Re: OT: Teknatools USA affiliate (maker of Nova drill presses) files for CH 11 reorganization
another option is Solberga gear driven drill presses
Dave Davies
Hi Tom,
PM 2820 looks like a great DP. Nova Voyager is in the same price range but viking is half the price so it fits my budget for an unplanned purchase.
Like you I am not thrilled with electronics but Nova has been out a while now and I am hoping they have worked out the kinks. I also receive 10 yr motor and 5 yr electronics extended warranty but one has to take the risk of whether it will be honored. ? Hi Imran,?
?
I just picked up a new drill press myself. I have a very small shop, so I wanted a drill press without the motor hanging off the back, which limited me to the Teknatool Voyager/Viking, the new Laguna, and Powermatic now offers a 15" and 20" drill press in the same category.?
?
I don't much care for the screens and electronics, so I was inclined against the Voyager, Viking, and the Laguna, leaving me to choose between the Powermatics. Powermatic is running a $500-off promotion on the 20" machine, so I opted to bump up to the larger machine().
?
Apparently Jet will be releasing a drill press with a screen to compete with the Voyager/Viking/Laguna, but again I don't want a screen so I wasn't inclined to wait for its release. ?
?
The Powermatic PM2820 and PM2815 machines utilize a brushed DC motor that runs through a geared two speed transmission, with speed controlled via the High/Low gear selector and a simple knob on the front ?of the machine.?
?
So far I've been quite happy with it. I realize there are certainly "better" machines out there, I just wanted something relatively simple, relatively compact, with minimal electronics.?
?
?
?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: OT: Teknatools USA affiliate (maker of Nova drill presses) files for CH 11 reorganization
Hi Tom,
PM 2820 looks like a great DP. Nova Voyager is in the same price range but viking is half the price so it fits my budget for an unplanned purchase.
Like you I am not thrilled with electronics but Nova has been out a while now and I am hoping they have worked out the kinks. I also receive 10 yr motor and 5 yr electronics extended warranty but one has to take the risk of whether it will be honored.
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 12:54?PM, Tom Gensmer via groups.io <tom@...> wrote: ? Hi Imran,?
?
I just picked up a new drill press myself. I have a very small shop, so I wanted a drill press without the motor hanging off the back, which limited me to the Teknatool Voyager/Viking, the new Laguna, and Powermatic now offers a 15" and 20" drill press in the same category.?
?
I don't much care for the screens and electronics, so I was inclined against the Voyager, Viking, and the Laguna, leaving me to choose between the Powermatics. Powermatic is running a $500-off promotion on the 20" machine, so I opted to bump up to the larger machine().
?
Apparently Jet will be releasing a drill press with a screen to compete with the Voyager/Viking/Laguna, but again I don't want a screen so I wasn't inclined to wait for its release. ?
?
The Powermatic PM2820 and PM2815 machines utilize a brushed DC motor that runs through a geared two speed transmission, with speed controlled via the High/Low gear selector and a simple knob on the front ?of the machine.?
?
So far I've been quite happy with it. I realize there are certainly "better" machines out there, I just wanted something relatively simple, relatively compact, with minimal electronics.?
?
?
?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Hi David,
This is an older post from you and it says something important related to 1100 vs 1300 outrigger in conjunction with 2500 slider. May be worth confirming if this is still true.
“A 2500mm sliding table is available on both the smaller and larger (“S”) chassis models. ?When the smaller chassis K700 is ordered with a 2500mm sliding table, the standard outrigger the 1100mm version, and it is my understanding that this combination will restrict table travel such that it can NOT cut a full 96” length when the outrigger is installed. ?To achieve a 96” travel, the 1300mm outrigger table must be specified.”
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 12:29?PM, ibsenafshar via groups.io <brian@...> wrote: ? “So my 2 cents is, go with the short stroke slider if you are fine using a track saw to break a sheet down before you make cuts on the KF. You can also make really good straight line rips with a track saw and a long track.”
?
Caveat: I may be the least experienced responder to your post so please take that into account.?
I also went from a Unisaw to a slider, in my case a Hammer C3-31 combo with a 1270 mm slider in a 12’ x 22’ garage bay size shop without a garage door opening. On the long side wall is a 6’ opening to a garage bay that normally has a vehicle parked in it and is organized to quickly convert to an assembly/track cutting/finishing workspace. I’ve built a couple long dining tables and a couple beds but avoid working with big sheets and when I do often ask the yard to rough slice them into more manageable sizes.
Going from a Delta to a Felder Hammer was heaven, a remarkable improvement, and may be enough of a step up to completely satisfy you. The lack of Start/Stop buttons on the left face is really annoying but it is easy daisy-chain low-voltage small gauge wiring to add a stop and a start button, the most difficult part of that trivial project is drilling the holes in the chassis. The combo machine was required for me to fit everything into my 12’ wide shop. There ways of organizing a combo machine and track saws to make moving or flipping from one to another faster and easier and adding additional stop/start buttons are is just one of several ways to speed up and smooth out operating these machines. ?It boils down, I think, to how often you will be cutting long rips and how much you mind using a track saw.
