John,
Is correct. ?The fence and hood not he Profile X-motion will not move back far enough to use small router bits.
With router bits the reference point for height will vary for profile bits.
Using a straight router bit offers few advantages over a straight shaper cutter, so profile bits are probably what you will need to set up and those would be referenced off the the start of the curve or something.?
As other shave pointed out there is not repeatability of set of the router bit in the collet on the Profile X-motion.
The desire for flexibility offered by the router spindle in the Profile X-motion shaper is tempered by the high cost. ?
I do use the router spindle on the my CF731 combo machine. ?I found repeatability to be a problem here, when I want to use a router bit I set it by eye then do a test cut adjust and go. ?
I don¡¯t think that Felder shapers other than the Profile X-motion suffer from the fence clearance issue. ?On the non-automated fences you can drill more holes in the shaper table to allow mounting the hood further back for more clearance. ?This is not possible with the X-motion hood and fence.
Joe in New Orleans
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Glen, you typically can't bury a router bit full depth in a collet so using a computer could be a problem. Plus there is a lot of variances from manufacturer's. I ?thought you had mentioned the Profile, you'll have to refer to David B. I ?use a F700Z and have modified the fence to go to the centerline of the router spindle, not sure if this possible for the Profile fence. There are a lot of affordable shaper cutters that basically eliminate the need for router bits in a shaper. I like most have spent the money and learned a lesson, the good thing about the F700Z is you don't have to take out mortgage to buy the spindles. Yum?
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Glen, you typically can't bury a router bit full depth in a collet so using a computer could be a problem. Plus there is a lot of variances from manufacturer's. I ?thought you had mentioned the Profile, you'll have to refer to David B. I ?use a F700Z and have modified the fence to go to the centerline of the router spindle, not sure if this possible for the Profile fence. There are a lot of affordable shaper cutters that basically eliminate the need for router bits in a shaper. I like most have spent the money and learned a lesson, the good thing about the F700Z is you don't have to take out mortgage to buy the spindles. Yum?
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-------- Original message -------- From: "GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2017-01-24 12:20 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Hi John
Ok this is something I did not think about. I am getting a Profil Z X motion. I am getting the understanding about setting the cutterheads and programing them in the data base but I really did not think about the spindle shaper. I figured if I just bottom out the router bit in the spindle I could program those as well. Now thinking about it not knowing what the chuck depth is that I might not be able to bottom out the bit which by my thinking make the tooling memory of the machine totally useless.
Am I on track here?
Glen
And I will never say it enough, thank you and all for my learning curve ?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 4:11 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Problem with using router bits in a shaper is the aggravation of setup. The truth is you could probably buy a dedicated router table setup for the price of the router spindle. This of course is if you have the room for another piece of equipment.
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Glen, I¡¯ve been thinking about the challenge of using the xMotion positioning controls on the Profil 45 for programmatic storage of router bit setups. ? I suppose it¡¯s possible to come up with some kind of spacer that would sit between the bottom of the router bit and the top of the collet that would ensure each router bit consistently registers vertically each time it's installed, but I have my doubts. ? The right approach (forgive me, but my machinist proclivities are taking over my brain now), is some kind of simple inexpensive tool holder for each router bit that registers consistently in a receiver/chuck atop the shaper spindle. ? The system that comes to my mind is the TSS system from Tormach - something like that ?(??). ? Kind of a poor-man¡¯s CAT40 solution for router bits. ? The new Hammer shaper spindle system is similar in concept (one spindle with different tool holder types on top) but aimed at reducing the cost to provide conversion from 3/4¡± shaper tooling to router bits rather than consistent tool registration for CNC use. ? Sorry - I do have a tendency to go down rabbit holes. ? Have yet to find a Unicorn down any of them, but there are lots of sheep down there. ? LOL
I will photograph the NOS I have available of wire rope and gripples and send you those in a PM tomorrow.
David Best
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?
