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In , or the files area>ProblemsBeingWorkedOm>WaltsStuff>SE8C is a panel file that shows how to do this.
Walt

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the jmriusers
group.


File : /ProblemsBeingWorkedOn/WaltsStuff/SE8C_TEST.xml
Uploaded by : walter71342 <walter.stanley.thompson.3@...>
Description : panel file using SE8C's Flash Yellow with the correct display on the panel using virtual Heads.


You can access this file at the URL:



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:



Regards,


walter71342 <walter.stanley.thompson.3@...>

OK, now I get it. Thanks.

Ken

Ken:



I'm still working on the panels. They work after a fashion. I was doing
some searches on "no neighbor error, because that and delay timer errors are
pouring into the logs. I came across a script that I believe you wrote.
DebounceSensor.py, I think that may help clean up some of the issues. Do
you have a howto sheet for that?



I also discovered that the BD20's I have are a new version BD20a all of
NCE's documents talk about desensitizing the detectors, I think I'm having
the opposite problem. That might be part of the issue. I'm going to get on
the phone with NCE tomorrow about this, I need to order some more stuff from
them anyway. The AIU definitely didn't work with the PowerCab it's been
better since I switched to the SB5 System in JMRI preferences. I also
have a mini panel from NCE to try out, that may be more viable than the AIU.



Switching to Linux, is there any particular reason you wanted to hide the
users files? The default directory being hidden missed being seen. Since a
lot of clubs use this software it may be prudent to fork a database driven
version, the missing backup files and the occasional exit before saving
seems endemic. Performance could be improved too. J I may take a pass at
the database this summer. This is all GPL?



Thanks for the help.



Doug:



This isn't real electronics and I have a test light. J To do anything
really useful I'd need an oscilloscope to figure out why the decoders have
selective hearing sometimes.



Gotta get to my Ops Session today. Gonna play on this layout now:
with

at the San Diego Model Rail Road Museum. I love
steam era ops sessions.



Have a good day.



Martin Ozolins

<mailto:mdozolins@...> mdozolins@...

(760)405 4812



"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur



From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 04:13
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: RE: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection





Martin,

I would turn off the Logix for now while we figure out what is happening.

Now for each block is there a single feed wire going through the BD20 that
then goes to the block. All the current for that block must feed through the
BD20. Your symptom sounds as if there were other feed wires to the block so
only some of the current is passing through the BD20. The test for this is
disconnect the feed wire through the BD20 and see that the track block is
now dead. If not, current is getting there somehow.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org

I have seen posted on this list reference to XL files for a string-line diagram. Can somebody direct me to those files?

Thanks,

Dick Roberts

Yes you will need to install the correct mac drivers for your USB to serial device. Then you will need to go into the preferences file in JMRI and select the proper connection for the new device.

JIm

You may need to install a driver for your serial adapter on your new Mac.

Walk Sacred,
David Copson

inyostudio.com

Sent from my iPhone. Anything that doesn't make sense has been autocorrected.

Wait..You are trying to troubleshoot electronic devices with out a meter???

Come on now!!!!

Sent from me.
On Jun 7, 2014 8:22 PM, "Martin Ozolins mdozolins@... [jmriusers]" <
jmriusers@...> wrote:

David

They are BD20’s with a common ground using inputs 1-4. Four having the same
result doesn’t seem to be a hardware issue. I was trying to Reach NCE today
but they’re website is mostly down. I’m getting a flash on the LED’s on the
AIU that correspond with the JMRI sensor display. But only when the trains
cross the block gaps.

In case it could be a voltage issue (I don’t have a voltmeter handy.), I
swapped out one power lead from 18Ga to 22Ga wire and got a third loop
around the BD20’s coil. It had no impact on the issue. I think I’ll need
a software solution to the problem. Maybe using a memory variable when it
clicks on that resets when it clicks off.

Martin Ozolins
mdozolins@...

"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur

From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 17:05
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection


This doesnt seem to be a JMRI issue. The block detector will stay active as
long as
something that draws current (locos, conducting wheel sets, etc) is within
the block.
The detector output should remain "high" (voltage-wise) when there is no
block activity.
When the block becomes occupied, the detector output will go "low." You can
check
this with a volt meter. Are you using BD20's or DBD22's. Ive gotten both to
work well
with an AIU and JMRI.

David Richardson
Tucson

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Ozolins mdozolins@... [jmriusers]
<jmriusers@...>
To: jmriusers <jmriusers@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 7, 2014 5:32 pm
Subject: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection

Hi All

I just spent a couple of days going through Robert Bucklew's Quaker Valley
Lines Panel Pro tutorial (Very well done) parts one and two. After sticking
to the tutorial I paused at the end of Part 2 and figured I'd repeat part 1
and part 2 on a portion of my Living Room Layout. Then I ran into a block
detection issue, the block sensors seem to flash on when a train enters and
again when it exits, but isn't persistent so I've been unable to mark the
block occupied on the panel.

My Layout is NCE SB5, via the USB Interface, My sensors are BD20's
connected
to an AUI01. My firmware is of the proper version (7.3.3) and my sensors
are
being read from the AUI by JMRI. The JMRI is Version 3.6-r24520 running on
Centos 6.5 and Java 1.7 (60).

