Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Ripping a 12' 2x6 on a jobsite saw that weighs less than the board you're cutting is a challenge as well. You couldn't do it solo anyway. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Mark, Just curious about your need for a zci. Is it solely to keep offcuts from getting sucked down the throat? I know with sufficient dust?collection this is an issue on our KF. I bought one of John Renzatti's inserts years ago, but it's never actually been on the saw. We tilt the blade often enough that it would be a huge hassle.
What's this LED light?business?all about? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Paul, ? Aigner makes a couple of mounting adapters
Dave Davies
As I have the machine in pieces at the moment I have been going through the list of annoyances and inconveniences that I recall when I was last using the machine in anger.
Top of that list was the inability to fit an extension to the front of the thicknesser table which is not fixable on the 10" thicknesser.
Second is the 6 inch gap between the saw table and the planner table that prevents the rip fence traversing smoothly across the full range of the dovetail.
I'm not talking about trying to replace the entire metal plate just a section at the saw end.
Obviously some clearance between the extension and the planner table but no more than 5-6mm.
Has anyone installed an infill or extension piece between the saw table and the planner table on a BF6 Combination machine, either S Coupling or F Coupling and how did you go about mounting it,
bolted to the edge of the saw table or mounted on studs to the machine chassis?
Any thought or engineering opinion on which is the best approach?
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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As I have the machine in pieces at the moment I have been going through the list of annoyances and inconveniences that I recall when I was last using the machine in anger.
Top of that list was the inability to fit an extension to the front of the thicknesser table which is not fixable on the 10" thicknesser.
Second is the 6 inch gap between the saw table and the planner table that prevents the rip fence traversing smoothly across the full range of the dovetail.
I'm not talking about trying to replace the entire metal plate just a section at the saw end.
Obviously some clearance between the extension and the planner table but no more than 5-6mm.
Has anyone installed an infill or extension piece between the saw table and the planner table on a BF6 Combination machine, either S Coupling or F Coupling and how did you go about mounting it,
bolted to the edge of the saw table or mounted on studs to the machine chassis?
Any thought or engineering opinion on which is the best approach?
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Thanks Michael, putting down another vote for the Bosch! ?
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Hi Bill,
I said most not all.
I still hear from my wife that grandpa built two houses with circular saw as his only power tool so why do I need this workshop, LOL
Imran?
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On Jan 21, 2021, at 8:25 AM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote: ?On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 10:39 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Miter saw or circular saw
If you made your own roof and want a backer for your fascia board at the ends of the rafters, you usually ripped the edge of this backer to match the slope of the roof. A job site table saw will help. A circular saw can do the job, but on 12 ft long 2x6 this is not an easy job. Bill
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
I haven’t tried it personally but if I was in the same boat I would have a hard look at the sawstop jobsite saw and try to give it a run side by side with the others. I have the DEWALT and no complaints on that. It was inexpensive, good eneough power, and the
fence is quite stable. ?I also bought it years ago before the sawstop was available. But after using a slider and hold downs, when I do use it I am getting a lot closer to a blade than I am comfortable with. Seems to have excellent reviews as well.?
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry?
Get
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On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 10:39 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Miter saw or circular saw
If you made your own roof and want a backer for your fascia board at the ends of the rafters, you usually ripped the edge of this backer to match the slope of the roof. A job site table saw will help. A circular saw can do the job, but on 12 ft long 2x6 this
is not an easy job.
Bill
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Mark,?
Love that dovetail detail for parts that dont fit on the 3d bed. I will have to remember that trick for future projects. ?What software are you using for your design? ?Sorry if you already mentioned it. ?
Looking fantastic,?
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BTW, plastic is safer than metal to have around the blade. Are you having the parts milled (i think you mentioned AL) because some portions of the design are too thin to be robust in plastic?
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 10:39 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Miter saw or circular saw
If you made your own roof and want a backer for your fascia board at the ends of the rafters, you usually ripped the edge of this backer to match the slope of the roof. A job site table saw will help. A circular saw can do the job, but on 12 ft long 2x6 this is not an easy job. Bill
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This looks great, will your ZCI work on a new Kappa 400 I have coming with the led scoring lights? Sure would like a ZCI option on my new saw.?
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Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Greg,
Since the tablesaw motor works in the shaper connector and position, at least you know that your motor is good. ?Since you have changed out the selector switch and it’s doing the same thing, you probably are good there as well. ?I’m not familiar with the 731, but does it have some sort of limit switch just for the table saw? ?For instance, on my c3-31, there is a limit switch on the panel to access the shaper motor and a limit switch that makes sure the jointer table is locked down or that the dust hood in the planer setup is engaged and not exposing the rotating planer head. ?It could be that one of your limit switches is bad and not letting the saw engage. ?Do you have a wiring diagram that you can share?