Hi John
Ok this is something I did not think about. I am getting a Profil Z X motion. I am getting the understanding about setting the cutterheads and programing them in the data base but I really did not think about the spindle shaper. I figured if I just bottom out the router bit in the spindle I could program those as well. Now thinking about it not knowing what the chuck depth is that I might not be able to bottom out the bit which by my thinking make the tooling memory of the machine totally useless.
Am I on track here?
Glen
And I will never say it enough, thank you and all for my learning curve ?
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
To: FOG < felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 4:11 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Problem with using router bits in a shaper is the aggravation of setup. The truth is you could probably buy a dedicated router table setup for the price of the router spindle. This of course is if you have the room for another piece of equipment.
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I cut a length of dowel to jam between the machine side and the lock button in the locked position. Leaves two hands free for that spanner. One to hold it flat on the collet and the other to unscrew it.
Contrary to received opinion I like the router spindle and haven't used my dedicated router bench since i got it.
'Chacun a son gout' as they say in Wales
Paul Mc Cann
|
Glen, Regards programing data with a router cutter. If a router cutter will not bottom out you could use a small spacer between the bottom of the chuck and the end of the cutter, a small piece of dowel would do the job. Normally when I'm using the router spindle I'm making a very short run of a moulding, and i will not have to ever recreate it so I don't generally keep a log. The only log I've got for the router are for old cmt cope and stick cutters. they give a great finish when used with the power feed. Im generally using Tulip wood for doors, naturally if you use a harder wood you could end with scorching on such a small diameter cutter.?
Jonathan
On 24 January 2017 at 06:51, GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
OK David
Thank you for you being you and everyone else here. I am learning so much from you all
I will make the road trip up and just pick up yours. LOL That is a really nice setup and I will total dig in to your pictures and build one
I would really like to come up and meet you this summer, and I do have something to bring you.
What I need to be doing is getting my final drawings in to design review for the building but I am hooked on this group and learning a wealth of information
After all the bad things I have went through as you know, this has been a dream of mine for many years and its going to happen, and I have to say with you and everyone input my error rate will be alot lower, My little town is even helping to make this a reality. and as my my my mentor Christine may she rest in peace wanted me to do this because she knew my talent and what I? wanted to do in my retirement and I want her to know that I did.
Glen
?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
To: rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 6:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best
?
Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
??
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
Brian
I did not even think about access, was only thinking about the heat aspect, I total get what your saying.
Glen
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-----Original Message-----
From: brian@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 7:06 am
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: lighting question
?
Glen,
the issue isn't clearance but the spray foam itself. Things like the foam trapping J-box covers closed, expanding into the fixture or J-box, etc. More and more LED fixtures are getting approved for direct contact with foam, probably the testing is the hardest part. There is some opinion that just wrapping plastic over the fixture is enough, because most manufacturers just say 'No direct contact' and don't specify a 3" gap, which is a leftover cleance from another application.?
In reply to:
I thought you did not need the clearance on led fixtures. I know they make cans that are zero clearance because thats what I put in my house when I built it .
|
OK David
Thank you for you being you and everyone else here. I am learning so much from you all
I will make the road trip up and just pick up yours. LOL That is a really nice setup and I will total dig in to your pictures and build one
I would really like to come up and meet you this summer, and I do have something to bring you.
What I need to be doing is getting my final drawings in to design review for the building but I am hooked on this group and learning a wealth of information
After all the bad things I have went through as you know, this has been a dream of mine for many years and its going to happen, and I have to say with you and everyone input my error rate will be alot lower, My little town is even helping to make this a reality. and as my my my mentor Christine may she rest in peace wanted me to do this because she knew my talent and what I? wanted to do in my retirement and I want her to know that I did.
Glen
?
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-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]
To: rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 6:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best
?
Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
??
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
Thank you Mac
Thats what I am starting to figure out too
I do want to get my air clamps from you and will be talking to you when I get to that point.
