I have not been able to open the file.? I get either "unexpected end of data" or "can not open file as archive".? I have tried several options in the 7-zip selections list, and I think I am working in the same directory, not being all that good at computers.
Any help is appreciated - perhaps someone would open the KF-770 files as a PDF and post those?
Thanks,
Bob
|
There is a proper technique and if not followed, the joints can fail. ?The install you mention might just be lousy installation. ?I don't recall the specs, but I would not be surprised if there's an allowed installation temperature range too, since PEX is thermoplastic.
Of course this is a bit newfangled, and the 50-year performance of these fittings surely isn't known. ?On the other hand, people often think copper lasts forever, but that's not true either. ? In fact, copper can fail surprisingly fast (a few years) when not done right.
The ultimate in crimped PEX fittings is Viega PEX press. ?If anything lasts forever, that will, but the fittings are not cheap and the install tools are quite expensive. ?I've never seen a DIYer using it.
Mark
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Hi am using some galvanized steel standoffs to PEX today.? For a shower mast. I have seen that expansion set up in the last house my son? Built and the plumbing company did the work in the cold and a lot of it Failed ?just fell apart to it is environmentally sensitive if its The same thing. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Jan 28, 2017, at 10:46 AM, George george954679@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Cool tool. That looks like a good one that you buy, do your shop and let everyone else borrow. I don't think I'd wear it out on the little bit of airline I'll run. The copper pipe? Is the stuff they sell for residential water lines suitable? Thanks
?
PEX is becoming more popular. ? You can't use it where you need structural self-supporting lines, like steel pipe on hangers in mid-air, but if you're installing along surfaces, nothing is easier or faster. ?The outside diameter is same as copper, so you can intermix PEX and copper with sharkbite fittings. ?For example, people often use a couple feet of copper at the endpoint for a rigid standoff. ??
For fastest and simplest PEX, I use one of these:
| | | | | | The M12? cordless lithium-ion ProPEX? expansion tool features an auto-rotating head for convenient one-handed operation. For more information visit ... | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ?
|
I know rubber hose works I have had it installed for years I think normal rating is 300 psi ?on the other hand PEX? May be a problem I looked to day at the stuff at the big stor And ratings were quite low blue being the higest in straight lengths But only 180 no good enough for my safety factor, I have to Check what I'm have in Shop to se ratings.? The hydraulic pressure fittings look interesting but only? One t one use so. The re out for me, got to be reusable? Will probably stay with rubber air hose. Designing and building for 47 years
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On Jan 28, 2017, at 10:30 AM, murkyd@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
PEX is becoming more popular. ? You can't use it where you need structural self-supporting lines, like steel pipe on hangers in mid-air, but if you're installing along surfaces, nothing is easier or faster. ?The outside diameter is same as copper, so you can intermix PEX and copper with sharkbite fittings. ?For example, people often use a couple feet of copper at the endpoint for a rigid standoff. ??
For fastest and simplest PEX, I use one of these:
| | | | | | The M12? cordless lithium-ion ProPEX? expansion tool features an auto-rotating head for convenient one-handed operation. For more information visit ... | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ?
|
Thanks Mark. I appreciate the info. Very helpful. George?
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On Jan 28, 2017, at 12:20 PM, murkyd@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Yes, I think the tool probably lasts forever. ?I try to loan mine out, but I don't get a lot of takers. ?This PEX connector system, and several other proprietary variants, don't make sense to most people for just a few connections, because you can't buy the fittings at local big box or hardware stores (at least not in my area). ?It's not really intended for the DIY'er to do a few bits of piping, but rather the professional plumber who does this all day long.
But the fittings are cheap (the cheapest in fact, one of the savings when doing a lot), and you can them online (eg, ) or at professional plumbing supply places.
Copper pipe is totally standardized. ?The stuff at big box stores for residential is the same as what you'd get at a plumbing supply for commercial/industrial. ? Google it and you'll see there's 3 standard types - K, L, and M -- which have slightly different wall thicknesses, which is primarily about mechanical strength, ie, one typically uses thicker wall for in-ground burial, etc. ?But for air in a shop it makes no real difference.
Mark ? ? ?
|
Hi,
I am also a new C3-31 owner and would be interested in how you upgraded these parts, as my only real beef with the machine is that the combination fence stinks.
