Hi Klaus,

Thanks a lot for the swift reply !

Best Regards
P?r

Layout editor - connecting slips to turnouts #layouteditor

I am having great difficulty in connecting the above objects. How do I get the alignment of the turnout diverging route to match that of the slip? The angles of the diverging lines wrt their through routes is different.

Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands

#163997

Thomas,

On 17 Sep 2019, at 1:46 PM, Tom Cain <atsf93@...> wrote:

Where do I select Monitoring in JMRI?  Is it a drop down menu item?  In my turnouts table I see a ‘check box' called “show feedback information” but it did nothing.You're nearly there. That checkbox should add some extra columns to the table. The ones you are most interested are Feedback and Mode.

For each and every Turnout in the table, (in the MODE column) you need to select MONITORING.

As you do each one, the "Unknown" in the Feedback column should change to the state as known to the Power Pro.

Don't forget to save your panel after making these changes.

Dave in Australia

Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands

#163996

开云体育

Dave,

Where do I select Monitoring in JMRI? ?Is it a drop down menu item? ?In my turnouts table I see a ‘check box' called “show feedback information” but it did nothing. ?I’m guessing that this is for connections with an AIU board. ?

The reference in the manual on CONTROLLING TURNOUTS AND OTHER ACCESSORIES describes how I have been using the hammerhead to set turnouts on the layout for years, but using it in that manner does not provide any change to the Panel Pro Panel. ?Yes, it shows what happened on the LCD readout of the hammerhead throttle but not the Panel Pro Panel.

I’m confident that you’ll get me there most likely in the next email. ?:-)

Thomas Cain

Indianapolis, IN

atsf93@...

Modeling the Eastern Illinois Santa Fe from the Prototype

See my?NEW?website and layout at: ?

Re: PR3 Power supply

#163995

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 10:46 AM, Tom Cain wrote:

I would recommend going against adding more voltage to the layout just to facilitate program track programming. ?That would be putting everything else you have at greater risk of damage.

Tom,

?The PR3 is a combination LocoNet to PC interface and *stand-alone* programmer. Using a 16-18VDC power supply with it does NOT "add more voltage to the layout".

Steve
"Breezlys"

Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands

#163994

开云体育

Thomas,

On 17 Sep 2019, at 12:10 PM, Tom Cain <atsf93@...> wrote:

I’m not sure from your note as to where Monitoring is done, JMRI or NCE.

The NCE command station monitors the last-commanded state of each of the 2048 possible accessory addresses and stores that in non-volatile memory.

This covers throttle commands, NCE macros, Mini Panel commands and JMRI commands via the serial interface.

When you select MONITORING in JMRI, JMRI regularly checks the contents of that table and updates panels.

My DCC command station is the NCE PH Pro 5 amp system not the NCE Powerhouse Pro,

Same product. NCE changed the name!

so does that mean I don’t have the capability to monitor the turnouts thrown from the Hammerhead throttle?

You are good to go.

I just looked through my NCE Owners Manual and did not find anything about Monitoring.

You will find a subtle reference in the manual:

CONTROLLING TURNOUTS AND OTHER ACCESSORIES

NOW= NORM or REV - The command station keeps a database of the last accessory

(turnout) commands sent for all accessory addresses. The bottom line of SELECT ACCY

prompt on the Pro Cab LCD reflects the current status of the accessory.

A convenience feature has been added. Pressing SEL ACCY twice at the SEL ACCY

prompt will toggle (reverse) the position of the current accessory.

That's all. We know the memory address of that table and JMRI can read it and utilise the contents.

Dave in Australia

Re: PR3 Power supply

#163993

开云体育

In the past someone suggested old laptop power supply.?

I have one that works great for me. ?Fits the PS3 or 4 perfectly

Kurt Konrath

Show quoted text

On Sep 16, 2019, at 8:06 PM, forfoum@... wrote:

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 06:37 PM, Alex Greig wrote:

Hi there, I have had similar problems with my PR4. Can anyone suggest the best product to use as the power supply and the PS14 jack on the PR4?
Or alternatively an adaptor between standard chargers and the jack on the PR4?
Not sure what you are asking.but here is my interpretation.

The plug end of the Digitrax PS14 DC power connector? is 5.5? x? 2.1mm . 5.5 is barrel diam . 2.1 is the PIN diam.

