Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
The engine DOES NOT have to come out in order to replace the timing belt and tensioner bearing.? ?In my Esprit S2, I could replace both the belt & bearing in 3.0 hours with the engine IN the Esprit.? ?My record in a front-engined Eclat is 45 minutes for the timing belt only.? ?In general, replacing the tensioner bearing adds about 15 minutes to the task.
According to Lotus' Flat Rate Labor Manual, the time to accomplish the following tasks is...
ADJUST Timing Belt Tension (including setting cam timing):
0.8 hr = Esprit S1,? ?or? ?1.1 hr = Esprit S2
REPLACE Timing Belt (including setting cam timing & tensioning):
2.8 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
REPLACE (plug & play) Timing Belt Tensioner (eccentric).
2.5 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
REPLACE (plug & play) Timing Belt Tensioner (semi-automatic).
3.0 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
ADD the following time to both of the above IF the tensioner bearing is replaced
0.3 hr?= Esprit S1 & S2
CHECK Valve Clearances:
1.1 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
ADJUST (ie, shim) Valve Clearances:
4.0 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
Remove & Replace Engine & Gearbox Ass'y:
9.0 hr = Esprit S1 & S2
My experience is that it takes about
3.5 hours to put the engine on the floor, and...
5.5 hours to install the engine.
9.0 billable hoiurs, and they have not yet accomplished one single thing that was on your work order.
My best advice... do NOT do business with that shop.? ?They're scamming you/ padding the bill.? ?Removing the engine first is only easier/ faster 'IF' you ignore the amount of time and effort required to remove & replace the engine.? ?In general, you (or the mechanic) CAN NOT save enough time doing the above tasks on the engine out of the car to offset the time and effort (grief, pain, etc) required to remove & replace the engine !!
What is the name and address of the shop that insists upon removing the engine first.? ?Every Lotus owner living near you should be aware.
Regards,
Tim Engel
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
If they aren’t sure what they’re doing then removing the engine is a straight forward but time consuming way to make sure they do the job right. Your paying extra for their desire to do it right but also for their ignorance in not knowing how to do it in the first place. That said, adding the fuel tanks and I would seriously consider removing the engine. With the engine out then all of the other engine service items do become easier while its out. ?The S1/S2 is much harder to work on than the later Turbo cars. The early chassis has horrible access to the front of the engine from underneath so seeing and reaching up in there is hard and and that adds to the desire to remove it so you can see what your doing but you can certainly do the belt in the car.?
I’d like to see the detailed estimate of what they’re going to do for $10k though. Is that just a shoot from the hip estimate or a thought out detailed estimate? Mostly it sounds like you should try someone else. For that money you could ship it to someone who really knows what they’re doing and still come out ahead.? Dave C
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On Jul 23, 2022, at 10:12 AM, Bill Galbraith <Lotus@...> wrote:
? Toaph, ? There is a video on my web site () that shows how to get the belt on. It is very doable with the engine in place. The shop manual tells you the steps to follow. This shop shouldn’t be trusted with the job, since they don’t know how to do it. $10k is absurd. ? If you look on SJ Sportscar’s web site, you will see that a “C” service, which includes the timing belt, is $1500, but also covers oil change, spark plugs, adjusting the valves, new gearbox oil, and brake fluid flush. Their shop rate is $66/hr, and they have 14 hours in there. Shop rates in this country are 2-3 times that, so adjust the amount accordingly, ? There are too many horror stories form Esprit owners where a shop undertakes something like this. They keep the car for a year or two, don’t finish the job, then you have to fight to get the car out of them, and find someone else to do the work. Save yourself the grief, They don’t really want the work, thus the high price, ir they have no idea what they are doing. ? Used to have a friend with a Ferrari Testarosa which required the engine to be removed for a timing belt change, every two years. It was $20k, but that was a huge job. Engine removal isn’t that hard in these cars, and definitely not $10k, and not needed for the timing belt. Now, if you are replacing fuel tanks, I understand that it is almost required, difficult to accomplish with them in place. ? Bill ? ? ? From: [email protected] <> On Behalf Of Toaph via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2022 9:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure? ? I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
Have done the timing belt in situ on my s2 a few times in my 18 years of ownership and that’s without a pit or lift.?
Does help to be limber though !