Thanks!
|
Yes, I think the tool probably lasts forever. ?I try to loan mine out, but I don't get a lot of takers. ?This PEX connector system, and several other proprietary variants, don't make sense to most people for just a few connections, because you can't buy the fittings at local big box or hardware stores (at least not in my area). ?It's not really intended for the DIY'er to do a few bits of piping, but rather the professional plumber who does this all day long.
But the fittings are cheap (the cheapest in fact, one of the savings when doing a lot), and you can them online (eg, supplyhouse.com) or at professional plumbing supply places.
Copper pipe is totally standardized. ?The stuff at big box stores for residential is the same as what you'd get at a plumbing supply for commercial/industrial. ? Google it and you'll see there's 3 standard types - K, L, and M -- which have slightly different wall thicknesses, which is primarily about mechanical strength, ie, one typically uses thicker wall for in-ground burial, etc. ?But for air in a shop it makes no real difference.
Mark ? ? ?
|
Cool tool. That looks like a good one that you buy, do your shop and let everyone else borrow. I don't think I'd wear it out on the little bit of airline I'll run. The copper pipe? Is the stuff they sell for residential water lines suitable? Thanks
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On Jan 28, 2017, at 11:30 AM, murkyd@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
PEX is becoming more popular. ? You can't use it where you need structural self-supporting lines, like steel pipe on hangers in mid-air, but if you're installing along surfaces, nothing is easier or faster. ?The outside diameter is same as copper, so you can intermix PEX and copper with sharkbite fittings. ?For example, people often use a couple feet of copper at the endpoint for a rigid standoff. ??
For fastest and simplest PEX, I use one of these:
| | | | | | The M12? cordless lithium-ion ProPEX? expansion tool features an auto-rotating head for convenient one-handed operation. For more information visit ... | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ?
|
PEX is becoming more popular. ? You can't use it where you need structural self-supporting lines, like steel pipe on hangers in mid-air, but if you're installing along surfaces, nothing is easier or faster. ?The outside diameter is same as copper, so you can intermix PEX and copper with sharkbite fittings. ?For example, people often use a couple feet of copper at the endpoint for a rigid standoff. ??
For fastest and simplest PEX, I use one of these:
| | | | | | The M12? cordless lithium-ion ProPEX? expansion tool features an auto-rotating head for convenient one-handed operation. For more information visit ... | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ?
|
I did a quick search online l. I didn't find anybody making the argument that using PVC to s a good idea. OSHA says it's a no no. I installed mine years ago before I had a computer. It never occurred to me to check into it. I just assumed it was safe since it was printed right on it 280 PSI and I only run 110. I need to check into PEX or rubber tubing. I could run it through the existing hangars. Just because the PVC hasn't exploded yet doesn't mean it won't.?
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On Jan 28, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
I can¡¯t say if they have improved the PVC, I doubt it¡¯s changed much. I can¡¯t speak for other¡¯s ressults, can only relay what happened to us and why I wouldn¡¯t do it again. It was cheaper at the time, but mostly because we didn¡¯t have to sit and thread the steel pipe that was commonly used. I get around that by using copper and soldering it, yes, it¡¯s more expensive but it seems to work well and last forever.
Sounds like I need to replace my PVC airlines. I wonder why there hasn't been a bit of problem down at Jim's auto repair shop? It's gets used hard. The fact that his compressors are inside may help some. Also there aren't any automatic oilers.Does oil degrade PVC? ?It was installed around 2005 or 2006. Is the PVC still the same as it was in the early eighties or have they improved it? I know a semi retired trim carpenter who has Schedule 40 running through his shop. It was installed in 2002. Not a bit of problem. Granted it is only under pressure part time. While I did recommend it in my previous post, I also mentioned Roland Johnson's misgivings and made it clear that I was not speaking as an expert. I am not nonchalant about safety of others or myself. It sound like PVC gets brittle over time. Brian, I take your warning seriously and will mention it to my friends.
?We plumbed our machine shop with Schedule 80 1¡± PVC back in the early 80¡¯s when we built it. Biggest mistake we ever made. The lines from the compressor sitting outside started failing within 6 months, guess the UV made the PVC brittle. So we re-piped with steel pipe from the outside into the building and to the input side of the filter/regulator unit. Then over the next 10 years or so, it continuously failed and blew apart, starting closest to the compressor (we assumed heat in the air might have been the culprit) but gradually got to the point where we had failures throughout the shop.