With a traditional saw you mostly have ripping and crosscutting in which every cut is guided by an opposing or adjacent plane, making furniture and similar projects on a slider is much more powerful as you can position and clamp the workpiece down to the slider in any orientation and quickly create components with non-parallel planes. That freedom is the value of the slider in addition to supporting and guiding sheet goods.
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Re: OT: Teknatools USA affiliate (maker of Nova drill presses) files for CH 11 reorganization
Hi Imran,?
?
I just picked up a new drill press myself. I have a very small shop, so I wanted a drill press without the motor hanging off the back, which limited me to the Teknatool Voyager/Viking, the new Laguna, and Powermatic now offers a 15" and 20" drill press in the same category.?
?
I don't much care for the screens and electronics, so I was inclined against the Voyager, Viking, and the Laguna, leaving me to choose between the Powermatics. Powermatic is running a $500-off promotion on the 20" machine, so I opted to bump up to the larger machine().
?
Apparently Jet will be releasing a drill press with a screen to compete with the Voyager/Viking/Laguna, but again I don't want a screen so I wasn't inclined to wait for its release. ?
?
The Powermatic PM2820 and PM2815 machines utilize a brushed DC motor that runs through a geared two speed transmission, with speed controlled via the High/Low gear selector and a simple knob on the front ?of the machine.?
?
So far I've been quite happy with it. I realize there are certainly "better" machines out there, I just wanted something relatively simple, relatively compact, with minimal electronics.?
?
?
?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
“So my 2 cents is, go with the short stroke slider if you are fine using a track saw to break a sheet down before you make cuts on the KF. You can also make really good straight line rips with a track saw and a long track.”
?
Caveat: I may be the least experienced responder to your post so please take that into account.?
I also went from a Unisaw to a slider, in my case a Hammer C3-31 combo with a 1270 mm slider in a 12’ x 22’ garage bay size shop without a garage door opening. On the long side wall is a 6’ opening to a garage bay that normally has a vehicle parked in it and is organized to quickly convert to an assembly/track cutting/finishing workspace. I’ve built a couple long dining tables and a couple beds but avoid working with big sheets and when I do often ask the yard to rough slice them into more manageable sizes.
Going from a Delta to a Felder Hammer was heaven, a remarkable improvement, and may be enough of a step up to completely satisfy you. The lack of Start/Stop buttons on the left face is really annoying but it is easy daisy-chain low-voltage small gauge wiring to add a stop and a start button, the most difficult part of that trivial project is drilling the holes in the chassis. The combo machine was required for me to fit everything into my 12’ wide shop. There ways of organizing a combo machine and track saws to make moving or flipping from one to another faster and easier and adding additional stop/start buttons are is just one of several ways to speed up and smooth out operating these machines. ?It boils down, I think, to how often you will be cutting long rips and how much you mind using a track saw.
With a traditional saw you mostly have ripping and crosscutting in which every cut is guided by an opposing or adjacent plane, making furniture and similar projects on a slider is much more powerful as you can position and clamp the workpiece down to the slider in any orientation and quickly create components with non-parallel planes. That freedom is the value of the slider in addition to supporting and guiding sheet goods.
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
And once again I forgot one more thing.?? The other day, I just happened across this video that shows a hands-on "feel" comparison of Hammer and Felder saw-type machines.? This could be helpful t you, Stan.
?
?
-Aaron Inami
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Thanks, David, for all the details on the different combinations of outrigger/fence and how they work.?? Follow up on your statement here:
?
"With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade."
?
This is absolutely true and this scenario did go through my mind while I was writing up my post.? My goal was to show how much room a machine would take up in one half of a 2-car garage (which is 10 feet wide)..?? Stan can absolutely crosscut the center of a 4x8 sheet of plywood on a K500 with the smaller 800mm rip area, but he will still need clearance around the machine for that 4 feet of plywood on the right side.? This means the machine will still have to be placed the same amount of distance away from the wall or any other machinery he has (bandsaw, miter saw, etc.).? On a K700 machine, this is also possible.? Though, if he purchases the overhead blade guard, then he will only get about 19-20" into the cut before the plywood runs into the blade guard support arm.
?
Another thing I was thinking about last night is the use of a DRO and shorter crosscut fences.? A new user to sliding table saws can definitely be unaware that the DRO is only good out to the initial cross-cut fence length.? The DRO would not be usable on any part of a fence extension.?? On my fence, the DRO only works out to 64" (shown below), even though the fence extension allows me to do a cut up to 103".? The fence extension is set using a sight-gauge.
?
So, a DRO on the 1300mm fence would only be usable up to about 50" (give or take, depending on how the DRO is mounted/created), even though you can get a fence extension that allows up to 2050mm.
?
-Aaron Inami
?
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Re: OT: Teknatools USA affiliate (maker of Nova drill presses) files for CH 11 reorganization
Hi Tom,
I was told the same by the Teknatools person I spoke with yesterday. FWIW, he said they received a large shipment of lathes etc recently. He also said that they will continue to honor the warranty. I am planning to keep my order with Grizzly, time will tell how it goes.
