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Thank you David.
I watched all the videos in your link. I also showed the CNC shop your video what I was there this afternoon. I? that explain? the required tight fit. tolerance? , he said it is doable and he can make those.
He should get back to me with a quote on pricing (including material cost).
I asked for a batch of 20 (based on a list Imran made few weeks ago), let's see what the price will be.
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Ok, i have to ask; What kind of tolerences are you expecting to achieve with the short crosscut fence? I have been using one on a fairly regular basis for particular jobs on the saw and spindle moulder/shaper for years and never had an issue with the accuracy. I have to make sure when i attach the fence that i snug the kip lever in the channel up to almost tight before pulling the fence hard against the pivoting stop while tightening that kip lever, then go back and do a final tighten on the first kip lever. One thing for sure is that it is a bit of a pain to attach, having to run it down the P channel to install it. After seeing this post a week or so ago, i wondered if i was not paying enough attention to its accuracy so actually went and put it on, took it off, and did that multiple times to check for square. Every time it was spot on. Now, i am only checking with an 8" engineers square, but every time it was perfectly square checking with that. I'm curious as to what accuracy folks here are aiming for, and how you measure it. Obviously anything less than perfectly square will be more noticeable the longer the cut being made, but surely you would then be using the outrigger if making cuts of that length. I do mostly use the outrigger on my machine, but find the short fence very helpful in certain circumstances. Maybe i am just not pushing its limits whenever i employ it? I would like to know what kind of inaccuracy people get with it, and how they measure it. I dunno, maybe i need to go buy myself a blue and white striped apron. :)
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
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Consider yourself on of the lucky ones. ?Some people, like yourself, have a short crosscut fence setup that will come off and go back on and register square to the travel of the sliding table. ?However, the majority of users do not experience this. ?Typical variations are ±2°. Why some and not others? ?I have no idea. ?What I do know is that Felder corporate say the short crosscut fence setup works well and consistently registers to 90° properly. ?At least two Felder showrooms in the USA have been unable to get the standard setup to register consistently, and actually installed my upgrade kit to resolve the issues. ?
In terms of short fence use, I almost always use the shortcut crosscut ?fence on the shaper for counter-profiling operations, and rarely use it on the saw where I prefer the outrigger fence or an EGL.
You din’t say how you were checking alignment with your “8-inch engineers square”, but?demonstrates the quickest and most accurate method. ?My preference for this is a square that is at least 300mm on a side. ?There have been numerous posts before (and in the message archive) about various squares that are suitable for this type of alignment. ?I mention two squares that I consider ideal in my list of recommended tools for self-commissioning Felder machines which you can find at.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Nov 14, 2024, at 8:53?PM, Bryce Comer via groups.io <bryce@...> wrote:
Ok, i have to ask; What kind of tolerences are you expecting to achieve with the short crosscut fence? I have been using one on a fairly regular basis for particular jobs on the saw and spindle moulder/shaper for years and never had an issue with the accuracy. I have to make sure when i attach the fence that i snug the kip lever in the channel up to almost tight before pulling the fence hard against the pivoting stop while tightening that kip lever, then go back and do a final tighten on the first kip lever. One thing for sure is that it is a bit of a pain to attach, having to run it down the P channel to install it. After seeing this post a week or so ago, i wondered if i was not paying enough attention to its accuracy so actually went and put it on, took it off, and did that multiple times to check for square. Every time it was spot on. Now, i am only checking with an 8" engineers square, but every time it was perfectly square checking with that. I'm curious as to what accuracy folks here are aiming for, and how you measure it. Obviously anything less than perfectly square will be more noticeable the longer the cut being made, but surely you would then be using the outrigger if making cuts of that length. I do mostly use the outrigger on my machine, but find the short fence very helpful in certain circumstances. Maybe i am just not pushing its limits whenever i employ it? I would like to know what kind of inaccuracy people get with it, and how they measure it. I dunno, maybe i need to go buy myself a blue and white striped apron. :)
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
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Hi All,
Was reading this and reflecting on an issue i am having with the outrigger fence. I have now checked 4 different fence extrusions from Felder, having access to their showroom and Maintenace team, and have struggled to get one that is straight. The most recent
one has a .2-.3mm bow, at best.
A question to the group, how can one get consistent square cuts for fine furniture production, I?make a lot of boxes of various lengths and need the saw to produce square cuts rather than having to take shavings with a shoulder plane.?
Currently i am getting 0.03 over 250mm on a setup usings Davids method with a 400x250 precision square but then when i go to 600/900, it varies significantly.
Any ideas would be appreciated.?
On the short cross cut, i have now completely moved away and use either the parallel rip fence or F&F set-ups.
Thanks
Colum
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Consider yourself on of the lucky ones. ?Some people, like yourself, have a short crosscut fence setup that will come off and go back on and register square to the travel of the sliding table. ?However, the majority of users do not experience this. ?Typical
variations are ±2°. Why some and not others? ?I have no idea. ?What I do know is that Felder corporate say the short crosscut fence setup works well and consistently registers to 90° properly. ?At least two Felder showrooms in the USA have been unable to get
the standard setup to register consistently, and actually installed my upgrade kit to resolve the issues. ?