Exploding PVC pipe or fittings is nothing to be nonchalant about, when they let go, you get a missiles of small plastic pieces headed somewhere. We were just lucky nobody ever got hurt, probably because most of the lines were 16¡¯ overhead and the pieces lost a lot of the force by the time they went down to shop level.
Since then I won¡¯t plumb with anything but copper. It is or at least was at that time, against code to use anything less than schedule 80, and it had to be the gray industrial stuff. We checked at the time and although it was ¡°legal¡±, I sure wouldn¡¯t do it again.
A lot of people I know use Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 PVC pipe to plumb their air lines. A friend/neighbor uses Schedule 80 in his automotive repair shop. He installed it over 10 years ago. He has two 60 gallon compressors operating in tandem providing air for ? 3-4 mechanics working simultaneously. They are in there wrenching 8-10 hours a day,5-6 days a week. ?Roland Johnson wrote an article in Fine Woodworking a number of years ago warning against PVC. He thought it could explode if you hit it sharply with something. I guess it's possible, but I have 3/4" Schedule 40 in my shop and feel completely safe with it. Take that last statement for what it's worth. I haven't seen any proof one way or another. I'm no expert. PVC, hung with conduit hangers. Quick, cheap and easy.
?You can use ¡°Sharkbite¡± fittings on copper lines. The do have the stainless grippers, but you can slide a tool (I usually use an open end wrench the right size) to un-compress the bite portion and slip the pipe and fitting apart. It is important to properly deburr the pipe inside and out so it doesn¡¯t cut the o-rings, but if done right, they don¡¯t leak.?
I have some in household water applications that have been in place for many years now with no leaks, and I used a few in spots in my current shop for the air lines. I tend to solder segments of the airlines together on the ground, then lift them in place and assemble with a sharkbite. Back when I did it, about 7 years ago on this shop, the fittings were still rather pricey, but they have come way down.
A warning about that blue aluminium air pipe. There are many brands, but from what I've seen they all work similarly/the same. It's a quick system design, usually with plastic fittings and aluminium pipe. Joints are push fit and thread-tightened together, using rubber o-rings to complete a joint.?
This system is comparatively expensive and does NOT work. I have it, and hate it. No matter what I do, it leaks at the joints. I have been meticulous in preparing and cleaning joints. However, leaks persist. The plastic fitting can only be tightened "so much" which is sometimes not "enough". If the joint has any sideways pressure on it, it leaks. The joint is supposed to be reversible so it can be re-jigged and re-used. Nope! Sure, you can get a given joint apart, but there is a steel serrated washer inside which helps close the o-ring fit around the pipe as it is threaded tight. This serrated washer bites into the aluminium pipe surface. When taken apart, the pipe surface is "raunched" up and rendered useless without cutting off the chewed up end. Otherwise you get leaks. Even the plastic fittings can't be reused. Guaranteed to leak. I've found the fittings I have are single use only.?
This system is supposed to be quick. Which it is. It's supposed to be reusable and reconfigurable. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be leak proof. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be good value for money. NOT in my opinion!
Maybe some of you have had a very different experience with the blue stuff? ?I recall seeing this guy's install on YouTube - he's based in Belgium so not sure the brand of tube is even available here - does look like a neat and quick install?
|
>? I wonder why there hasn't been a bit of problem down at Jim's auto repair shop?
Because it doesn't always fail. ?Maybe only one in a thousand installations fail. ??The point is that the failure mode can be dangerous -- PVC produces shrapnel, unlike steel, copper, certain other plastics, etc. ?But if you're the person blinded by the shrapnel (or the employer of the person), it's not a lot of consolation that it was a low probability event. ??
As Brian notes, it's not much of a risk 16' away (PVC has low mass and thus low momentum), but you wouldn't want a PVC failure real close to you. ??Here's a video illustrating PVC failure mode:
| | | | | | Air Tank Material Selection There are two general modes of failure in mechanical components: "brittle" or "ductile" fracture. "Ductile"... | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ? ??
|
I can¡¯t say if they have improved the PVC, I doubt it¡¯s changed much. I can¡¯t speak for other¡¯s ressults, can only relay what happened to us and why I wouldn¡¯t do it again. It was cheaper at the time, but mostly because we didn¡¯t have to sit and thread the steel pipe that was commonly used. I get around that by using copper and soldering it, yes, it¡¯s more expensive but it seems to work well and last forever.
