Locked
Re: Setting up signals in JMRI to MERG CBUS
#merg
Good morning Dave Sorry for the delay in replying, didn't get back until 0200 Friday. I have run through your modified panel. I modified the original startup files as can be seen here. I hope this is correct. With the above changes I tried the changes to the panel. Observations: SD2 and SD3 both have included unwanted signal aspects (Flashing Red & Yellow, Double Yellow) . The latter becomes apparent when SD3 is yellow - SD 2 becomes Double Yellow. I could not find a way of restricting these unwanted aspects The indivual heads of the Mast SD2 do not display. SD7-9 are the heads that communicate to the Software Node via the Turnout Table. For this reason to hardware gantry signals do not update the physial signals. Signalling follows the routing and, depending on the destination mast, displays the correct SD2 aspect. I could not find an entry for virtual Signal SD2 in the tables. I suspect I have an error in my loading of the startup files. Thanks again for your support.
|
Locked
Re: programing on MRC system error message programer in use
follow the link provided and download the .EXE file as it is the Windows version of JMRI 4.17.5 ...? Jenkins builds are one step before a JMRI Test Release.
Be aware that your Anti-VIrus app may flag the file as a potential malicious file. IF this happens tell the AV the file is safe.
Marc
|
I have a Gaugemaster (MRC) Prodigy 2 and what I did was to make a virtual ground using 2 diodes on the track output of the Prodigy, feeding into the then feed them into a 1k? resistor.? For the railsync signal which is required for the BDL 168s? as I was worried about the 15V output going into the 7v no 1 pin (White on a loconet cable) on loconet, I put another 1k resistor in the non return leg of the Prodigy. I now have a DCS 50 Zephyr running as a master for track detection and the Prodigy for loco control and the system works well. The link for the railsync is here?
and the virtual ground link is here.
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
Ken,
This whole discussion is my fault and the results of my laziness. Instead of doing it myself I wanted the easy way and have someone tell me the answers. It turned out for the better because it forced me to do it myself.
I have everything from the throttle to the Base station, the LCS devices as well as logic and protocol analyzer. That's how
I was able to see and verify what was what. I even captured the hex sequences on the knob rotation. With that I created
as design map in excel that lets me see whats needed. I learned NetBeans and its debug to see what Java is doing.
Now its just a matter of inserting the necessary code to carry out those instructions. My plan and next step is to build a GUI interface and run it parallel. If it compiles I'm done But the point of all Self Development. Which is why I'm happy with the way
it turned out.
Always think to the future and Always have a back out plan. Because any plan without a back out plan is called a suicide mission.? Thanks for the input
Inobu?
?
|
Howard,
I am assuming that the MRC Elite is the "command"? station that you?
use to control the trains also for controlling the turnouts.
The BDL168 needs a Loconet which you? have attached at PR4.? One of
the "rules" with a DCC system is that you should only have one DCC
command station.
If the PR4 is also a command station, it would be better that it not
be attached to this Loconet.? What is the purpose of the PR4 that is
attached to the Loconet??
The BDL168 when on a "stand-alone" Loconet (one without a command
station) will require the "rail-sync" signal from the command
station, in this case? your MRC Elite.
The BDL168 is the? only Digitrax accessory product that requires the
rail-sync signal.
Also, the BDL168 has the "pull-up" you are mentioning.? It is one of
the CV settings on the board? (check the BDL168 documentation for
the CV number).? If you are using more than one BDL168, only one of
them needs to have the pull-up? CV set.
I work on two layouts which are NCE with Stand-alone Loconet
implementations.? One is very similar to yours but we use an NCE
command station and it required connecting the rail-sync wire in
the Loconet cable to the rail-sync of the appropriate wire in the
NCE cable (serial bus or the cab bus?).? In the other
implementation, I use a RR-Circkits Watchman for block detection.
In this case rail-sync from the NCE command station is not needed or
required and this is entirely why I went with this implementation as
well as it was less expensive.? I tried the resistor / diode setup?
and blew the NCE command station.? It went back for repair.
Hope this helps you.
Marshall
On 10/25/2019 11:46 AM, Howard Witt
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am sure there will be a reference to this.? But
in what I read I am struggling to understand some of the
terminology.
I have an MRC elite with wireless connection on
Com Port 3 to my turnouts which are mega points. All good.
To enable Block detection I installed a Digitrax BDL168s Some
will have RX4s some wont.? ???On the Windows 10 PC I now have
a PR4? connected Com port 4 with Loco net?to the first DBL168.? (Only 1 connected to this at
this stage)
The BDL168 als needs a grnd wire which currently is not
connected to anything as there is no Ground on the MRC
systems.?
