Hello all,
I'll try not to repeat most of the excellent points already made here, but I had similar considerations, so I wanted to share my experience—and add another voice encouraging you to go as big as you can within your budget and space constraints.
I'm also a hobbyist with a?small shop, roughly 17x22 ft. I initially looked at the Hammer K3 with a short slider—maybe even skipping the outrigger. But after visiting a shop running a K3, it didn’t feel as hefty as I’d hoped for the price. I ended up with a KF700 with 2500mm slider, 1300mm outrigger, and 800mm rip capacity. Of course, the Felder is significantly more expensive, but since I’d already crossed the threshold into serious money, the extra cost felt justified.?I also have a Hammer A3, which is a good machine overall, but when I use it, I'm reminded that it’s built to a price. That’s given me some extra validation that going with the Felder was the right call.
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I did opt for the combo machine, and while I don’t regret having the capability, the changeover is more of a hassle than I hoped, mainly because the shaper hood is heavy and awkward to grab. I was aware of this going in, but still underestimated the impact it'd?have. The shaper is definitely sturdier and more precise, but I still default to my router table for smaller pieces, just because it’s faster to get going. The flip-up power feeder is also heavy and gets in the way when folded down. In hindsight, I think a better decision would have been to go with separate machines and replace the router table with a standalone shaper that has a permanently attached power feeder.
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If I could go back, I’d push for as big a machine as I could fit—the S frame with a 2800mm slider, or even 3200mm and chop off a bit of the table. That extra 300mm may not seem like much, but as others have said, space needs to be left for clamping, and it's convenient to leave things like a Fritz & Franz jig mounted full time. For me, the main reason for having a long table is ripping longer boards. I try to avoid using the rip fence except as a bump stop,?because compared to using the sliding table it now feels unsafe and imprecise.?I do have to walk around the outrigger to move through the shop, but I don’t mind it, because it's become the most important machine in my workflow. For reference, the telescopic crosscut fence on the 1300 outrigger takes up about 187?cm from the blade when collapsed.
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Another drawback of the 2500mm table?that I haven't seen mentioned is that it's not a single piece extrusion. The last ~35cm are a lighter-duty aluminum extension with a plastic tray/handle, and can't be clamped to, reducing the usable length further. Frankly, I was surprised by this, especially because the schematics I was sent showed a full 2500mm usable table length, with the tray as an add-on. It’s possible this is only an issue with the non-S frame, but it's something worth confirming.
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I would also recommend?getting the S frame, which more fully supports the sliding table and has the on/off buttons in a more convenient location (on the front face parallel to the slider rather than under the slider). In my case, I was again worried about space, but the extra footprint is covered by the sliding table anyway. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could confirm this, but my sales rep also mentioned that the S is made from thicker sheet metal. I haven't felt that the frame would not be sturdy enough, but having more support at full extension would definitely give me more peace of mind.
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As for the table width, I haven’t felt a strong need for the 1250mm chassis. For wide crosscuts, I just flip the rip fence out of the way. That said, one potential limitation is the overhead guard arm—since it attaches on the back left corner (viewed from the front), it limits the depth of crosscuts if the workpiece overhangs the table. Since the arm starts 358?mm from the arbor center, any overhanging workpiece will be limited to a maximum crosscut depth equal to that distance plus the blade’s projection.
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I initially skipped the overhead guard due to the price but ended up ordering it later. The dust extraction is far superior, and it avoids the need to remove the guard and adjust the riving knife for non-through cuts. Another worthwhile option is the additional on/off buttons at the end of the slider. Unlike the overhead guard, those can’t be added after the fact.
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Best of luck with your decision!
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Best regards,
Mi?elis Vindavs
On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 11:27?AM David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote:
Stan,
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The 1100 outrigger tables for the Hammer line is ?a totally different beast from the 1100/1300/1500 for the K500 and K700 series.? It’s much lighter weight and attaches to the Hammer sliding table and support arm differently.? The crosscut fence systems on the Hammer line include 900, 1300, and 2600 and these are unique to the Hammer brand.
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WRT the KF500 and KF700, the 1500 outrigger table which I have weighs 89 pounds without the crosscut fence attached to it - just the outrigger itself.? My best guess is that the 1300 outrigger table weighs 75-80 pounds, and the 1100 outrigger more like 45-50 because is is made with smaller profile steel box elements to create the ladder-frame. ?
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You might find the following series informative.? It more fully illustrates how the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables attach to the slider, and how they are removed using the mobility cart. ??
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I know a couple of users who employed a hoist device for a while, but ultimately gave up on it because they weren’t comfortable with it hanging over their machine, and ultimately made a wall rack for both the table and the fence as separate items.? This is certainly common with the 1100 outrigger, but the 80-90 pound 1300/1500 is an ungainly thing to mover around by yourself, and the mobility cart is ideal. ?
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The 1300 fence extrusion and flip stops may be
This makes a lot of sense and actually explains why the 1300mm Hammer fence shares the option code with the larger outrigger fence on Felders and not with the 1300mm fence.
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Despite how heavy and bulky these accessories tend to be, I've yet to see anyone using a hoist-like approach to lift and store an outrigger out of the way (or the shaper/jointer fences, for that matter). Tried and discarded?
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Stan
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Sent with secure email.
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On Tuesday, March 25th, 2025 at 10:17 PM, David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote:
Here are some clarifications.
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The KF500 utilizes the X-Roll sliding table, so the bolt-on items (outrigger tables, crosscut fences, butt-bar, edging shoe, clamps, etc) that apply to the KF700 also apply to the KF500.
