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Locked Re: Panel Pro - looking for up to date Tutorial for CPE

 

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Dick
Thanks you for the EXCELLENT reply dated Dec 2nd it has opened my eyes to the differences in the different JMRI design systems. ?I agree with Alan B Pearce¡¯s comments ¡° it should be in FAQ¡± ? As a newby JMRI bless it is akin to drinking from a full bore fire hydrant !?

To your note it is apparent that I should be using (CPE ). Control Panel Editor?
My layout is quite small and caters around an interlocking controlled by a CTC machine. ?there are several back to back crossovers and a flat crossing with 4 90 degree diamonds, many of the signals are eye candy with of stage virtuals.
I have no room for ABS or long stretches of track.

Signal Masts are obviously the way to go ( thanks again for the explanation )

What I need now more than anything is a JMRI tutorial covering ?CPE & SML ?

BTW ?I have some of your SM LEDs ?( RR-CirKits ) the Colors are excellent?
Many thanks?
John Pearson?


On 3 Dec 2018, at 11:55, Alan B. Pearce <alan.b.pearce@...> wrote:

This needs to be in an FAQ somewhere. Thanks to Dick for a clear definition of the differences.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of dick bronson
Sent: 02 December 2018 23:47
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Panel Pro - Layout Editor - looking for up to date Tutorial

?

John,

I'll make some (many) comments based on my personal opinions.

a) Layout editor (LE) is a vector view of your layout. I.e. the toe bone connects to the foot bone, the foot bone, connects to the ankle bone, .... It is designed to document and edit the connectedness of the layout. It only allow for one definition of each chunk of the layout. (vector) As soon as you have two turnouts that operate as one (e.g. crossover) or two detectors that operate as one you need to fight the system to figure out how to defeat its basic nature. (typically by making an internal shadow to define the duplicate item) It was never designed to make a CTC panel drawing in the first place. Doing so is sort of like trying to use a CAD program to paint a landscape.

b) The Control Panel Editor (CPE) is designed to create a pictorial CTC machine (Control Panel) view of your layout. It consists of various icons and images that allow you to recreate either a classic or modern CTC panel with surprising fidelity. It neither knows nor cares how one image or icon connects to another. The disadvantage of that of course is that you need to manual define the items and how they fit together or what they control. The advantage of that is that it will not try to force you into its own way of doing things.

c) The Panel Editor (PE) is the original JMRI panel editor which has been superseded by the Control Panel Editor which has many new features and ease of use advantages over the original. PE should have been depreciated years ago, but JMRI seldom does that for anything.

d) Signal heads refers to the class of hardware that can only control a signal one set of lights at a time. Typically it controls R, Y, and G lamps.

e) Signal Masts refers to an entire signal, be it one head or many heads, 3 lights per head or 7, etc. Typically it operates by sending aspect messages, not individual light commands. However if your hardware doesn't understand aspects, then JMRI can create signal aspects out of multiple heads.

f) SSL stands for Simple Signal Logic. Think 'Simple' as in 'Simple minded', not simple as in 'Easy'. It does basic ABS on single track fairly well. However as soon as you add a crossover or anything more complex you need to cross your eyes and stand on one leg to figure out how to make it work correctly. (mostly done by adding invisible signals and calling them 'distant')

g) SML Signal Mast Logic. IMHO This is the way signal logic should always be done. It treats signaling as aspects (per the prototype). It calculates aspects as they relate to pairs of signals, i.e. the signal you are facing paired with the next signal along the path you will be taking. It has built in rules for a growing number of prototype railroads. This saves you a lot of research into how signaling should be done on your railroad. It takes the most complex trackage in its stride. For each signal pair you simply list the correct turnout positions along that route and list all the blocks between this signal and the next.

h) NEVER mix SSL and SML unless you enjoy cat fights and detective mysteries. They do not play at all nicely with one another and you will be left wondering just why in the world your signals behave the way they do.