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
Toaph, ? There is a video on my web site () that shows how to get the belt on. It is very doable with the engine in place. The shop manual tells you the steps to follow. This shop shouldn’t be trusted with the job, since they don’t know how to do it. $10k is absurd. ? If you look on SJ Sportscar’s web site, you will see that a “C” service, which includes the timing belt, is $1500, but also covers oil change, spark plugs, adjusting the valves, new gearbox oil, and brake fluid flush. Their shop rate is $66/hr, and they have 14 hours in there. Shop rates in this country are 2-3 times that, so adjust the amount accordingly, ? There are too many horror stories form Esprit owners where a shop undertakes something like this. They keep the car for a year or two, don’t finish the job, then you have to fight to get the car out of them, and find someone else to do the work. Save yourself the grief, They don’t really want the work, thus the high price, ir they have no idea what they are doing. ? Used to have a friend with a Ferrari Testarosa which required the engine to be removed for a timing belt change, every two years. It was $20k, but that was a huge job. Engine removal isn’t that hard in these cars, and definitely not $10k, and not needed for the timing belt. Now, if you are replacing fuel tanks, I understand that it is almost required, difficult to accomplish with them in place. ? Bill ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <> On Behalf Of Toaph via groups.io Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2022 9:37 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure? ? I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
I have a G-body Turbo with a/c. Even on this car it can be done without pulling the engine.
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I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks
while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
-- Toaph
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
My mechanic also replace belt in situ. Put a blanket on the engine and did it with mirrors.?
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 10:16:50 AM AST, Murray Graham <murraygraham1961@...> wrote:
My mechanic was able to change the timing belt on my S2 without removing the motor - they used some mirrors to help see what they were doing. Sounds like they haven’t tried that.
On Jul 23, 2022, at 10:02 AM, Toaph via groups.io <toaph@...> wrote:
? I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
-- Toaph
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
Toaph, I changed the timing belt in my garage.? All the problems I had were directly related to my inexperience.? Bring the engine to TDC and double check the timing marks on the camshaft pulleys.? All three marks must line up.? Releasing the tensioner CORRECTLY and being sure it is released was my toughest problem.? New belt will slide on with just a small bit of pressure.? Removing the fuel tank IS a major job.? Lots of time there.? Don't think it is necessary to remove the engine to do it.? If you do remove the engine, have the top and bottom renewed while it's out.? I removed the head on my 907.? Had it rebuilt in Batavia.? Reinstalled it with guidance from Tim Engel.? Seems way too high but.........
Lyn
On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 10:02:14 AM EDT, Toaph via groups.io <toaph@...> wrote:
I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
-- Toaph
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Re: Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
My mechanic was able to change the timing belt on my S2 without removing the motor - they used some mirrors to help see what they were doing. Sounds like they haven’t tried that.
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On Jul 23, 2022, at 10:02 AM, Toaph via groups.io <toaph@...> wrote:
? I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
-- Toaph
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Is the timing belt an engine-out procedure?
I took my S1 to an experienced Euro shop for some maintenance items, not the least of which is a nice new timing belt.? They said it's an engine-out procedure, and with some additional things like fixing oil leaks and installing new gas tanks while the engine is out, the estimate came to $10,000.00.? I practically fainted on the spot.? I want to treat this car right, and I'm sick of fixing things one-by-one, but I hadn't planned on investing nearly that kind of money into this car.? Any thoughts?
-- Toaph
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Re: Camshafts and/or Pulleys for sale
Ian,
There may be another option...
As I also have an S4s with 910 engine which they make variable timing gears for, they might also make them for a 907 engine.? Tim E. would know.
--
Rich F
'79 JPS #040
'95 S4s ...SHF63000
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Camshafts and/or Pulleys for sale
Folks,
I have recently rebuilt my engine following what I now believe to have been an oil delivery problem to my exhaust camshaft.? I purchased a used cam carrier and a used camshaft to replace the failed ones but failed to notice my replacement camshaft was a "C" version while my original one was an "E" version.? As you all likely know (and I have now learned) they use different pulleys which are keyed to provide different MOP degrees.
I have at least three options to sort this out.? One is to obtain a replacement "E" camshaft and return everything to stock using my existing pulleys.? Two is to purchase a "red dot" pulley for the "C" camshaft and operate the engine with a mix of camshafts (Tim advises this is workable.)? Three is to purchase two "red dot" pulleys and convert the engine to full "C" camshaft spec (I actually already have two "C" camshafts.)
My question to the group is do any of you have any of these items (qty 1 "E" camshaft and/or qty 1 or 2 "red dot" pulleys) available for sale?
