Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the felder-woodworking
group.


File : /Manuals/700 Series Parts Manual (vers 10_2005).pdf
Uploaded by : mstuber <garrisonstuber@...>
Description :


You can access this file at the URL:



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:



Regards,


mstuber <garrisonstuber@...>

I have a KF700S Professional on order.? Does anyone know where I can get a PDF version of the manual.? I asked my sales person a week ago and haven't heard back.

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OK, just couldn’t resist this blast from the past. ? I posted a document in the files section on how to adapt a fixed-base handheld router to the shaper spindle recess on the KF700 and F700 machines. ? in the FOG files section it’s named?Router Adapter System for Felder KF F700.pdf? This idea could easily be adapted to the Profil 45. ? I can hear some eyes rolling out there. ? LOL

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the felder-woodworking
group.


File : /Router Adapter System for Felder KF F700.pdf
Uploaded by : david_best_woodworking <david@...>
Description : How to adapt a handheld router to the spindle shaper recess on the Felder KF700 and F700 machines.


You can access this file at the URL:



To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:



Regards,


david_best_woodworking <david@...>

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Put the wrench in a vise and bend a dog leg in it, I did that to mine years ago, pictures should be on the FOG somewhere. It makes it a lot easier to deal with.

Whoops, fat fingers hit the enter key before I finished!



To continue…



It is my understanding, but I have yet to confirm with actual use, that the musclechuck will allow the use of a hard spacer as it does not snug down the bit in order to apply pressure to keep the bit in place.



I have ordered one for my Triton router and look forward to testing it out.



BTW, I really recommend the router bit sets from Sommerfeld as they are designed to be the same height so there is no need to make adjustments when changing bits.



I use my router spindle in my KF700SP more than my router table for the very same reasons others have expressed (flat surface, no flex in the fence or sliding table, etc). Even though the spindle speed is a little slower, I use my power feeder (Co-Matic DC-40) to feed most of my stock and the results have been fantastic so far.



Warmly,



Bill



From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 10:38 AM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: RE: [felder-woodworking] FD250





Glen,

If I may disagree with you regarding the use of a dowel as a spacer in the chuck. A typical chuck, when tightening, causes the bit to “snug down” in the collet in order to allow the collet to apply the proper pressure on the bit to keep it in place and snug. The chuck actually brings the height of the bit down as it tightens up. Putting a hard spacer such as a dowel will interfere with the chuck’s ability to snug down the bit

Ask me how I know!!! I had a router bit float up in the chuck during a job and ruined a lot of wood when I put a dowel in the chuck. I called Marc Sommerfeld and he informed me that the dowel prevented the chuck from

From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 12:25 AM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250

Glen,

Regards programing data with a router cutter.

If a router cutter will not bottom out you could use a small spacer between the bottom of the chuck and the end of the cutter, a small piece of dowel would do the job.

Normally when I'm using the router spindle I'm making a very short run of a moulding, and i will not have to ever recreate it so I don't generally keep a log.

The only log I've got for the router are for old cmt cope and stick cutters. they give a great finish when used with the power feed.

Im generally using Tulip wood for doors, naturally if you use a harder wood you could end with scorching on such a small diameter cutter.

Jonathan

On 24 January 2017 at 06:51, GLEN chris3645@... <mailto:chris3645@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:

OK David
Thank you for you being you and everyone else here. I am learning so much from you all
I will make the road trip up and just pick up yours. LOL That is a really nice setup and I will total dig in to your pictures and build one
I would really like to come up and meet you this summer, and I do have something to bring you.

What I need to be doing is getting my final drawings in to design review for the building but I am hooked on this group and learning a wealth of information

After all the bad things I have went through as you know, this has been a dream of mine for many years and its going to happen, and I have to say with you and everyone input my error rate will be alot lower, My little town is even helping to make this a reality. and as my my my mentor Christine may she rest in peace wanted me to do this because she knew my talent and what I wanted to do in my retirement and I want her to know that I did.

Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... <mailto:david@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
To: rcorselli@... <mailto:rcorselli@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 6:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250

Glen, I’m not a fan of the router spindle either. Why don’t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:



David Best

On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:46 PM, GLEN chris3645@... <mailto:chris3645@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:

Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over

Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives

-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... <mailto:pwalsh651@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250

I had thought about end mill bits.

I also noticed the rangate cutters.

Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality square chisel mortising bit. I am pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.

I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.

Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The moment it sure feels that way.

With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.

Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.

The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!

As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all this stuff cost.

Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam kitchen built.

Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.

On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... <mailto:andy.giddings@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:

Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.

Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router

--

Jonathan Samways

www.fineinteriorwoodwork.com <>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Glen,



If I may disagree with you regarding the use of a dowel as a spacer in the chuck. A typical chuck, when tightening, causes the bit to “snug down” in the collet in order to allow the collet to apply the proper pressure on the bit to keep it in place and snug. The chuck actually brings the height of the bit down as it tightens up. Putting a hard spacer such as a dowel will interfere with the chuck’s ability to snug down the bit



Ask me how I know!!! I had a router bit float up in the chuck during a job and ruined a lot of wood when I put a dowel in the chuck. I called Marc Sommerfeld and he informed me that the dowel prevented the chuck from



From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 12:25 AM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250





Glen,

Regards programing data with a router cutter.