i) Crossovers in CTC territory are two blocks. When calculating any block requirements always think about how many different trains can occupy any given area at the same time. That is the number of block detectors required. For single track it is one, unless the track is long, then it may be several so one train can follow another. For a single turnout it is one. For a crossover it is two, one on each side if they are passing. For a yard ladder it is ........ one. (unless you can switch two parts of the ladder at the same time somehow) Of course a yard ladder is not usually signaled, but it makes a nice example. <G>

Dick :)

._,_._,_
Locked Re: Operational concept for a single operator #operationspro

 

Hi Paul,

Fundamentally JMRI is setup to move a railcar once per session.??A person would?Build all the Trains at once then print out the Manifests and Switchlists for the Trains and Locations (the ones that have a Local Switch crew).? At the end of the session they would then Terminate all trains.? The program is then ready to start over again for the next session.?

You can move a car more than once during a session and some people do this by Building and Terminating trains in sequence as the session progresses (similar to what you are doing).? The "problem" they run into is that?1 person?is stuck at the computer doing this instead of having a throttle in hand running trains. I?achieve this a little differently.

For a little more insight into how I Build, Print,?and Terminate trains in JMRI_OPS to move a car multiple time during a session read through post #146888 and its associated messages.

Even more things to consider!
-Scott-
(aardtechus)
Locked Re: Operational concept for a single operator #operationspro

 

Hi Paul,

Sorry for talking so long to reply.? Sometimes work gets in the way of trains? :)

Looks like you took care of #1.

For #2 - yes, if you want the?next train to pick up the cars the previous train left.? Now if you don't, or maybe you have more Spurs at City-C than Train-B can handle then you can run a second train (Train-E) without terminating Train-B.?The program will just pick the cars not already assigned to Train-B and assign them to Train-E.? To do this, Build both trains at the same time, ?then?print?the Switchlist for City-C.? On the Switchlist?there will be?2 sets of cars to be picked up/dropped off;?1 set?for Train-B and 1 set for Train-E.

For #3 the Switch crew doesn't have to be "just in time".? When you print off the Manifest for Train-B and the Switchlist for City-C, you hand out the paper work. to the respective crews at the same time. The City-C switch crew just needs to have the pickups ready for Train-B by the time it arrives at City-C.? In Route-B for Train-B you will notice there is a "Time" column for each location.? If you put a "Departure Time" (look at lower right under Display)? for City-C in that column then that time will also show up on the Switchlist when printed.? The City-C switch crew will then know what time Train-B will be at City-C and will need?to have the cars ready for pickup by that time.? This part of JMRI_Ops works with the Timetable for your railroad.

More things to try
-Scott
(aardtechus)
Locked Re: Unable to launch JMRI version 4.12

 

Dave
Thanks - that fixed the problem.
Regards
Roger

On 04/12/18 4:59 AM, Dave Sand wrote:
Roger,

It is possible that the JMRI installer did not remove old versions of some components.

Try doing a clean install: Use the Windows Control Panel to remove any JMRI versions. Manually check C:\Program Files and C:\Program Files (x86) for residual JMRI directories and delete them. Your data is at C:\Users\<username>\JMRI. It will not be affected. A good backup is always recommended.

Dave Sand



On Dec 3, 2018, at 5:22 AM, rlloyd1941@... wrote:

I am unable to launch this latest version of JMRI Decoder Pro.
I downloaded the latest version and it seems to install OK. I have also installed the latest version of Java. I am running Windows 10 on a 64 bit system.
When I launch Decoder pro, I get the following error response.
"Unrecoverable error encountered.
This application will quit.

java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: javax.help.SwingHelpUtilities.setContentViewerUI(Ljava/lang/String:v
at apps.jui3.Apps3.initialiazerHelpSytem(Apps3.java:141
at apps.jui3.Apps3.<init>(Apps3.java98)
at apps.jui3.dp3.DecoderPro3.<init>(DecoderPro3.java:27)
at apps.jui3.dp3.DecoderPro3.main(DecoderPro3.java:96)"

So this seems like a Java problem. I had previously installed Decoder Pro version 4.6 and this worked OK. Can anyone help?
Roger Lloyd
Locked Re: infinite loop with logix

