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Hi group,
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I tried asking Keysight support for possibility to repair or buy spare parts for a HP E4413A 26.5 GHz power sensor and giving the serial number and my full name.
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The sensor works fine, but the 3.5mm connector is suspect.
Both the center pin and the ground connection can easily be rotated.
Not sure this is a standard feature or potential problem so I asked support.
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However, I seem to end up at a AI-generated door guard asking me to register whatever reply I give.
I don't find it very meaningful to start registering before I even know if I have a problem or not.
At first I think I got in contact with the US support, but after few unfruitful trials they sent me to the Finnish representative repeating the :
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Our support team forwarded your inquiry to the contact center in Finland.
Kindly note that Keysight products are designed, manufactured and tested for professional and industrial use. They are not designed or tested for use by Consumers and therefore we are not able to supply them or provide service for them in case you are a private individual.
In case you work for a company, kindly provide us the company name and address as well as your company email address and we can continue working with your inquiry.
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Yes, I'm a retired professional with long experience dealing with/buying from HP and Agilent, and with my own quite inactive design company, but how to ask a fair question without filling my "shoe-number" first?
I value privacy and respect.
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Anyone with ideas about one (the sensor) or the other (bypass the policy-barrier)?
I'm happy to give the details Keysight ask for once I get in contact with a real and friendly person.
Obviously the sensor is more interesting now, but I have one other Agilent component to ask about.
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Thanks!
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<clip>
Our support team forwarded your inquiry to the contact center in Finland.
Kindly note that Keysight products are designed, manufactured and tested for professional and industrial use. They are not designed or tested for use by Consumers and therefore we are not able to supply them or provide service for them in case you are a private individual.
In case you work for a company, kindly provide us the company name and address as well as your company email address and we can continue working with your inquiry.
<clip>
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Anyone with ideas about one (the sensor) or the other (bypass the policy-barrier)?
I'm happy to give the details Keysight ask for once I get in contact with a real and friendly person.
Obviously the sensor is more interesting now, but I have one other Agilent component to ask about.
You work as a freelance consultant. It might help to have a web page you can point them to.
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Hello Bo,
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I think you are confronting two non-technical problems, in addition to the technical one regarding the connector.
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My guess is that Keysight is trying to deal with regulations regarding EU right to repair law(s) as they apply to consumers. They do this by limiting themselves to business-to-business (B2B) transactions only.
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The other problem is that Keysight is going the way of most other companies in treating employees and customers as ¡°resources¡±. In other words, while they still make some excellent products, things are not as they used to be. I don¡¯t see them reverting to the old days. The company is now much more of a pressure cooker. The current CEO has a sales background, so you can expect him to ¡°monetize¡± everything he can think of. You may be fighting an uphill battle dealing with the system, so consider tightening the connector by yourself.
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As to the technical problem, it sounds like you may need to open the plastic case and tighten the connector where it meets the main body. I don¡¯t have an E4413A. However the plastic housing looks similar in design to older sensors, which can be pried open for repair without destroying the plastic. It is difficult to do this without leaving some prying marks in the plastic, but it can be done if you pick the perfect srewdriver. Once you remove the plastic shell, there should be two flats on the connector body for a wrench. I don't think there is a need to open the metal housing, but I have never worked on an E4413A. That¡¯s my guess as to what needs to done. Maybe there is a picture somewhere on the web showing the sensor without the plastic housing.
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To see how the plastic housing can be opened, download the manual for a 8481 or 8482 sensor. The older manuals contain the instructions. Do not remove the two labels on the side of the plastic housing, there is no need to do that. If you have some questions, send me an email.
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Alternatively, submit your inquiry to Keysight via a business address.
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Vladan
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Thanks!
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No, I don't have a web page yet, only an empty domain. I'm afraid I may get work if I set it up ;-)
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The sensor:
Yes, that was my first thought. DIY. Try to find a donor or see if it can be fixed one way or the other.
However, as it's working, I'm reluctant to do "advanced surgery".
What you suggest sounds not too bad, so I will try. I'm not afraid of screw driver marks or residue.
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The question to Keysight was to get an idea what it might cost to fix it the official way. Sometimes it can really be worth it, but I feel not too welcome.
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It sounds very plausible what you describe, and much in line with my own experience with few exceptions.
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If you are *not* a large corporate client you can pretty much give up on it.? A fairly long discussion was here:
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While keysight no doubt has what, to them, are valid reasons to completely abandon and non corporate customer I personally feel that this is quite short sighted of them especially considering that there are many. many alternatives that have equal if not better performance - with excellent customer service for *all* buyers and all at a fraction of the cost.? Even in the corporate world, the smaller entities seem to be increasingly marginalized over the larger clients.? In the above post I believe that I mentioned someone who was very much ignored by Keysight over multiple occasions when trying to work out an issue with a piece of equipment that they bought for their personal use; unfortunately for Keysight, they also happened to be very influential with the equipment requirements for a rather large project and Keysight was dropped in favor of other vendors.? To the best of my knowledge that has, to date, cost Keysight well into the 8 figures.? For a company as large as Keysight that might not exactly be a case of shooting yourself in the foot but it should at least count as dropping a hammer on your toe.