I did see a reference to grounding this to the feed lines via
a risitor and diode set ups. (I plan to do this next if that
is need to make it work)?
Locos run on the sections. so that part OK.?
To make Loconet feed bak to JMRI, is were I getting confused?
I am struggling with some of the terminology on some of the
documentation.? It suggests I need a terminator?? And the PR4
does not have it???
It also says I can set this up on the BDL but
only if you got a digitrax commend station??
Is there any additional
hardware I need?? Such as a Loco buffer to replace the PR4??
The PR4 has some buttons on but I can not find any
documentation relating to this so don't know if that's going
to need setting up??
Any thoughts. I am sure I am a long way
from getting this working, so any steps in that direction will
help.
|
Locked
Re: programing on MRC system error message programer in use
Being new to this what do I download from the Jenkins page there are a number of different items that I do not understand. I Thank you for your help in this matter.?
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
My view is that some of the things that may come from this and later LCC
will expand the flexibility of the throttle concept. My thought that
currently it only has one variable value (speed) is one limitation. Things
like brakes, intensity, volume, rotation, etc... these are all things that
might come around needing a second variable (knob on throttle). I don't know
if we'd conceive of a need for string input (voice announcements?) and
multi-state things like radio buttons could ride as Booleans (which we do)
but not as clean.
I think our basic design is flexible enough to gain some more features.
Finding examples that have them will really drive this. If we don't have
hardware to show the path, it is really hard to plot a good course to get
there.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
|
I am sure there will be a reference to this.? But in what I read I am struggling to understand some of the terminology.
I have an MRC elite with wireless connection on Com Port 3 to my turnouts which are mega points. All good.
To enable Block detection I installed a Digitrax BDL168s Some will have RX4s some wont.? ???On the Windows 10 PC I now have a PR4? connected Com port 4 with Loco net?to the first DBL168.? (Only 1 connected to this at this stage)
The BDL168 als needs a grnd wire which currently is not connected to anything as there is no Ground on the MRC systems.?
I did see a reference to grounding this to the feed lines via a risitor and diode set ups. (I plan to do this next if that is need to make it work)?
Locos run on the sections. so that part OK.?
To make Loconet feed bak to JMRI, is were I getting confused? I am struggling with some of the terminology on some of the documentation.? It suggests I need a terminator?? And the PR4 does not have it???
It also says I can set this up on the BDL but only if you got a digitrax commend station??
Is there any additional hardware I need?? Such as a Loco buffer to replace the PR4??
The PR4 has some buttons on but I can not find any documentation relating to this so don't know if that's going to need setting up??
Any thoughts. I am sure I am a long way from getting this working, so any steps in that direction will help.
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
Dave,
The users interface is the throttle. The throttle in JMRI is written for TMCC-1. The foundation is there, the coding needs to be
added to support the command structure of TMCC-2.
I have completed all the testing, it's just the point of coding now.
This is like facing a revolt where the masses are screaming No! We want half rations! and a faint voice yells quarter rations!
which erupts with the masses yelling Quarter Rations!
Inobu
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
Ken,
If you look back a few weeks ago? posted a link for the Lionels Hand Held throttle.?
Look at the addressing Function ---- Those buttons control the Parameter index in the 3 word command format.?
So the user will press different buttons that will create the command syntax. When the command word is completed the
command string is sent out. If the user does not complete the 3 word command nothing is send.
So to blow the horn, the ENG button is pushed setting up setOpCode F8, at that point the hand held will look for the address of the engine. The user will enter the ID. This TMCC ID will be appended to the command. Next the hand held will change the display from the digit pad to an icon pad. That icon pad will then allow the users to press the icon representing the command they wanted to execute. At that point the complete command is sent as the 9 hex code string. Note that the last hex value is a checksum that will be checked. That comment itself would be a trigger word as no checksum was written in TMCC-1.?
The JMRI Throttle needs to have those Parameter buttons in order to construct the command. As of right now the TMCC commands are relegated to the function keys which are predetermined. That limits the users ability to access the full complement of commands.
This whole bantering falls under the you don't know what you don't know. Every one thinks its ok because they don't know the full capabilities of TMCC-2.
TMCC-2 runs rule 17 where the lights dim when the engine takes off......That is why I used the ground light as example. Some people don't know you can access them or know they exists. Performing the simple task I persented would have reveal the short coming.??
Inobu
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
Forgive my intrusion into this discussion, but I appear to be missing something.
Take a look at the manual:
The controller has a lot of controls and includes a keypad that changes into different sets of icons which can trigger different features.