How I can take a little wood shop and make it so complicate... Only I can pull that task off
It will be fun at the end and in reality that's all that really matters
Glen
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-----Original Message-----
From: mac campshure mac512002@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 6:15 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Glen I would suggest both spindles.?
Not a fan of router spindle.
Designing and building for 47 years
?
Problem with using router bits in a shaper is the aggravation of setup. The truth is you could probably buy a dedicated router table setup for the price of the router spindle. This of course is if you have the room for another piece of equipment.
|
Hi John
Ok this is something I did not think about. I am getting a Profil Z X motion. I am getting the understanding about setting the cutterheads and programing them in the data base but I really did not think about the spindle shaper. I figured if I just bottom out the router bit in the spindle I could program those as well. Now thinking about it not knowing what the chuck depth is that I might not be able to bottom out the bit which by my thinking make the tooling memory of the machine totally useless.
Am I on track here?
Glen
And I will never say it enough, thank you and all for my learning curve ?
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-----Original Message-----
From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking]
To: FOG
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 4:11 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Problem with using router bits in a shaper is the aggravation of setup. The truth is you could probably buy a dedicated router table setup for the price of the router spindle. This of course is if you have the room for another piece of equipment.
|
Footcandles of light- some recommendations.
I spent some time wandering around with a light meter and have some observations from 62 year old eyes, glasses of course.
10 - 20fc. Typical light found on the interior of many job sites. Not enough, but often made to work. Not good.
40 - 55fc. Adequate light, I read highly detailed drawings in this
light all the time.? Probably the minimum you'll want in a shop
environment.
70 - 85fc. A very good amount of light on a machine, work bench, etc .
200 - 500fc. The light directly under a bright task light. I have two
"Uberlights" (http://tinyurl.com/znj5n9m) in my shop and one in the
mockup room in my office for when I need to see fine detail or work on
tiny things, they are wonderful. Make sure to get the LED, there is a
Halogen $10 less.
The absolute best lighting, in my opinion, would be to light the
entire shop to 40 or 50fc, then kick the levels up to about 80fc at the
benches and at the machines that need it, plus a machine lamp like the
Uberlight at milling machines and similar. Cheap track lighting with LED
narrow floods would work great, very adjustable if you move the
machines.
This is for a windowless area. If there are a lot of big windows with
no tinting you'll probably need a lot more light, your eyes close down
when they track across a bright window and that makes everything in the
space look darker. I often film large view windows back 50 to 80% and
the effect is to make the room feel much brighter as your eyes will
accept more of the interior light.
Brian(J)
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Glen, here¡¯s where I got my wire rope & gripples several years ago¡
?
Alan Manufacturing Inc.
3927 East Lincoln Way
Wooster, OH 44691
(800) 435-2526
Fax (877) 333-2526
?
Customer Service Hours
Monday - Thursday 8:30 am - 5:00 pm
Friday 9:00 am - 3:00 pm
?
Ask to speak with Melinda.?
Their prices were fair and they shipped quickly.
?
Best,
?
Bill
Billick
|
The photos are here: | | | | | | Oops! Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content. | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ?
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ME TOO. I have four new three phase machines coming and have single phase and against my will have to put in the converter too
MY electric company will up grade the lines on my street for me and big cost which iI may half to do and they will bring in three phase but at that cost I would half to sell my house to pay for it. So I guess im gettin a phase converter too.
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-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Air lines
?
Tell me more.
In the next couple years i plan to purchase a couple three phase machines that i will have to run off single phase power.
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, David Davies myfinishingtouch@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
And don't be afraid to ask questions before you jump in to something.? I wish I would have asked before buying my rotary phase converter...I probably wouldn't have it now if I had asked.