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While I absolutely love restoring and using my vintage HP equipment, all my new stuff is from Keithley, Tektronix, Siglent and so forth and I couldn't be happier or more satisfied with it's performance.
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Hal
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Back when they were still Agilent, I bought a loaded E4404b Spectrum analyzer Around $50 US. No problem. A few years later I needed to replace
the Dallas battery/memory chip. I ordered one from their website. Thinking 'no problem' since it took my credit card. Nope, a week later I get an email
saying they won't sell to me unless my email domain matches a company name with the same domain. No gmail. After a couple of back and forths, I
ordered it from Digikey (less money even). Still they send me a few emails each week trying to sell me new equipment. Go figure.
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Russ
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On September 3, 2024 5:45:47 PM "Russ Whale WA7MLW" <rwhale9@...> wrote: Back when they were still Agilent, I bought a loaded E4404b Spectrum analyzer Around $50 US. No problem. A few years later I needed to replace
the Dallas battery/memory chip. I ordered one from their website. Thinking 'no problem' since it took my credit card. Nope, a week later I get an email
saying they won't sell to me unless my email domain matches a company name with the same domain. No gmail. After a couple of back and forths, I
ordered it from Digikey (less money even). Still they send me a few emails each week trying to sell me new equipment. Go figure. Suits. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Ha, with each name change they deviate further from Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard - so sad to see.
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I too encountered a similar situation when trying to obtain parts for a 3458A DMM.
I have a home based business and they actually looked me up on Google satellite map, and "hey, this is a house".
I eventually did provide a business website and business based domain name email.
That seemed to loosen some parts out of them.?
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"That seemed to loosen some parts out of them"
The stick?.... ;)
Radu.?
Ha, with each name change they deviate further from Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard - so sad to see.
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I too encountered a similar situation when trying to obtain parts for a 3458A DMM.
I have a home based business and they actually looked me up on Google satellite map, and "hey, this is a house".
I eventually did provide a business website and business based domain name email.
.?
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Yes, unfortunately Keysight << Agilent << HP.? ? ? ?Jim Ford, Laguna Hills, California, USA?
On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 5:29 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...> wrote: "That seemed to loosen some parts out of them"
The stick?.... ;)
Radu.? Ha, with each name change they deviate further from Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard - so sad to see.
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I too encountered a similar situation when trying to obtain parts for a 3458A DMM.
I have a home based business and they actually looked me up on Google satellite map, and "hey, this is a house".
I eventually did provide a business website and business based domain name email.
.?
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Yeah, the "HP Way" is long gone it seems.
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Funny enough this is still on the HP website it seems: https://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1977_07.pdf
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Oops $50k US not $50.
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Russ
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I got exactly the same runaround with my HP3852, from HP Finland,? so I asked in the Agilent/Keysignt groups and someone at Keysight even found me an upgrade ROM pack and sent it free of charge. I suggest you try the forums as there seems to be at least some old HP employees lurking there.
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It was, as I said free of charge, but I did send them a gift in return.
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Yeah, the "HP Way" is long gone it seems.
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Funny enough this is still on the HP website it seems:
Princess Fiorina explicitly ended the HP Way, and replaced it with the incomprehensible "Rules of the Garage".? Everybody felt it was like a (female) dog moving in and marking its territory. I decided to start looking for employment elsewhere.
Having said that, there's an argument that the many "Bill and Dave" anecdotes were as effective at promulgating the concepts as any dry rules.?
Apart from that, it is good to see companies keeping historical documents available for all to see.
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If you are *not* a large corporate client you can pretty much give up on it.? A fairly long discussion was here:
?
?
While keysight no doubt has what, to them, are valid reasons to completely abandon and non corporate customer I personally feel that this is quite short sighted of them especially considering that there are many. many alternatives that have equal if not better performance - with excellent customer service for *all* buyers and all at a fraction of the cost.?
Hal
? You do not need to be a large corporate buyer to deal with Keysight. My limited liability company is not large - I am the only director and currently the only employee. But the company has had none of these sorts of problems dealing with Keysight, despite individuals in the UK having problems. I believe in the UK at least, Keysight will deal with any limited liability company, as it's clearly a business to business transaction.?