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Sounds like I need to replace my PVC airlines. I wonder why there hasn't been a bit of problem down at Jim's auto repair shop? It's gets used hard. The fact that his compressors are inside may help some. Also there aren't any automatic oilers.Does oil degrade PVC? ?It was installed around 2005 or 2006. Is the PVC still the same as it was in the early eighties or have they improved it? I know a semi retired trim carpenter who has Schedule 40 running through his shop. It was installed in 2002. Not a bit of problem. Granted it is only under pressure part time. While I did recommend it in my previous post, I also mentioned Roland Johnson's misgivings and made it clear that I was not speaking as an expert. I am not nonchalant about safety of others or myself. It sound like PVC gets brittle over time. Brian, I take your warning seriously and will mention it to my friends.
?We plumbed our machine shop with Schedule 80 1¡± PVC back in the early 80¡¯s when we built it. Biggest mistake we ever made. The lines from the compressor sitting outside started failing within 6 months, guess the UV made the PVC brittle. So we re-piped with steel pipe from the outside into the building and to the input side of the filter/regulator unit. Then over the next 10 years or so, it continuously failed and blew apart, starting closest to the compressor (we assumed heat in the air might have been the culprit) but gradually got to the point where we had failures throughout the shop.
Exploding PVC pipe or fittings is nothing to be nonchalant about, when they let go, you get a missiles of small plastic pieces headed somewhere. We were just lucky nobody ever got hurt, probably because most of the lines were 16¡¯ overhead and the pieces lost a lot of the force by the time they went down to shop level.
Since then I won¡¯t plumb with anything but copper. It is or at least was at that time, against code to use anything less than schedule 80, and it had to be the gray industrial stuff. We checked at the time and although it was ¡°legal¡±, I sure wouldn¡¯t do it again.
A lot of people I know use Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 PVC pipe to plumb their air lines. A friend/neighbor uses Schedule 80 in his automotive repair shop. He installed it over 10 years ago. He has two 60 gallon compressors operating in tandem providing air for ? 3-4 mechanics working simultaneously. They are in there wrenching 8-10 hours a day,5-6 days a week. ?Roland Johnson wrote an article in Fine Woodworking a number of years ago warning against PVC. He thought it could explode if you hit it sharply with something. I guess it's possible, but I have 3/4" Schedule 40 in my shop and feel completely safe with it. Take that last statement for what it's worth. I haven't seen any proof one way or another. I'm no expert. PVC, hung with conduit hangers. Quick, cheap and easy.
?You can use ¡°Sharkbite¡± fittings on copper lines. The do have the stainless grippers, but you can slide a tool (I usually use an open end wrench the right size) to un-compress the bite portion and slip the pipe and fitting apart. It is important to properly deburr the pipe inside and out so it doesn¡¯t cut the o-rings, but if done right, they don¡¯t leak.?
I have some in household water applications that have been in place for many years now with no leaks, and I used a few in spots in my current shop for the air lines. I tend to solder segments of the airlines together on the ground, then lift them in place and assemble with a sharkbite. Back when I did it, about 7 years ago on this shop, the fittings were still rather pricey, but they have come way down.
A warning about that blue aluminium air pipe. There are many brands, but from what I've seen they all work similarly/the same. It's a quick system design, usually with plastic fittings and aluminium pipe. Joints are push fit and thread-tightened together, using rubber o-rings to complete a joint.?
This system is comparatively expensive and does NOT work. I have it, and hate it. No matter what I do, it leaks at the joints. I have been meticulous in preparing and cleaning joints. However, leaks persist. The plastic fitting can only be tightened "so much" which is sometimes not "enough". If the joint has any sideways pressure on it, it leaks. The joint is supposed to be reversible so it can be re-jigged and re-used. Nope! Sure, you can get a given joint apart, but there is a steel serrated washer inside which helps close the o-ring fit around the pipe as it is threaded tight. This serrated washer bites into the aluminium pipe surface. When taken apart, the pipe surface is "raunched" up and rendered useless without cutting off the chewed up end. Otherwise you get leaks. Even the plastic fittings can't be reused. Guaranteed to leak. I've found the fittings I have are single use only.?