Since the JMRI Throttle is based on DCC practices, it cannot handle the complexity of TMCC2. I believe the real challenge of supporting TMCC2 is designing the user interface. Translating interface events into TMCC2 messages is probably trivial and is no different than translating JMRI throttle events into NCE/Digitrax/etc. commands.
Dave Sand
|
Charles, Here is the solution for Conrad in the example: <notch-sound> <notch>0</notch> <next-notch>1</next-notch> <prev-notch>0</prev-notch> <accel-limit>6</accel-limit> <decel-limit>0</decel-limit> <file>sounds/engine/Idle.wav</file> </notch-sound> <notch-sound> <notch>1</notch> <next-notch>2</next-notch> <prev-notch>0</prev-notch> <accel-limit>12</accel-limit> <decel-limit>6</decel-limit> <file>sounds/engine/FS0.wav</file> <accel-file>sounds/engine/FS0-FS1.wav</accel-file> <decel-file>sounds/engine/Idle.wav</decel-file> </notch-sound> What you (and others) see here is an excerpt from a config.xml file. The config.xml is a part of the Virtual Sound Decoder (VSD) file. The sound files and the license file are the other parts of a VSD file. The excerpt shows how notches for a Diesel locomotive sound are defined. Conrad's question was how to insert an idle sound. And I suggested to insert a notch 0. VSD takes the lowest notch number as the idle sound. The notch numbering is free but the notch numbers must be unique. Alternatively a renumbering would have been possible, i.e., insert a notch 1 and renumber the old notch 1 to notch 2 and so on. <next-notch> and <prev-notch> defines the sequence forwards and backwards. <accel-limit> and <decel-limit> defines speed thresholds. The loco speed is available as a value of 0-1. Speed multiplied by 100 gives the threshold value. <file>, <accel-file> and <decel-file> are references to the sound files in WAV format. Sorry, if my explanations were too detailed. But I wanted to take this opportunity to explain the VSD configuration in more detail using the example. Klaus Am 25.10.2019 um 05:12 schrieb Charles Meo:
Might I request that you that you post the solution for others to peruse. It is often a lot easier to work from an example than from a discussion of what's in it.
Just a thought...
Thank you,
Charles
|
Jim,
If you want a real challenge, I have an Atari 1024 with an IBM simulator box and hard drive interface. Max partition size is 1 whopping 20 Mb. It still works and I even have a drafting program called Drafix that I used to design my home's floor plan with. It has two monitors, one Hi res, Black and white, and one low res color for games and graphic art.
Somehow, I don't think even this great group will develop an interface for it.
Cheers, Nick Kulp
"I'm not a failure. I started at the bottom and I found it easily attainable. Life is too short to set unattainable goals"
- Nick Kulp
John:
I couldn't think of anything I could actually do with my Sinclair even
when it was new... even with extra RAM... The Heathkit H-8 was much
better...
An XP machine is fine for JMRI and the RR if that's what you have and a
reduced chance replacing it... I know of a couple in the circle of
MRRing friends.
And yes I still have my Sinclair...
Jim Albanowski
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
I¡¯m sorry you¡¯re frustrated by this. If you¡¯re done, you¡¯re done. No need to reply. But there are people who really do want to help you if they could just understand what you¡¯re trying to do. I very much understand that complex commands need to be sent over the line. I¡¯ve written lots of code to do that. What I don¡¯t understand is why you seem to require that the command itself be surfaced through the throttle. Hence the question about what you mean by ¡°formulate the command via key strokes" I can¡¯t learn what you mean by that by doing experiments with JMRI. I know what that part of JMRI does; you¡¯ll notice my name at the top of the files you¡¯re modifying. I¡¯m trying to understand what _you_ want it to do. Bob On Oct 25, 2019, at 8:05 AM, Inobu One via Groups.Io <one2beros@...> wrote:
Bob,
Part of understanding a problem is to reproduce that problem. I offered a scenario that would
allow you to see the issue and hand and you flatly refused. It would have taken you a minute to
accomplish yet you want me to explain in detail an issue you could clearly see youself if you just
made a few mouses clicks. I have used setOpCode which is used by new AbstractMRMessage instance.
This is the center stone of the issue, if that does not trigger something nothing will as it is the heart of the issue.
As a test engineer, my job was to help in the development of new products. This is reminiscence of those times.
So to insure that the deliverable would be within the guidelines of JMRI it is certainly achievable. Do I need TMCC 2 working.
Yes. Do I need it as part of the build no.
In regards to your "Next steps are up to you, I think." Its not up to me to convince you to open JMRI and run TMCC-2 commands.
That's up to you.
Because I know if JMRI would issued this command ......F8 5F 72 FB 5E C0 FB 5E B2
a Legacy engine with the TMCC ID of 47 would announce "Stillwell Ave,Coney Island"
I think I'm done with this discussion.