In terms of short fence use, I almost always use the shortcut crosscut ?fence on the shaper for counter-profiling operations, and rarely use it on the saw where I prefer the outrigger fence or an EGL.
You din’t say how you were checking alignment with your “8-inch engineers square”, but?demonstrates the quickest and most accurate method. ?My preference for this is a square that is at least 300mm on a side. ?There have been numerous posts before (and in the message archive) about various squares that are suitable for this
type of alignment. ?I mention two squares that I consider ideal in my list of recommended tools for self-commissioning Felder machines which you can find at.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Nov 14, 2024, at 8:53?PM, Bryce Comer via groups.io <bryce@...> wrote:
Ok, i have to ask; What kind of tolerences are you expecting to achieve with the short crosscut fence? I have been using one on a fairly regular basis for particular jobs on the saw and spindle moulder/shaper for years and never had an issue with the accuracy.
I have to make sure when i attach the fence that i snug the kip lever in the channel up to almost tight before pulling the fence hard against the pivoting stop while tightening that kip lever, then go back and do a final tighten on the first kip lever. One
thing for sure is that it is a bit of a pain to attach, having to run it down the P channel to install it. After seeing this post a week or so ago, i wondered if i was not paying enough attention to its accuracy so actually went and put it on, took it off,
and did that multiple times to check for square. Every time it was spot on. Now, i am only checking with an 8" engineers square, but every time it was perfectly square checking with that. I'm curious as to what accuracy folks here are aiming for, and how you
measure it. Obviously anything less than perfectly square will be more noticeable the longer the cut being made, but surely you would then be using the outrigger if making cuts of that length. I do mostly use the outrigger on my machine, but find the short
fence very helpful in certain circumstances. Maybe i am just not pushing its limits whenever i employ it? I would like to know what kind of inaccuracy people get with it, and how they measure it. I dunno, maybe i need to go buy myself a blue and white striped
apron. :)
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
I got a quote from the metal shop.
If we'll order a batch of 25 of those, the price per T-nut would be $55 and the price of the bushing would be $34.
We still need to add the cost of boring the clamping block, modifying the Kipp lever and adding an extension shaft.
I think that is really reasonable price (I initially thought it would be much higher)
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Thanks for the reply David,
Wow +/- 2 deg is a huge amount of variation. Thinking about how the short crosscut fence and it's parts are made, i don't even know how that could be possible unless there was a major flaw in the machining or something. Or, the way it is being put on or taken off. I'm sorry to hear that there are those out there that have this problem.
As for being no more than 3 thou out over 10" as in your video, well that's definitely not the accuracy i'm after. I can't even think of when i would want to be chasing that kind of accuracy working with wood. That essentially equates to .0175 of 1 degree.?
Sometimes i accidentally stumble upon perfection, but it's always whilst aiming for excellence!
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
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? Wade great idea, I will be happy to sell my Design manufacturing fixtures and patterns a reasonable cost. Electric bolt underneath I don’t think there’s any bolts down there lift up again once seems like around here. It’s the safest way to take this off Pin casting can’t can’t. I think the easiest way is just to take that piss off right here do you think no idea let’s try and just pull it this way OK no it’s caught on the bottom on the bottom there. It won’t lift it up. It’s caught up over the edge. It’s like a channel 3/16 730 very well Metric. This is probably three different type of bolts on it metric standard and Lithuanian or something like that. Not really have any English tools. It’s pretty common the Woodweb thread European and older their style. It’s very very similar to to find SAE American SAE there is a little difference like maybe half inches 11 threads per inch and I think Wentworth might be 12 probably really annoying when you’re looking at a fastener like this should go in there. Nice thing about this when you take this off it should sit right back in the right place sit sitting on that ledge down there, but that is a stupid fucking way to do this. Jesus Christ didn’t I went to the easiest method I guess yeah maybe but it is what it is. They’re having the shelf behind her. That’s just sitting right there and moving probably right there.Sure, your bread was manufacture. It’s 947 place. I guess we get back. I can come back together for sure. These are the two bolts for that if you’re itching to get into making something that would be all you really need to hook up to let me ask nate if he’s got a few minutes for you. It would be best if we could put it back together.
You would need at least vertical mail with a Yeah, see that’s it that there I don’t think soo whe where is the longer bullshit that fits in here what else Allan ranchermedium travel. Designing and building for 50 years
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On Oct 9, 2024, at 12:17?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
? I am like John.
Using the parallel fence and the outrigger to cut long boards. For short pieces I am using David bedrosian F&F.
?
another thing worth to mention is that the parallel fence is mounted on the P channel of the rail, which isn’t guaranteed to be parallel to the blade, so you can have few mm difference between two spots on the slider.
?
i built a magnet base to stop block like David Lucky did.