Dave
|
I have to say I agree with every thing here That Brian says here. This is what I did in my old shop. I was to lazy to slope lines so I just ran them where needed instead of dropping down the wall to a elbow, I used a tee and stuck on 18 inch more pipe to a cock valve. This worked well for me because every time I plugged in a tool or hose I would see the valve and I would spend the 5 seconds to drian out the drop. The other thing I did is to run a separate line for any spraying locations I was going have I put a high end filter system on that for the lubricant removal to spray and the rest went through its own water separator on the other line> now that im getting expensive equ8ipment that plan may change but it worked will not to run all that air through my high end spray pot line ? ?
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-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking]
To: FOG
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Air lines
?
Use copper, run your drops off the top of the line, make a U to drop back down. Run down hill slope on the main line, then at the end run a drop off the bottom, put a gate valve on the bottom and drain any condensation in the lines daily. A filter/regulator just after the compressor is enough for what you are doing. Caution on lubricators, as you may want a line without for spraying, oil in all of your compressed air isn¡¯t always what you want.
Ok so more help.
I am reluctant to ask as not to be a pest. On the other hand such quick simple answers are to be found here.
I have spent a good amount of time online reading and watching videos on proper plumbing for compresed air.
I have become tired of moving my contractors compressor all over my shop. I suppose i could just run a flex air line along the floor but im kthe ndamneat freak and that would just never fly for me. I'm a clean up after every operation kinda guy. It keeps my brain organized.
Anyway i was considering the soft air lines with the quick fits. I have resigned to going 3/4 copper with 1/2 drops. I'm will only use air for my air clamps and a brad and pin nailer. Being a neat freak i stick to my Festool sanders.?
I will put a on off ball valve and flex hose to my compressor. My run is only 20' long with three drops. The question is do i need a filter and lubricator at every drop or can i just put one at the begining of my run near my actual compressor.
I will not be upgrading my compressor anytime soon as it is very low on my list of "must have" priorities. When i do i am apt to go for the 10 gallon ultra quiet California air unit for my needs. The tool addict in me wants a two stage compressor but for my needs i don't want to give up the space or listen to the darn thing.?
So drops do i need a filter at each one?
Any other insight is welcomed.
??
|
Thank you Brian
This good info for me. I am a little slow responding because I am helping out my electrician trim out his new music studio. I have to say this... his studio is nicer than my house and I have a really nice house. So end result is I get all the electrial install free for my shop forever, I have to pay for product but that is it .
Sorry I am going to put my notes in the body of your email to be clear.
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-----Original Message-----
From: brian@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 11:13 am
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: lighting question
?
Hi Glen,
If you install that number of fixtures (36) in the manner David suggests it looks like you will get about 85 footcandles. If you install them as you suggest you will, following the line of the ceiling, you will get a lot less in the middle of the room. And are planning on mounting them flush/angled to the ceiling plane or hanging each fixture level, the middle fixtures much higher? If you mount flush/angled you'll have a lot of glare.
So is 85 FC enough for a wood shop.. i want to be really able to see, the numbers on my tape keep getting smaller
so i thought mounting them direct to the slope would increase the light in the center of the shopwher my bigger machines will be. my electicrian said make blocks and get them vertical to decrease the wash over of light
The Cooper Metalux fixture you're looking at is what is known as a Low Bay fixture, because it has more of a horizontal light output. It would work better for the lower 11' or 12' mounting height. If you put them up higher at the peaked area you might want to look at a High Bay fixture for those areas as a lot of the light will be wasted lighting more ceiling and less work area.
That is what David was suggesting, so maybe mixing fixtures... low bay on the lower sections swich to high bay when i get half way up the rake
You are looking at using a lot of fixtures with a moderate to low output, you could do the s
ame job with 12 fixtures costing $225 each and save some money, both fixture and installation. Econolite E-AB1L11NU for example. I'm not recommending anything, just making a couple observations.
Ok this is where you guys kick butt helping us I will check this out and would never hold you guys to anything that does not work for me, My plan once I get my list down to four or five fixtures, will order one of each and do a test run in my living room, which happens to be exactly like my shop building with the ceiling layout
Mounting the fixture higher, at 16' using a more downward optic, say 25 Econolite E-ALB1L07NU at $175 ea. you get the same amount of light.