Neat trick from Digikey. A round tooth pic is 2.1/2.2mm diam. If you stick the tooth pic in the pin hole of DC connector and it is held in place,? the tip is 2.1mm.? If the tooth pic falls out easily,? it is a 2.5mm pin.

Marc

Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands

#163992

Tom,

PH Pro and PowerHouse Pro are just a slight name change that happened along
the years. Key difference is it is a big black box with a serial 9 pin port
and not something you use the NCE USB interface to connect. It uses a normal
serial interface to the computer. That version is totally different
internally (memory) from the PowerCab, SB5, Twin type systems. These last
ones are the ones that didn't track the turnout requests like the big box
did.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

Re: Feedback to Panel for NCE throttle commands

#163991

开云体育

Dave,

I’m not sure from your note as to where Monitoring is done, JMRI or NCE.

I saw this in the link you provided:

MONITORING

Default for LocoNet and XPressNet turnouts, this means the network is monitored for messages about the status of the turnout. This mode is only available for certain protocols, i.e. some protocols can't do the monitoring properly, and don't have this choice.?
If selected for the NCE Powerhouse Pro (only), it will monitor the last known state change of this turnout made by the command station (on request from a cab, macro, JMRI or Mini Panel).

My DCC command station is the NCE PH Pro 5 amp system not the NCE Powerhouse Pro, so does that mean I don’t have the?capability to monitor the turnouts thrown from the Hammerhead throttle?

I just looked through my NCE Owners Manual and did not find anything about Monitoring.

Thomas Cain

Indianapolis, IN

atsf93@...

Modeling the Eastern Illinois Santa Fe from the Prototype

See my?NEW?website and layout at: ?

Show quoted text

On Sep 16, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Dave Heap <dgheap@...> wrote:

Thomas,

On 17 Sep 2019, at 4:15 AM, Tom Cain <atsf93@...> wrote:

I have a JMRI Panel set up to control the layout and monitor occupancy via locoNet. ?If I click on a turnout on my computer to throw a switch, the position on the panel is always consistent with the turnout. ?My DCC system is NCE, and stationary decoders for tortoise machines are NCE SwitchIt and Switch8 decoders. ?If someone using their throttle throws a switch or if they use a layout/fascia push button to change the orientation of the switch it does not show the change on the panel. ?Is there a way to manage this other than adding AIU boards for feedback?

If you have an NCE Power Pro system, you can set Turnout Feedback Mode to MONITORING and your JMRI panel will be updated by NCE throttle or Mini Panel commands.

Unfortunately the NCE Power Pro and hence JMRI cannot directly monitor local pushbuttons connected directly to DCC accessory decoders. For that case, You need to use the Tortoise contacts and an AIU.

<>

Dave in Australia

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

#163990

开云体育

Dave,

Part of the problem is that different people use the term GND differently. In this case we mean the common return for whatever switches or detectors are being monitored by the AIU. We do NOT mean earth ground nor even some master power supply ground. The AIU itself has a terminal labeled GND. That is the place that any switches or detectors should to be referenced to, and no other. Where the AIU gets its power makes no difference.

You can get by sometimes with connecting the switch commons to other places, (also probably labeled GND and even connected together) but sooner or later you will have mysterious issues with no logical explanations.

It may seem neater to use a single ground connection to every switch on a panel, or every Tortoise in a yard, or every .... whatever, but electrically that is not usually the best option.

The 'Loop' we are talking about is the loop of wire starting at the input board (e.g. some AIU) going out to a contact and then returning to the same input board as the sensed line. That 'loop' or circuit should not include (as in surround, or go around, or be common with) any other wiring. (especially any track feeders or AC power)

In sensitive situations this means that every signal should be fed by its own pair of wires. In the case of an AIU or similar input board using a single common line for all 7 (or 14) sensors is not likely to cause issues as long as they run along the same path or in the same cable because it has internal noise suppression and some hysteresis.

Dick :)

On 9/16/2019 8:48 PM, Video7105 wrote:

Show quoted text

Thank Dave for the link and further advise. ?The GND in question has no relationship to the layout, since it’s powered by a wall wart only.?

Maybe my designation of Assy. Bus is what may be confusing. ?I have a yellow and white running around the layout, that is powered by the wall wart only and has no connection to the DCC System.?

My GND’s to my BD20/AIU/Ext. Power for Switch8 MK2 panels, comes from the negative side of the wall wart.?

It seems am having a problem understanding where the AIU GND should come from to start with, if not like like I have it.?