This system is supposed to be quick. Which it is. It's supposed to be reusable and reconfigurable. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be leak proof. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be good value for money. NOT in my opinion!
Maybe some of you have had a very different experience with the blue stuff? ?I recall seeing this guy's install on YouTube - he's based in Belgium so not sure the brand of tube is even available here - does look like a neat and quick install?
|
Sounds like I need to replace my PVC airlines. I wonder why there hasn't been a bit of problem down at Jim's auto repair shop? It's gets used hard. The fact that his compressors are inside may help some. Also there aren't any automatic oilers.Does oil degrade PVC? ?It was installed around 2005 or 2006. Is the PVC still the same as it was in the early eighties or have they improved it? I know a semi retired trim carpenter who has Schedule 40 running through his shop. It was installed in 2002. Not a bit of problem. Granted it is only under pressure part time. While I did recommend it in my previous post, I also mentioned Roland Johnson's misgivings and made it clear that I was not speaking as an expert. I am not nonchalant about safety of others or myself. It sound like PVC gets brittle over time. Brian, I take your warning seriously and will mention it to my friends.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 28, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
We plumbed our machine shop with Schedule 80 1¡± PVC back in the early 80¡¯s when we built it. Biggest mistake we ever made. The lines from the compressor sitting outside started failing within 6 months, guess the UV made the PVC brittle. So we re-piped with steel pipe from the outside into the building and to the input side of the filter/regulator unit. Then over the next 10 years or so, it continuously failed and blew apart, starting closest to the compressor (we assumed heat in the air might have been the culprit) but gradually got to the point where we had failures throughout the shop.
Exploding PVC pipe or fittings is nothing to be nonchalant about, when they let go, you get a missiles of small plastic pieces headed somewhere. We were just lucky nobody ever got hurt, probably because most of the lines were 16¡¯ overhead and the pieces lost a lot of the force by the time they went down to shop level.
Since then I won¡¯t plumb with anything but copper. It is or at least was at that time, against code to use anything less than schedule 80, and it had to be the gray industrial stuff. We checked at the time and although it was ¡°legal¡±, I sure wouldn¡¯t do it again.
A lot of people I know use Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 PVC pipe to plumb their air lines. A friend/neighbor uses Schedule 80 in his automotive repair shop. He installed it over 10 years ago. He has two 60 gallon compressors operating in tandem providing air for ? 3-4 mechanics working simultaneously. They are in there wrenching 8-10 hours a day,5-6 days a week. ?Roland Johnson wrote an article in Fine Woodworking a number of years ago warning against PVC. He thought it could explode if you hit it sharply with something. I guess it's possible, but I have 3/4" Schedule 40 in my shop and feel completely safe with it. Take that last statement for what it's worth. I haven't seen any proof one way or another. I'm no expert. PVC, hung with conduit hangers. Quick, cheap and easy.
?You can use ¡°Sharkbite¡± fittings on copper lines. The do have the stainless grippers, but you can slide a tool (I usually use an open end wrench the right size) to un-compress the bite portion and slip the pipe and fitting apart. It is important to properly deburr the pipe inside and out so it doesn¡¯t cut the o-rings, but if done right, they don¡¯t leak.?
I have some in household water applications that have been in place for many years now with no leaks, and I used a few in spots in my current shop for the air lines. I tend to solder segments of the airlines together on the ground, then lift them in place and assemble with a sharkbite. Back when I did it, about 7 years ago on this shop, the fittings were still rather pricey, but they have come way down.
A warning about that blue aluminium air pipe. There are many brands, but from what I've seen they all work similarly/the same. It's a quick system design, usually with plastic fittings and aluminium pipe. Joints are push fit and thread-tightened together, using rubber o-rings to complete a joint.?
This system is comparatively expensive and does NOT work. I have it, and hate it. No matter what I do, it leaks at the joints. I have been meticulous in preparing and cleaning joints. However, leaks persist. The plastic fitting can only be tightened "so much" which is sometimes not "enough". If the joint has any sideways pressure on it, it leaks. The joint is supposed to be reversible so it can be re-jigged and re-used. Nope! Sure, you can get a given joint apart, but there is a steel serrated washer inside which helps close the o-ring fit around the pipe as it is threaded tight. This serrated washer bites into the aluminium pipe surface. When taken apart, the pipe surface is "raunched" up and rendered useless without cutting off the chewed up end. Otherwise you get leaks. Even the plastic fittings can't be reused. Guaranteed to leak. I've found the fittings I have are single use only.?