The USB interface is CAB 8

The AUI interface is CAB9 (per the SB5 Documentation)

The indications are that the sensors are triggering on entry and exit of a
block, each train passage the correct block transitions are lighting up. Is
this proper behavior for these devices? If yes how do I capture the entry
and exit of a train from each block? This will necessarily need to be
direction agnostic.

I've attached the Panel XML files as a zip archive so virus scanners won't
delete the XML and will be greatful for your advice.

Thanks in advance.

Martin Ozolins

mdozolins@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Martin,



I would turn off the Logix for now while we figure out what is happening.



Now for each block is there a single feed wire going through the BD20 that
then goes to the block. All the current for that block must feed through the
BD20. Your symptom sounds as if there were other feed wires to the block so
only some of the current is passing through the BD20. The test for this is
disconnect the feed wire through the BD20 and see that the track block is
now dead. If not, current is getting there somehow.



-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org

Dave



Generally speaking disabling aspects has a bad effect on the signal logic, for example disabling 'Approach Limited' will leave the logic with nothing to display when the next signal is showing 'Limited Clear' (red over flashing green), leaving the signal at danger as the only available alternative. The only time you should consider disabling aspects is when the list of available aspects in the signal mast table gets too long (CROR for example) when you manually control the aspects or only use LOGIXs to contol the signals, otherwise leave the logic to worry about what needs to be displayed.


The slow and limited indications should only show if there are track speed restrictions on the selected route, and this will typically happen by default when the selected route is going via the diverging route of a turnout. If you have a continuous run that makes for less than four signals in the circuit consider adding some intermediate virtual signals (with real detection blocks) so that the logic is able to work through more of the aspects.


I suspect that there is no simple answer to the SE8C flashing yellow conundrum. Setting the SE8C to do its own flashing yellow further restricts which aspects JMRI can display on the signal (no flashing red, flashing green or dark as well as no lunar) which would prevent many of the aspects from being displayed correctly.


Letting JMRI do the flashing should not be a huge problem on a small layout where in a worse case scenario only a quarter of the signal masts will display a flashing aspect, but if you have a lot of signals it would be better to use more modern signal mast decoders like the Signalist SC1 instead of the SE8C which support decoder controlled flashing on all of the aspects and just needs a single packet to set the whole mast when the aspect changes rather than the string of packets that the SE8C requires to set each head and further packets every time a lamp flashes.


Suzie x

I've just noticed that there were already existing decoder files for "Bachmann Sound Value" under this family name in the "Throttle-Up (SoundTraxx)" section.
Unfortunately these files have the same flaw as already mentioned a few weeks ago in this group regarding the function mapping of Tsunami. I have fixed all the Tsunami, but didn't notice this one.
I'm going to fix it and add all missing diesel models including SD70ACe (and GEVO).

Alain LM

Dave:
If tou up load you panel file to the ProblemsBeingWorkedOn folder in the files area of the group maybe somebody can look at it and figure out what went wrong.

Make sure you crate a folder with your name and let us know when its posted.

Walt

This track and wiring was freshly installed as a lab for this project. In any case, it seems the detection isn’t initiated by the sensor, the Command node is polling it multiple times a second and I think the (I guess I’d call them drivers) NCE system choices in preferences have been updated for the SB5, I was using the SB3 settings previously per NCE’s instructions. The SB5 choice is working now, we’ll see when I park a bunch of lit passenger coaches all over the layout.



Thnks



Martin Ozolins

<mailto:mdozolins@...> mdozolins@...





"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur



From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 23:31
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection





What if this is a hardware/wiring problem? I get the notion that you're convinced
this is a software problem. Perhaps. But you arent checking the output of
the BD20's just in case. Do they stay activated as long as the locos are in the detection block?
A cheap volt meter would give you some answers. You could also wire a LED to the
the BD20 output as explained in the BD20 User's Guide. That should stay lit when the
block is occupied.

David Richardson
Tucson

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Ozolins mdozolins@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...>
To: jmriusers <jmriusers@...>
Sent: Sat, Jun 7, 2014 7:22 pm
Subject: RE: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection

David

They are BD20’s with a common ground using inputs 1-4. Four having the same
result doesn’t seem to be a hardware issue. I was trying to Reach NCE today
but they’re website is mostly down. I’m getting a flash on the LED’s on the
AIU that correspond with the JMRI sensor display. But only when the trains
cross the block gaps.

In case it could be a voltage issue (I don’t have a voltmeter handy.), I
swapped out one power lead from 18Ga to 22Ga wire and got a third loop
around the BD20’s coil. It had no impact on the issue. I think I’ll need
a software solution to the problem. Maybe using a memory variable when it
clicks on that resets when it clicks off.

Martin Ozolins
mdozolins@...







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well here's a final update for today.



Tested in PowerCab only environment, couldn't communicate with the AIU at
all. Switched it back to the SB5. I had been using the SB3 selection in
preferences, someone at NCE told me to a while back. I noticed there is an
SB5 Choice on the system now, tried it and so far it appears the block
detection problem is history. I'll be testing it more thoroughly on Monday.
LMMRC is having an Ops Session today and Tomorrow so I'm heading to Balboa
Park.



Thanks for the help and have a good day.



Martin Ozolins

<mailto:mdozolins@...> mdozolins@...



"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur



From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 21:49
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: RE: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection





Nope. There are only 4 feeds to 4 blocks, with 4 BD20's and two turnouts.
Since this was a learning exercise I wanted to eliminate any extraneous
distractions. I'm going to run it with Just the PowerCab in a few minutes to
see if the SB5 is an issue, in which case I'll switch it to booster only
mode.

I'm also going to try my old ThinkPad that has XP on it to see if the 64Bit
Linux is confusing the hardware.

Martin Ozolins
mdozolins@...

"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur

-----Original Message-----
From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 21:11
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection

On Jun 7, 2014, at 6:22 PM, Martin Ozolins mdozolins@... [jmriusers]
<jmriusers@...> wrote:

They are BD20's with a common ground using inputs 1-4. Four having the
same result doesn't seem to be a hardware issue. I was trying to Reach
NCE today but they're website is mostly down. I'm getting a flash on
the LED's on the AIU that correspond with the JMRI sensor display. But
only when the trains cross the block gaps.

Any chance you have more than one feed to those track sections?

Try disconnecting the line from the BD20 to the track. If the the loco
still runs in the block, your wiring is providing more than one current path
to the block, hence the BD20 isn't seeing all the current.

Bob
--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

What if this is a hardware/wiring problem? I get the notion that you're convinced
this is a software problem. Perhaps. But you arent checking the output of
the BD20's just in case. Do they stay activated as long as the locos are in the detection block?
A cheap volt meter would give you some answers. You could also wire a LED to the
the BD20 output as explained in the BD20 User's Guide. That should stay lit when the
block is occupied.


David Richardson
Tucson

You might want to check your firewall and virus/intruder detection systems,
the sometimes with mess with non standard ports. If your wifi is "managed"
by your ISP they do some "optimizations" that will throttle streaming and
other high bandwidth applications. Ajax also has some security issues that
some vendors shun.



Martin Ozolins

<mailto:mdozolins@...> mdozolins@...



"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur



From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 21:38
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: RE: [jmriusers] Re: Engine Driver timeout problem





I thought wifi issues to be possible but unlikely because we didn't see the
same issue when using decoderpro. I'll check Steve's suggestion.

Nope. There are only 4 feeds to 4 blocks, with 4 BD20's and two turnouts.
Since this was a learning exercise I wanted to eliminate any extraneous
distractions. I'm going to run it with Just the PowerCab in a few minutes to
see if the SB5 is an issue, in which case I'll switch it to booster only
mode.

I'm also going to try my old ThinkPad that has XP on it to see if the 64Bit
Linux is confusing the hardware.

Martin Ozolins
mdozolins@...

"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur

I thought wifi issues to be possible but unlikely because we didn't see the same issue when using decoderpro. I'll check Steve's suggestion.

On Jun 7, 2014, at 6:22 PM, Martin Ozolins mdozolins@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...> wrote:

They are BD20’s with a common ground using inputs 1-4. Four having the same
result doesn’t seem to be a hardware issue. I was trying to Reach NCE today
but they’re website is mostly down. I’m getting a flash on the LED’s on the
AIU that correspond with the JMRI sensor display. But only when the trains
cross the block gaps.

Any chance you have more than one feed to those track sections?

Try disconnecting the line from the BD20 to the track. If the the loco still runs in the block, your wiring is providing more than one current path to the block, hence the BD20 isn't seeing all the current.

Bob
--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

I just did a test and the BD20/AIU are only triggering when a locomotive
crosses a block gap. I have the blocks fully isolated is that correct?



Martin Ozolins

<mailto:mdozolins@...> mdozolins@...



"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur



From: Martin Ozolins [mailto:mdozolins@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 20:39
To: 'jmriusers@...'
Subject: RE: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection



Thanks Ken.



When I watch the sensor table the sensor goes active for a few seconds then
inactive. I set the active track color to red and that goes on for a few
seconds then inactive. If I stop and Idle a locomotive on a block it still
goes inactive after the delay set sensor message.



The system is also sending an extremely large amount of status requests to
the AIU. Most are coming back 3FFF, until a sensor trip then the numbers
change.



Could my Logix Setup Be at fault, there don't seem to be many hardware
options on the AIU or the BD20's but the documentation for them is a bit
thin. J



Martin Ozolins

mdozolins@...



"Fortune favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur



From: jmriusers@... [mailto:jmriusers@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 19:27
To: jmriusers@...
Subject: RE: [jmriusers] JMRI - NCE Block Detection





Martin,

Yes there are two sensor messages, one for 'sensor on' and then when leaving
the block 'sensor off'. Now if you watch the sensor table you should see the
sensor stay on while the loco is in the block. And if your block has the
sensor listed it should also show the block on the panel. BUT the default
colors for 'active, inactive, alternate' in a block are all black. At least
it was, the default colors may have changed but unless you check and make
sure you have different colors, you won't see if on the panel.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org