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One of many forgiveness lessons
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I was driving to work toady and remembered to turn this day over to the Holy Spirit.
A few minutes later my mind remembered a ramp that was built for my son who was in a wheelchair Then my mind switched to the emergency room table where I could see his body (he had just died) Then my eyes starting welling up with tears. Then it hit me .. wow, as soon as I asked the Holy Spirit to take over those thoughts came to mind. And I reacted to those thoughts so quickly, like remote. Then I remembered to Forgive. Wheewww .. this Forgiveness work is definitely a full time job :-) Peace |
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First, I want to thank everyone for their helpful comments to
date. I read all of them, and although I don't usually answer them individually, they mean a lot to me. My heart broke as I read the last one, for while the Course teaches us that "There is no order of difficulty in miracles. One is not harder or bigger than another" I think the most challenging forgiveness lesson for most of us is the death of a loved one. So far, the only ones very close to me who have made their transition are my parents, and I will not pretend that I can imagine what it is like for a mother to lose her son, although the Course teaches us that we can't really lose anyone. (Although you haven't told me your name, I assume from another one of your postings that you are a woman.) Among the many reasons your particular forgiveness lesson is so difficult is because of the way the ego throws up images to remind us terrible events in the manner you described, like with the ramp, the wheelchair and the emergency room. All I can say to you for sure is that we're all in the same illusory boat, and sometimes it seems like a pleasant enough dream, but then suddenly it's a nightmare. You sound as though you're doing an excellent job at forgiveness by virtue of the fact that you remember to do it, where most people don't even know how to do it, much less remember. So I send you my love and join with you, and remind you the Course says that minds joined with the Holy Spirit are invincible. Then, as forgiveness works its miracle, perhaps we'll realize that the love you have for your son, just as the love that I have for my parents, is still there; more real than ever, because love is all there is. Peace, Gary |
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Hello garyrrenard@...,
In reference to your comment: è So I send you my love and join with you, and? remind è you the Course says that minds joined with the Holy è Spirit are invincible. Then, as forgiveness works its è miracle,? perhaps we'll realize that the love you have for è your son, just as? the love that I have for my parents, is è still there; more real than? ever, because love is all è there is. Thank you Gary After these few years dealing with the Course, it just amazes me, the great lengths we go through to keep this ego thought sytem intact. They way I am able to compartmentalize and use the Course to validate what I am doing.? I have learned not to feel guility about it, because that the the trap, the quicksand.? Ahhhh but sometimes ... On one level I know this is a script ... then I go schizo and allow myself to experience and practically reenact the pain over and over and over again.? Right now I am crying ...? but at the same time I know it is a process and I have moments when I can see the payoff in this ... the insanity of it all. So thank you again for reminding me there is no order of difficulty in miracles. One statement that Helen made that I identify with so much "I know that this is the Truth, [I just need to believe it]."? (parapharasing) And through vigilant practice of Forgiveness ... I will believe? ... that is a guaranty.? :-) Peace Ossie Marie |
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Jeanette
开云体育Ossie wrote:
?
"After these few years dealing with the Course,
it just amazes me, the great lengths we go through to keep this ego thought
sytem intact."
?
Being an optimist, may I comment:
?
After all the years of practicing the Course I am amazed at my efforts in
wanting to know God.
?
I
only say this, because I find it essential, for me, to realize life is precious,
and the Holy Spirit implores me to see God in my World.
?
?
Jeanette
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mstreet
开云体育Jeanette wrote:
>>After all the years of practicing the Course I am amazed at my
efforts in wanting to know God. I only say
this, because I find it essential, for me, to realize life is precious, and the
Holy Spirit implores me to see God in my World.<<
?
Hi Jeanette:
?
I don't know if I have a different take on the Course or not, but to me
forgiveness is the only route back to where we never left.? And our true
life in God, has never ceased, even though we are dreaming of being separate
from Him.
?
In truth, we are not separate from God or from one another in mind. And as
far as I am concerned, what we call death, cannot separate us those we love.
Even though my own mother has been dead for over twenty years, yet she still
appears to me, every now and then,? in my dreams. And she has such a sweet
smile on her face, when she appears, that it makes me smile, whenever I think of
it.
?