This system is supposed to be quick. Which it is. It's supposed to be reusable and reconfigurable. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be leak proof. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be good value for money. NOT in my opinion!
Maybe some of you have had a very different experience with the blue stuff? ?I recall seeing this guy's install on YouTube - he's based in Belgium so not sure the brand of tube is even available here - does look like a neat and quick install?
|
We plumbed our machine shop with Schedule 80 1¡± PVC back in the early 80¡¯s when we built it. Biggest mistake we ever made. The lines from the compressor sitting outside started failing within 6 months, guess the UV made the PVC brittle. So we re-piped with steel pipe from the outside into the building and to the input side of the filter/regulator unit. Then over the next 10 years or so, it continuously failed and blew apart, starting closest to the compressor (we assumed heat in the air might have been the culprit) but gradually got to the point where we had failures throughout the shop.
Exploding PVC pipe or fittings is nothing to be nonchalant about, when they let go, you get a missiles of small plastic pieces headed somewhere. We were just lucky nobody ever got hurt, probably because most of the lines were 16¡¯ overhead and the pieces lost a lot of the force by the time they went down to shop level.
Since then I won¡¯t plumb with anything but copper. It is or at least was at that time, against code to use anything less than schedule 80, and it had to be the gray industrial stuff. We checked at the time and although it was ¡°legal¡±, I sure wouldn¡¯t do it again.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A lot of people I know use Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 PVC pipe to plumb their air lines. A friend/neighbor uses Schedule 80 in his automotive repair shop. He installed it over 10 years ago. He has two 60 gallon compressors operating in tandem providing air for ? 3-4 mechanics working simultaneously. They are in there wrenching 8-10 hours a day,5-6 days a week. ?Roland Johnson wrote an article in Fine Woodworking a number of years ago warning against PVC. He thought it could explode if you hit it sharply with something. I guess it's possible, but I have 3/4" Schedule 40 in my shop and feel completely safe with it. Take that last statement for what it's worth. I haven't seen any proof one way or another. I'm no expert. PVC, hung with conduit hangers. Quick, cheap and easy.
?You can use ¡°Sharkbite¡± fittings on copper lines. The do have the stainless grippers, but you can slide a tool (I usually use an open end wrench the right size) to un-compress the bite portion and slip the pipe and fitting apart. It is important to properly deburr the pipe inside and out so it doesn¡¯t cut the o-rings, but if done right, they don¡¯t leak.?
I have some in household water applications that have been in place for many years now with no leaks, and I used a few in spots in my current shop for the air lines. I tend to solder segments of the airlines together on the ground, then lift them in place and assemble with a sharkbite. Back when I did it, about 7 years ago on this shop, the fittings were still rather pricey, but they have come way down.
A warning about that blue aluminium air pipe. There are many brands, but from what I've seen they all work similarly/the same. It's a quick system design, usually with plastic fittings and aluminium pipe. Joints are push fit and thread-tightened together, using rubber o-rings to complete a joint.?
This system is comparatively expensive and does NOT work. I have it, and hate it. No matter what I do, it leaks at the joints. I have been meticulous in preparing and cleaning joints. However, leaks persist. The plastic fitting can only be tightened "so much" which is sometimes not "enough". If the joint has any sideways pressure on it, it leaks. The joint is supposed to be reversible so it can be re-jigged and re-used. Nope! Sure, you can get a given joint apart, but there is a steel serrated washer inside which helps close the o-ring fit around the pipe as it is threaded tight. This serrated washer bites into the aluminium pipe surface. When taken apart, the pipe surface is "raunched" up and rendered useless without cutting off the chewed up end. Otherwise you get leaks. Even the plastic fittings can't be reused. Guaranteed to leak. I've found the fittings I have are single use only.?
This system is supposed to be quick. Which it is. It's supposed to be reusable and reconfigurable. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be leak proof. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be good value for money. NOT in my opinion!