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 10:50?AM, Tom Gensmer via groups.io <tom@...> wrote: ? It is my understanding that Teknatool is reorganizing, and will no longer be selling through retailers (Woodcraft, Rockler, Grizzly, etc...), and in the future will be direct to consumer.?
?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: OT: Teknatools USA affiliate (maker of Nova drill presses) files for CH 11 reorganization
It is my understanding that Teknatool is reorganizing, and will no longer be selling through retailers (Woodcraft, Rockler, Grizzly, etc...), and in the future will be direct to consumer.?
?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Felder AD941 vs SCM Fs41ES
Aaron,
I have both but was referring to the Euro guard.? The pork chop guard is a piece of junk.
Steve
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Stan, I'm neither?a hobbyist, nor in a small shop but I can offer you the perspective of someone who is fortunate enough to have all of the configurations you are considering.?
Our shop is 40x100, a co-op space. We have 2 short stroke KF700's with the 80"" slider. One has the 1500 outrigger on all the time,?with the long crosscut fence. It's our favorite machine for cutting furniture parts, anything less than 48x48 or so. It's definitely the most used saw in the shop. KF number 2 is primarily set up as the shaper, no outrigger most of the time. It hangs on a?bracket on the right side of the machine. It's not that bad to take on and off. It's got the short fence on it with no outrigger, and it's a PITA. You don't want that.
Our large saw is a 11' stroke Panhans. All panel work happens there, as well as straight line ripping of solid lumber, veneers, crosscuts of 5" thick beams etc. I've never once used the rip fence on that machine for ripping, just a bump stop when making repeat cuts for cabinet parts. Ripping with the stop on the crosscut fence and a parallel stop is great and so safe in comparison. We also have a Sawstop, which is mostly for dado's and narrow rips.
So my 2 cents is, go with the short stroke slider if you are fine using a track saw to break a sheet down before you?make cuts on the KF. You can also make really good straight line rips with a track saw and a long track.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Thanks David for clarifying the outrigger options. I know one member who bought a used KF700 with 1100 outrigger and it did not have the 90 deg stops as shown in the pic below but he was able to add them by buying parts from Felder.
Based on your explanation even 1100 should offer good registrations.
Does the beefier xcut fence extrusion come with 1300 outrigger?
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 1:17?AM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? Here are some clarifications.
The KF500 utilizes the X-Roll sliding table, so the bolt-on items (outrigger tables, crosscut fences, butt-bar, edging shoe, clamps, etc) that apply to the KF700 also apply to the KF500.
According to current published specs, the following applies wrt the 500-series:
The longest sliding table available for the KF500 is 2050mm (81”)- if you need a longer slider, the KF700 is the right choice.? The KF500 standard machine does not come with an outrigger table and the crosscut fence supplied is the 1300mm version, but it attaches to the sliding table using the same components as the 1100mm short crosscut fence and thus as the same 90° registration challenges. ?The standard machine can be upgraded with the same outrigger tables and fences discussed below
The KF500 Professional comes standard with the 1100 outrigger table and the 1300mm crosscut fence as above, but the fence mounts to the 1100 outrigger table which does have a reliable 90° end-stop as shown below:
Either the standard or Professional KF500 can be configured with the 1300 outrigger table as an option provided the slider is at least 1300mm long. ?The 1300 outrigger table gives you the ability to add miter indexing, has a roller at the end for stock handling assistance, and has a more refined locking and 90° registration stop, but is heavier. ?The 1500 outrigger table is not available as an option on the KF500 since the outrigger support arm is too short to support the extra 200mm length of the 1500 outrigger table.
There is an option to extend the 1300mm crosscut fence with a telescoping extension, or you can configure the machine with the 2600mm crosscut fence which will adapt correctly to either the 1100 or 1300 outrigger. ?With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade.
The outrigger mobility cart is intended for use with the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables, and may or may not adapt to the 1100 outrigger table - you’d have to ask Felder at least twice to get an accurate confirmation on this. ?Assuming the outrigger mobility cart does not work with the 1100 outrigger table, then you would need to man-handle the outrigger table on/off the machine as a unit, most likely removing the crosscut fence first and storing that separately. ?With the 1300 outrigger table and the mobility cart, you can leave the crosscut fence attached to the outrigger and wheel the two away together as a unit.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 25, 2025, at 9:14?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:
Hi Stan,
?
As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
<garage_center_point.jpg>
?
Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
?
You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
?
Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
<garage_pulled_back.jpg><garage_forward.jpg>
?
On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
?
I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
?
I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
?
I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
?
-Aaron Inami
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Re: DRO on a shaper fence?
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 2:35?AM, jontathan samways via groups.io <jonathansamways@...> wrote: ? Imran, this one reference's off the slider. ? Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
Thanks Jonathan. Can you share some pics when you get a chance.
On Mar 24, 2025, at 3:21?AM, jontathan samways via <jonathansamways= [email protected]> wrote: ? Imran, I can confirm another 700 series fence with that annoying?small amount of slop. Spent many hours thinking how to introduce?a fixed DRO successfully?and haven't?come up with a fixed solution. My solution for now is a portable DRO fixed to a block/board, then referencing of the cast iron bed, repeatability is good.