The positive side of the wall wart goes to my + connection on the BD20’s, in case I even decide to use it and the + side on the external power supply for the Switch8 MK2. No positive goes to the AIU, from the wall wart

If wrong, I have way to much invested in burning equipment up.?

Where is the suggested GND, for these panels, suggested to be obtain?

Thanks

Dave

In PA

Sent from iPhone Xs Max

On Sep 16, 2019, at 17:49, Dave Heap <dgheap@...> wrote:

Dave,

On 17 Sep 2019, at 2:51 AM, Video7105 <video7105@...> wrote:

Since the switches inside the tortoise are isolated, where is the GND Loop supposively happening at?

The three wires connected to pins 5, 6 & 7 need to go directly to the AIU GND terminal and two input pins of the AIU. They should be routed close together and preferably lightly twisted together.

The GND connection between pin 5 and the AIU GND terminal must not be made via any bus ground. Multiple Tortoises position switches must not use a shared ground back to the AIU GND.

To do otherwise invites false triggering of the AIU inputs.

The email from Dick Bronson (principal of RRCirKits) is here:

/g/jmriusers/message/163892

Dave in Australia

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

#163989

Dave in PA,

Yes I saw your other comment about 'where the gnd comes from'. For the AIU
with respect to the Tortoise, it is the first pin of the connector with the
other 7 inputs. While the gnd on both connectors are likely connected
internally, I would make the effort to keep the pins used stay with their
side of the AIU. More for consistency sake but following those sorts of
ideas is safest without knowing all the internal details of a board. I
follow that logic with all nodes of many types.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

#163988

开云体育

Dave,

On 14 Sep 2019, at 10:09 PM, Video7105 <video7105@...> wrote:

Thanks Dave for chiming in. ?The AIU board Gnd is connected to the Separate Accy Power Bus, on the ?“-“ side of the power supply. So am attaching Pin 5 also to the same Gnd on the Accy Power Bus, which is also the AIU Gnd.

For each Tortoise, both of those connections must be removed and replaced by a separate (otherwise unconnected) direct wire going between pin 5 and the single relevant AIU GND.

Dave in Australia

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

#163987

开云体育

Dave,

On 17 Sep 2019, at 10:48 AM, Video7105 <video7105@...> wrote:

It seems am having a problem understanding where the AIU GND should come from to start with, if not like like I have it.?

The positive side of the wall wart goes to my + connection on the BD20’s, in case I even decide to use it and the + side on the external power supply for the Switch8 MK2. No positive goes to the AIU, from the wall wart

If wrong, I have way to much invested in burning equipment up.?

Where is the suggested GND, for these panels, suggested to be obtain?

The AIU GND is connected to the NCE Cab Bus ground and hence to the case of the Power Pro.

No connection is to be made between the AIU GND pins and anything else except the ground returns of all sensors going to AIU pins.

All sensor ground returns must return directly to the AIU GND pins of the AIU that particular sensor is connected to.

In your diagram, that means that Tortoise pin 5 must be connected directly to the GND terminal of the AIU that pins 6 & 7 are connected to. No other connection is to be made to pin 5 of the Tortoise, or to the AIU GND (except pin 5 of other Tortoises).

No connection is to be made between your ACCY bus GND and any pin of the Tortoise or the AIU.

Your external ACCY power DC supply GND is to go to the sleeve of the coaxial DC socket on each Switch-8 Mk2.

Your external ACCY power positive DC supply is to go to the tip of the coaxial DC socket on each Switch-8 Mk2.

Your external ACCY power DC supply must not in any way connect to any other NCE product except the DC sockets on each?each Switch-8 Mk2.

Dave in Australia

Re: Release 4.17.4. Cell phone no longer controls trains

Frank in Houston

#163985

WOW. Thank you. I will try that tomorrow. That would be great. Thanks again.?
Frank in Houston?

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

Video7105

#163984

Thanks Ken,
I thought that was what I was doing. But maybe I muddied water with the wrong term. AssyBus

Thanks
Dave 
In PA

Sent from iPhone Xs Max

Show quoted text

On Sep 16, 2019, at 19:44, Ken Cameron <kcameron@...> wrote:

I think a good way to explain this is to insure the current that flows out
to the contacts on the Tortoise flows back to the same spot and takes the
same route. This is the best way to insure things like noise has the best
chance to cancel itself.

