|
Hello All,?
I'm running into a issue with my C-31 I was hoping you could help out with.? I was in the process of planeing/thicknessing around 20 or so 6' boards this morning as part of a woodworking table build.? About half way through, the planer started making a a little bit different noise so I stoped and and turned off the machine.? After disconnecting power, i manually turned the roller to make sure it was turning freely.? I then turned on the machine and continued planeing.? A couple of minutes in, the maching shut off.? During this process, I was wearing a half face respirator that had a organic vapor filter on it because my n95 pads fit over it with a filter retainer.? When i took it off, i smelled a burnt plastic smell.? After turing off the breaker, i felt under the planer section and the motor is very hot.? i think it tripped on high temperature.? Any thoughts on what I should look at or do?
Thanks,?
Annu
|
Annu,
I am assuming your machine s single phase?
It's possible that the start or run capacitor blew. ?
When you find them it will be easy to determine if one of them blew because the case will probably be ruptured or misshapen. ?
The first time this happened to me I order extra caps from Felder in case it happened again.
Joe
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hello All,?
I'm running into a issue with my C-31 I was hoping you could help out with.? I was in the process of planeing/thicknessing around 20 or so 6' boards this morning as part of a woodworking table build.? About half way through, the planer started making a a little bit different noise so I stoped and and turned off the machine.? After disconnecting power, i manually turned the roller to make sure it was turning freely.? I then turned on the machine and continued planeing.? A couple of minutes in, the maching shut off.? During this process, I was wearing a half face respirator that had a organic vapor filter on it because my n95 pads fit over it with a filter retainer.? When i took it off, i smelled a burnt plastic smell.? After turing off the breaker, i felt under the planer section and the motor is very hot.? i think it tripped on high temperature.? Any thoughts on what I should look at or do?
Thanks,?
Annu
|
Hey Joe, it is a single phase. ?Do you know where the capacitor is located? ?Also, the machine does start up, just the first time I restarted it and ran it, it tripped after a few minutes. ?I did start it up again but shut it down because I didn’t want to damage anything. ?I haven’t tried running it without a load to see if it trips again.
-Annu
|
? What i would do in this scenario is measure current while running motor under no load. If there is a short, the current will be higher than FLA listed on the motor and it is the most likely reason of the motor running hot.
Most likely means you will be replacing the motor.
Imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 8, 2021, at 12:11 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Hello All,?
I'm running into a issue with my C-31 I was hoping you could help out with.? I was in the process of planeing/thicknessing around 20 or so 6' boards this morning as part of a woodworking table build.? About half way through, the planer started making a a little bit different noise so I stoped and and turned off the machine.? After disconnecting power, i manually turned the roller to make sure it was turning freely.? I then turned on the machine and continued planeing.? A couple of minutes in, the maching shut off.? During this process, I was wearing a half face respirator that had a organic vapor filter on it because my n95 pads fit over it with a filter retainer.? When i took it off, i smelled a burnt plastic smell.? After turing off the breaker, i felt under the planer section and the motor is very hot.? i think it tripped on high temperature.? Any thoughts on what I should look at or do?
Thanks,?
Annu
|
Talked with the felder folk...gonna replace both the start and run capacitors. ?The electrical smell seems to be coming from that general area. ?Fingers crossed....
|
Annu,
If it is starting up normally, i would think caps are okay. If you buy caps and replace them yourself that is okay but if you are paying for a service call, I would buy a clamp-on current meter ($15) from harbor freight (off course you can get better ones but mine still works after 10+ yrs) and check the current draw.
I had a motor with short and it did exactly what you describe.
If you buy the clamp meter, make sure you can get it around one of the two wires (black it white) coming to the machine or going to the motor.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 8, 2021, at 3:15 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Talked with the felder folk...gonna replace both the start and run capacitors. ?The electrical smell seems to be coming from that general area. ?Fingers crossed....
|
Thanks for the suggestion Imran. ?I’ll borrow a meter from the electrical guys at the chem plant I work at and test this. ?The tech support guy said that the most common thing is the capacitors. ?He asked me if I held the start button down till the planer got up to speed...I did not because I didn’t realize I was supposed to do that. ?He thinks it might be that the start capacitor is fine and the run capacitor could be going bad. ?I really hope that is the case since it would be a relatively inexpensive fix. ?I can’t even imagine the steps I would have to take to replace the planer motor since there is no easy access door. ?I really hope that the capacitor replacement fixes the issue. ?This is my second gremlin on this machine. ?I had to replace the ebrake circuit board earlier this year.