I suspect if one sets up a webpage as Fred Blogs Consultancy, Keysight will deal with you. However, it does look a bit unprofessional if you have a hotmail/gmail email address, so that might raise a few eyebrows. That said, my old vet
still uses an email. (For what it's worth, I had no problems with the vet, but a new veterinary surgery moved just across the road from me, so I thought it prudent to change vets, as a local vet would be better in an emergency.)
Dr. David Kirkby Director, Kirkby Microwave Ltd.
-- Dr David Kirkby Ph.D Kirkby Microwave Ltd Email: drkirkby@... Web: Telephone 07910 441670 (UK) or +44 7910 441670 (international) Registered in England and Wales, company number 08914892.? Registered office: Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Essex, CM3 6DT
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While "right to repair" may be part of it, the bigger issue with selling to "consumers" is thet many HPAK products are safety and or EMC certified to professional / idustrial standards so the lawers are technically correct in saying they can't sell those to consumers and it's easier to do a blanket ban. They should have an avenue for professional individuals. Arguably, in the UK at least licenced radio amateurs are "competent" to use such items from a EMI point at least.
Interestingly in the UK Raspberry Pi limited terms and conditions clearly state that they are B2B only. However they sell to anyone and have a retail shop in Cambridge. I asked in the shop and they said the T&C on the website were the only ones.
Keysight have lost my business personally (not much :-) ) but I have also moved any work purchases awayfrom them. In both cases R&S is the main alternative.
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Robert.
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While "right to repair" may be part of it, the bigger issue with selling to "consumers" is thet many HPAK products are safety and or EMC certified to professional / idustrial standards so the lawers are technically correct in saying they can't sell those to consumers and it's easier to do a blanket ban. They should have an avenue for professional individuals. Arguably, in the UK at least licenced radio amateurs are "competent" to use such items from a EMI point at least.
Interestingly in the UK Raspberry Pi limited terms and conditions clearly state that they are B2B only. However they sell to anyone and have a retail shop in Cambridge. I asked in the shop and they said the T&C on the website were the only ones.
Keysight have lost my business personally (not much :-) ) but I have also moved any work purchases awayfrom them. In both cases R&S is the main alternative.
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Robert.
I wonder where UK Raspberry Pi Ltd would stand if a consumer took them to court.?UK Raspberry Pi Ltd are clearly doing this B2B thing to escape consumer regulations, and blatantly doing that sort of thing could get them into problems. With Keysight it's clearly very different, as the products are aimed at a professional market and Keysight are actively stopping dealing with consumers. But Raspberry Pi's are used extensively in schools, and as you say,?UK Raspberry Pi Ltd will sell to anyone.
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'Princess Fiorina' was a Ferengi!
Yeah, the "HP Way" is long gone it seems.
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Funny enough this is still on the HP website it seems:
Princess Fiorina explicitly ended the HP Way, and replaced it with the incomprehensible "Rules of the Garage".? Everybody felt it was like a (female) dog moving in and marking its territory. I decided to start looking for employment elsewhere.
Having said that, there's an argument that the many "Bill and Dave" anecdotes were as effective at promulgating the concepts as any dry rules.?
Apart from that, it is good to see companies keeping historical documents available for all to see.
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A few companies here in the states have balked at my personal gmail.? Some are fine after giving them one of my various company emails where I work or consult and then they go back to using my personal email when I respond faster there.? A couple companies over the years insist on only using a company email and I've lost touch with them as I've worked with a number of startups which have disappeared along with their emails.
Stupid policies may have stupid results.? Very, very few companies have products so unique there aren't alternatives.
Peter
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On 9/4/2024 4:14 AM, Robert G8RPI via groups.io wrote: While "right to repair" may be part of it, the bigger issue with selling to "consumers" is thet many HPAK products are safety and or EMC certified to professional / idustrial standards so the lawers are technically correct in saying they can't sell those to consumers and it's easier to do a blanket ban. They should have an avenue for professional individuals. Arguably, in the UK at least licenced radio amateurs are "competent" to use such items from a EMI point at least.
Interestingly in the UK Raspberry Pi limited terms and conditions clearly state that they are B2B only. However they sell to anyone and have a retail shop in Cambridge. I asked in the shop and they said the T&C on the website were the only ones.
Keysight have lost my business personally (not much :-) ) but I have also moved any work purchases awayfrom them. In both cases R&S is the main alternative.
Robert.
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Keysight will repair the E44xx series of sensors but at a very high cost. I had one repaired in February at a cost of ?1560 inc VAT with a 90 warranty.? Still cheaper than an unknown on eBay but painful. They only deal with me because I set up a company? just to get a few DMMs calibrated. A job they had been happily doing for years until the change of policy.?
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Phil
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Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd
Harold Foster
Dave McGuire
Nik Milosevic
Anders
Michael A. Terrell