at 10:55 PM, Derek Cohen <derekcohen@...> wrote:
?Brian asked:?
My question for you on currency rates is how does the Australian dollar hold against Australian product? Wages vs. cost? What¡¯s an average wage and what does a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs cost? Or even better, a pound of aluminum and what does anodizing cost? Those are my biggest expenses. This is out of my own curiosity¡.
Recently I decided to build a MFT with track hinge and fence.? Why build and not just purchase? Well, I was not sure if I would find a MFT useful for sawing (although I could see the value as an assembly table, and for hold work for routing and sanding). Plus the Festool MFT locally cost $1600 AUD ($800 USD in the USA), which was a lot to satisfy my curiosity.? In addition, reading the other FOG (Festool Owners Group), the Festool hinge system (for the rail on the MFT) had come in for quite a bit of criticism, and the preferred aftermarket hinges came from Benchdogs and Dashboard. The Benchdogs hinge is??190?from the UK ($340 AUD), and the Dashboard is $290 USD (or $430 AUD) before shipping costs are added in. The Benchdogs fence was another??90 ($160 AUD).?
So it came down to $1600 from Festool Australia vs around $800 from Benchdogs for the hinge and fence, and still need a MFT table top. These are all at least twice the cost of comparable items in the USA. I would add that the cost of living in Australia is than the USA, and so the 100% higher cost of tools indicates how much ground we have to make up. Further, average income in Australia ($57K USD p.a.) is about 25% lower than in the USA ($71K USD p.a.).??
I decided to build my own. Total costs: $50 for materials from a woodworking friend with CNC to make a template to rout the holes for a MFT top. And then around $90 for 6mm aluminium sheets to machine a hinge (using basic woodworking tools, such as a bandsaw, router and drill).?
Was it worth the effort? Was this false economy?
1200mm x 600mm MFT table (plus 300mm extension) ...
The Hinge
Front ...
?
Rear (before added spacer) ...
After added spacer ...
?
?
?
Detail of fence ...
Dimensions for all are on my website:??
Bottom line for me, Brian - I will happily purchase tools if they are affordable. In Oz they are priced excessively, and the current economic climate is not looking good, and getting worse. I am fortunate that I can afford most things, but that does not mean that I am willing to lash out. I am also fortunate that I have a go-for-it attitude, and will then just build what I want. These then get passed on to others, hopefully to benefit from my efforts.
Regards from Perth
Derek
|
Re: Parallel Guide for Hammer K3 mk3
Brian, I did not say shipping adds 50% I said that by the time it was landed in Oz I GUESSED it might be 50% more expensive than what the retail cost is in the US and the 50% was me taking a wild guess based on my importing experience. Derek has missed one large hidden cost, when an item is imported here it cops a 10% import tax which is based on the buying price in AUD plus all shipping? and handling costs as well. If an item costs $2000 AUD landed it will incur a further $200 to release it from customs. Our region is served by Asian imports first and the ROW second.?
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
You are very kind, Jonathan.
I think that this forum is more about machines and related fixtures than about furniture making ... unless we can demonstrate joinery skills with our machines? That would be helpful for all, I imagine.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Buying vs building tools - the rationale for creating a MFT Table
Derek. Love seeing your home made jigs.
Personally I get far more satisfaction in designing and making a jig than buying one.
Also wish we could see more of your woodworking?skills on here, you are truly a master craftsman! Kindest regards
Jonathan Samways
Brian asked:?
My question for you on currency rates is how does the Australian dollar hold against Australian product? Wages vs. cost? What¡¯s an average wage and what does a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs cost? Or even better, a pound of aluminum and what does anodizing cost? Those are my biggest expenses. This is out of my own curiosity¡.
Recently I decided to build a MFT with track hinge and fence.? Why build and not just purchase? Well, I was not sure if I would find a MFT useful for sawing (although I could see the value as an assembly table, and for hold work for routing and sanding). Plus the Festool MFT locally cost $1600 AUD ($800 USD in the USA), which was a lot to satisfy my curiosity.? In addition, reading the other FOG (Festool Owners Group), the Festool hinge system (for the rail on the MFT) had come in for quite a bit of criticism, and the preferred aftermarket hinges came from Benchdogs and Dashboard. The Benchdogs hinge is??190?from the UK ($340 AUD), and the Dashboard is $290 USD (or $430 AUD) before shipping costs are added in. The Benchdogs fence was another??90 ($160 AUD).?
So it came down to $1600 from Festool Australia vs around $800 from Benchdogs for the hinge and fence, and still need a MFT table top. These are all at least twice the cost of comparable items in the USA. I would add that the cost of living in Australia is than the USA, and so the 100% higher cost of tools indicates how much ground we have to make up. Further, average income in Australia ($57K USD p.a.) is about 25% lower than in the USA ($71K USD p.a.).??
I decided to build my own. Total costs: $50 for materials from a woodworking friend with CNC to make a template to rout the holes for a MFT top. And then around $90 for 6mm aluminium sheets to machine a hinge (using basic woodworking tools, such as a bandsaw, router and drill).?
Was it worth the effort? Was this false economy?
1200mm x 600mm MFT table (plus 300mm extension) ...
The Hinge
Front ...
?
Rear (before added spacer) ...
After added spacer ...
?
?
?
Detail of fence ...
Dimensions for all are on my website:??
Bottom line for me, Brian - I will happily purchase tools if they are affordable. In Oz they are priced excessively, and the current economic climate is not looking good, and getting worse. I am fortunate that I can afford most things, but that does not mean that I am willing to lash out. I am also fortunate that I have a go-for-it attitude, and will then just build what I want. These then get passed on to others, hopefully to benefit from my efforts.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Festool Clamp Adapter K940
I've used this timber design for many?years. I made a few lengths out of scrap and modify them as needed. Last week I added a threaded metal insert to aid fixing jigs to the slider. Kindest regards
Jonathan Samways
On Sun, 5 Mar 2023, 8:49 am Bill Belanger, < Bill@...> wrote: Yup, going into the store.
Printed and tested. Works great.
Bill
On Sun, Mar 5, 2023 at 12:02?AM David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote: That¡¯s a nice design Mike.? Maybe Bill Belanger could add this to his Etsy offerings.? The STL file is here:
For those who don¡¯t remember, it looks like this:
Posted this solution a couple years back under 3D printing and x-roll. Search for that and the string should show up along with the files in the download section. My design captured the clamps fully ensuring they remain upright and can slide freely without marring the extrusions. These work quite well and remained in the saw even after procuring Macs clamps.? Made one for the more square miter extrusion also to expand clamping options.
--
Mike B
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Tom Gensmer
Bon May