 

For what it might be worth, a trick that I have used is to insert a print command into a questionable Logix item. One example snippet, copied from the "Browse" feature of the Logix Table window, looks like:


  INITIALIZE_COLFAX_IHC1  Startup Colfax Signal Heads   
    [x]  R1  IF  NOT Sensor "Init all Colfax Signal Heads" state is "Sensor Active"   
             THEN   
               On Change, Execute Jython Command Jython Command print "Startup Colfax Now".   
               On Change To True, Run Script from file, preference:jython\SignalHeadFromSensors.py.   
               ...

Will print Into the "Script Output" window a message unique to that event. In this case, the relevant result looks like:

>>> print "Startup Colfax Now"
Startup Colfax Now

Please be advised that it has been a long time since I used this trick and a lot of cobwebs needed to be scraped off to recover the above example. In some cases the instructions to Execute Jython Command will cause the print, but I have not been able to figure out why some do not. It is not my intent to change the topic of this thread. A workaround was devised. The ambiguity has long since been forgotten.

Cliff in Baja SoCal
Locked Re: How to define a signal system in adding signal masts

 

Thanks Dave, I get it now.
Clay
Locked Re: How to define a signal system in adding signal masts

 

Clay,

The JMRI help system includes summaries of the signal systems. For Basic:

The generated SML results in ABS signaling. APB signaling can be implemented by adding Logix controlled direction (internal) sensors to the SML.


Dave Sand

On Dec 3, 2018, at 4:24 PM, Clay <claysmith44@...> wrote:

I model the L&N circa 1974, however when I look at all of the signal definitions there isn't one that I recognize for the L&N so I picked Basic Model Signals.
From them I'm not sure to choose in the next two windows. In mask type I think the chooses were single search light low signal, single search light high signal, double search light low signal, and double search light high signal. I don't know the differences here. I'm fairly adapt at SSL, however I think SML is more like what I want based on I like to operate without a dispatcher.

Using SML, does the logic recognize the direction of travel?

I tried reading the help files, but I could not find anything that addresses the above question. If there is something that I missed, please point me in the right direction.
Thanks.
Clay Smith
Hopkinsville KY
Locked Re: infinite loop with logix

 

Balazs,

I usually resort to going to a back rev of the panel or disabling different
Logix until find it. I've never found a quick method.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.com
www.syracusemodelrr.org
Locked How to define a signal system in adding signal masts

 

I model the L&N circa 1974, however when I look at all of the signal definitions there isn't one that I recognize for the L&N so I picked Basic Model Signals.
From them I'm not sure to choose in the next two windows. In mask type I think the chooses were single search light low signal, single search light high signal, double search light low signal, and double search light high signal. I don't know the differences here. I'm fairly adapt at SSL, however I think SML is more like what I want based on?I like to operate without a dispatcher.

Using SML, does the logic recognize the direction of travel?

I tried reading the help files, but I could not find anything that addresses the above question. If there is something that I missed, please point me in the right direction.
Thanks.
Clay Smith
Hopkinsville KY
Locked Re: infinite loop with logix

 

Balazs,

Since you can cause the loop by a couple of panel actions, start by setting any Logix with those panel items disabled. Once the loop no longer occurs, you can enable one Logix at a time and see when the problem appears. Once the Logix is identified, you can disable conditionals by unchecking the trigger checkbox for all of the variables.

The challenge is that it might not be a simple A-B, B-A.

Another possibility is too many trigger variables. The default is that all variables are defined as triggers. Most of the Logixs that I have created have only 1 to 2 trigger variables.

Good luck.