Thanks Bryce. Good to know. Would be nice to not have to check square every time when using xcut fence for cross profiling. ? That's great Imran,
I did check my shaper hood at work today, and there is also some play in mine, so at least you needn't feel like you're the only one! :)?
Sounds like you're sorting it out though.?
Regards,
Bryce
--
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Hello all,
I'll try not to repeat most of the excellent points already made here, but I had similar considerations, so I wanted to share my experience—and add another voice encouraging you to go as big as you can within your budget and space constraints.
I'm also a hobbyist with a?small shop, roughly 17x22 ft. I initially looked at the Hammer K3 with a short slider—maybe even skipping the outrigger. But after visiting a shop running a K3, it didn’t feel as hefty as I’d hoped for the price. I ended up with a KF700 with 2500mm slider, 1300mm outrigger, and 800mm rip capacity. Of course, the Felder is significantly more expensive, but since I’d already crossed the threshold into serious money, the extra cost felt justified.?I also have a Hammer A3, which is a good machine overall, but when I use it, I'm reminded that it’s built to a price. That’s given me some extra validation that going with the Felder was the right call.
?
I did opt for the combo machine, and while I don’t regret having the capability, the changeover is more of a hassle than I hoped, mainly because the shaper hood is heavy and awkward to grab. I was aware of this going in, but still underestimated the impact it'd?have. The shaper is definitely sturdier and more precise, but I still default to my router table for smaller pieces, just because it’s faster to get going. The flip-up power feeder is also heavy and gets in the way when folded down. In hindsight, I think a better decision would have been to go with separate machines and replace the router table with a standalone shaper that has a permanently attached power feeder.
?
If I could go back, I’d push for as big a machine as I could fit—the S frame with a 2800mm slider, or even 3200mm and chop off a bit of the table. That extra 300mm may not seem like much, but as others have said, space needs to be left for clamping, and it's convenient to leave things like a Fritz & Franz jig mounted full time. For me, the main reason for having a long table is ripping longer boards. I try to avoid using the rip fence except as a bump stop,?because compared to using the sliding table it now feels unsafe and imprecise.?I do have to walk around the outrigger to move through the shop, but I don’t mind it, because it's become the most important machine in my workflow. For reference, the telescopic crosscut fence on the 1300 outrigger takes up about 187?cm from the blade when collapsed.
?
Another drawback of the 2500mm table?that I haven't seen mentioned is that it's not a single piece extrusion. The last ~35cm are a lighter-duty aluminum extension with a plastic tray/handle, and can't be clamped to, reducing the usable length further. Frankly, I was surprised by this, especially because the schematics I was sent showed a full 2500mm usable table length, with the tray as an add-on. It’s possible this is only an issue with the non-S frame, but it's something worth confirming.
?
I would also recommend?getting the S frame, which more fully supports the sliding table and has the on/off buttons in a more convenient location (on the front face parallel to the slider rather than under the slider). In my case, I was again worried about space, but the extra footprint is covered by the sliding table anyway. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could confirm this, but my sales rep also mentioned that the S is made from thicker sheet metal. I haven't felt that the frame would not be sturdy enough, but having more support at full extension would definitely give me more peace of mind.
?
As for the table width, I haven’t felt a strong need for the 1250mm chassis. For wide crosscuts, I just flip the rip fence out of the way. That said, one potential limitation is the overhead guard arm—since it attaches on the back left corner (viewed from the front), it limits the depth of crosscuts if the workpiece overhangs the table. Since the arm starts 358?mm from the arbor center, any overhanging workpiece will be limited to a maximum crosscut depth equal to that distance plus the blade’s projection.
?
I initially skipped the overhead guard due to the price but ended up ordering it later. The dust extraction is far superior, and it avoids the need to remove the guard and adjust the riving knife for non-through cuts. Another worthwhile option is the additional on/off buttons at the end of the slider. Unlike the overhead guard, those can’t be added after the fact.
?
Best of luck with your decision!
?
Best regards,
Mi?elis Vindavs
On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 11:27?AM David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote:
Stan,
?
The 1100 outrigger tables for the Hammer line is ?a totally different beast from the 1100/1300/1500 for the K500 and K700 series.? It’s much lighter weight and attaches to the Hammer sliding table and support arm differently.? The crosscut fence systems on the Hammer line include 900, 1300, and 2600 and these are unique to the Hammer brand.
?
WRT the KF500 and KF700, the 1500 outrigger table which I have weighs 89 pounds without the crosscut fence attached to it - just the outrigger itself.? My best guess is that the 1300 outrigger table weighs 75-80 pounds, and the 1100 outrigger more like 45-50 because is is made with smaller profile steel box elements to create the ladder-frame. ?
?
You might find the following series informative.? It more fully illustrates how the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables attach to the slider, and how they are removed using the mobility cart. ??
?
I know a couple of users who employed a hoist device for a while, but ultimately gave up on it because they weren’t comfortable with it hanging over their machine, and ultimately made a wall rack for both the table and the fence as separate items.? This is certainly common with the 1100 outrigger, but the 80-90 pound 1300/1500 is an ungainly thing to mover around by yourself, and the mobility cart is ideal. ?
