Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
On 1/28/20 2:56 PM, Jason Holtz wrote: I hope Altendorf will licence the tech to other manufacturers. it's probably?? Infra red and that's it.? the mechanics to get the blade to drop?? any one? can figure out: Motor ,Spring, Magnets, Solonoid,? ? all kind? of ways to?? skin that? cat
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Re: Airlines for new shop
Mark,
I agree 100% with your analysis. I needed some of my line to go underground to get closer to where my cars are. PEX is absolutely not allowed to go underground because there are some bugs that will puncture it. So I did not have many choices. The advantage of the RapidAir system is the nice reasonably priced package with components that solve the need for many expensive and space consuming T's and L's and ball valves when you use copper. Each outlet has a moisture drain ball valve and everything is really well made.
BTW, PEX-AL-PEX is used in Europe for years as the standard for water supply and underfloor heating.
Ariel
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Re: Profil45 display error
Hi David,
My 2016 Profile 45z x-motion has about 120mm of spindle travel.
At the lowest the spindle will go it sticks up above the table 46mm to the top of the spindle cap bolt.
Joe in New Orleans
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On Jan 28, 2020, at 3:17 PM, david slater via Groups.Io < davidslater@...> wrote:
Hi Imran,
thank you for all the replies to my issue, I am sorry i did not reply I was unwell and have only just got back to my workshop and to the issues i was having
The problem was apparently an over-voltage issue relating to the replacement display being a newer model and not liking any over voltage whatsoever. In the end up i had to install an additional higher tolerance transformer to power only the display to eliminate the issue.
I now have to re calibrate everything due to the new display unit being installed and I wonder if anyone with this machine can tell me how much spindle travel they have? i.e should the spindle drop below the table completely? At its lowest setting mine still sits around 50mm above the table.
Thanks, David.
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Re: Airlines for new shop
The RapidAir website says it's HDPE, which is also what PEX is.? There are variations of HDPE of course, and their website says theirs is different, but it might be BS.
PEX-AL-PEX is PEX with an aluminum mid layer.? PEX alone is slightly permeable to oxygen, and the AL layer prevents that.? The permeability is not enough to qualify as "leak" in a compressed air system, but it is enough to allow oxygen into water over the long haul and cause?rusting of iron components, so PEX-AL-PEX is used in such conditions.
So basically it looks like RapidAir is PEX-AL-PEX with their own branded fittings.? RapidAir is slightly more expensive than commodity PEX-AL-PEX.?
Joe,
I had to make the same decision about 2 years ago. I ended up going with Rapid Air 3/4". I have a total of 9 drops. I bought 3 Rapid Air kits from Northern Tool as it was the cheapest way to get all the pipe and accessories. It is not hard at all to straighten the pipe by hand and to use electrician EMT bending tool to make nice tight radius when you need it (rarely).
Also bought the?RapidAir Quick Coupler which are very convinient to use
For attaching to the walls I did not use the plastic clips from the kit as they seemed flimsy, instead I used EMT 1-Hole Straps
Copper is a good choice but with the length of pipes that I have and some unusual bend angles it did not make sense. These tubes are really a good modern choice for air in the shop. The plastic-aluminum-plastic structure of the pipe is far superior to PEX and cheaper and in my opinion better than copper. Also the adaptors that come in the kit are well engineered with O-rings etc.
I am very happy with the end result and I always use type L copper (blue) for water...
Ariel
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 11:45 AM, Joe Jensen wrote:
Rapid Air.?
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Re: Profil45 display error
Hi Imran,
thank you for all the replies to my issue, I am sorry i did not reply I was unwell and have only just got back to my workshop and to the issues i was having
The problem was apparently an over-voltage issue relating to the replacement display being a newer model and not liking any over voltage whatsoever. In the end up i had to install an additional higher tolerance transformer to power only the display to eliminate the issue.
I now have to re calibrate everything due to the new display unit being installed and I wonder if anyone with this machine can tell me how much spindle travel they have? i.e should the spindle drop below the table completely? At its lowest setting mine still sits around 50mm above the table.
Thanks, David.
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Re: Airlines for new shop
Joe,
I had to make the same decision about 2 years ago. I ended up going with Rapid Air 3/4". I have a total of 9 drops. I bought 3 Rapid Air kits from Northern Tool as it was the cheapest way to get all the pipe and accessories. It is not hard at all to straighten the pipe by hand and to use electrician EMT bending tool to make nice tight radius when you need it (rarely).
Also bought the?RapidAir Quick Coupler which are very convinient to use
For attaching to the walls I did not use the plastic clips from the kit as they seemed flimsy, instead I used EMT 1-Hole Straps
Copper is a good choice but with the length of pipes that I have and some unusual bend angles it did not make sense. These tubes are really a good modern choice for air in the shop. The plastic-aluminum-plastic structure of the pipe is far superior to PEX and cheaper and in my opinion better than copper. Also the adaptors that come in the kit are well engineered with O-rings etc.
I am very happy with the end result and I always use type L copper (blue) for water...
Ariel
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On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 11:45 AM, Joe Jensen wrote:
Rapid Air.?