-Annu
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Learned a important lesson today...
Now that I have Brian’s parallel arms on the slider, I never move the original c31 fence from the jointer. ?Today I forgot to make sure it was tighten down to the rail before I lifted the table to use the planer. ?The fence fell hard on the floor and now has a slight twist. ?I had originally hoped to file down the impact bumps, but I can’t get a 90 across the length of it any more. ?More money for felder as I await a replacement.
-Annu
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Anthony,
I am not sure if your dad will work on anything large in size. The dewalt and bosch contractor saws are table top models, correct? At least these are the most common.
Anyhow, just curious if you need something with heft to support larger work pieces. Not sure if you can have a heavier saw right now for the current situation.
Final comment, I have built two structures and it is rare to need a table saw for framing. Miter saw or circular saw do most if not all of the work. So maybe get your dad something that would suit him best and not be diluted by the current construction. Maybe, contractor saw is all he needs and in that case ignore this msg.
Final, final word. Theft is not uncommon on job sites and especially a saw like Erika could momentarily cloud even a somewhat honest workers judgement.
Imran?
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote: ? As mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.? Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and until I move into the bigger space where I will get another slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own tools, but I will be helping out and will want to be making things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ?
?
Any recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive rips and cross cuts (with sled). ?
?
I believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the Erika be at the top of the list? ?
?
I also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an addition I want to give him a little thank you and upgrade his 40 year old “job site saw.”
?
thanks so much,?
Anthony?
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
I own a Bosch jobsite saw, it has many good features and performs well.
One of the few negatives are the slots for the mitre gauge. They are well under standard size, and only fit the simple gauge that comes with the saw. That means no ultra adjustable gauges like an Incra etc.
It also means standard accessories like most? featherboards won't fit.?I don't know if it applies to saws in your country, but before buying you should find out if the saw has standard
mitre slots, in case that effects how you might use it.
Also the thicker Euro shaft will prevent you from using standard US,? 5/8" shaft sized saw blades, dado stacks etc.?
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Anthony ,,,,Erica takes 30 mm bore as does Elu flip saw!
Designing and building for 50 years
On Jan 20, 2021, at 6:15 PM, Michael Marsico <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
?
I had a Bosch for a number of years and used it for everything until i bought my first felder in 2018. ? I liked it and it worked well -
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 7:13 PM Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote:
Jim,?
thanks for the recommendation!? I will certainly add the Bosch to the list.? I have had been pleased with the Bosch tools in my shop and it is great to hear about your experience as an everyday saw in the field.? Thanks again for taking the time to share!
Best,?
Anthony?
On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Jim Gaynor via < jgaynor57@...> wrote:
Anthony
I would check out Bosch's latest offering. I have used two different generations of their jobsite saws, and it exceeded expectations as we do house trim and kitchen installation for Habitat. The fence, riving knife, and extension table just seem to reflect
a quality that we come to expect on a cabinet saw. I assume several brands are made at the same factory these days, but I have found myself throwing yellow power tools away in the last five years. The reliability has been disappointing, but they have been
primarily battery tools so it may not be relevant to your search for a jobsite saw.
Jim
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 12:17:01 PM EST, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote:
As mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.? Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and until I move into the bigger space where I will get another slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own tools, but
I will be helping out and will want to be making things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ?
?
Any recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive rips and cross cuts (with sled). ?
?
I believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the Erika
be at the top of the list? ?
?
I also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an addition I want to
give him a little thank you and upgrade his 40 year old “job site saw.”
?
thanks so much,?
Anthony?
--
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Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Greg,
For switches, just use the continuity test. Each ON and OFF switch has a redundant terminal on my machine. Just put the meter probes in the unused holes and look for short (red NC) or open (green NO). Also check for state change when the button is pushed.
Per my other msg, switch fault is not my first choice because they have gone bad on mine (start sw) but it does not create the situation where power cycle is needed.
Imran
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:38 PM, Greg Goldin <goldinarch@...> wrote: ?Hi Imran,
What is the connector?
I took the wires off the stop switches for my table saw (the factory installed switch and one I installed to operate the saw from the sliding table).? With the wires dangling, as expected, the entire machine would not operate.? It was as if the a stop button was N/O.? I then tied the wires together, avoiding the switches, and, just as expected, the same malfunction occurred.?
I did notice, however, that the K-2 relay closed.? But K-1, which is downstream and latches to send the 3 phases to the motors, did not close, so no action on that motor.