Now if the gnd at the AIU is internally part of the board is also tied to a
more system wide common should not change this. You want the current to
follow the same paths within a circuit and not some detour. I think of it
more like a balancing condition, you don't borrow electrons from somewhere
else, you keep each board using only the ones that passed through it, not
another board.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

Video7105

#163983

开云体育

Thank Dave for the link and further advise. ?The GND in question has no relationship to the layout, since it’s powered by a wall wart only.?

Maybe my designation of Assy. Bus is what may be confusing. ?I have a yellow and white running around the layout, that is powered by the wall wart only and has no connection to the DCC System.?

My GND’s to my BD20/AIU/Ext. Power for Switch8 MK2 panels, comes from the negative side of the wall wart.?

It seems am having a problem understanding where the AIU GND should come from to start with, if not like like I have it.?

The positive side of the wall wart goes to my + connection on the BD20’s, in case I even decide to use it and the + side on the external power supply for the Switch8 MK2. No positive goes to the AIU, from the wall wart

If wrong, I have way to much invested in burning equipment up.?

Where is the suggested GND, for these panels, suggested to be obtain?

Thanks

Dave

In PA

Sent from iPhone Xs Max

Show quoted text

On Sep 16, 2019, at 17:49, Dave Heap <dgheap@...> wrote:

Dave,

On 17 Sep 2019, at 2:51 AM, Video7105 <video7105@...> wrote:

Since the switches inside the tortoise are isolated, where is the GND Loop supposively happening at?

The three wires connected to pins 5, 6 & 7 need to go directly to the AIU GND terminal and two input pins of the AIU. They should be routed close together and preferably lightly twisted together.

The GND connection between pin 5 and the AIU GND terminal must not be made via any bus ground. Multiple Tortoises position switches must not use a shared ground back to the AIU GND.

To do otherwise invites false triggering of the AIU inputs.

The email from Dick Bronson (principal of RRCirKits) is here:
/g/jmriusers/message/163892

Dave in Australia

Re: PR3 Power supply

#163982

开云体育

On 9/16/2019 6:20 AM, Frank Rich via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello All

I have learned that I cannot program any engines w/ JMRI on my program track.? JMRI works fine when I program on the main.
I believe my PS14 power supply (with a Power Pax) is to low

Can someone suggest an 18volt power supply to try?

Thank You
Frank

This is the 18v P/S I got for my PR3.? With it I could program everything but a BLI Paragon 2 N-Scale PRR M1a/b.? I had to go to a SPROG 3 for that.? I could program ESU, Digitras, Lenz, NCE, TCS and Soundtraxx Sound Value Decoders (Bachmann).? I did have a Soundtraxx Tsunami or other decoders.? Nor a QSI or MRC.

Specifics: Input Voltage: AC 100-240V (Worldwide AC Input) Input Frequency: 50-60Hz Input Connecter Standard: 2 Pin US Plug Output Voltage: DC 18V 1A Connecter Size: 5.5*2.5mm As the pictures shown Cable Length: 4ft Color: Black

-- 
John H. Reinhardt
  PRRT&HS  #8909
  C&O HS  #11530
  N-Trak   #7566

TSU-PNP GE will not communicate with SPROG3

#163979

I just finished installing a TSU-PNP GE, and have run across a strange problem.? When I try to add a new loco in DecoderPro, it fails to correctly identify the decoder.? If I manually select the correct decoder from the list, I cannot read or write any CVs to the decoder.? As soon as I try to read CVs, the startup sound starts playing from the decoder, and I continually get "no locomotive detected (301)".? Has anyone else run across this?

I did just get a new computer, but I do not believe that to be the issue, as I have been able to identify and read a TSU-2200 Alco, and a TCS WOWSound steam.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Shawn

Re: Detection in JRMI with NCE Accessories

#163978

I think a good way to explain this is to insure the current that flows out
to the contacts on the Tortoise flows back to the same spot and takes the
same route. This is the best way to insure things like noise has the best
chance to cancel itself.

Now if the gnd at the AIU is internally part of the board is also tied to a
more system wide common should not change this. You want the current to
follow the same paths within a circuit and not some detour. I think of it
more like a balancing condition, you don't borrow electrons from somewhere
else, you keep each board using only the ones that passed through it, not
another board.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

Re: MRC Prodigy Advance Error

[email protected]

#163977

Bob,
Thank you for the help.
Please let me know when to download the new JMRI.

Ken