Love Martha :-)
? |
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Hello jeanettejoy@...,
In reference to your comment: è After all the years of practicing the Course I am è amazed at my efforts in wanting to know è God. ========Original Message======== Subj: RE: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: One of many forgiveness lessons Date: 6/12/2003 6:09:04 PM Mountain Standard Time From: jeanettejoy@... Reply-to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... Sent from the Internet (Details) Ossie wrote: ? "After these few years dealing with the Course, it just amazes me, the great lengths we go through to keep this ego thought sytem intact." ? Being an optimist, may I comment: ? After all the years of practicing the Course I am amazed at my efforts in wanting to know God. ? I only say this, because I find it essential, for me, to realize life is precious, and the Holy Spirit implores me to see God in my World. ? Jeanette Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the . |
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Hello jeanettejoy@...,
In reference to your comment: è After all the years of practicing the Course I am è amazed at my efforts in wanting to know è God. That mindset does not work for me.? Most of my life I have been seeking God, or so I thought.? Tried this, tried that.? Then I stumble upon a thought system that says I really don't want to know God (then the lightbulbs went off).? I accepted a thought system that taught me to be fearful of him, and I have taken on a belief system (ego) that makes him a fearful, vendictive god, someone who wants sacrifice, has an attitude, moody? (loves you one minute? .. then turns his back the next) I could go on and on. At least with the Course I understand that God is none of those things .. And God is unchanging ... etc.? It is me who has to change.? But I am stubborn, used to things a certain way and I just find it fascinating how I am determined to do things my way before I finally come up with the thought .. there is a better way. But I am patient and I will get it .. that is God's guaranty. Peace |
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Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è I went to the 25th Anniversary of the Course's coming è out in June of 2001, in Anaheim. What most impressed è me was Judith talking about Bill Thetford, and how in è the last year of his life, he let all of his past grievances è go, and also made amends in some old relationships. I was there too and enjoyed Judith's discussion.? That was the first time I actually got to see Judith in person.? I am also attending a workshop and seminar in Atlanta that Ken and Gloria will be conducting at the end of this month.?? Hmmm a whole week ...ooooh ... this is going to be interesting.? LOL Ossie ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: One of many forgiveness lessons Date: 6/12/2003 9:05:50 PM Mountain Standard Time From: mastreet@... Reply-to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... Sent from the Internet (Details) >>I concur with what you wrote.<< ? Thanks Jeanette: ? I went to the 25th Anniversary of the Course's coming out in June of 2001, in Anaheim. What most impressed me was Judith talking about Bill Thetford, and how in the last year of his life, he let all of his past grievances go, and also made amends in some old relationships. When he was in college, he had a girl wearing his pin, (which was equivalent to being engaged.) And he never did let her know what had happened, or why he had jilted her. But in that last year, he found her living in California, and finally told her the truth. And experienced such a sense of peace after that. When Judith asked him "what about with Helen?" He said: "Helen came to me in a dream some time ago. She had on a flowing white dress and a tiera on her head. We both rushed to greet one another with such welcoming arms." When he awoke, he just knew that they had completely forgiven one another. And on his last day on earth, he was again staying with Judith. She was going shopping and asked if he wanted to come along. He declined, but danced around in glee, saying "I am free. I am free. I am free of all grievances." She had not gone far, when she noticed in her rear view mirror that he had collapsed. She came back. But he was gone. He had a major heart attack, and died with a smile on his lips. ? Peace Martha :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the . |
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mstreet
开云体育>>I concur with what you wrote.<<?
?
Thanks Jeanette:
?
I went to the 25th Anniversary of the Course's coming
out in June of 2001, in Anaheim. What most impressed me was Judith talking about
Bill Thetford, and how in the last year of his life, he let all of his past
grievances go, and also made amends in some old relationships.
?
When he was in college, he had a girl wearing his pin,
(which was equivalent to being engaged.) And he never did let her know what had
happened, or why he had jilted her. But in that last year, he found her living
in California, and finally told her the truth. And experienced such a sense of
peace after that.
?
When Judith asked him "what about with
Helen?"
?
He said: "Helen came to me in a dream some time
ago. She had on a flowing white dress and a tiera on her head. We both rushed to
greet one another with such welcoming arms."
?
When he awoke, he just knew that they had completely
forgiven one another. And on his last day on earth, he was again staying with
Judith. She was going shopping and asked if he wanted to come along. He
declined, but danced around in glee, saying "I am free. I am free. I am
free of all grievances."
?
She had not gone far, when she noticed in her rear view
mirror that he had collapsed. She came back. But he was gone. He had a major
heart attack, and died with a smile on his lips.
?