If a router cutter will not bottom out you could use a small spacer between the bottom of the chuck and the end of the cutter, a small piece of dowel would do the job.

Normally when I'm using the router spindle I'm making a very short run of a moulding, and i will not have to ever recreate it so I don't generally keep a log.

The only log I've got for the router are for old cmt cope and stick cutters. they give a great finish when used with the power feed.

Im generally using Tulip wood for doors, naturally if you use a harder wood you could end with scorching on such a small diameter cutter.



Jonathan



On 24 January 2017 at 06:51, GLEN chris3645@... <mailto:chris3645@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:



OK David
Thank you for you being you and everyone else here. I am learning so much from you all
I will make the road trip up and just pick up yours. LOL That is a really nice setup and I will total dig in to your pictures and build one
I would really like to come up and meet you this summer, and I do have something to bring you.

What I need to be doing is getting my final drawings in to design review for the building but I am hooked on this group and learning a wealth of information

After all the bad things I have went through as you know, this has been a dream of mine for many years and its going to happen, and I have to say with you and everyone input my error rate will be alot lower, My little town is even helping to make this a reality. and as my my my mentor Christine may she rest in peace wanted me to do this because she knew my talent and what I wanted to do in my retirement and I want her to know that I did.

Glen











-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... <mailto:david@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
To: rcorselli@... <mailto:rcorselli@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 6:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250



Glen, I’m not a fan of the router spindle either. Why don’t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:







David Best



On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:46 PM, GLEN chris3645@... <mailto:chris3645@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:





Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over

Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives







-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... <mailto:pwalsh651@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250



I had thought about end mill bits.



I also noticed the rangate cutters.



Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality square chisel mortising bit. I am pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.



I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.



Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The moment it sure feels that way.



With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.



Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.



The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!



As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all this stuff cost.



Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam kitchen built.



Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.



On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... <mailto:andy.giddings@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:



Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.



Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router











--

Jonathan Samways

www.fineinteriorwoodwork.com <>

John,



To solve the issue of the router bit being set in the same spot in the router spindle, I borrowed from Marc Sommerfeld’s setup for router table. He includes a small rubber grommet with his router bit sets that fits inside the router chuck so that the bit hits the grommet every time while still allowing the collet to grip the bit without the bit bottoming out in the chuck. This sets the bit at the same position each time. I have changed bits in the middle of a run to correct a mistake and was able to return to my previous position without fuss. I anticipate that with the Musclechuck that I have ordered for my router, I expect the re-positioning of the bit to be perfect as the chuck does not require the bit to “snug down” in the collet like a regular collet.



Hope that helps.



Bill



From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 9:20 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250





Hi John
Ok this is something I did not think about. I am getting a Profil Z X motion. I am getting the understanding about setting the cutterheads and programing them in the data base but I really did not think about the spindle shaper. I figured if I just bottom out the router bit in the spindle I could program those as well. Now thinking about it not knowing what the chuck depth is that I might not be able to bottom out the bit which by my thinking make the tooling memory of the machine totally useless.

Am I on track here?
Glen
And I will never say it enough, thank you and all for my learning curve







-----Original Message-----
From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 4:11 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250



Problem with using router bits in a shaper is the aggravation of setup. The truth is you could probably buy a dedicated router table setup for the price of the router spindle. This of course is if you have the room for another piece of equipment.



On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:46 AM, GLEN chris3645@... <mailto:chris3645@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:



Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over

Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives







-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... <mailto:pwalsh651@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> >
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250



I had thought about end mill bits.



I also noticed the rangate cutters.



Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality square chisel mortising bit. I am pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.



I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.



Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The moment it sure feels that way.



With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.



Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.



The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!



As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all this stuff cost.



Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam kitchen built.



Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.



On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... <mailto:andy.giddings@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:



Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.



Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router







--

John Kee

JMK Services

James,



Which model of the Musclechuck fits the Felder router spindle? I would love to melt the collet wrench too!



Thanks,



Bill



From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 8:33 AM
To: phil_moger@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: FD250





You can get a muscle chuck, so do not need the wrench to install/remove the router bit.







James





On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Jason Holtz jholtzy@... <mailto:jholtzy@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:



If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!



Jason






Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
www.jholtz.com <>
3307 Snelling Ave. South

Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 <tel:(612)%20432-2765>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Before the lighting thread escapes us, can I interject a somewhat relevant question? ?What is the latest thing in kitchen lighting? ?20x20 ft.Cost no object. ?I'm making some cabinets for a friend's remodel and he is confused about all the info out there on the subject. ?And I'm probably twice as confused.?

Mark,

Oh dear, my Irish sense of humour not appreciated ?

Hi Mac,