OK i will look at this too
I've posted the Visual plots as images in the Photo's section.
Ok Brian I am going to bend your ear more on this if you dont mind< may need some help getting in to the Photo section from you but let me start with get specs on the fixtures and comparing
Thank you so much for spending your time for me
Glen
Brian(J)
?
|
Nice I never even thought about doing SOSS hinges with a mortising machine. That just made that purchase a little less painfull.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bellsouth dohertyj@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 8:06 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
This Hammer video shows lots of mortising techniques too.
Joe in New Orleans
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortisi
ng bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I
do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorr
y for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
?? On Sunday, January 22, 2017, ?andy.giddings@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
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Hi David
Thank you so much for your time helping me with details and you knowledge.
I totality understand your thought about the 11 and 12 foot elevation plan, the whole plan with the cathedral ceiling was to get some hight for ease of moving things or tall projects. I made a three story fir circular stair case in my friends shop last summer and the extra building ht was invaluable to assemble sections for a dry test run. My electrical is taking me to a building that he did that is much like mine so i can really get a good idea of how the lighting is. he also told me if I am going to mount them to a slope to make a wood block to mount first to level the fixtures horizontal. we will see what I go get to see. he also told me that my plan of fixture layout was way over kill on the fixture and instead of 40 I should be in 25 to 30 range. as for the DC that a different story when i said it adds about 20 feet to my lines thats not true , it is much more that because of the extra drop to each or group of machines, so I am totally listing to you on that asspect. so instead of? running the trunk line down to ridge, I am looking at two, one at each intermediate beams to the end wall and to the DC. This cuts my elevation on the line alot and makes my runs to the machines a lot shorter. I thought about putting duct work in the slab but that is very risky venture and as you say I dosent matter how well I work this out I will mess up the layout and machines will get moved.I have to say I built alot of 5 million dollar houses and I am really good at it to every last little detail, but this 2000 SF of space is way more complex in every aspect.
As for the
wire rope & gripples I think I know what your talking about but if not if you could sent me a link that would be great. If you happen to sell the product or at least can make some money on it I will buy them from you. I will be needing them because no mater what I do things will need to be suspended from the ceiling.
And ok Im in on the FOG shop raising. but I get to bring my new cutterheads for the Frisbee tossing contest, however mine will be plastic. They may not cut for shit , but they will fly.
I did talk to my HVAC contractor, he is going to supply me all the spiral ducting, He told me there is an easy way to prep the ducts for paint . He did not know what it was but he is going to find out from his commercial installers what it is.
So my shop gets more complicated every turn and I am in for the challenge. My tooling budget got cut a bit to move to the 250k for the basic building construction and we are in planning for approval which takes forever where I live. So my new completion date is 2 long years. I do have a chance to get a temp. building for two or more years to at least half ass my shop and start learning the tools and making some of the shop fixtures. Felder set my start production date for July and will hold my tooling through December
So now is the time to really work on the rest of the tools and layout and get it the best that I can . I am looking for a local to help me with the CAD parts of the layout to get machine placement, locate power and DC drops. I know this girl, she used to work for me but now designs parking structures...She is doing the new Apple campus in the bay area and she single and fun. Going too call her as she offered to help me before.
The thinks I can get myself into
Glen
And again thank you so much for your input
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-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]
To: rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:13 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] lighting question
?