Will the strangeness ever cease.
Tomorrow, time permitting, I'm going to review every wire that I diagrammed to see where the "as is" diverges from the Felder wiring diagram.
Thanks again, Imran!
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Re: Job site saw recommendation?
one consideration is? will there be heights involved.? If so get
a saw that you won't be too off-put when it takes a 30 foot
header.
On 1/20/21 12:16 PM, Anthony Quesada
wrote:
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Show quoted text
As
mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.?
Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and
until I move into the bigger space where I will get another
slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own
tools, but I will be helping out and will want to be making
things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ?
?
Any
recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the
barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I
have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive
rips and cross cuts (with sled). ?
?
I
believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I
have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a
fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from
those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the
Erika be at the top of the list? ?
?
I
also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop
space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in
learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so
graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an
addition I want to give him a little thank you and upgrade his
40 year old “job site saw.”
?
thanks
so much,?
Anthony?
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Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Greg,
From what I gather, for each motor circuit, there is a connector between the selector switch and the motor. This is where you plugged shaper motor into table saw cable from selector switch and it did not work. Similarly, tablesaw motor plugged into the shaper cable from selector switch worked. To me this shows that the issue is between the selector switch and the cable connector on the table saw circuit.
Check the connector to ensure pins are not bent and shorted (I do not know if this is possible as I do not know what the inside of this connector looks like).
Check each wire from this connector, all the way to the selector switch to make sure wire insulation is not compromised resulting in a short between wires or between a wire and machine chassis.
I am assuming there is nothing but wire between selector switch and this connector. If there is another component (relay, etc) then that needs to be checked out.
Imran
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:38 PM, Greg Goldin <goldinarch@...> wrote: ?Hi Imran,
What is the connector?
I took the wires off the stop switches for my table saw (the factory installed switch and one I installed to operate the saw from the sliding table).? With the wires dangling, as expected, the entire machine would not operate.? It was as if the a stop button was N/O.? I then tied the wires together, avoiding the switches, and, just as expected, the same malfunction occurred.?
I did notice, however, that the K-2 relay closed.? But K-1, which is downstream and latches to send the 3 phases to the motors, did not close, so no action on that motor.
Will the strangeness ever cease.
Tomorrow, time permitting, I'm going to review every wire that I diagrammed to see where the "as is" diverges from the Felder wiring diagram.
Thanks again, Imran!
|
Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Hi Imran,
What is the connector?
I took the wires off the stop switches for my table saw (the factory installed switch and one I installed to operate the saw from the sliding table).? With the wires dangling, as expected, the entire machine would not operate.? It was as if the a stop button was N/O.? I then tied the wires together, avoiding the switches, and, just as expected, the same malfunction occurred.?
I did notice, however, that the K-2 relay closed.? But K-1, which is downstream and latches to send the 3 phases to the motors, did not close, so no action on that motor.
Will the strangeness ever cease.
Tomorrow, time permitting, I'm going to review every wire that I diagrammed to see where the "as is" diverges from the Felder wiring diagram.
Thanks again, Imran!
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Mark,
That looks great. BTW, plastic is safer than metal to have around the blade. Are you having the parts milled (i think you mentioned AL) because some portions of the design are too thin to be robust in plastic?
Imran?
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Welp looks like I am ready to have metal cut.?
- The scoring section was to long to fit on the 3d print bed so I made it in 2 pieces and connected it with a half lap dovetail. - I modified the pockets for the dust shield to allow a little more adjustment, could have just made them go through the top except it would have left a corner that houses the LED unsupported and somewhat floating in space, probably ok but not as clean (of course would be hidden by the wood insert but...) - I tapped the holes for the insert, I don’t like the m8 flat heads so close to the blade, probably ok but may just use some low head cap screws which are narrower and low because the insert is only 8mm thick but they are expensive and I can be cheap - out of the bazillion bolts we have at work in the assembly areas and the tool crib I can’t find any... could bling it up and use brass but then I would just be show boating ? - The wood insert shown I just banged out tonight so not so refined, still need to cut the slot for the riving knife and will probably use it as is until the completed parts arrive - ?I also 3d printed a fixture to do the cutout with a 3/8” flush trim bit which should be done tomorrow?
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg> <image3.jpeg>
On Jan 20, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote:
?Mark,?
Sorry that you weren't able to purchase a ZCI, but selfishly I'm very much enjoying watching you work though this design. ?Very impressive! ?
