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On Jul 26, 2017, at 6:50 PM, robert.zeolla@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...> wrote:

Let's discuss the westbbound signal for track 2 at CP Kiski. The file SignalLogicKiskiWest2.png shows what I believe SSL is capable of. Apparently it can only specify a single turnout for the signal to react to. In my case, that signal needs to be red when turnout 303 is thrown (as shown on SignalLogicKiskiWest2.png), and also when turnout 304 is thrown (not on SignalLogicKiskiWest2.pnglosed) if turnout 303 is closed. Can this be accomplished using this tool? Or do I need to move to something more sophisticated?

You can do this, but it involves extra non-displaying SignalHeads. Roughly:

1) Define an internal / virtual head that is on the entrance to the furthest turnout. It’ll show red if that’s set against. (This isn’t on the layout, though you might want to add it to a panel so you can see what’s going on)

2) Now set up the real signal to (a) protect against the near turnout and (b) follow your signal from (1) as “Distant”. That last part is important: “Distant” means to be red when the far signal is red, not yellow when the far signal is red.

It can become complicated, but this should always be able to handle what needs to be handled.

Bob
--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

We have a (partial) implementation of one set of German signals, see:



There’s a comment on it that says "Missing aspect mapping, not finished.” so it probably needs a bit more work. I’d be happy to help somebody with the needed knowledge set that up.

What’s there is enough to display the signals, but not quite enough for JMRI’s automated signal logic to e.g. figure out which aspect has to appear before which other aspect. FOr more on that see



and



Bob

On Jul 26, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Michael Piazza mpiazza2007@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...> wrote:

The German signals don't work that way. Depending upon which signal type
they are more complex in that they show aspects and can show more than one
aspect at the same time depending upon whether there is a distant signal
attached to the same mast or whether there is a switching signal attached
to the same mast.

I am speaking from knowledge of German signalling but a novice at JMRI. It
was my understanding that JMRI had the German signals in its configuration
but what I do not know yet is if those signals are set up using the logix
and how that logix output is designed to get to the signal? I'm thinking
maybe the JMRI 'way' is the expectation of using a manufacturer's signal
decoder units such as those sold by Marklin or some other European
manufacturer.

I will be following this thread closely as I will going down the same path
here shortly although my plan was to tie my signals to CMRI outputs that
then feed a decoder board I originally designed and built to be able to
drive my Brawa signals. Unfortunately Brawa stopped making them and they
are the only fine-scale signals I have seen. Until someone else steps into
the breech I will be stuck with the more clunky Veissmann signals.

Mike Piazza

--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

It looks like somehow the steps that create the “version” code aren’t being run.

When you tell Ant to do the build, the “update-template-code” step handles that.

Do you have Eclipse configured to have Ant do the build?

Bob

On Jul 26, 2017, at 7:02 PM, saverinm@... [jmriusers] <jmriusers@...> wrote:

I have a JMRI git repository on my Win 10 system. in Eclipse Mars 2, 4.7.1, 4.8 and 4.9.1 build correctly. 4.7.1 runs fine from Eclipse including Locobuf and CMRI interfaces. However, I get the following error at startup with 4.8 and 4.9.1 early on:


2017-07-26 21:26:53,321 util.Log4JUtil INFO - * JMRI log ** [main]
2017-07-26 21:26:53,591 util.Log4JUtil INFO - This log is appended to file: C:&#92;Users&#92;Michael&#92;JMRI&#92;log&#92;messages.log [main]
2017-07-26 21:26:53,593 util.Log4JUtil INFO - This log is stored in file: C:&#92;Users&#92;Michael&#92;JMRI&#92;log&#92;session.log [main]
2017-07-26 21:26:53,600 ptionhandler.UncaughtExceptionHandler ERROR - Uncaught Exception caught by jmri.util.exceptionhandler.UncaughtExceptionHandler [main]
java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
at jmri.util.Log4JUtil.startupInfo(Log4JUtil.java:142)
at apps.Apps.setStartupInfo(Apps.java:1221)
at apps.PanelPro.PanelPro.main(PanelPro.java:100)
Caused by: java.util.MissingResourceException: Can't find resource for bundle java.util.PropertyResourceBundle, key release.modifier
at java.util.ResourceBundle.getObject(ResourceBundle.java:450)
at java.util.ResourceBundle.getString(ResourceBundle.java:407)
at jmri.Version.<clinit>(Version.java:89)
... 3 more


Any thoughts? I first checkout the branches in git and do a refresh in Eclipse before I build and run.