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
Very true on the highest end of machines..their kappa 550 with the tilting dual bevel is around $70,000 depending in what options you want..?
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 12:23:06 PM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
I think from the info available the system that Felder devised is probably a more go to. The more technology involved in the detection system the more chance to f__k up. Only time will tell if these even make to the market. So far it's all just talk and available in the highest end machines.?
-------- Original message -------- From: Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> Date: 2020-01-28 2:56 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I guess I need to replace three sliders now lol. I wonder how much my liability insurance would go down? I hope Altendorf will licence the tech to other manufacturers. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I think from the info available the system that Felder devised is probably a more go to. The more technology involved in the detection system the more chance to f__k up. Only time will tell if these even make to the market. So far it's all just talk and available in the highest end machines.?
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> Date: 2020-01-28 2:56 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I guess I need to replace three sliders now lol. I wonder how much my liability insurance would go down? I hope Altendorf will licence the tech to other manufacturers. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I guess I need to replace three sliders now lol. I wonder how much my liability insurance would go down? I hope Altendorf will licence the tech to other manufacturers. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I think all in all..its better than not having anything at all..?
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 11:36:03 AM PST, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
Kind of depends upon the area around the blade that causes it to trip¡. timing would be greater the larger the area.
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.? On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
They really need to incorporate that inside the blade guard or
it'll be knocked? around and broken real quickly.
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
Kind of depends upon the area around the blade that causes it to trip¡. timing would be greater the larger the area.
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Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.? On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
The video confirms the retraction time of about a quarter?second.? The sawstop detection event is flesh contact with blade, so response time needs to be a few milliseconds.? The Altendorf detection event is "hand approaching blade guard" via camera mounted on front of blade guard, and a quarter of a second seems sufficient for that.? ? This system doesn't seem like it'd be much help in a fast slip situation.?
This screenshot is at the instant of detection (camera annotation?is mine)
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Felder e-shop has a graphic showing riving knife thickness.? ?Interestingly, it says non-CE compliant.? I wonder what isn't compliant.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:30 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Riving knives should be less than the kerf but greater than the plate in thickness.? The additional weight of the dado also creates issues when using an injection brake as the brake unit must be? manually adjusted to stop the heavier cutter .? That requires
either a larger brake unit or greatly reduces the number of times per hour the machine can be shut off.? Dave
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard
size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no. 500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left, a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Riving knives should be less than the kerf but greater than the plate in thickness.? The additional weight of the dado also creates issues when using an injection brake as the brake unit must be? manually adjusted to stop the heavier cutter .? That requires
either a larger brake unit or greatly reduces the number of times per hour the machine can be shut off.? Dave
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Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:02:58 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard
size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no. 500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left, a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
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These are great. Thanks for the link.?
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Hammer K3 mobility solution
Hi. I recently acquired a Hammer K3 ?48x48 and with a really small shop space that lives most of its life as my wife¡¯s garage, everything has to be on wheels and able to be moved out of the way when woodworking time comes to an end. The factory mobility kit from Felder wouldn¡¯t work for me and I didn¡¯t like any of the aftermarket rolling bases. Last week I stumbled upon these machinery moving casters on amazon. They only add 1/2¡± to the height of the machine and are very sturdy and glide effortlessly.?
I place a small door stop style wedge under the front wheels when I¡¯m using the machine.?
A set of of is $105. Figured I¡¯d share. ?Search for ¡°Amarite Desk and Cabinet Corner Mover Dolly¡±
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Imran,
?
Did you use any washer with the mounts?? I am thinking of putting a fender washer ()?at the bottom of the chassis, above the bottom nut, to spread out the weight on a A951L and a D963.? BTW, price increased to $6.66 now.??
?
Thanks.
?
SW
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The crew is putting them through places today before we get more but the 3" castors appear to be good enough for the 300lb. rating and roll pretty well on our rough floor, and way nice to have 4-way swivel unlike the harbor freight hydro tables. The hand cranks are sufficient. Without measuring I'd say they could be drill operated with a 10mm hex, but hand isn't really a problem for rapid moves....the metal appears to be pretty hefty, maybe 11ga, and since we work in paint stripping and harsh chemicals we shall learn what grade of paint or powder coat was used soon enough. The top is about 30mm parawood like all the other husky tops, we may overlay our own tops to extend footprint capabilities and discussed boring dominoes into the edges to link them together when larger surfaces require.
In our shop, having a modular system of work tables is key as we are constantly rearranging for projects and being able to nest them away for storage is extremely valuable. They look good, seem easy to use with uneven floors, and I think we will have to work hard to break them.??
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:00 AM < tom@...> wrote: Brett that's fabulous! Do the tables feel reasonably robust? My expectation is that they're not as heavy duty as a hydraulic table, but for ~$150-200 they seem like a nice value. My memory is that the adjustment crank has a hex connection, and that for rapid height adjustments a guy could use a drill with a socket in lieu of the handle?.... I'll chat with the manager at my local Home Depot, see if I can get a similar deal....
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Jason Holtz