?
?
The 1300 fence extrusion and flip stops may be
This makes a lot of sense and actually explains why the 1300mm Hammer fence shares the option code with the larger outrigger fence on Felders and not with the 1300mm fence.
?
Despite how heavy and bulky these accessories tend to be, I've yet to see anyone using a hoist-like approach to lift and store an outrigger out of the way (or the shaper/jointer fences, for that matter). Tried and discarded?
?
Stan
?
?
Sent with secure email.
?
On Tuesday, March 25th, 2025 at 10:17 PM, David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote:
Here are some clarifications.
?
The KF500 utilizes the X-Roll sliding table, so the bolt-on items (outrigger tables, crosscut fences, butt-bar, edging shoe, clamps, etc) that apply to the KF700 also apply to the KF500.
?
According to current published specs, the following applies wrt the 500-series:
?
The longest sliding table available for the KF500 is 2050mm (81”)- if you need a longer slider, the KF700 is the right choice.?
The KF500 standard machine does not come with an outrigger table and the crosscut fence supplied is the 1300mm version, but it attaches to the sliding table using the same components as the 1100mm short crosscut fence and thus as the same 90° registration challenges.? The standard machine can be upgraded with the same outrigger tables and fences discussed below
?
The KF500 Professional comes standard with the 1100 outrigger table and the 1300mm crosscut fence as above, but the fence mounts to the 1100 outrigger table which does have a reliable 90° end-stop as shown below:
<1100 outrigger.jpeg>
?
Either the standard or Professional KF500 can be configured with the 1300 outrigger table as an option provided the slider is at least 1300mm long.? The 1300 outrigger table gives you the ability to add miter indexing, has a roller at the end for stock handling assistance, and has a more refined locking and 90° registration stop, but is heavier.? The 1500 outrigger table is not available as an option on the KF500 since the outrigger support arm is too short to support the extra 200mm length of the 1500 outrigger table.
?
There is an option to extend the 1300mm crosscut fence with a telescoping extension, or you can configure the machine with the 2600mm crosscut fence which will adapt correctly to either the 1100 or 1300 outrigger.? With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade.
?
The outrigger mobility cart is intended for use with the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables, and may or may not adapt to the 1100 outrigger table - you’d have to ask Felder at least twice to get an accurate confirmation on this.? Assuming the outrigger mobility cart does not work with the 1100 outrigger table, then you would need to man-handle the outrigger table on/off the machine as a unit, most likely removing the crosscut fence first and storing that separately.? With the 1300 outrigger table and the mobility cart, you can leave the crosscut fence attached to the outrigger and wheel the two away together as a unit.
?
Hi Stan,
?
As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
<garage_center_point.jpg>
?
Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
?
You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
?
Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
<garage_pulled_back.jpg><garage_forward.jpg>
?
On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
?
I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
?
I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
?
I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
?
-Aaron Inami
?
?
|
Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Stan,
The 1100 outrigger tables for the Hammer line is ?a totally different beast from the 1100/1300/1500 for the K500 and K700 series. ?It’s much lighter weight and attaches to the Hammer sliding table and support arm differently. ?The crosscut fence systems on the Hammer line include 900, 1300, and 2600 and these are unique to the Hammer brand.
WRT the KF500 and KF700, the 1500 outrigger table which I have weighs 89 pounds without the crosscut fence attached to it - just the outrigger itself. ?My best guess is that the 1300 outrigger table weighs 75-80 pounds, and the 1100 outrigger more like 45-50 because is is made with smaller profile steel box elements to create the ladder-frame. ?
You might find the following series informative. ?It more fully illustrates how the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables attach to the slider, and how they are removed using the mobility cart. ??
I know a couple of users who employed a hoist device for a while, but ultimately gave up on it because they weren’t comfortable with it hanging over their machine, and ultimately made a wall rack for both the table and the fence as separate items. ?This is certainly common with the 1100 outrigger, but the 80-90 pound 1300/1500 is an ungainly thing to mover around by yourself, and the mobility cart is ideal. ?
The 1300 fence extrusion and flip stops may be
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 25, 2025, at 10:28?PM, Stan K via groups.io <4279427@...> wrote:
This makes a lot of sense and actually explains why the 1300mm Hammer fence shares the option code with the larger outrigger fence on Felders and not with the 1300mm fence.
Despite how heavy and bulky these accessories tend to be, I've yet to see anyone using a hoist-like approach to lift and store an outrigger out of the way (or the shaper/jointer fences, for that matter). Tried and discarded?
Stan
On Tuesday, March 25th, 2025 at 10:17 PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
Here are some clarifications.
The KF500 utilizes the X-Roll sliding table, so the bolt-on items (outrigger tables, crosscut fences, butt-bar, edging shoe, clamps, etc) that apply to the KF700 also apply to the KF500.