Many Thanks,

--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

I am working on an installation of Team Digital BLOC8D for our club and
would like some help on the readout I get when monitoring the LocoNet via
Decoder Pro.

This is the sequence I get when using the potentiometers on the board to
force the detectors HI and then LOW. Let's not worry about Sensor 134 for
the time being (the text is mine, not Decoder Pro), it is currently
"hanging" in a constantly HI state.

So it seems to me that Decoder Pro is seeing the BLOC8D just fine.

I am curious about the text at the end of each line in parentheses
regarding such things as BDL #16, and so on). Is this text "comment"
supplied by Decoder Pro or LocoNet?

I set the BLOC8D in this example with a beginning address of 200, so I was
assuming the output would read 200-207, and wonder why I am getting numbers
133-140.

What does the prefix LS mean?

Finally, the main reason for this whole exercise is to deliver block
occupancy data to Loconet that can be read by other hardware and set
signals. Is this what the HEX numbers are at the beginning, right after
the time stamp indicate?

This is my first time working with the output from the LocoNet in Decoder
Pro, and it is really interesting to me. Thanks for any guidance and
advice.

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum


11:24:32.359: [B2 42 50 5F] Sensor LS133 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS5;
DS54/64/SE8c #17, AuxC/A3/DS05)
*Missing Sensor LS134*
11:24:32.484: [B2 43 50 5E] Sensor LS135 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS7;
DS54/64/SE8c #17, AuxD/A4/DS07)
11:24:32.609: [B2 43 70 7E] Sensor LS136 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS8;
DS54/64/SE8c #17, SwiD/S4/DS08)
11:24:35.234: [B2 44 50 59] Sensor LS137 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS9;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, AuxA/A1/DS01)
11:24:35.359: [B2 44 70 79] Sensor LS138 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS10;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, SwiA/S1/DS02)
11:24:35.484: [B2 45 50 58] Sensor LS139 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS11;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, AuxB/A2/DS03)
11:24:35.625: [B2 45 70 78] Sensor LS140 () is Hi. (BDL16 #9, DS12;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, SwiB/S2/DS04)
11:24:41.250: [B2 42 40 4F] Sensor LS133 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS5;
DS54/64/SE8c #17, AuxC/A3/DS05)
*Missing Sensor LS134*
11:24:41.375: [B2 43 40 4E] Sensor LS135 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS7;
DS54/64/SE8c #17, AuxD/A4/DS07)
11:24:41.500: [B2 43 60 6E] Sensor LS136 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS8;
DS54/64/SE8c #17, SwiD/S4/DS08)
11:24:45.046: [B2 44 40 49] Sensor LS137 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS9;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, AuxA/A1/DS01)
11:24:45.171: [B2 44 60 69] Sensor LS138 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS10;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, SwiA/S1/DS02)
11:24:45.296: [B2 45 40 48] Sensor LS139 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS11;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, AuxB/A2/DS03)
11:24:45.437: [B2 45 60 68] Sensor LS140 () is Lo. (BDL16 #9, DS12;
DS54/64/SE8c #18, SwiB/S2/DS04)

Ah, I must have missed that. Thanks!

Sincerely,


Steve

Bob Z,



One clue if you do use SSL is that to combine turnouts, you need to create
virtual signals and then make the real one 'distant' to the virtual so it
combines the logic results. When 'distant' is set, it will not make its
aspects greater but equal to what it is seeing. Without distant, seeing a
yellow would give a green, but with distant, seeing a yellow will keep
yellow as the max.



So for your example, the SSL using turnout 303 will have a signal it is
watching that is the virtual that is using turnout 304. Since you can watch
two different sets of signals from one based on path, you can build this up.
It may be messy at times but works nicely.



-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org

I'm also Win10, Eclipse Oxygen 4.7.0, and doing fine with HEAD. I can run or
debug just fine and not getting similar errors.