Dave Sand

On Dec 3, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Balazs Racz <balazs.racz@...> wrote:

Hi JMRI experts,

I have a panel file where two (or more) logix conditionals somehow ended up triggering each other in an infinite loop. This crashes JMRI (either out of memory or stack overflow). Maybe they are fighting against each other on the state of a sensor or something like that.
I can get to the crash with a few specific steps on a panel, so triggering the problem is easy. But how could I figure out which logic conditionals cause the infinite loop?

thanks,
Balazs

ps. How do i know it's an infinite loop? I managed to get a stacktrace and it is very very very long with every third or so entry being DefaultConditionalAction.something, then a sequence of property change listeners inbetween. The same sequence repeats as long as I could see.
Locked infinite loop with logix

 

Hi JMRI experts,

I have a panel file where two (or more) logix conditionals somehow ended up triggering each other in an infinite loop. This crashes JMRI (either out of memory or stack overflow). Maybe they are fighting against each other on the state of a sensor or something like that.
I can get to the crash with a few specific steps on a panel, so triggering the problem is easy. But how could I figure out which logic conditionals cause the infinite loop?

thanks,
Balazs

ps. How do i know it's an infinite loop? I managed to get a stacktrace and it is very very very long with every third or so entry being DefaultConditionalAction.something, then a sequence of property change listeners inbetween. The same sequence repeats as long as I could see.
Locked Re: Defining a Departure Track

 

I've defined all my tracks in JMRI (J), whether I want J to use them or not.? With the new "export locations" feature, it helps me keep an inventory of the tracks on the RR.

If I don't want J to use them, such as a lead which I will use for building/arrivals/departures, I will tell J that that track accepts NO car types (clear all), so J won't attempt to place anything there.? My crews then know that the particular piece of track is theirs to play with as needed.

For Chris' question: When you same "same staging location" I assume that you mean a J location with multiple tracks.? What you do is define each staging track and specify for each track the specific trains that may arrive and depart on that track.?
Locked Re: Massoth mobile decoder definition files

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Yes there are, but you are very unlikely to have one.

If a "Read Type from decoder" says?"Found mfg 123 (Massoth Electronic, GMBH) version 123; no such decoder defined.", and/or all CVs return a value of 123 and long address 15,227 it is 100% certain that you cannot communicate with the decoder and that one of two possibilities have happened:
1) Preferences->Defaults has Service Programmer (and possibly other items) set to Infernal.
2) Preferences->Connections has System Connection set to Simulator.

Possibility (1) is the most likely. It would most likely have occurred due to a previous failure to open a connection. If there is no alternative to Infernal, you currently have a problem with the connection to your DCC system and you need to resolve the connection problem before proceeding. If an alternative is available select that, restart JMRI and try again.

Warning, the Infernal problem can happen again in the future if you have any connection problems. See comments at:


--
Dave in Australia


On 3 Dec 2018, at 11:53 PM, Keith@... wrote:

hi there
is there a decoder pro definition file for massoth decoders
Locked Re: Layout Portability

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Robert,

See below:

On 4 Dec 2018, at 1:30 AM, "harr6817@..." <harr6817@...> wrote:

Tried to understand Dave's scripts... but I'm not a programmer so scripts are not of much use.

I didn't give you any scripts.

I gave you very clear instructions to follow, not scripts.

Instead, you did your own thing, made up your own instructions...


First off.. Connection Prefix is "L" for Digitrax on both computers.

Good.

I have modified both computers to have only the default settings by completely uninstalling 4.12, deleting all JMRI folders "everywhere" except registry and then reinstalling the program on both.

That wasn't necessary.

(I did keep my 'layout'.xml files and selected the c:\program files directory on the Win7 to keep that variable the same.)

That was a bad idea. Changing installation defaults is bound to get you into trouble later.

I already stated very clearly that ?the installation directory is irrelevant. How many times do I have to tell you before that sinks in!!!!

Uninstall JMRI on that machine using the Uninstall option provided in the Start Menu . Don't manually fiddle around deleting things.

Reinstall JMRI leaving every install option at defaults.

The log you have posted is much appreciated. It clearly indicates the problem is in your layout file, not the choice of directory names.

Please follow Bob's instructions to fix your layout file.