Thanks.
Ian Munro
JPS commemorative #32
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I do have a different brand spare in case I installed Dellortos.? Just need to know what PSI to use for the Strombergs.
--
Rich F
'79 JPS #040
'95 S4s ...SHF63000
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Rich,
I took my car for a serious test yesterday (two hours out and two
hours back).? My fuel pump worked flawlessly with no issues.? It
is probably just my imagination but it "sounded" more enthusiastic
to my ears than it had for years so I am hoping the fuel pump
issues are sorted for now.
Ian Munro
JPS Commemorative #32
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Re: Info on how to assemble sjs sportscar new radiator and shroud
SO i tookm my old radiator apart, and the stuyds are wleded to it. This new one has none , the new lwoe rbracket has the bolts for a bolt to go through the shroud but no bolts were provided, and it isnt mounted as the photos show. So its different than the orignal. Ill email Steve as well to see what he says. I figured someone has to have ordered a new aluminum rad from sjsportscars on here. or i hope X_X
------- Original Message -------
On Saturday, July 16th, 2022 at 5:55 PM, Bill Galbraith <Lotus@...> wrote:
I looked through my pictures, but didn’t see any great pictures showing the mounting tabs. I seem to remember that they were triangular at the top, and bolted to top of the radiator frame, and to the bottom of the frunk. The yellow thing is just a piece of padding that I was using to keep the radiator and condenser from backing together as I was installing them, as I lowered the car down onto the radiator. ?  ?
? ? ? ? In the attached picture, you can see ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Here, you can see the studs on the A/C condenser that stick through the lower valance, and the holes for the holes that hold the radiator in place. ? 
? I think I’ll be putting my car up in the air tomorrow. I don’t thin kI’ll be able to get any better pictures because the lower pan is in the way, but I’ll try. ? Bill ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <> On Behalf Of ZenHorizon via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2022 8:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] Info on how to assemble sjs sportscar new radiator and shroud ? Hey all, my radiator, shroud and parts are finally here and im stumped. So i have here my old radiator and shroud. A complete prepared by claudious radiaor/fan/shroud setup ( that didnt fit after buying, so now its sueless as the radiator was too long to fit under the car. Due to this i orderted a new radiator, shroud, and upper and lower mounting brackets as well as foam from sjssportscars. Sadly it has no assembly insctructions. Im using the old one as a templater. The shroud has holes has dimples you can see where to drill the new mounting holes so that s no issue. The issue I am having is how do you attatch the bottom bracket to the radiator itself. Its the same size as the bracket on the bottom of the radiator. The bottom bracket has 2 bolt holes so you can mount the radiator to the shroud and besides the top that mounts it to the car, this is all that holds it on. I cannot see how the bracket goes on. I assumed it would slide in but it appears it does not. Has anyone bought and installed or done one of these? photos for reference
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Re: Info on how to assemble sjs sportscar new radiator and shroud
I looked through my pictures, but didn’t see any great pictures showing the mounting tabs. I seem to remember that they were triangular at the top, and bolted to top of the radiator frame, and to the bottom of the frunk. The yellow thing is just a piece of padding that I was using to keep the radiator and condenser from backing together as I was installing them, as I lowered the car down onto the radiator. ?  ?
? ? ? ? In the attached picture, you can see ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Here, you can see the studs on the A/C condenser that stick through the lower valance, and the holes for the holes that hold the radiator in place. ? 