Peace Martha :-) |
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mstreet
开云体育>>That was the first
time I actually got to see Judith in person.<<
?
Me too.?
>>I am also attending a workshop and seminar in Atlanta that Ken and Gloria will be conducting at the end of this month.?? Hmmm a whole week ...ooooh ... this is going to be interesting.? LOL << ?
Hi Ossie:
?
I attended one they gave in
Seattle last year. I liked it that they are quite open to answering so many
questions from the audience. I noticed that Gloria seems to take on the role of
moderator in a sense, in that she doesn't allow others to start talking back to
other participants questions or responses. It kind of makes her look like the
heavy, but I imagine without some discipline, things could become quite chaotic.
She simply asks them to talk it over with each other, after the
meeting.
?
Ken just sort of glows. And
the two of them just beam at one another also.
?
They stayed in the same
hotel that we did. Two doors down from us, so we were able to talk to Ken
privately there, one day in front of the elevator. He is one of the most
peaceful and loving presence's that I have ever met.
Any way, I hope you too, enjoy the workshop. ?
Love Martha
:-) |
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Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è They stayed in the same hotel that we did. Two doors è down from us, so we were able to talk to Ken privately è there, one day in front of the elevator. He is one of the è most peaceful and loving presence's that I have ever è met.? Any way, I hope you too, enjoy the workshop. è Love Martha :-) ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [Disappearance_of_the_Universe] Re: One of many forgiveness lessons Date: 6/13/2003 1:42:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time From: mastreet@... Reply-to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... To: Disappearance_of_the_Universe@... Sent from the Internet (Details) >>That was the first time I actually got to see Judith in person.<< ? Me too.? >>I am also attending a workshop and seminar in Atlanta that Ken and Gloria will be conducting at the end of this month.?? Hmmm a whole week ...ooooh ... this is going to be interesting.? LOL << Hi Ossie: ? I attended one they gave in Seattle last year. I liked it that they are quite open to answering so many questions from the audience. I noticed that Gloria seems to take on the role of moderator in a sense, in that she doesn't allow others to start talking back to other participants questions or responses. It kind of makes her look like the heavy, but I imagine without some discipline, things could become quite chaotic. She simply asks them to talk it over with each other, after the meeting. ? Ken just sort of glows. And the two of them just beam at one another also. They stayed in the same hotel that we did. Two doors down from us, so we were able to talk to Ken privately there, one day in front of the elevator. He is one of the most peaceful and loving presence's that I have ever met. Any way, I hope you too, enjoy the workshop. Love Martha :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Disappearance_of_the_Universe-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the . |
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Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è Ken just sort of glows. And the two of them just beam è at one another also.? They stayed in the same hotel è that we did. Two doors down from us, so we were able è to talk to Ken privately there, one day in front of the è elevator. He is one of the most peaceful and loving è presence's that I have ever met.? Any way, I hope you è too, enjoy the workshop. I am laughing because you describe them so accurately.? I met them in 1989-90 and for almost two years it seems liked I lived at the Foundation in Roscoe.? I remember the first trip out there ... and for me that was an adventure, going on a bus for 3 hours (and I suffer from motion sickness) but I found a way.? Got there late and walked into the room and all I could see for the moment were all these white middle aged men and I said "oh my god, what have I gotten myself into now ... what am I doing here?" LOL (Something? some of us Black folks do ... some of us are very conscious of being the minority in situations, which is why I enjoyed being at Unity because there was such a mix of people)? LOL? But Ken stopped talking and said "Hello" and when I looked at him it was like I had known him all my life .. and I knew I was in the right place.? (Martha, it was during that time that I met Joe and if my memory serves me, I think he was working and living there) I used all my overtime pay and extra money to take the bus up there, infact I even applied for a position to work and live there .. but it not to be, I was supposed to move to Denver, CO. But it will be good to see them in action again, for it has been years. Thanks Martha |
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Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è I don't know about you, but sometimes I have found è myself resisting what Ken teaches, just like I resist è what the Course teaches too. I want a softer, easier è more positive type of approach to the Course. (lol) Ken is just on another level ... half the time I don't understand anything he is saying .... but there is a part of my mind that does and that is what I watch.? I just sit there and listen, [trying not to fall asleep], and then after a while watch the fireworks for my ego goes crazy.? Then there is a breakthrough but it seems to be happening to someone else .. and I am watching.? That is why staying for a week in going to be very interesting.? I went to the Foundation a couple of months after my son passed away and briefly spoke to Ken, and the one thing I walked away with is that I could not rush through this grief process, but he said I would know when I was making more of it than it really is ... and I understood what he meant.? I am at that point now (almost three years later) ... I see the pay off of having a son who has passed away ... for it makes me very special, oh boy the attention I can get ... but I don't want it any more ... After reading Gary's book it was clear I was