According to current published specs, the following applies wrt the 500-series:
The longest sliding table available for the KF500 is 2050mm (81”)- if you need a longer slider, the KF700 is the right choice.? The KF500 standard machine does not come with an outrigger table and the crosscut fence supplied is the 1300mm version, but it attaches to the sliding table using the same components as the 1100mm short crosscut fence and thus as the same 90° registration challenges. ?The standard machine can be upgraded with the same outrigger tables and fences discussed below
The KF500 Professional comes standard with the 1100 outrigger table and the 1300mm crosscut fence as above, but the fence mounts to the 1100 outrigger table which does have a reliable 90° end-stop as shown below: <1100 outrigger.jpeg>
Either the standard or Professional KF500 can be configured with the 1300 outrigger table as an option provided the slider is at least 1300mm long. ?The 1300 outrigger table gives you the ability to add miter indexing, has a roller at the end for stock handling assistance, and has a more refined locking and 90° registration stop, but is heavier. ?The 1500 outrigger table is not available as an option on the KF500 since the outrigger support arm is too short to support the extra 200mm length of the 1500 outrigger table.
There is an option to extend the 1300mm crosscut fence with a telescoping extension, or you can configure the machine with the 2600mm crosscut fence which will adapt correctly to either the 1100 or 1300 outrigger. ?With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade.
The outrigger mobility cart is intended for use with the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables, and may or may not adapt to the 1100 outrigger table - you’d have to ask Felder at least twice to get an accurate confirmation on this. ?Assuming the outrigger mobility cart does not work with the 1100 outrigger table, then you would need to man-handle the outrigger table on/off the machine as a unit, most likely removing the crosscut fence first and storing that separately. ?With the 1300 outrigger table and the mobility cart, you can leave the crosscut fence attached to the outrigger and wheel the two away together as a unit.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 25, 2025, at 9:14?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:
Hi Stan,
?
As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
<garage_center_point.jpg>
?
Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
?
You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
?
Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
<garage_pulled_back.jpg><garage_forward.jpg>
?
On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
?
I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
?
I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
?
I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
?
-Aaron Inami
|
Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
This makes a lot of sense and actually explains why the 1300mm Hammer fence shares the option code with the larger outrigger fence on Felders and not with the 1300mm fence.
Despite how heavy and bulky these accessories tend to be, I've yet to see anyone using a hoist-like approach to lift and store an outrigger out of the way (or the shaper/jointer fences, for that matter). Tried and discarded?
Stan
On Tuesday, March 25th, 2025 at 10:17 PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
Here are some clarifications.
The KF500 utilizes the X-Roll sliding table, so the bolt-on items (outrigger tables, crosscut fences, butt-bar, edging shoe, clamps, etc) that apply to the KF700 also apply to the KF500.
According to current published specs, the following applies wrt the 500-series:
The longest sliding table available for the KF500 is 2050mm (81”)- if you need a longer slider, the KF700 is the right choice.? The KF500 standard machine does not come with an outrigger table and the crosscut fence supplied is the 1300mm version, but it attaches to the sliding table using the same components as the 1100mm short crosscut fence and thus as the same 90° registration challenges. ?The standard machine can be upgraded with the same outrigger tables and fences discussed below
The KF500 Professional comes standard with the 1100 outrigger table and the 1300mm crosscut fence as above, but the fence mounts to the 1100 outrigger table which does have a reliable 90° end-stop as shown below:
Either the standard or Professional KF500 can be configured with the 1300 outrigger table as an option provided the slider is at least 1300mm long. ?The 1300 outrigger table gives you the ability to add miter indexing, has a roller at the end for stock handling assistance, and has a more refined locking and 90° registration stop, but is heavier. ?The 1500 outrigger table is not available as an option on the KF500 since the outrigger support arm is too short to support the extra 200mm length of the 1500 outrigger table.
There is an option to extend the 1300mm crosscut fence with a telescoping extension, or you can configure the machine with the 2600mm crosscut fence which will adapt correctly to either the 1100 or 1300 outrigger. ?With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade.
The outrigger mobility cart is intended for use with the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables, and may or may not adapt to the 1100 outrigger table - you’d have to ask Felder at least twice to get an accurate confirmation on this. ?Assuming the outrigger mobility cart does not work with the 1100 outrigger table, then you would need to man-handle the outrigger table on/off the machine as a unit, most likely removing the crosscut fence first and storing that separately. ?With the 1300 outrigger table and the mobility cart, you can leave the crosscut fence attached to the outrigger and wheel the two away together as a unit.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 25, 2025, at 9:14?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:
Hi Stan,
?
As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
<garage_center_point.jpg>
?
Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
?
You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
?
Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
<garage_pulled_back.jpg><garage_forward.jpg>
?
On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
?
I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
?
I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
?
I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
?
-Aaron Inami
|
Re: DRO on a shaper fence?
Imran, this one reference's off the slider. ? Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
Thanks Jonathan. Can you share some pics when you get a chance.
On Mar 24, 2025, at 3:21?AM, jontathan samways via <jonathansamways= [email protected]> wrote: ? Imran, I can confirm another 700 series fence with that annoying?small amount of slop. Spent many hours thinking how to introduce?a fixed DRO successfully?and haven't?come up with a fixed solution. My solution for now is a portable DRO fixed to a block/board, then referencing of the cast iron bed, repeatability is good.