My recommendation is you establish and maintain two horizontal elevations in your shop - one at about 11-feet for lighting, and another at 12 feet for the CL of your Dust Extraction piping and compressed air piping (use copper). ? Suspend the lighting with threaded rod from the sloped ceiling, hang the dust extraction piping from the ceiling with wire rope and gripples. ? That will give you the flexibility to make changes to the dust extraction system over time - which you WILL be modifying, no matter how much advanced planning you do. ?DO NOT follow the vaulted ceiling line - there is no reason to do this and it will add complexity and diminish performance of both the lighting and DE. ? I could even supply you with the necessary wire rope & gripples if you¡¯d need them. ? We could have a FOG shop raising weekend complete with soldered copper air, sliding table alignment seminar, and shaper tooling frisbee tossing contest. ? As for painting your DE piping, I have done this in the past and it¡¯s a total PITA for several reasons, but the two most important are 1) you will be making adds, changes, deletions to the system, and 2) you¡¯ll have to wash all the dust extraction piping components in an acid bath prior to priming and painting or the paint will just flake off - been there, done that.
David Best
?
My ceiling slopes up from 10 feet at the eave to 21 ft at the ridge and back down to 10 feet on the other side.
What I m getting told is my lighting should be at the same level off the floor at 12 to 14 feet, but that is not what i want. I want all the fixtures mounted direct to the ceiling to keep the space in the cent open to flip boards and have my vertical stock storage racks.
And thats brings up another issue about dust collection, I want to have them up at ceiling line too but that's going to add about 20 feet to my main line run. I have no idea what to get for a collection system yet ( was going to do Felder but thinking no at this point) but All the additional pipe I am sure im going to need a bigger unit. not sure who to contact yet, I do know that oneida does calculations but im sure others do to. One off the many things i really need to start working out
Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: brian@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2017 9:54 pm
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: lighting question
?
What height off the floor are you planning on mounting the fixtures??
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And keep your beating stick away from Matilda. She's a very sensitive sheepie! LOL
Warm regards,David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
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On 24 Jan. 2017, at 3:25 am, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Yes David but this time it's different, it's a unicorn. Sorry for that it was my 3rd personality that made me type this.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2017-01-23 11:42 AM (GMT-05:00) To: " rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I was wondering when the top-hat bushing subject would emerge again - it¡¯s been almost a month since we beat that horse to death. ? :-)
David Best
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture?
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
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David,
Lovely router table! Very well thought out. When will production begin so others might get one....?
I was unaware of the Prevost pushbutton, air prelease couplers until Mac mentioned them, but back in 1983 when one of my finish carpenters did the one hand release thing on a hose, with resulting damage to a cabinet, I found pre release couplings at Grainger and switched over. Those couplings required twisting the outer sleeve, which released air pressure, before the couplings could be separated. It became such a pain training the guys that I quit the experiment. Perhaps I'd still be using them had I been aware of the pushbutton couplers, but I've never really had much issue with the problem of wild hose separation.
One more frequent issue has been the guys dragging across finish floors and around corners with the metal couplings leaving scratches. Back in 05 I imagined "softer", composite couplers and a search turned up the Vaper composites, tried a few, loved them and converted over.
Great couplers... They weigh about a third of metal couplers, accept three different styles of fittings (ARO, Milton, T style), so accept any fittings I've encountered on construction sites, do not require pulling back to outer sleeve in order to accept fitting and fittings are locked in with little effort, and if (when) dropped or dragged do little or no harm to finish surfaces. Two years of use with no hint of leaking. I'm now a major fan. Highly recommended....
They can be had througgh eBay (pricey), Amazon (not bad) but I bought them through NTX Tools for a bit over $6 apiece.
After my initial timid purchase I bought a bunch for my own use on the second order, then another large order when everybody on the crew wished to convert. That order took several weeks to fulfill because NTX had to restock.
Around the same time I researched new air hose offerings and bought some Flexilla hose. Best ever in my experience. Very light, not prone to tangling, durable, light green which is more noticeable and less easily tripped on in low light conditions. Flexilla comes in two versions, one with fixed fittings, the other, the PRO version with field repairable, aircraft aluminum reusable fittings, both straight and swiveling ends. Fantastic stuff. Highly recommended.
I purchased 100 footers and a bunch of ends through compressor-source on eBay as they had the best pricing, then cut to desired lengths and fitted swivel ends.
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David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer