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Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands
Tom,
PH Pro and PowerHouse Pro are just a slight name change that happened along
the years. Key difference is it is a big black box with a serial 9 pin port
and not something you use the NCE USB interface to connect. It uses a normal
serial interface to the computer. That version is totally different
internally (memory) from the PowerCab, SB5, Twin type systems. These last
ones are the ones that didn't track the turnout requests like the big box
did.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands
Dave,
I¡¯m not sure from your note as to where Monitoring is done, JMRI or NCE.
I saw this in the link you provided: MONITORINGDefault for LocoNet and XPressNet turnouts, this means the network is monitored for messages about the status of the turnout. This mode is only available for certain protocols, i.e. some protocols can't do the monitoring properly, and don't have this choice.?
If selected for the NCE Powerhouse Pro (only), it will monitor the last known state change of this turnout made by the command station (on request from a cab, macro, JMRI or Mini Panel).
My DCC command station is the NCE PH Pro 5 amp system not the NCE Powerhouse Pro, so does that mean I don¡¯t have the?capability to monitor the turnouts thrown from the Hammerhead throttle?
I just looked through my NCE Owners Manual and did not find anything about Monitoring.
Thomas Cain Indianapolis, IN Modeling the Eastern Illinois Santa Fe from the Prototype See my?NEW?website and layout at: ?
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On Sep 16, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Dave Heap < dgheap@...> wrote:
Thomas,On 17 Sep 2019, at 4:15 AM, Tom Cain <atsf93@...> wrote:
I have a JMRI Panel set up to control the layout and monitor occupancy via locoNet. ?If I click on a turnout on my computer to throw a switch, the position on the panel is always consistent with the turnout. ?My DCC system is NCE, and stationary decoders for tortoise machines are NCE SwitchIt and Switch8 decoders. ?If someone using their throttle throws a switch or if they use a layout/fascia push button to change the orientation of the switch it does not show the change on the panel. ?Is there a way to manage this other than adding AIU boards for feedback?
If you have an NCE Power Pro system, you can set Turnout Feedback Mode to MONITORING and your JMRI panel will be updated by NCE throttle or Mini Panel commands.
Unfortunately the NCE Power Pro and hence JMRI cannot directly monitor local pushbuttons connected directly to DCC accessory decoders. For that case, You need to use the Tortoise contacts and an AIU.
<>
Dave in Australia
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
Dave,
Part of the problem is that different people use the term GND
differently. In this case we mean the common return for whatever
switches or detectors are being monitored by the AIU. We do NOT
mean earth ground nor even some master power supply ground. The
AIU itself has a terminal labeled GND. That is the place that any
switches or detectors should to be referenced to, and no other.
Where the AIU gets its power makes no difference.
You can get by sometimes with connecting the switch commons to
other places, (also probably labeled GND and even connected
together) but sooner or later you will have mysterious issues with
no logical explanations.
It may seem neater to use a single ground connection to every
switch on a panel, or every Tortoise in a yard, or every ....
whatever, but electrically that is not usually the best option.
The 'Loop' we are talking about is the loop of wire starting at
the input board (e.g. some AIU) going out to a contact and then
returning to the same input board as the sensed line. That 'loop'
or circuit should not include (as in surround, or go around, or be
common with) any other wiring. (especially any track feeders or AC
power)
In sensitive situations this means that every signal should be
fed by its own pair of wires. In the case of an AIU or similar
input board using a single common line for all 7 (or 14) sensors
is not likely to cause issues as long as they run along the same
path or in the same cable because it has internal noise
suppression and some hysteresis.
Dick :)
On 9/16/2019 8:48 PM, Video7105 wrote:
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Thank Dave for the link and further advise. ?The GND in question
has no relationship to the layout, since it¡¯s powered by a wall
wart only.?
Maybe my designation of Assy. Bus is what may be confusing.
?I have a yellow and white running around the layout, that is
powered by the wall wart only and has no connection to the DCC
System.?
My GND¡¯s to my BD20/AIU/Ext. Power for Switch8 MK2 panels,
comes from the negative side of the wall wart.?
It seems am having a problem understanding where the AIU GND
should come from to start with, if not like like I have it.?
The positive side of the wall wart goes to my + connection on
the BD20¡¯s, in case I even decide to use it and the + side on
the external power supply for the Switch8 MK2. No positive goes
to the AIU, from the wall wart
If wrong, I have way to much invested in burning equipment
up.?
Where is the suggested GND, for these panels, suggested to be
obtain?
Thanks
Dave
In PA
Sent from iPhone Xs Max
On Sep 16, 2019, at 17:49, Dave Heap < dgheap@...>
wrote:
Since the switches inside the
tortoise are isolated, where is the GND Loop supposively
happening at?
The three wires connected to pins 5, 6 & 7 need to
go directly to the AIU GND terminal and two input pins of
the AIU. They should be routed close together and
preferably lightly twisted together.
The GND connection between pin 5 and the AIU GND
terminal must not be made via any bus ground. Multiple
Tortoises position switches must not use a shared ground
back to the AIU GND.
To do otherwise invites false triggering of the AIU
inputs.
The email from Dick Bronson (principal of RRCirKits) is
here:
Dave in Australia
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
Dave in PA,
Yes I saw your other comment about 'where the gnd comes from'. For the AIU
with respect to the Tortoise, it is the first pin of the connector with the
other 7 inputs. While the gnd on both connectors are likely connected
internally, I would make the effort to keep the pins used stay with their
side of the AIU. More for consistency sake but following those sorts of
ideas is safest without knowing all the internal details of a board. I
follow that logic with all nodes of many types.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
Thanks Dave for chiming in. ?The AIU board Gnd is connected to the Separate Accy Power Bus, on the ?¡°-¡° side of the power supply. So am attaching Pin 5 also to the same Gnd on the Accy Power Bus, which is also the AIU Gnd. For each Tortoise, both of those connections must be removed and replaced by a separate (otherwise unconnected) direct wire going between pin 5 and the single relevant AIU GND.
Dave in Australia
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
It seems am having a problem understanding where the AIU GND should come from to start with, if not like like I have it.?
The positive side of the wall wart goes to my + connection on the BD20¡¯s, in case I even decide to use it and the + side on the external power supply for the Switch8 MK2. No positive goes to the AIU, from the wall wart
If wrong, I have way to much invested in burning equipment up.?
Where is the suggested GND, for these panels, suggested to be obtain?
The AIU GND is connected to the NCE Cab Bus ground and hence to the case of the Power Pro.
No connection is to be made between the AIU GND pins and anything else except the ground returns of all sensors going to AIU pins.
All sensor ground returns must return directly to the AIU GND pins of the AIU that particular sensor is connected to.
In your diagram, that means that Tortoise pin 5 must be connected directly to the GND terminal of the AIU that pins 6 & 7 are connected to. No other connection is to be made to pin 5 of the Tortoise, or to the AIU GND (except pin 5 of other Tortoises).
No connection is to be made between your ACCY bus GND and any pin of the Tortoise or the AIU.
Your external ACCY power DC supply GND is to go to the sleeve of the coaxial DC socket on each Switch-8 Mk2. Your external ACCY power positive DC supply is to go to the tip of the coaxial DC socket on each Switch-8 Mk2. Your external ACCY power DC supply must not in any way connect to any other NCE product except the DC sockets on each?each Switch-8 Mk2.
Dave in Australia
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Re: Release 4.17.4. Cell phone no longer controls trains
WOW. Thank you. I will try that tomorrow. That would be great. Thanks again.?
Frank in Houston?
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
Thanks Ken,
I thought that was what I was doing. But maybe I muddied water with the wrong term. AssyBus
Thanks
Dave
In PA
Sent from iPhone Xs Max
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On Sep 16, 2019, at 19:44, Ken Cameron <kcameron@...> wrote:
I think a good way to explain this is to insure the current that flows out
to the contacts on the Tortoise flows back to the same spot and takes the
same route. This is the best way to insure things like noise has the best
chance to cancel itself.
Now if the gnd at the AIU is internally part of the board is also tied to a
more system wide common should not change this. You want the current to
follow the same paths within a circuit and not some detour. I think of it
more like a balancing condition, you don't borrow electrons from somewhere
else, you keep each board using only the ones that passed through it, not
another board.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
Thank Dave for the link and further advise. ?The GND in question has no relationship to the layout, since it¡¯s powered by a wall wart only.?
Maybe my designation of Assy. Bus is what may be confusing. ?I have a yellow and white running around the layout, that is powered by the wall wart only and has no connection to the DCC System.?
My GND¡¯s to my BD20/AIU/Ext. Power for Switch8 MK2 panels, comes from the negative side of the wall wart.?
It seems am having a problem understanding where the AIU GND should come from to start with, if not like like I have it.?
The positive side of the wall wart goes to my + connection on the BD20¡¯s, in case I even decide to use it and the + side on the external power supply for the Switch8 MK2. No positive goes to the AIU, from the wall wart
If wrong, I have way to much invested in burning equipment up.?
Where is the suggested GND, for these panels, suggested to be obtain?
Thanks Dave In PA Sent from iPhone Xs Max
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 16, 2019, at 17:49, Dave Heap < dgheap@...> wrote: Since the switches inside the tortoise are isolated, where is the GND Loop supposively happening at?
The three wires connected to pins 5, 6 & 7 need to go directly to the AIU GND terminal and two input pins of the AIU. They should be routed close together and preferably lightly twisted together.
The GND connection between pin 5 and the AIU GND terminal must not be made via any bus ground. Multiple Tortoises position switches must not use a shared ground back to the AIU GND.
To do otherwise invites false triggering of the AIU inputs.
The email from Dick Bronson (principal of RRCirKits) is here:
Dave in Australia
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On 9/16/2019 6:20 AM, Frank Rich via
Groups.Io wrote:
Hello All
I have learned that I cannot program any engines w/ JMRI on my
program track.? JMRI works fine when I program on the main.
I believe my PS14 power supply (with a Power Pax) is to low
Can someone suggest an 18volt power supply to try?
Thank You
Frank
This is the 18v P/S I got for my PR3.? With it I could
program everything but a BLI Paragon 2 N-Scale PRR M1a/b.? I had
to go to a SPROG 3 for that.? I could program ESU, Digitras,
Lenz, NCE, TCS and Soundtraxx Sound Value Decoders (Bachmann).?
I did have a Soundtraxx Tsunami or other decoders.? Nor a QSI or
MRC.
Specifics:
Input Voltage: AC 100-240V (Worldwide AC Input)
Input Frequency: 50-60Hz
Input Connecter Standard: 2 Pin US Plug
Output Voltage: DC 18V 1A
Connecter Size: 5.5*2.5mm As the pictures shown
Cable Length: 4ft
Color: Black
--
John H. Reinhardt
PRRT&HS #8909
C&O HS #11530
N-Trak #7566
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TSU-PNP GE will not communicate with SPROG3
I just finished installing a TSU-PNP GE, and have run across a strange problem.? When I try to add a new loco in DecoderPro, it fails to correctly identify the decoder.? If I manually select the correct decoder from the list, I cannot read or write any CVs to the decoder.? As soon as I try to read CVs, the startup sound starts playing from the decoder, and I continually get "no locomotive detected (301)".? Has anyone else run across this?
I did just get a new computer, but I do not believe that to be the issue, as I have been able to identify and read a TSU-2200 Alco, and a TCS WOWSound steam.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Shawn
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
I think a good way to explain this is to insure the current that flows out
to the contacts on the Tortoise flows back to the same spot and takes the
same route. This is the best way to insure things like noise has the best
chance to cancel itself.
Now if the gnd at the AIU is internally part of the board is also tied to a
more system wide common should not change this. You want the current to
follow the same paths within a circuit and not some detour. I think of it
more like a balancing condition, you don't borrow electrons from somewhere
else, you keep each board using only the ones that passed through it, not
another board.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Re: MRC Prodigy Advance Error
Bob,
Thank you for the help.