? I think I’ll be putting my car up in the air tomorrow. I don’t thin kI’ll be able to get any better pictures because the lower pan is in the way, but I’ll try. ? Bill ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <> On Behalf Of ZenHorizon via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2022 8:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] Info on how to assemble sjs sportscar new radiator and shroud ? Hey all, my radiator, shroud and parts are finally here and im stumped. So i have here my old radiator and shroud. A complete prepared by claudious radiaor/fan/shroud setup ( that didnt fit after buying, so now its sueless as the radiator was too long to fit under the car. Due to this i orderted a new radiator, shroud, and upper and lower mounting brackets as well as foam from sjssportscars. Sadly it has no assembly insctructions. Im using the old one as a templater. The shroud has holes has dimples you can see where to drill the new mounting holes so that s no issue. The issue I am having is how do you attatch the bottom bracket to the radiator itself. Its the same size as the bracket on the bottom of the radiator. The bottom bracket has 2 bolt holes so you can mount the radiator to the shroud and besides the top that mounts it to the car, this is all that holds it on. I cannot see how the bracket goes on. I assumed it would slide in but it appears it does not. Has anyone bought and installed or done one of these? photos for reference
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Info on how to assemble sjs sportscar new radiator and shroud
Hey all, my radiator, shroud and parts are finally here and im stumped. So i have here my old radiator and shroud. A complete prepared by claudious radiaor/fan/shroud setup ( that didnt fit after buying, so now its sueless as the radiator was too long to fit under the car. Due to this i orderted a new radiator, shroud, and upper and lower mounting brackets as well as foam from sjssportscars. Sadly it has no assembly insctructions. Im using the old one as a templater. The shroud has holes has dimples you can see where to drill the new mounting holes so that s no issue. The issue I am having is how do you attatch the bottom bracket to the radiator itself. Its the same size as the bracket on the bottom of the radiator. The bottom bracket has 2 bolt holes so you can mount the radiator to the shroud and besides the top that mounts it to the car, this is all that holds it on. I cannot see how the bracket goes on. I assumed it would slide in but it appears it does not. Has anyone bought and installed or done one of these? photos for reference
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Hi, I had the same and after the second time,It refused to work, ?I decided it would just be better to change the old pump anyway. Move on and forget about it. Anyway, If you do not have acces to SJ sportscars to buy a new SU, google SU AZX1308EN.? This is the right pump with electronic contacts instead of points and it is available from different sources. ? Geert Esprit S2.2 ?
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Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> Namens webdudeca via groups.io
Verzonden: vrijdag 15 juli 2022 3:22
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] 79 s2 fuel pump? Rich,
I am having the same problem with mine. I found some youtube videos showing how to service the points as others have described.? That seemed to work great until two weeks ago it failed on me again when it would not operate at all when I attempted to start the car.? When I pulled the pump I could get it to operate perfectly on the bench BUT when back in the car it would not operate.? Last week I adjusted the diaphragm as depicted in those same videos (thread the shaft into the points mechanism until it "just" operates and then back off by one full turn) and after re-installing in the car it filled the carbs and the motor started immediately.? I have been away so a proper test won't happen until this weekend but the early indications are that the pump is now functioning as it should.
Ian Munro
JPS Commemorative #32
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Rich,
I am having the same problem with mine. I found some youtube
videos showing how to service the points as others have
described.? That seemed to work great until two weeks ago it
failed on me again when it would not operate at all when I
attempted to start the car.? When I pulled the pump I could get it
to operate perfectly on the bench BUT when back in the car it
would not operate.? Last week I adjusted the diaphragm as depicted
in those same videos (thread the shaft into the points mechanism
until it "just" operates and then back off by one full turn) and
after re-installing in the car it filled the carbs and the motor
started immediately.? I have been away so a proper test won't
happen until this weekend but the early indications are that the
pump is now functioning as it should.
Ian Munro
JPS Commemorative #32
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Hi, In 2017 I got stranded with my 1980 Esprit S2.2 on my way to SPA Francorchamps. The original fuelpomp gave up. Ticking only helped fors ome minutes. Anyway, I changed the pump wit an original SU fuelpomp with electronics instead of points. I think this is the best solution. It is the SJ075L0001 from SJsportscars: greets Geert -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [email protected] < [email protected]> Namens Tim Engel Verzonden: donderdag 14 juli 2022 4:19 Aan: [email protected]Onderwerp: Re: [S1S2euroS3LotusEspritOwners] 79 s2 fuel pump The pump is driven by electrical contacts, much like breaker points in a distributor. Over time, they wear down, get oxidized/ burned due to arcing, etc. You should periodically service the points. At the very least, file tem flat and to a nice full face contact. Again, just like in a distributor. Eventually the points get so worn/ burned that you just replace them. On the small, cylindrical end of the pump, there's an end-cap that's held on with a wrap of tape. Remove it. The points are on the end of the pump body/frame. If you don't mind spending a buck, newer SU pumps are solid state... no points. Just make certain that you getone that has the same flow-rate and output pressure as the Esprit's OEM pump. Excess pressure can cause carb problems. Regards, Tim Engel 07/13/2022, 8:41PM, Rich Flowers, <richnpeg@...> wrote: I often have to hit fuel pump body to get it clicking again so I get car to start when sitting for long time. Is there some kind of maintenance I can perform to fix this?
--
Rich F
'79 JPS #040
'95 S4s ...SHF63000
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Bill Galbraith
pmapilot
ZenHorizon