-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

www.syracusemodelrr.org

I have a JMRI git repository on my Win 10 system. in Eclipse Mars 2, 4.7.1, 4.8 and 4.9.1 build correctly. 4.7.1 runs fine from Eclipse including Locobuf and CMRI interfaces. However, I get the following error at startup with 4.8 and 4.9.1 early on:


2017-07-26 21:26:53,321 util.Log4JUtil INFO - * JMRI log ** [main]
2017-07-26 21:26:53,591 util.Log4JUtil INFO - This log is appended to file: C:&#92;Users&#92;Michael&#92;JMRI&#92;log&#92;messages.log [main]
2017-07-26 21:26:53,593 util.Log4JUtil INFO - This log is stored in file: C:&#92;Users&#92;Michael&#92;JMRI&#92;log&#92;session.log [main]
2017-07-26 21:26:53,600 ptionhandler.UncaughtExceptionHandler ERROR - Uncaught Exception caught by jmri.util.exceptionhandler.UncaughtExceptionHandler [main]
java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
at jmri.util.Log4JUtil.startupInfo(Log4JUtil.java:142)
at apps.Apps.setStartupInfo(Apps.java:1221)
at apps.PanelPro.PanelPro.main(PanelPro.java:100)
Caused by: java.util.MissingResourceException: Can't find resource for bundle java.util.PropertyResourceBundle, key release.modifier
at java.util.ResourceBundle.getObject(ResourceBundle.java:450)
at java.util.ResourceBundle.getString(ResourceBundle.java:407)
at jmri.Version.<clinit>(Version.java:89)
... 3 more


Any thoughts? I first checkout the branches in git and do a refresh in Eclipse before I build and run.


Many Thanks,


Mike...

The large majority of locos have all the wheels on each side directly electrically connected.

So I am not sure how the frog voltage could ever be different from the track voltage?

Andy

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the jmriusers
group.

File : /Bob Z Virtual Signals/SignalLogicKiskiiWest2.png
Uploaded by : rzeollaorcl <robert.zeolla@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:


Regards,

rzeollaorcl <robert.zeolla@...>

Bob Z,
Check out my web page


about mid way down is a picture of the layout editor panel with all of the intermediate internal signals revealed. I used SSL in all cases and just added these intermediate signals when more than one turnout is required to watch. Then you use the home signal feature to move the displayed aspect to the real physical signal.

Bob Bucklew

Please see the file "LayoutDiagram.png" in folder Bob Z Virtual Signals. I am wondering if Simple Signal Logic will meet my needs. I am trying to control the signals at CP Kiski westbound (to left) and eastbound (to right).

Let's discuss the westbbound signal for track 2 at CP Kiski. The file SignalLogicKiskiWest2.png shows what I believe SSL is capable of. Apparently it can only specify a single turnout for the signal to react to. In my case, that signal needs to be red when turnout 303 is thrown (as shown on SignalLogicKiskiWest2.png), and also when turnout 304 is thrown (not on SignalLogicKiskiWest2.pnglosed) if turnout 303 is closed. Can this be accomplished using this tool? Or do I need to move to something more sophisticated?


The eastbound signals at CP Kiski are also an issue. I understand how to have turnout 305 control the signals on the eastbound main and the signal coming off the Allegheny Secondary. But these signals should also be effected if track 2 between CP Kiski and CP Apollo is occupied and turnouts 303 and 304 are closed or if track 1 between CP Kiski and CP Apollo is occupied and turnout 303 is thrown and 304 is closed. Is this possible with SSL?


Thanks,
Bob Z

Gary



Probably easiest to create a head using the Double Output driver. This will display correctly when you select Dark, Red or Green.


Create a mast using this head as a head controlled mast and as long as it does not have any yellow colours it should display fine.


Alternatively you can just create the mast and use the matrix driver with two turnouts, and configure that.


Suzie x

The current is limited to less than the short wants (very high current) but more than any loco would want otherwise a loco moving onto a frog set correctly would trigger it. The frog voltage will move as the current is sensed but the main track voltage will not dip since the current limit in the juicer is less than the DCC controller can supply. Since the loco will generally have other wheels on the main track then the DCC decoder in the loco does not see the frog voltage move and even if there is a fine spike in the main track voltage the DCC decoder will have a small reservoir cap which will filter it ensuring the decoder does not reset. Our club runs several DCC layouts all of which use frog juicers in various places for different reasons and have never noticed them at work even with dozens of different locos many with DCC sound.