ready to forgive ... so that is what I am working on now.? All those painful memories ... there are a lot of them ... just keep forgiving and remembering not to do it alone.? :-) So when I go to Atlanta and attend the classes, I will constantly forgive Ken, even though my real forgiveness lessons revolve around Gloria.. something about her irks me? LOL But I can laugh about it because I understand that is another form of resistance.? I am clear that on the level of the Mind, I already know the information? ... it is just blocked and the only thing that can unblock it is forgiveness I have tried other Course teachers and no one as of yet gets through like Ken does (with the exception of Joe's Listserv).? Ken does not hold punches ... he does not change the Course in any way? ... he is consistent and that is what my ego cannot deal with. Ken and the Course speaks on a an intellectual level and I have had a difficult time comprending the Course on that level even though listening to him is stimulating at the same time.? The Course is like listening to music ... I could not tell you really anything really about the music other that I love it ... enjoy listening for it speaks to my spirit. That is why I appreciate Gary's Book ... because the language that is spoken there is what I can clearly understand.? I don't have to figure out whether this is a level one or level two, am I making this real or dragging the HS down here to fix things, and at the same time I have not gotten the feeling that he is changing what the Course is saying, and that is the trap I see other teacher fall into.? Making this world or form real. I know one day, I am going to read the Course, or listen or Ken or Joe and everything shared will be clear and understandable (I am looking forward to that and I have a feeling it will happen in this lifetime) ...? but until then I still have a lot of undoing ... a lot of forgiveness lessons to do. Peace Ossie PS:? And the beauty of this Course is that when I work it ... my life is easier.? :-) |
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mstreet
开云体育>> (Martha, it was
during that time that I met Joe and if my memory serves me, I think he was
working and living there)<<
?
Hi
Ossie:
?
Yes, from what I understand
he spent three years there.
>>I used all my overtime pay and extra money to take the bus up there, infact I even applied for a position to work and live there...<< ?
I never did make it there.
But for me it was on opposite sides of the continent. But I did manage to see
Ken and Gloria in 1983, I think it was, when they came here to Vancouver,
Canada, to do a workshop together. And also I managed to buy all of their books
and tapes. And any one else's who wrote about the Course.
?
I don't know about you, but
sometimes I have found myself resisting what Ken teaches, just like I resist
what the Course teaches too. I want a softer, easier more positive type of
approach to the Course. (lol) Not to have to look at what is going on in my
mind, but just to have a nicer dream in the world. Even though it never did
bring me any lasting happiness or peace. So now I feel ready to be led out of
the dream. :-) At least that is easy to say, not always easy to
do.
?
Thanks Sheila for you post
that just came in. I love the poster idea...SHIFT happens.
?
~ Martha
:-) |
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Hello mastreet@...,
In reference to your comment: è That sounds like helpful advice. I myself find it difficult è responding to a person who has lost a child. My sister è in law, lost her daughter to cancer, and she seemed to è need to talk about her all the time. I think that that too è is part of the grieving process. She too has passed on è now, but I think that only another person who has gone è through it, can understand it. You know Martha, in Awaken from the Dream and in Gary's book they talk about the split off from Heaven, and at that moment when we realized what we had done ... we thought we destroyed God/heaven and at same experienced the overwhelming pain of being seemingly separated from the One. I remember how I felt when I read Awaken from the Dream thinking? ... I thought to myself "my goodness that is the way I have felt all my life," but accordingly to therapists,? I thought it was because my mother died when I was little.? :-) If you ever felt a glimpse of that pain, then you can understand the loss of a child, or understand when someone they have been with for many many years has transitioned.? The pain is undescribeable.? That is why the ego makes sure that it stays in the unconsciousness and when the pain surfaces makes sure that it is projected out side on something, someone or some event. The ego specialty is specialness as you stated earlier, but one thing I got really cleary from Gary's book (the way the symbols keep repeating it) and one of the first principals ...? "There is no order of difficulty in miracles"?? there is only one problem and thus only one solution .. etc., I was able to make the connection while reading the book that my son's death is no different then when I get pissed off when a car cuts me off.? It may not be my experience ... but I understand it and can say it and then I ask for help to make it my experience. It is very scary to according to the world "minimize" such an event.? But I have to or else I will never experience peace and one of the things my son emphasized to me was not to grieve too long, to move on with my life and I agreed with him.? But it was a lot more difficult than I had imagined.? No matter how much pain I may have experienced at any given moment I also knew this pain was just the tip of the iceberg and if I tried to experience any more without help I would go crazy.? There were moments I wanted to end this existence ... but after being exposed to the Course .. I just chuckle to myself? ... go where?? all I am going to do is carry this pain with me to another imaginary place ... I realize the insanity of it all ... and then I say HELP! And when I think that the pain that I went through is just glimpse of the pain of Sonship seemed to feel when the separation seemed to occur. All I can say is eeeuuuuuuuuweeeeee .. I have a ways to go. |
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mstreet
开云体育?