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Mark,
Unfortunately it is true that the blade tilt axis is not fixed, you use the term zero tilt. The saw unit is hung at the edge of the cast iron from 2 pins (one in front and the other in rear). Not sure if this arrangement is incompatible with zero tilt or not. Sometime ago it occurred to me that I should check with blade fully elevated, may be in that position it is zero tilt but I have not checked.
Imran
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 9:37 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran, missed your question below about measurement when blade tilted. Haven't checked but it should as it is zero tilt, you sure the k975 isn’t a zero tilt? On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:47 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Mark,
That is so cool, thanks for sharing. BTW, does your K940 maintain rip fence measurement when blade is tilted? My KF does but it was a surprised to learn that it did not on K975 - only found out after purchase.
I plan to get into modeling once this pandemic is over. Last summer I tumbled onto a little known detail that, in Ohio, residents over 60 (IIRC the exact age) can attend/audit classes in state institutions for free. I checked and Indiana has the same policy. So i called our vocational school, Ivy Tech, and they confirmed. Tuition is waved but there could still be other costs like computer/lab use. I plan to take 3D modeling and welding.
Imran
On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:19 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Hey Imran, looks like I left out some key details, there are so many for such a simple thing really.?
The white blob is silicone, looks like they filled most of the internal pockets of the factory section with silicone, to hold it in place and to diffuse the light. The LED’s don’t even line up with the holes. The gray parts are the factory supplied parts.
Yes the first step was to redraw/ model the exact parts that felder supplied to their dimensions, i then extruded down about 8mm for the wood insert and add the tap locations for the bolts to hole the wood insert. At that point i had to extrude pockets on the backside for the LED wiring and there is a little metal dust shield that required space relived, there are some other minor tweaks that were required to make it work.?
When I bolted on the 3d printed part it actually lined up dead flush with the cast, I would prefer a little adjustment so I had to drill out the washer of the bolt that holds the part onto the cast by .5 mm and that dust shield, had to file a flat on the washer so the part could have a little room to drop below the table if needed.?
I was resisting and really wanted to just buy it so I could get back to building furniture but couldn’t take the random flying pieces of wood anymore, One of the big drawbacks of a zci for me is that you have to remove it for angle cuts but yet in another plus of moving up to the k940 over the k700 is that you don’t have to remove it to change the angle, at least with a 300mm blade which is what I use.?
Felder should offer it but I think it would be pretty costly, they could recut the mold for the Injection molded parts but the parts they are getting out now (at least the ones on my machine) are pretty low quality, lots of shrinkage probably due to injecting too fast, cooling to fast I doubt they did a a flow analysis- could probably improve the part with scientific molding but even then plastic isn’t really the right material to base a ZCI off of for this machine config, could be done but metal as the base would be better.?
Here are some additional screen shots for clarification.
Here is the dust shield with the clipped washers? <image6.jpeg> <image7.jpeg> <image8.jpeg>
On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:29 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Looks Awesome. What is the white blob looking thing at the end of LED strip?
So looks like you are recreating what felder supplies. Is this 1st step to make ZCI?
I need one terribly for K975. I bought 2 for KF700 and never installed them. It was not bad because I do not have scoring. I think scoring just exacerbates the situation and cutoffs are violent. IMHO, OEM should consider ZCI implementation when designing the saw.
Imran
On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:27 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? So I decided I needed a zci for the new k940, thought I would get away without one but here I am... I reached out to David Best as I knew he had made one for the kappa. The k940 saw unit, top casting and 3 plastic segments appear to be the same however I have the LED lights so wasn’t sure if David would be willing to modify his design and if it would be worth the time/cost to do so. After a few back and forth emails David decided to not take it on, a few key dimensions were slightly different and could require a few iterations to get it right which I agreed.?
David was so kind in allowing me to use his drawings, however after I started to model it and compared it to my parts in hand it wasn’t adding up so I had to abandon the drawings given and just start from scratch from my actual parts.
So the first task was to model the LED section first as it is the most difficult to work out, then 3d print, check fit and make adjustments (done) After that 3d print all the parts to confirm (tomorrow) and finally have machined in aluminum (tbd)
The other unknown was how was the LED installed, the only way to find out was to remove it which would obviously void the warranty but after studying the elect schematic and looking at the parts drawings I convinced myself that it was no big deal and easy to fix if I screwed up the LED strip.?
So here are some progress pics... note, the 3d printed LED section is short due the the 3D printer bed not being long enough, a bolt hole is missing so it is not tight against the cast...
??
Below is the auto score feature in action with the as delivered LED section? <image0.png> <image1.png> <image2.png> <image3.jpeg> <image4.jpeg> <image5.jpeg> <image6.jpeg> <Video.MOV>
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Jason Holtz
imran
JP Rice