FYI, with JMRI 4.8 or later the ESU SwitchPilot decoders have JMRI decoder definitions, are fully programmable on Program Track (read the ESU manual to see how to connect for Program Track Mode) and Program on Main (when fitted to layout).

Furthermore, the Single CV Programmer tool in JMRI can also be used. For Program on Main of these particular decoders with this tool, you need to select "Ops Accessory Byte", "Decoder Address" and use the decoder address (in the range 1-511) rather than the output address (in the range 1-2044).

Note that with SwitchPilot decoders, the usable range is limited to decoder addresses 1-510 and output addresses 1-2040 (commands to outputs 2041-2044 are ignored).
--
Dave in Australia

Steve,

Since you are using direct connectivity, JMRI is providing the timing for your flashing reds. So, you should not need to change anything in CATS, but make your changes in JMRI, as you first suspected.

Thanks for the kind words and I did read your articles in the Dispatcher Office. Nicely done. I will look through your articles and see if there are any other clues as to what could be going on.

Rodney
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Because I am using the direct connectivity/interface between JMRI, I didn't have to fill in any of the decoder addresses. In order to properly follow your directions, do I now need to fill out all of the decoder information on the screen below, or, just that for the "flashing red"?

The German signals don't work that way. Depending upon which signal type
they are more complex in that they show aspects and can show more than one
aspect at the same time depending upon whether there is a distant signal
attached to the same mast or whether there is a switching signal attached
to the same mast.

I am speaking from knowledge of German signalling but a novice at JMRI. It
was my understanding that JMRI had the German signals in its configuration
but what I do not know yet is if those signals are set up using the logix
and how that logix output is designed to get to the signal? I'm thinking
maybe the JMRI 'way' is the expectation of using a manufacturer's signal
decoder units such as those sold by Marklin or some other European
manufacturer.

I will be following this thread closely as I will going down the same path
here shortly although my plan was to tie my signals to CMRI outputs that
then feed a decoder board I originally designed and built to be able to
drive my Brawa signals. Unfortunately Brawa stopped making them and they
are the only fine-scale signals I have seen. Until someone else steps into
the breech I will be stuck with the more clunky Veissmann signals.

Mike Piazza

On 26 July 2017 at 14:12, gratay@... [jmriusers] <
jmriusers@...> wrote:

I am trying to set up a basic Signal with 3 states Red, Green, and Dark. I
have tried all of the various Signal Heads. The signal is being driven by
an ESU 51820 Accessory Decoder using 2 of the 4 outputs. 1 for the Red Bulb
on/off, and one for the Green Bulb. Call them XT1 and XT2, I am using
THROWN to turn the lamp on and CLOSED to turn it off. This was the only way
I could see to be able to have a DARK state.


Using JMRI 4.6 on a Mac


Gary

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This can only be done if the decoder supports such an option.

I know that ESU decoders can be configured so that a function key works as a combined Volume/Mute key; a single press mutes or unmutes, double presses step through six predefined master volume levels. Very useful for club/vs home etc.

I don't know of any other decoder brand or model that does so.
--
Dave in Australia

Hi Fraser, I looked at your XML panel file, but am pretty sure the structure of the matrix signal masts is ok despite being written in 4.6. After I deleted all the extra stuff, except for 1 matrix mast and the two turnouts used as outputs, it loaded fine in de signal mast table. Didn't check your custom appearance file, but saw another error message about some "" (that's empty) number format exception for a Cbus turnout that was gone when I took out all but the 2 turnouts. You've got quite a list, so I'm sorry I was unable to look at each one.
Is there a place where you use this particular matrix mast in either an icon on your panel, in Signal Mast Logic or a signal group. That could be the spot where the mast is loaded again, and we might not have tested before. Still, my approach to find the cause would be to first take out the LayoutEditor panel and then cut the remaining file in half and see what happens. If OK, check the other half.
Please let us know what you find.


Egbert

I am trying to set up a basic Signal with 3 states Red, Green, and Dark. I have tried all of the various Signal Heads. The signal is being driven by an ESU 51820 Accessory Decoder using 2 of the 4 outputs. 1 for the Red Bulb on/off, and one for the Green Bulb. Call them XT1 and XT2, I am using THROWN to turn the lamp on and CLOSED to turn it off. This was the only way I could see to be able to have a DARK state.


Using JMRI 4.6 on a Mac


Gary