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I do not have dementia!! Somehow, a goofy phone was listening to myself and my friend Tom troubleshoot a problem on my lath which we fixed and have no idea how we fixed it that’s nerving anyhow sorry for the post. Makes absolutely no sense. Nothing to do with what you guys are talking about. Peace smack Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:51?AM, mac campshure <mac512002@...> wrote:
? ? Wade great idea, I will be happy to sell my Design manufacturing fixtures and patterns a reasonable cost. Electric bolt underneath I don’t think there’s any bolts down there lift up again once seems like around here. It’s the safest way to take this off Pin casting can’t can’t. I think the easiest way is just to take that piss off right here do you think no idea let’s try and just pull it this way OK no it’s caught on the bottom on the bottom there. It won’t lift it up. It’s caught up over the edge. It’s like a channel 3/16 730 very well Metric. This is probably three different type of bolts on it metric standard and Lithuanian or something like that. Not really have any English tools. It’s pretty common the Woodweb thread European and older their style. It’s very very similar to to find SAE American SAE there is a little difference like maybe half inches 11 threads per inch and I think Wentworth might be 12 probably really annoying when you’re looking at a fastener like this should go in there. Nice thing about this when you take this off it should sit right back in the right place sit sitting on that ledge down there, but that is a stupid fucking way to do this. Jesus Christ didn’t I went to the easiest method I guess yeah maybe but it is what it is. They’re having the shelf behind her. That’s just sitting right there and moving probably right there.Sure, your bread was manufacture. It’s 947 place. I guess we get back. I can come back together for sure. These are the two bolts for that if you’re itching to get into making something that would be all you really need to hook up to let me ask nate if he’s got a few minutes for you. It would be best if we could put it back together.
You would need at least vertical mail with a Yeah, see that’s it that there I don’t think soo whe where is the longer bullshit that fits in here what else Allan ranchermedium travel. Designing and building for 50 years On Oct 9, 2024, at 12:17?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
? I am like John.
Using the parallel fence and the outrigger to cut long boards. For short pieces I am using David bedrosian F&F.
?
another thing worth to mention is that the parallel fence is mounted on the P channel of the rail, which isn’t guaranteed to be parallel to the blade, so you can have few mm difference between two spots on the slider.
?
i built a magnet base to stop block like David Lucky did.
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Mac - I hear you on that.? I disabled Siri on my iPhone, it is totally unnerving.
cheers, Rich Markiewicz
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Gerry:? Your setup is more or less how I would like mine to be setup.? Is the short fence a 900mm one?
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Hi David Best,
?
I have gone over your amazingly detailed and informative videos relating to the short crosscut fence's repeatability several times (ever since I got my own temperamental crosscut fence a year ago). Here is a quick question - please excuse if it is naive thinking.
?
In the very first video of the series you state that the registration of the part that is mounted to the p-channel is actually pretty good and you don't seem to have a problem with the kipp lever on that side. However, I noticed that this kipp lever also doesn't have a tight tolerance bushing. If the adjustable 90 degree stop lever ensures a repeatable position of the fence on that end, could we not simply add a similar stop to the other side (the t-nut side)? A stop that we push up against when we tighten the kipp lever. Wouldn't that allow for a repeatable operation (with two positive stops)? Or is the short distance between the two kipp levers the real culprit, requiring tight tolerances of less than 0.001 mm?
?
Many thanks,
?
Cornelius
Cyprus?
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It is my view that the short distance between the pivot point of the fence and the 90° stop is a significant contributor to the design weakness overall. If you have ideas on how to implement a second registration stop that flips out of the way for miter operations, then I think you should pursue that idea. ? Personally, I think a well executed Fritz & Franz jig is a better approach as a short cross fence for 90° crosscut operations. ?And for mitered crosscut operations, if the long crosscut fence on the outrigger table is too cumbersome then I consistently recommend purchasing a DGL or EGL accessory. ?? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Dec 16, 2024, at 3:49?AM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:
? Hi David Best,
?
I have gone over your amazingly detailed and informative videos relating to the short crosscut fence's repeatability several times (ever since I got my own temperamental crosscut fence a year ago). Here is a quick question - please excuse if it is naive thinking.
?
In the very first video of the series you state that the registration of the part that is mounted to the p-channel is actually pretty good and you don't seem to have a problem with the kipp lever on that side. However, I noticed that this kipp lever also doesn't have a tight tolerance bushing. If the adjustable 90 degree stop lever ensures a repeatable position of the fence on that end, could we not simply add a similar stop to the other side (the t-nut side)? A stop that we push up against when we tighten the kipp lever. Wouldn't that allow for a repeatable operation (with two positive stops)? Or is the short distance between the two kipp levers the real culprit, requiring tight tolerances of less than 0.001 mm?
?
Many thanks,
?
Cornelius
Cyprus?
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David,
?
Thank you for your feedback. I am actually using the short crosscut fence on my F700Z, not on the saw, so crosscutting is not the issue, I definitely need a fence and the ability to clamp down pieces square to the travel of my slider. I will tinker with the idea and hope to find a solution that will work at least for my needs. I was also thinking to overcome the short distance (between the pivot and 90 degree stop) by using the Felder sliding table extension which uses the p-channel as a reference and would increase the distance between the points. Just trying to work as much as possible with off the shelf components to improve the situation without commissioning a shop to machine parts to extremely tight tolerances.?
?
Many thanks,
?
Cornelius
Cyprus?
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Bryce Comer
David P. Best
Colum