Dave in Australia
Locked Re: Operational concept for a single operator #operationspro

 

Ooops...my bad. I was not thinking clearly about spur visits. OpsPro will automatically include all the spurs at City-C thus Train-B will make the stop at City-C and then make a single "move" to leave while the City-C switcher makes all the car exchanges for Train-B at City-C.
Paul D
Locked Re: Operational concept for a single operator #operationspro

 

Scott....I like it but I have some questions...
1) When Train-B visits City-C, it seem like Train-B must include each City-C spur in the Train-B route to ensure that cars are placed properly in the OpsPro data base. Otherwise, OpsPro would lose track of where cars are located. I am assuming that this would be a spur visit by Train-B in theory only rather than physically while the City-C switcher (as a stand in for the Train-B loco) would be making the physical visit to the City-C spurs.
2) I am assuming that when multiple trains make pick up & drop off, they must make their visits in the same order they were built since the second train is assuming that all the first train exchanges were made before the second train arrived.?
3) It appears that your approach puts the City-C switcher in a "just-in-time" mode.? When Train-B arrives at City-C, the switcher operator must step into action and make all the spur visits while the Train-B "moves" as each switcher spur action is completed. When the switcher makes the final City-C move, Train-B is free to move to his next destination.

If I am correct on 1, 2 and 3, your suggestion is really good. It means fewer trains to build to get the same job done. It also means I do not need a bunch of sidings as a named location for Train-B to visit.

I can see where this approach will also help me in exchanging cars (via my 0-5-0 switcher) that are logically part of my layout but are physically in off-layout storage racks. I have a lot of off-layout spurs with industries that I need as a companion to some on-layout industries.

Thanks.
Paul D
Locked Re: Unable to launch JMRI version 4.12

 

Roger,

It is possible that the JMRI installer did not remove old versions of some components.

Try doing a clean install: Use the Windows Control Panel to remove any JMRI versions. Manually check C:\Program Files and C:\Program Files (x86) for residual JMRI directories and delete them. Your data is at C:\Users\<username>\JMRI. It will not be affected. A good backup is always recommended.

Dave Sand

On Dec 3, 2018, at 5:22 AM, rlloyd1941@... wrote:

I am unable to launch this latest version of JMRI Decoder Pro.
I downloaded the latest version and it seems to install OK. I have also installed the latest version of Java. I am running Windows 10 on a 64 bit system.
When I launch Decoder pro, I get the following error response.
"Unrecoverable error encountered.
This application will quit.

java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: javax.help.SwingHelpUtilities.setContentViewerUI(Ljava/lang/String:v
at apps.jui3.Apps3.initialiazerHelpSytem(Apps3.java:141
at apps.jui3.Apps3.<init>(Apps3.java98)
at apps.jui3.dp3.DecoderPro3.<init>(DecoderPro3.java:27)
at apps.jui3.dp3.DecoderPro3.main(DecoderPro3.java:96)"

So this seems like a Java problem. I had previously installed Decoder Pro version 4.6 and this worked OK. Can anyone help?
Roger Lloyd
Locked Re: Defining a Departure Track

 

Dan and Martin,


On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Dan Boudreau wrote:
Most would agree that you and your operators should decide which arrival and departure tracks to use rather than the program.?
... unless the A/D tracks are staging.? I have three westbound passenger trains all departing from the same staging Location, with similar consists and train lengths.? I want to know that when I build 'Train 10,' the program selects the correct one.? Is there a way to do this, other than have it prompt for departure track??

Thanks in advance,
Chris
Locked Re: Connecting a JMRI throttle to Sound Decoder

 

Ok Klaus. Thanks. Mario
Locked Re: Packet Delays and Timeout - SPROG3 and JMRI 4.12

 

I have noticed that after a fresh start.. with or without reboot of Pi.. I have to switch track power off/on at least once before any throttle data is actually at the rails.. even though power is on at startup configuration.?

Thinking all this might be endemic to some of the other warnings and things we see with SPROG-Pi and SPROG-1. Our SPROG3''s might also be affected.


--
RockPro - San Diego, CA
Raspi2 B+,?SPROG3, LocoBuffer USB, BDL168 & 10 switches on a 4x8
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