Ossie wrote:
>>Ken is just on another level ... half the time I don't understand anything he is saying ....<< ?
(LOL) I still find myself
falling asleep while listening to him on tapes. And sometimes I need to run it
over a few times before I seem to get it. Actually, I find that by writing down
what he is saying, from a tape recorder, helps me to digest each sentance very
slowly. (Which I apparantly need.)
>>I went to the Foundation a couple of months after my son passed away and briefly spoke to Ken, and the one thing I walked away with is that I could not rush through this grief process, but he said I would know when I was making more of it than it really is ... and I understood what he meant.? I am at that point now (almost three years later) ...<< ?
That sounds like helpful
advice. I myself find it difficult responding to a person who has lost a child.
My sister in law, lost her daughter to cancer, and she seemed to need to talk
about her all the time. I think that that too is part of the grieving process.
She too has passed on now, but I think that only another person who has gone
through it, can understand it.
>>I see the pay off of having a son who has passed away ... for it makes me very special, oh boy the attention I can get ... but I don't want it any more ... After reading Gary's book it was clear I was ready to forgive ... so that is what I am working on now.? All those painful memories ... there are a lot of them ... just keep forgiving and remembering not to do it alone.<< ?
Well... in the need for
specialness area, we all want that. Our ego's couldn't survive with out it.
Often when I give up in what seems to be one area of wanting
specialnesss, I seem to quickly find another. And like you say, I just need to
keep on forgiving myself for wanting it, and others for not giving it to me.
:-)
>>So when I go to Atlanta and attend the classes, I will constantly forgive Ken, even though my real forgiveness lessons revolve around Gloria.. something about her irks me.<< ?
I think it is helpful to
notice how much we are irked, by another, (at least for me) because only then do
I know what needs looking at with the Holy Spirit. My husband and I are perfect
learning partners, for each other in this.
>>Ken and the Course speaks on a an intellectual level and I have had a difficult time comprending the Course on that level even though listening to him is stimulating at the same time.? The Course is like listening to music ... I could not tell you really anything really about the music other that I love it ... enjoy listening for it speaks to my spirit.<< ?
I loved that analogy. I
feel that is the way I am learning about the Course. First on an intellectual
level, and then like a piece of music, it seems to become part of me.
>>That is why I appreciate Gary's Book ... because the language that is spoken there is what I can clearly understand.<< ?
Yes, I loved it too. It
spoke of the Course, in a way that I could understand, but was also, was well
written with a touch of mystery to it, that appealed to me.
>> And the beauty of this Course is that when I work it ... my life is easier.? :-)<< ?
Yes. And yes, again. It
works, when I work at doing it. Forgiving. Bringing my grievances to the Holy
Spirit to look at with me. An ongoing procedure I am thinking, until I am
completely free of all of them. I understand it can be done in one instant, but
then I seem to go back and forth. I guess when I truly want them
(my grievances) any more, (or the purpose they serve,) then I will be completely
free of them.? Meanwhile, I will just forgive myself for needing so much
time.
?
Peace, Martha
:-)
?
? |
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mstreet
开云体育Ossie
wrote:
>>It is very scary to according to the world "minimize" such an event.? But I have to or else I will never experience peace and one of the things my son emphasized to me was not to grieve too long, to move on with my life and I agreed with him.<<? ?
Sounds to me, as if your
son was wise beyond his years. A great teacher. Giving the gift of not to
holding on to the past, and wanting you to have that freedom also. Besides in
truth, love can never be lost. Which it seems he realized
also.
?
Peace, Martha
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