Thanks Bryce. Good to know. Would be nice to not have to check square every time when using xcut fence for cross profiling. ? That's great Imran,
I did check my shaper hood at work today, and there is also some play in mine, so at least you needn't feel like you're the only one! :)?
Sounds like you're sorting it out though.?
Regards,
Bryce
--
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
|
Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Here are some clarifications.
The KF500 utilizes the X-Roll sliding table, so the bolt-on items (outrigger tables, crosscut fences, butt-bar, edging shoe, clamps, etc) that apply to the KF700 also apply to the KF500.
According to current published specs, the following applies wrt the 500-series:
The longest sliding table available for the KF500 is 2050mm (81”)- if you need a longer slider, the KF700 is the right choice.? The KF500 standard machine does not come with an outrigger table and the crosscut fence supplied is the 1300mm version, but it attaches to the sliding table using the same components as the 1100mm short crosscut fence and thus as the same 90° registration challenges. ?The standard machine can be upgraded with the same outrigger tables and fences discussed below
The KF500 Professional comes standard with the 1100 outrigger table and the 1300mm crosscut fence as above, but the fence mounts to the 1100 outrigger table which does have a reliable 90° end-stop as shown below:
Either the standard or Professional KF500 can be configured with the 1300 outrigger table as an option provided the slider is at least 1300mm long. ?The 1300 outrigger table gives you the ability to add miter indexing, has a roller at the end for stock handling assistance, and has a more refined locking and 90° registration stop, but is heavier. ?The 1500 outrigger table is not available as an option on the KF500 since the outrigger support arm is too short to support the extra 200mm length of the 1500 outrigger table.
There is an option to extend the 1300mm crosscut fence with a telescoping extension, or you can configure the machine with the 2600mm crosscut fence which will adapt correctly to either the 1100 or 1300 outrigger. ?With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade.
The outrigger mobility cart is intended for use with the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables, and may or may not adapt to the 1100 outrigger table - you’d have to ask Felder at least twice to get an accurate confirmation on this. ?Assuming the outrigger mobility cart does not work with the 1100 outrigger table, then you would need to man-handle the outrigger table on/off the machine as a unit, most likely removing the crosscut fence first and storing that separately. ?With the 1300 outrigger table and the mobility cart, you can leave the crosscut fence attached to the outrigger and wheel the two away together as a unit.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 25, 2025, at 9:14?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:
Hi Stan,
?
As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
<garage_center_point.jpg>
?
Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
?
You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
?
Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
<garage_pulled_back.jpg><garage_forward.jpg>
?
On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
?
I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
?
I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
?
I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
?
-Aaron Inami
|
Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Hi Stan,
?
As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
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Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
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You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
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Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
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On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
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I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
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I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
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I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
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-Aaron Inami
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Re: Feedback on the sliding saw selection
Hi Stan,
The outrigger glides along the length of the slider with unlocking of one kip lever. So you don’t need to retract the slider all the way to make a cut. On my 10’ slider, I routinely have the outrigger 4’ towards the infeed, akin to a 6’ slider. I can straight line rip over 5’ (leaving room for the infeed clamp) and Xcut pretty much everything. If I do a conventional rip and the long xcut fence is in the way of the offcut,
- I either move the outrigger farther back on the slider (towards outfeed) or
- push the slider along with my left hand as I make the cut. This when I need the slider to support the material being ripped or
- if doing a lot of it, just move the long xcut fence to the 45 deg angle position and push it as far away from blade as needed or
- if needed, completely remove the long xcut fence but the outrigger stays put
You will need to pull/retract the slider completely to change the blade though. This also requires the outrigger to be within 1 ft of the far (outfeed) end of the slider.
For my next point, it would help to share my shop setup. Here are 2 pics that show the shop from one side to the other. Saw sits next to the right side wall. Outrigger clears the vertical post (brown column) by 1/4”. Dual51 sits in the middle and KF700 sits along the left wall.
As I mentioned earlier, I made the mistake of buying the KF700 without the outrigger. So I got used to the short xcut fence. I wanted a longer slider and an outrigger so I bought K975 with 10’ slider. The outrigger completely blocks the saw lane so I have to walk around between the J/P and the KF700. Since I was used to the short xcut fence on KF700, my thought was to only use outrigger when absolutely needed. So I spent around $700 to outfit me with the short xcut fence on K975 including the 90 deg registration fix from David Best. I calibrated the entire machine and during this I learned the capability of the long xcut fence vs the short xcut fence. Needless to say, the short xcut fence rarely comes out.
I would suggest you get a slider that is as long as you think you can make work and get an outrigger. I am not certain about the difference between 1100 and 1300. I believe 1100 has 90 deg registration stop in middle rail of the outrigger (blue part in pic below). I believe 1300 has 90 deg registration towards the end of the outrigger (red circle in pic below), one on each side.
1500 has a beefier xcut fence, a roller ?and the registration is with what I call donuts (red circle pic below), one on each side of the outrigger.