Inobu
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
On 10/25/2019 6:21 AM, Inobu One via
Groups.Io wrote:
Start up a TMCC
connection in simulation mode. Open the TMCC monitor and Send
TMCC command windows.
??? JMRI was started by (Bob) to program decoders in plain
English for DCC users back in the early days.? It has really
expanded since then.? But it's roots are so the average Model
Railroader can be a Model Railroad Engineer and not a software
Engineer.
??? Remember there are a lot of Model Railroads still using DC
(or AC)!
--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
|
Hi Bill,
Apologies for the delay in progressing this.
A fix has been merged into the core code, available for download from developer package release 3481
If you could confirm that this fixes the issue for you that would be great,
Steve
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
Inobu,
I think I'm seeing one of the fundamental differences in the user interface
vs the commands. Your statements make me think many of the commands have
predefined actions and that a loco may have more than one 'variable' value,
like the speed is one variable value, and for a self-propelled crane,
rotation would be another value. This is a concept I've been waiting to see
show up somewhere, multiple value dependent things in a single loco. In my
mind braking effort would be a second value example. Most current decoders
we have do braking with toggling one or more functions to step the amount of
braking. Really it could/should be a 0->100% braking value. Yes the current
DCC standards don't have that concept. You only have one variable and a
bunch of Boolean states to convent settings into the loco.
Does this sound like one of the major concept differences you are seeing
between how a common throttle and what a native TMCC2 throttle would have?
Like how many buttons or dials do those throttles have? An explanation of
that end of the physical interface might help us understand what might be
missing in our program version of a throttle.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org
|
It is definitely prototype that a locomotive might move, even move a train, in run 1. Depends on the locomotive. And it can do so with the locomotive brake applied. It will not happen with the train brake applied.
An EMD locomotive loads up gradually when the throttle is moved to Run 1 or above. Stopping a train is often done with the throttle in Run 1 to help keep the train stretched. At this point the load regular is full on and the amps and pull will increase significantly as the stop is made.
I remember one GP9 that, because of its load regulator adjustment, would run a train up to 15 or more miles per hour and then make transition while still in Run 1. BUT, this was highly unusual.
To be prototypical, have the decoder produce the idle speed sound in both Idle and Run 1, but only start moving the train in run 1
I would not worry about whether the locomotive is running light or is pulling a heavy train when setting it up to move in Run 1. It would be a complication to have to tell the throttle what train weight is to be simulated.
What bothers me much more is to have engine start-up and shutdown sounds play every time the train is started and stopped. Locomotives are not routinely shut down just because the train has stopped. If did this, I would add the Stop position to the throttle and make use of that.
Steve Bartlett
|
Locked
Re: TMCC2 Commands in JMRI
Bob,
Part of understanding a problem is to reproduce that problem. I offered a scenario that would
allow you to see the issue and hand and you flatly refused. It would have taken you a minute to
accomplish yet you want me to explain in detail an issue you could clearly see youself if you just?
made a few mouses clicks. I have used setOpCode which is used? by new AbstractMRMessage instance.
This is the center stone of the issue, if that does not trigger something nothing will as it is the heart of the issue.
As a test engineer, my job was to help in the development of new products. This is reminiscence of those times.
So to insure that the deliverable would be within the guidelines of JMRI it is certainly achievable. Do I need TMCC 2 working.
Yes. Do I need it as part of the build no.
In regards to your "Next steps are up to you, I think."? Its not up to me to convince you to open JMRI and run TMCC-2 commands.
That's up to you.?
Because I know if JMRI would issued this command ......F8 5F 72 FB 5E C0 FB 5E B2
a Legacy engine with the TMCC ID of 47 would announce "Stillwell Ave,Coney Island"
I think I'm done with this discussion.
Inobu?
|
Idle and Run 1 have the same (Idle) RPM. the engine does not rev up until Run 2. The motor might start turning in Run 1, depending on the load on the locomotive.
Personally, I set my models to creep off very slowly at speed step 1, but with motor sound still at Idle. A high momentum setting in the decoder will delay move-off. That's about the closest you can get within the limitations of typical decoders.
Stephen and Dave,
Thanks for the info.? This, plus a web search clairified a lot about notching.? And a cursory review of my university texts on DC motor excitation helped a bit (it's been years).
I now see why Digitrax's sound decoders have three different notch modes: auto, semi-auto and manual.? Too bad VSD does not incorporate manual notching.? One work around would be to have a separate, dummy, throttle that you would independently "notch".? ?Seems cumbersome.
Conrad
|
SwissChris
Ken Cameron
Howard Witt
Bob Jacobsen
conrad