There may be an issue but Just a small point -?
What are your group settings? Perhaps you could temporarily disable reply to member (Private) option.
At least until another solution is found?
I assume that the members are choosing to reply to the group and not selecting Private (bottom right of the screen.)

Frances

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 06:00 am, Chris Jones wrote:

Now IMHO the above is misleading on two grounds; firstly it appears that it was sent by the individual Group itself (i.e. the owner or Moderators) when in fact it was not. I feel that the originator should be "开云体育 Management Team" or somesuch;

Obviously I can't be sure of Mark's thinking on this, but suspect that it shows as coming from the group to add a bit of authenticity, as well as someone to contact for assistance.? Keep in mind that when this happens, no email is sent to that address from any groups.io group in an effort to keep this site from being blacklisted.

secondly it reads Because your email service reported to us that you have marked one or more messages from wireless-set-[email protected] as spam when in fact this was simply not the case; it was the ISP (specifically aol) that marked the message as spam, not the member. Under those circumstances anyone receiving such a message would be perfectly entitled to treat it with the greatest of suspicion. It would be much better (again IMHO) if the sentence read something like

Because your Service Provider's email service reported to us that you have marked one or more messages from wireless-set-[email protected] has been marked as spam you have been automatically removed from the group. Please note that this "marking as spam" may have been done by your Service Provider and not by you. We suggest that you check your spam box as soon as possible to see if your Service Provider has diverted a perfectly legitimate message into it.

It's the actual Email Service Provider where they are being marked as spam, either by a filter or a user.? Many folks, including me, have an Internet Service Provider that is different from our ESP.? Because of that, I'd reword that part of the message as:

"Because your Email Service Provider reported to us that one or more messages from [GroupName]@groups.io has been marked as spam you have been automatically removed from the group.? Please note that this "marking as spam" may have been done by your Email Service Provider and not by you. We suggest that you check your spam box as soon as possible to see if your Email Service Provider has diverted legitimate messages into it."

Joining the beta group and posting this as a suggestion would get it in front of Mark where he would be more apt to change the wording of the message.

Duane
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Over the past few days it's come to my attention that when a group member with a Yahoo email address replies to a group message from another member, sometimes the reply message is being sent to the email address of the person who posted the original message instead of to the group's groups.io address. And then if the other person responds back, the response is going to the first person's private email address instead of to the the group.

Since the message has the original group Re: Topic subject line, the members aren't realizing right away that they are talking back and forth privately instead of through the group. Needless to say. this is causing some confusion!

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I have noticed that, for members with @yahoo.com email addresses, their address in groups.io emails appears as? "their_name@..." instead of? "their_name@..."

Is this problem with misdirected group mail from Yahoo email addresses known to the groups.io staff? If not, would someone please look into it?

If Yahoo hadn't already been falling apart I would have suspected that it is just Verizon's way of telling people to get lost. They did that with their DSL customers-- just let the infrastructure rot and keep jacking up the prices until people get tired of the constant problems and go elsewhere.

Drew

Many thanks for the "further and better particulars", including the betagroups.io links, which are very informative in showing that we are dealing with a well known problem to which there seems to be no immediately obvious solution.

I have also received a copy of the "dismemberment" email received by the person most recently affected. It reads as follows: (I have hidden his details.)

Chris,

That reads suspiciously like "why don't you (i.e. me!) write
something", which is fair enough; I don't much like "somebody /else/
should do something" attitudes myself!

Glad you understand. Since this is an all-volunteer effort the more people I can convince to volunteer some effort the better the result can be.

One snag I can see is that if this case is typical the member
concerned did not see the message that had been spuriously marked as
spam, and it is not impossible that the deletion notification was also
shunted into his spam box.

That's an unfortunate problem. I'm not sure what 开云体育 can do about it (other than encourage people not to use such email services).

开云体育 /knows/ that it is not originating spam, so why is it
allowing others (e.g. aol) to determine that it is?

"Allowing"? The member's email service makes that determination on its own - 开云体育 would love to be able to persuade them otherwise.

From my perspective (which I have to accept is less than complete) a
simple solution is to break the feedback loop and for 开云体育 to
ignore others marking messages as spam.

There seems to be an implied stick to the FBL contract: unsubscribe this user or we (the email service) will dump more/all email messages from your list service into our users' Spam folders. Or outright reject them. Doubtless it isn't as black and white as that. I more suspect that compliance is simply fed in as another factor in the email system's Spam/Ham discriminator function.

Unfortunately Mark's perspective is less than complete as well. I'm not too surprised - I can understand why email services might be wary about revealing details of how they determine which messages are spam.


(email)

Shal


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Shal; thanks for the prompt response.

P.S. A group started on March 15 has number 14400.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 05:37 am, Duane wrote:

Latest: visible groups - 5207,

envelope-from of each received message and digest contains 4 numbers like

digestbounce+66+801+22614+48621 @ groups.io

for GMF digest #801.
The second number is number of the message or digest.
The first number is the group number, including unlisted groups.

Perhaps some of the Yahoo people were absorbed directly into Verizon?
I hate to say anything bad about Verizon, but they *increased* my 50Mbps (ISP)
speed to 100Mbps (at no extra charge) and instead it dropped to 14-17Mbps.
It took almost a month to get back to around 47Mbps.
It is "prime time" here and I just measured 37Mbps, then 45.

I will admit, I did hit 100M for about ONE minute ONE day, but never
got above 54M before or since.
This is on many different devices and many different OSs and versions.
I've re-booted the router, etc and all the normal stuff...
One more example, I have a state of the art 8-core Android phone on WiFi
and just got 40Mbps on the 2.4G band.

bummer

Rick

Chris,

It is thus a common and (I assume) annoying problem, so is there any
likelihood of anything about it turning up in the "Help" section?