Maybe some of you have had a very different experience with the blue stuff? ?I recall seeing this guy's install on YouTube - he's based in Belgium so not sure the brand of tube is even available here - does look like a neat and quick install?
|
I am going plumb my new machine shop with salvaged from my sons different jobs PEX ?I use in my house and have the tools.? Stuff is supper easy to use and inexpensive .
Al kinds of info out there ,,, garage journal?
Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Jan 28, 2017, at 8:04 AM, George george954679@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
A lot of people I know use Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 PVC pipe to plumb their air lines. A friend/neighbor uses Schedule 80 in his automotive repair shop. He installed it over 10 years ago. He has two 60 gallon compressors operating in tandem providing air for ? 3-4 mechanics working simultaneously. They are in there wrenching 8-10 hours a day,5-6 days a week. ?Roland Johnson wrote an article in Fine Woodworking a number of years ago warning against PVC. He thought it could explode if you hit it sharply with something. I guess it's possible, but I have 3/4" Schedule 40 in my shop and feel completely safe with it. Take that last statement for what it's worth. I haven't seen any proof one way or another. I'm no expert. PVC, hung with conduit hangers. Quick, cheap and easy.
?
You can use ¡°Sharkbite¡± fittings on copper lines. The do have the stainless grippers, but you can slide a tool (I usually use an open end wrench the right size) to un-compress the bite portion and slip the pipe and fitting apart. It is important to properly deburr the pipe inside and out so it doesn¡¯t cut the o-rings, but if done right, they don¡¯t leak.?
I have some in household water applications that have been in place for many years now with no leaks, and I used a few in spots in my current shop for the air lines. I tend to solder segments of the airlines together on the ground, then lift them in place and assemble with a sharkbite. Back when I did it, about 7 years ago on this shop, the fittings were still rather pricey, but they have come way down.
A warning about that blue aluminium air pipe. There are many brands, but from what I've seen they all work similarly/the same. It's a quick system design, usually with plastic fittings and aluminium pipe. Joints are push fit and thread-tightened together, using rubber o-rings to complete a joint.?
This system is comparatively expensive and does NOT work. I have it, and hate it. No matter what I do, it leaks at the joints. I have been meticulous in preparing and cleaning joints. However, leaks persist. The plastic fitting can only be tightened "so much" which is sometimes not "enough". If the joint has any sideways pressure on it, it leaks. The joint is supposed to be reversible so it can be re-jigged and re-used. Nope! Sure, you can get a given joint apart, but there is a steel serrated washer inside which helps close the o-ring fit around the pipe as it is threaded tight. This serrated washer bites into the aluminium pipe surface. When taken apart, the pipe surface is "raunched" up and rendered useless without cutting off the chewed up end. Otherwise you get leaks. Even the plastic fittings can't be reused. Guaranteed to leak. I've found the fittings I have are single use only.?
This system is supposed to be quick. Which it is. It's supposed to be reusable and reconfigurable. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be leak proof. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be good value for money. NOT in my opinion!
Maybe some of you have had a very different experience with the blue stuff? ?I recall seeing this guy's install on YouTube - he's based in Belgium so not sure the brand of tube is even available here - does look like a neat and quick install?
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A lot of people I know use Schedule 40 or Schedule 80 PVC pipe to plumb their air lines. A friend/neighbor uses Schedule 80 in his automotive repair shop. He installed it over 10 years ago. He has two 60 gallon compressors operating in tandem providing air for ? 3-4 mechanics working simultaneously. They are in there wrenching 8-10 hours a day,5-6 days a week. ?Roland Johnson wrote an article in Fine Woodworking a number of years ago warning against PVC. He thought it could explode if you hit it sharply with something. I guess it's possible, but I have 3/4" Schedule 40 in my shop and feel completely safe with it. Take that last statement for what it's worth. I haven't seen any proof one way or another. I'm no expert. PVC, hung with conduit hangers. Quick, cheap and easy.
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On Jan 22, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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You can use ¡°Sharkbite¡± fittings on copper lines. The do have the stainless grippers, but you can slide a tool (I usually use an open end wrench the right size) to un-compress the bite portion and slip the pipe and fitting apart. It is important to properly deburr the pipe inside and out so it doesn¡¯t cut the o-rings, but if done right, they don¡¯t leak.?