Please let me know when to download the new JMRI.
Ken
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I'll chip in with my PowerPax history. I came before the PTB-100 was
available, maybe before the PR3 too. But it came with an 18V supply. I've
been using it successfully for at least 6 years now, maybe more. Right now,
only the new Tsunami 2's need me to bypass the PowerPax. That's running with
a DCS200 and I think that's about when I got the PowerPax was when the
DCS200 came out.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Hi there, I have had similar problems with my PR4. Can anyone suggest the best product to use as the power supply and the PS14 jack on the PR4?
Or alternatively an adaptor between standard chargers and the jack on the PR4?
Regards Alex
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Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands
Thomas,On 17 Sep 2019, at 4:15 AM, Tom Cain <atsf93@...> wrote:
I have a JMRI Panel set up to control the layout and monitor occupancy via locoNet. ?If I click on a turnout on my computer to throw a switch, the position on the panel is always consistent with the turnout. ?My DCC system is NCE, and stationary decoders for tortoise machines are NCE SwitchIt and Switch8 decoders. ?If someone using their throttle throws a switch or if they use a layout/fascia push button to change the orientation of the switch it does not show the change on the panel. ?Is there a way to manage this other than adding AIU boards for feedback?
If you have an NCE Power Pro system, you can set Turnout Feedback Mode to MONITORING and your JMRI panel will be updated by NCE throttle or Mini Panel commands.
Unfortunately the NCE Power Pro and hence JMRI cannot directly monitor local pushbuttons connected directly to DCC accessory decoders. For that case, You need to use the Tortoise contacts and an AIU.
<>
Dave in Australia
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Thomas, On 17 Sep 2019, at 3:45 AM, Tom Cain <atsf93@...> wrote:
My DCC command station is the NCE PH Pro 5 amp system. I purchased a Power Pax to program the newer sound decoders and it seemed to do the job for a while, but eventually I put it away and purchased the Soundtraxx PTB-100 and it works just fine. Buying the Power Pax which was a little cheaper was my way of hoping to save a little money but that did not work out. My experience with the NCE Power Pro, PowerPax and PTB-100 was similar. The PowerPax did not work as well as the PTB-100 with my Power Pro. Dave in Australia
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Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories
Since the switches inside the tortoise are isolated, where is the GND Loop supposively happening at?
The three wires connected to pins 5, 6 & 7 need to go directly to the AIU GND terminal and two input pins of the AIU. They should be routed close together and preferably lightly twisted together.
The GND connection between pin 5 and the AIU GND terminal must not be made via any bus ground. Multiple Tortoises position switches must not use a shared ground back to the AIU GND.
To do otherwise invites false triggering of the AIU inputs.
The email from Dick Bronson (principal of RRCirKits) is here:
Dave in Australia
|
Hi P?r, I have uploaded a script example that will hopefully be helpful. /g/jmriusers/files/VSD/SensorListener.pyYou have to open the LocoNet Monitor to see the transponding messages. Open the sensor table (Tools >> Tables >> Sensors) and click on an sensor state. Regards Klaus Am 16.09.2019 um 12:23 schrieb P?r Ekstrand:
Hi,
I am using JMRI for a shelf layout I have. I run my trains using scrips and
I am using decoders, sensors etc from a Swedish company? mollehem.se
My layout is N-scale and I would like to use VSD for the loco sounds.
I am trying to figure out what LocoNet messages to send in my scripts
to mimic the messages sent by the Digitrax Transponding system to
report loco possitions.
Since I only run my trains with scripts I thought that I could put in LocoNet
messages in the scripts that will tell the position of the trains to VSD when
I get a message from the corresponding sensor that the train is located there.
Is there someone that could help with the how a LOcoNet message like that should look like ?
Best Regards
P?r Ekstrand
Stockholm
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Re: Release 4.17.4. Cell phone no longer controls trains
Frank:
The suggested solution to the Android change is to operate in Airplane mode. This turns the phone system radio off so we're not trying to connect to the net over that network.
Jim Albanowski
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Ken Cameron