I can't speak to what turns up in the Help section (well, I could poke at Mark but he's got a lot on his plate). In the shorter term, an article in GMF's wiki would be a great idea.

If someone would write it. Doesn't have to be neat, it could even start as little more than a list of links to relevant message posts.

Even the warning notice to Mods that someone has left is misleading,
reading "/because they marked a message as spam/" when in fact the
member concerned had done nothing at all; the message has been marked
as spam somewhere along the route and the person concerned had /no/
knowledge of it.

If you can come up with better wording, the beta group would be a good place to put it in front of Mark. He's far more apt to copy/paste something well written than he is to try and write something from scratch.

If the "auto - deletion" policy is to remain in place can there at
least be some help in the "help" section?

The same is true of the Help pages, and that is the origin of the Help Page Mock-up in GMF's Wiki. If you/we write it, Mark might take it up.


The policy most likely will stay in place, for a time. That's because certain email services (AOL, Yahoo, and MSN among them) have created the whole FBL (Feedback Loop) mechanism for this purpose. It is beyond me why any of those email services (I'm looking at you, AOL) think it is a good idea to report a user when it was their own filter that put the list's message(s) into the Spam folder.

There is a replacement RFC (proposed standard) for a "One-click" unsubscribe feature to implemented cooperatively by email services and list services. So things may change. But I've a fear that the same benighted email services that build over-active FBLs will do something equivalently stupid in their implementation of one-click.

And yes I apologise if this reads like a bit of a rant, but the above
has been a cause for concern right from the outset.

No apology needed. Mark isn't here to be offended, and the rest of us have much the same concern.

Shal


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Frances,

Shal, can you add this to the Help or somehow save it? Make it a
sticky for awhile?

Thanks. I linked to it as a new item, "Reading messages on the web", in the Quick-Start Guide section of GMF's wiki.

There are likely other posts that deserve linkage from the wiki.

I've already taken the liberty of linking Steve's message to his Yahoo Group from the new page collecting those examples. That page and its companion for Welcome member notices I need to link from one of the Transfer pages. Generally the Transfer pages need some love and update to catch up with Mark's recent work and incorporating some of the advice that's been posted.
(hint, hint, to those with the gumption)

Shal


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I am a Moderator for the wireless-set-no19 Group, (as well as a member of other Groups) and we have been plagued by this problem since migrating from Yahoo just over 3 months ago. I have just signed up to this Forum after finding comments like There have been, like, hundreds of conversations about this here and There are several threads here recently about this very thing.

It is thus a common and (I assume) annoying problem, so is there any likelihood of anything about it turning up in the "Help" section? There is nothing to prewarn members or Moderators at all, and it was only following a surprise "dismemberment" from a long - standing and reliable member that we have been able to try to work out what has been going on. It has also revealed why some members thus affected have rejoined without any action on our part; Owners and Moderators have no clue about what processes are in place without delving into this Forum, and it is only by luck that a suitable thread was on the front page. How many threads are Mods expected to search in the hope of finding a relevant one? Even the warning notice to Mods that someone has left is misleading, reading "because they marked a message as spam" when in fact the member concerned had done nothing at all; the message has been marked as spam somewhere along the route and the person concerned had no knowledge of it.?

In today's instance the person concerned did not know that a message had been spam - boxed by his ISP until I contacted him, and had up to that point had avoided the "do you want to rejoin" link because of a deep distrust of uninvited links, which is entirely reasonable.?

If the "auto - deletion" policy is to remain in place can there at least be some help in the "help" section? If threads are common on this Forum then it ought to be obvious that it is a recurrent problem. ?

And yes I apologise if this reads like a bit of a rant, but the above has been a cause for concern right from the outset.

Chris

Arno,

I use LibreOffice if I must use HTML (my eMail client posts in plain
TXT only).
When I tried to attach it, it all looked weird, unreadable, see
attached. Had to open and save as DOC to attach.

You may have better luck if you have LibreOffice export it as PDF, then attach the PDF file. LibreOffice's document format, while open, is not widely supported. Even DOC is a proprietary format and not everyone has applications that can read it.

PDF (Portable Document Format) was originally proprietary to Adobe, but some years back they published it as a public standard. Since then it has been added to many applications; many modern browsers (Edge, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, ...) can open PDF files directly in a browser window without a separate application.

Shal


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Shal, can you add this to the Help or somehow save it? Make it a sticky for awhile?
Well done!

Frances

开云体育

Albert,

Can someone help me sort out how our members can read the list messages on the web and respond from there?? So far it seems one must use a mail client in order to be able to respond to the messages.?

What J said.

Also, each email from your group has some links. Here is an example of an individual email, with the links at the bottom (the links will be formatted differently if the message from your group is plain text, rather than formatted):


View/Reply Online brings you to that very message. Group Home brings you to the group's Home page. Your members can use either link to find your group's pages, and from there the Messages list.

Note: if the Privacy section of Settings page of your group has Visibility set to one of the private (not public) archive choices, then your members will have to log in to 开云体育 in order to access the Messages. In the upper right of a 开云体育 page they should see the Log In link:



As members of your group they already have an account, so they don't need to use the Sign Up form. They may not have a password for their account yet, and if that's the case the Log In form will give them a couple of alternatives:



Either highlighted link will send them an email message that will let them log in to the site. The don't have one yet? message will have a link that will bring them to their account page, where they can set/change their password. The Email me a link to log in message will have a link that brings them back to the page they started at.

Once logged in to the site they should be able to see its Messages page:



Members won't see the Admin button on the left, but they can use the buttons in the left column to view various pages within your group.

Shal


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