-Annu
|
Please let us know if the run capacitor is bad. Since it is always in circuit a more robust capacitor is used for the run versus start.
I have read here that in some cases Felder places a single set of capacitors for use with multiple motors in the machine. In this situation, it was stated that they were located in the electrical area as opposed to in the motor. Just FYI.
BTW, in you failed brake board, did you notice any damage on the board? Mine was repairable, so i now have z spare.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 8, 2021, at 7:18 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Thanks for the suggestion Imran. ?I’ll borrow a meter from the electrical guys at the chem plant I work at and test this. ?The tech support guy said that the most common thing is the capacitors. ?He asked me if I held the start button down till the planer got up to speed...I did not because I didn’t realize I was supposed to do that. ?He thinks it might be that the start capacitor is fine and the run capacitor could be going bad. ?I really hope that is the case since it would be a relatively inexpensive fix. ?I can’t even imagine the steps I would have to take to replace the planer motor since there is no easy access door. ?I really hope that the capacitor replacement fixes the issue. ?This is my second gremlin on this machine. ?I had to replace the ebrake circuit board earlier this year.
-Annu
|
Annu, I suggest that you speak to a technician who knows what he is talking about. ? Holding down the start button went out with centrifugal switches years ago.
Do the other functions work OK ? If they do then that kinda rules out the capacitors I would have thought.
I hope you get it sorted.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Talked with the felder folk...gonna replace both the start and run capacitors. ?The electrical smell seems to be coming from that general area. ?Fingers crossed....
|
Roger,
Felder still uses single phase motors that do not have centrifugal switches. ?
Although on my FB 600 bandsaw even though there was a big sticker on it that said it was necessary to hold down the switch the motor did have a centrifugal switch. ?
My CF731 shared a start and a run capacitor for three motors so it was necessary to hold the start button to keep the start cap in the circuit until the motor reached full speed. ?
Joe
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 9, 2021, at 2:13 AM, Roger S <rsinden@...> wrote:
? Annu, I suggest that you speak to a technician who knows what he is talking about. ? Holding down the start button went out with centrifugal switches years ago.
Do the other functions work OK ? If they do then that kinda rules out the capacitors I would have thought.
I hope you get it sorted.?
Roger
Talked with the felder folk...gonna replace both the start and run capacitors. ?The electrical smell seems to be coming from that general area. ?Fingers crossed....
|
Joe
I think you’re agreeing with me ?
Centrifugal switch - hold it in…like your FB 600
No centrifugal switch - like Felder single phase motors - ie like the Hammer C3-31
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9 Jan 2021, at 12:51, bacchus6015 via < joeinno@...> wrote:
Roger,
Felder still uses single phase motors that do not have centrifugal switches. ?
Although on my FB 600 bandsaw even though there was a big sticker on it that said it was necessary to hold down the switch the motor did have a centrifugal switch. ?
My CF731 shared a start and a run capacitor for three motors so it was necessary to hold the start button to keep the start cap in the circuit until the motor reached full speed. ?
Joe
On Jan 9, 2021, at 2:13 AM, Roger S <rsinden@...> wrote:
? Annu, I suggest that you speak to a technician who knows what he is talking about. ? Holding down the start button went out with centrifugal switches years ago.
Do the other functions work OK ? If they do then that kinda rules out the capacitors I would have thought.
I hope you get it sorted.?
Roger
Talked with the felder folk...gonna replace both the start and run capacitors. ?The electrical smell seems to be coming from that general area. ?Fingers crossed....
|
|
|
Hey All,
the caps will be in on Tuesday so I find out then. ?
Cliff,
It had a electronic brake that is supposed to stop everything from spinning within 10-12 seconds of hitting the stop button. ?I think all it does is switch polarity on the motors.
-Annu?
|
No, it doesn’t, Annu. ?It injects DC into the motor winding.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hey All,
the caps will be in on Tuesday so I find out then. ?
Cliff,
It had a electronic brake that is supposed to stop everything from spinning within 10-12 seconds of hitting the stop button. ?I think all it does is switch polarity on the motors.