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According to current published specs, the following applies wrt the 500-series:
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The longest sliding table available for the KF500 is 2050mm (81”)- if you need a longer slider, the KF700 is the right choice.?
The KF500 standard machine does not come with an outrigger table and the crosscut fence supplied is the 1300mm version, but it attaches to the sliding table using the same components as the 1100mm short crosscut fence and thus as the same 90° registration challenges.? The standard machine can be upgraded with the same outrigger tables and fences discussed below
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The KF500 Professional comes standard with the 1100 outrigger table and the 1300mm crosscut fence as above, but the fence mounts to the 1100 outrigger table which does have a reliable 90° end-stop as shown below:
<1100 outrigger.jpeg>
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Either the standard or Professional KF500 can be configured with the 1300 outrigger table as an option provided the slider is at least 1300mm long.? The 1300 outrigger table gives you the ability to add miter indexing, has a roller at the end for stock handling assistance, and has a more refined locking and 90° registration stop, but is heavier.? The 1500 outrigger table is not available as an option on the KF500 since the outrigger support arm is too short to support the extra 200mm length of the 1500 outrigger table.
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There is an option to extend the 1300mm crosscut fence with a telescoping extension, or you can configure the machine with the 2600mm crosscut fence which will adapt correctly to either the 1100 or 1300 outrigger.? With the 1300 fence on the 1100 outrigger table, you can still crosscut to the center of a 4x8 panel even if the machine is limited to the 800mm rip fence size - saving you a lot of space in the shop. So, if you equip the machine with an outrigger table, there should be no need to buy the wider 1250mm chassis version since you can move your indexed cutting to the left of the blade.
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The outrigger mobility cart is intended for use with the 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables, and may or may not adapt to the 1100 outrigger table - you’d have to ask Felder at least twice to get an accurate confirmation on this.? Assuming the outrigger mobility cart does not work with the 1100 outrigger table, then you would need to man-handle the outrigger table on/off the machine as a unit, most likely removing the crosscut fence first and storing that separately.? With the 1300 outrigger table and the mobility cart, you can leave the crosscut fence attached to the outrigger and wheel the two away together as a unit.
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Hi Stan,
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As a reference, here is a picture of what my K700S unit looks like in my garage (which is exactly 20 x 20).? I have the 1500 outrigger and the full size 1250mm rip area.? The machine is 19" away from the wall to allow for other machinery and still gives me 4 feet of space on the right side of the blade for plywood sheets and other material (it's really important that you plan out how much space you will have to work with while other machinery and stuff sitting next to it).? You can see the center-line groove in the garage (that's the 10 foot mark).
<garage_center_point.jpg>
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Theoretically, I could move the saw about 5" closer to the wall and put on the 1300 outrigger (and still have 4 feet on the right side of the blade).?? At that point, the edge of the outrigger would be EXACTLY at the center-line groove.? You could get a car into the garage at that point, but it's VERY close.? I could have chosen the smaller 800mm rip area and saved another 19", but that only leaves you 2-1/2 feet on the right side of the blade.? If you can live with 2-1/2 feet on the right, this might be the configuration for you.?? Keep in mind that you still need space on the right side even if you don't rip.? For example, cutting down long boards (such as a 1" x 3" that is 8 feet long).? If your required cut size is 45", you are completely out of luck on the smaller 800mm rip area (which is only 31-1/2").
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You mentioned that you could remove the outrigger when you're not using it, but this is something that you DO NOT want to do all the time.? It's extremely heavy and a pain in the @$$ to get on and off.? I guess you could get the mobility cart, but it is a little time consuming (then you have to store the mobility cart somewhere).? However, the crosscut fence is easy to remove and store whenever you want.? I have the Lamb Toolworks cross-cut DRO on my unit.?? Like Netanel mentioned, if you get the Felder cross-cut DRO, you are also getting the Format4 cross-cut fence, which is beefier and heavier and longer (extends out to 126" or 10 feet).
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Here's what a 9 foot (2800mm) sliding table looks like in a 20x20 garage with 18" deep shelf storage on the back wall.? There's just enough space for me to squeeze around the end of the table when it's pulled all the way back.? In my configuration, I can actually make 5 foot long cuts without having to open the garage door (which can be beneficial on hot summer days).? I just open the garage if I need to make a longer cut.? A 10 foot slider would have just been a bit too much.
<garage_pulled_back.jpg><garage_forward.jpg>
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On the "pulled back" photo above, I circled in yellow the stop-point for the cross-cut fence.? This is standard on the 1500 (and should be on the 1300, because I know both of these also have the roller on the edge for heavy material).?? This is what allows you to quickly put the cross-cut fence back "square to the blade" when you move it for an angle cut or take it off the table.
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I have no idea if the 1100 outrigger supports this kind of thing.?? I do know the 1100 does NOT have the roller on the edge for easier loading of material.? I also cannot find any pictures of the 1100 outrigger, lol.
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I have definitely read many times on this forum that the short 1100 crosscut fence has problems with keeping square to the blade.?? This means that you'll have to manually re-align/calibrate the fence to be 90 perfectly square EVERY TIME you remove it or shift it around.??
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I know that any fence on the K700 series works fine (except for the 1100).? The lower K500 series has a 1300mm fence available and also the 1100 outrigger. ? Does anyone know if the 1300 fence also has squaring problems? ? Or is it just the 1100 fence??
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-Aaron Inami
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