If you are interested in used machines, it could take some time to find one. You should be prepared to travel to check the machine and handle crating and transportation. On a new machine, I recommend you get commissioning, I only have anecdotal info, probably adds $2K to $3K.?
Imran Malik
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On Mar 25, 2025, at 7:26?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ?
Hi Stan:
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You are thinking well, and I appreciate your openness to a lot of conflicting opinions given here. Respect.
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In answer to some of your follow-up questions/observations.
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20’ shop length is a key issue. My shop is 24’ and it comfortably fits a 3200mm slider. You are likely correct that a 3200mm table may not fit in your shop. David B. will have the size requirement committed to memory I’m pretty sure? And
David B., thanks for posting the photo of us. That was a good day!
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Yes the slider will completely dominate the space. I used to be hung up on that but it works for me. Regarding conventional ripping, awkwardness aside, I think you are (understandably) thinking about ripping as you have always done rather
than ripping on the slider. In reality, like me, you will probably rarely rip on the right side of the blade. Ripping on the left side, using clamps and parallel fence/s is safer and more accurate. There is more setup time, but not a lot more.
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That’s a great question to ask about whether anyone has downsized from a longer slider. I’m quite keen to hear any answers on that one. The closest I’m familiar with is that some choose to run multiple machines, either a slider and a conventional
saw, or two sliders one of which is a short-stroke.
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You are correct that the outrigger usually sits towards the far end of a slider to make more space for ripping. The outrigger is a spectacular thing – so much better than a mitre gauge on a conventional saw that it cannot really be compared.
You will not want to take off the outrigger and put it back on every time you want to park the convertible, and every time you want to make crosscuts. The outrigger is big and heavy. You ask whether you can still cut small stuff without the outrigger? Of course
you can. But the outrigger is quick and accurate for 90 degrees and angles. And the cross cut stops can be relied upon. And with digital (as I have) I simply don’t want to use anything else – my outrigger and large crosscut fence are used for crosscutting
long and short items. I use it 99% of the time.
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My shop is larger than yours but is absolutely crammed with machinery. I have to move the sliding table in order to walk from one side of my shop to another. I also have to walk around the end of my outrigger too. That sounds annoying –
except that the saw is such a hard-working and accurate machine in my shop that I do not resent having to walk around it.
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I think Mac once told us all to harden up – we complain too much about having to walk around our machinery! (I loved that advice Mac, thank you.)
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Hammers are nice machines. Plus it frees up money money for shaper tooling, Mac’s pneumatic clamps, Brian’s parallel fences, a power feeder, etc. I wish you well with your deliberations.
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Warm regards,
Lucky
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Dr David Luckensmeyer
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
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Thank you gentlemen, this is excellent feedback.
I suspected that the table length is a controversial topic and I did read the advice to buy the longest table one can fit. My shop is 20'x10' once I subtract the dead space taken
by cabinets. This is half of the garage; I like to keep the other half available for the car, but it can be temporarily encroached upon. I figured the outrigger can?overhang into that space. The ceilings are 9' but the overhead garage door reduces it by 18"
or so. It is not impossible to fit a large slider (I've seen it done with a comparable Minimax), but it will completely dominate the space and make navigating it kinda awkward. Worst case, the convertible can live on the driveway.
When observing people that have long sliders, I noticed several things. One, the crosscut fence is typically mounted on the very end of the slider, presumably to keep it free
for the long rips. In a small shop, the infeed will typically be against the garage door, making it impossible to use the crosscut without opening the door. Additionally, long carriage makes it awkward to use the rip fence. I thought I could avoid both issues
by limiting myself to a short stroke and ripping long boards in the traditional way.
Clearly the consensus is that I would be making an expensive mistake and I hear it loud and clear. This is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for. But let me try and exhaust
the short stroke avenue before I give up on it entirely. Anyone here who actually downsized from a long slider to a short stroke? Derek — seeing your setup is very helpful and the product you create is way over anything I would be able to produce on an unlimited
budget.
As for the type of work I tend to do, it's all over the place. It's hard to say where the hobby will take me, but on the spectrum proposed by Lucky I gravitate towards Krenov-style
furniture rather than dining tables.
Most of the last year was spent on house remodeling, so there was more panel work than I'd like — hence the itch for a scoring blade. Few doors as well.
Milling, assembling, and gluing them up completely monopolized the shop space even without a slider in the way.?Some of them were over 100" high, so I doubt a 8' slider would make a difference...?Jacques'
power-fed setup is definitely intriguing.
Outrigger is definitely on the list, but again, my bogey was set at 1100mm and Imran suggests 1500. Can it be off most of the time? Do I need to put it on for the tiniest of
crosscuts? Anything involving setup time will have me looking for shortcuts — it's a character flaw that I learned to accept. For the same reason, wheeling the tools around before I can start working would be a deal breaker.
All in all, I am finding new angles to think about it, and you all have my thanks. The used KF700S that I believe Imran has linked to would fit the bill, but the seller did not
reply to my inquiries. I think I might err on the lower side and try a B3, which may not scratch the same itch but will definitely give me a much better understanding and appreciation of the workflow.
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imran
Tom Gensmer
Jason Holtz
David P. Best