I have some in household water applications that have been in place for many years now with no leaks, and I used a few in spots in my current shop for the air lines. I tend to solder segments of the airlines together on the ground, then lift them in place and assemble with a sharkbite. Back when I did it, about 7 years ago on this shop, the fittings were still rather pricey, but they have come way down.
A warning about that blue aluminium air pipe. There are many brands, but from what I've seen they all work similarly/the same. It's a quick system design, usually with plastic fittings and aluminium pipe. Joints are push fit and thread-tightened together, using rubber o-rings to complete a joint.?
This system is comparatively expensive and does NOT work. I have it, and hate it. No matter what I do, it leaks at the joints. I have been meticulous in preparing and cleaning joints. However, leaks persist. The plastic fitting can only be tightened "so much" which is sometimes not "enough". If the joint has any sideways pressure on it, it leaks. The joint is supposed to be reversible so it can be re-jigged and re-used. Nope! Sure, you can get a given joint apart, but there is a steel serrated washer inside which helps close the o-ring fit around the pipe as it is threaded tight. This serrated washer bites into the aluminium pipe surface. When taken apart, the pipe surface is "raunched" up and rendered useless without cutting off the chewed up end. Otherwise you get leaks. Even the plastic fittings can't be reused. Guaranteed to leak. I've found the fittings I have are single use only.?
This system is supposed to be quick. Which it is. It's supposed to be reusable and reconfigurable. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be leak proof. Which it is NOT. It is supposed to be good value for money. NOT in my opinion!
Maybe some of you have had a very different experience with the blue stuff? ?I recall seeing this guy's install on YouTube - he's based in Belgium so not sure the brand of tube is even available here - does look like a neat and quick install?
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That was great service, and glad you found the issue. Now you know that much more about your machine too.
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Brian and others -
I got the call-back from Brian at Felder, and he walked me through checking the low-voltage circuits. He very patiently explained how and why we were doing the various checks, and he took time to walk me through the wiring diagram. We were able to locate the red stop button for the shaper as being the culprit. He told me I had gotten a nice long service life out of my switches. I ordered a replacement and spares for the other switches that often go bad. It¡¯s already up and running again, so I¡¯m happy.?
I knew the issue would get resolved, eventually, but it¡¯s great that it was resolved so quickly. I appreciate this group, and I really appreciate Brian at Felder. It¡¯s easy to get upset when things go wrong, but I try to focus on learning something new. Felder Delaware deserves kudos for excellent technical support.
Thomas
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I was able to punch it a bunch of times to make it work. ?It¡¯s unlikely to work reliably, but I can just leave that switch alone and use the others to turn off the machine. ?I¡¯ll replace the bad switch as soon as I get the new one.
Thomas
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if you just ordered the new switch how is it that it's up and running?
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if you just ordered the new switch how is it that it's up and running?
Agree with Felder tech support being great.? Some companies will only help you on the phone if you purchased the equipment new from them but Felder seems to be willing to help any Felder owner.
Dave
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Brian and others -
I got the call-back from Brian at Felder, and he walked me through checking the low-voltage circuits. He very patiently explained how and why we were doing the various checks, and he took time to walk me through the wiring diagram. We were able to locate the red stop button for the shaper as being the culprit. He told me I had gotten a nice long service life out of my switches. I ordered a replacement and spares for the other switches that often go bad. It¡¯s already up and running again, so I¡¯m happy.
I knew the issue would get resolved, eventually, but it¡¯s great that it was resolved so quickly. I appreciate this group, and I really appreciate Brian at Felder. It¡¯s easy to get upset when things go wrong, but I try to focus on learning something new. Felder Delaware deserves kudos for excellent technical support.
Thomas
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Brian and others -
I got the call-back from Brian at Felder, and he walked me through checking the low-voltage circuits. He very patiently explained how and why we were doing the various checks, and he took time to walk me through the wiring diagram. We were able to locate the red stop button for the shaper as being the culprit. He told me I had gotten a nice long service life out of my switches. I ordered a replacement and spares for the other switches that often go bad. It¡¯s already up and running again, so I¡¯m happy.
I knew the issue would get resolved, eventually, but it¡¯s great that it was resolved so quickly. I appreciate this group, and I really appreciate Brian at Felder. It¡¯s easy to get upset when things go wrong, but I try to focus on learning something new. Felder Delaware deserves kudos for excellent technical support.
Thomas
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