-Annu?
|
Hey All,
Now I’m very concerned. ?So I bought a fluke meter and tested my capacitors before I switched out the ones that came in today. ?The capacitance reading is coming to 40.1 on one and 39.9 on the other. ?So I tired to turn on the machine to time how long it took the motor on the planer to trip out. ?My 220 circuit was off and the switch on the machine was in planer mode. ?As soon as I turned on the circuit breaker, the machine started to make a racket and the planer head was rocking back and forth. ?This was without ever touching the power button on the machine. ?I immediately turned off the circuit breaker. ?I went and switch the machine to the table saw and turned on the circuit breaker. ?The machine immediately started humming on the planer motor and you could see that the planer head was engaged but not spinning. ?This also happens when the EStop button is engaged. ?Like I said in my first post, I did have a faint smell burnt electrical components. WTF??? ?The machine is 2 years old. ?I hope felder can resolve this.
-Annu
|
Annu,
Sounds like your brake board is malfunctioning. If you know how to bypass the brake board, you can confirm this.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 5:07 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ? [Edited Message Follows]
Hey All, Now I’m very concerned. ?So I bought a fluke meter and tested my capacitors before I switched out the ones that came in today. ?The capacitance reading is coming to 40.1 on one and 39.9 on the other. ?So I tired to turn on the machine to time how long it took the motor on the planer to trip out. ?My 220 circuit was off and the switch on the machine was in planer mode. ?As soon as I turned on the circuit breaker, the machine started to make a racket and the planer head was rocking back and forth. ?This was without ever touching the power button on the machine. ?I immediately turned off the circuit breaker. ?I went and switch the machine to the table saw and turned on the circuit breaker. ?The machine immediately started humming on the planer motor and you could see that the planer head was engaged but not spinning. ?This also happens when the EStop button is engaged. ?Like I said in my first post, I did have a faint smell burnt electrical components. WTF??? ?The machine is 2 years old. ?I hope felder can resolve this. -Annu
|
Hey Imran,
I’m not sure how to bypass the ebrake board. ?I did do some poking around and found the following...
I disconnected the motor wires from the junction box to check if there was any voltage when plugged in the machine but did not hit start or anything else. ?On all three connections where the motors plugged in, there were two spots where I was getting around 85.5V AC. ?As I would move the position switch between the planer, table saw, spindle, I would get 121.8V AC from from a differ point on the motor connections. ?Shouldn’t these both be around the same voltage? ?No idea If this means anything. ?Does anyone have a diagram of the switch wiring?
-Annu
|
Annu,
I am not a motor expert but for single phase you should have two hots (220 VAC) and the 3rd is most likely ground. Do you have an electrical schematic? Usually for felder there is a copy in the electrical area of the machine. I just checked K975 electrical drawing and it shows 3 phase contactor. So in this case, there should not be any voltage until the switch is turned on.
In your last post, if i understood correctly, you had humming when you applied power to the machine and you had not pressed the green button. You saw planer head rock back and forth slightly. If above is correct then ebrake board is very very likely the issue. In a particular Ebrake failure mode, the DC current injection continues until the motor experienced thermal shutdown.?
Since you have a spare ebrake board, I would try that.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 6:54 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Hey Imran,
I’m not sure how to bypass the ebrake board. ?I did do some poking around and found the following...
I disconnected the motor wires from the junction box to check if there was any voltage when plugged in the machine but did not hit start or anything else. ?On all three connections where the motors plugged in, there were two spots where I was getting around 85.5V AC. ?As I would move the position switch between the planer, table saw, spindle, I would get 121.8V AC from from a differ point on the motor connections. ?Shouldn’t these both be around the same voltage? ?No idea If this means anything. ?Does anyone have a diagram of the switch wiring?
-Annu
|
Hey Imran,
I attached a picture of the schematic and a very short video of what happens when I turn on the circuit breaker. ?I did just change out the ebrake board and this is still happening.
-Annu
|
I believe sheet 15 covers J/P motor. Is there sound in video? I do not have sound and really not seeing much happening.
So no change with ebrake board replaced. I assume you connected the motor wires.
Does saw and shaper work normally?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:04 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Hey Imran, I attached a picture of the schematic and a very short video of what happens when I turn on the circuit breaker. ?I did just change out the ebrake board and this is still happening. -Annu
<image.jpg> <63219257286__75572D77-C17D-440F-8401-A60F1EE3B4D6.MOV>
|
imran
