Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
A lot of what is theoretical vs. practical is dependent upon the rigidity of the machine. You might be able to really put rpm and ipm to use in a big Onsrud or Thermwood router, be at 1/2 or 1/4 of that with a ShopSabre or Camaster type machine and well below that with a light duty table top type machine. Doesn¡¯t mean the carbide cutter shouldn¡¯t be running at 88k rpm and 880ipm ?(for a two fluter), it is more that the machine can¡¯t sustain those types of forces and speeds.
In metalworking we deal with SFPM, chip load per tooth, depth of cut and axial cut all the time. All of it vary much dependent upon the machine you are trying to use.
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The problem?with math is that it is theoretical until proven in practice. In regular?math calculations, my CNC router should?run maxed out 24k rpms and burn up the material at 2000ipm. But, in reality it is happier in most wood materials running in the 16k to 18k range and much lower speeds like 250-500ipm sometimes?in tougher plywoods, but more like 10-12 ipm in hardwoods with grain problems and a lot of tool engagement. I can and have caused situations where the cutter force is so great the workholding just can't resist it and pieces slide. So there's that. Also nearly every bit I've broken has been from flexing/vibration fatigue.
I find two major reasons for lower router speeds in regular router tables - 1) to keep from burning up guide bearings and getting too much heat from shaft flex (esp. with 1/4" shafts), 2) the frequency and poles of most of the drive motors mean the range they run is a happy compromise between torque/hp/speed for most practical?uses and available motor configurations.
But my feeling with the 15k rpm router spindle in the shaper table is mostly that it is a sweetly smooth running setup, and feeling how hard it pushes your bits you are probably more likely to cause the bit shaft to heat up and break before anything else on a shaper. Yes, I've done that too. Increasing the rpms creates a pulley-ratio problem as well as a vibration-safety problem. Also as at some point you get the spindle pulley bigger than the bearings and now the shaper spindle isn't going to fit in the machine - somewhere in these thoughts is most likely the culprit as to why the router spindle OEM setting is 15k.? On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:59 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: Pretty simple to figure out, they claim the sweet spot is 60m/second. You take 60 (m/s)x1000 (mm per m) x60 (seconds per minute)= 3,600,000 mm per minute. Then you calculate the circumference, say it¡¯s a 13mm router bit (close to 1/2¡±), so 3.1416x13=40.84mm circumference. 3,600,000/40.84=88,148 rpm.?
Unless I f¡¯ed up my math, you are not ever going to get that sort of rpm, fastest CNC routers I¡¯ve seen are in the 28k to 32k rpm. So all of this is a mute point, suffice it to say, the rpm that the Felder router spindle spins (15k on non VFD machines, 20k on VFD machines) is more than sufficient to work well with all but the smallest of cutters, I¡¯ve tried 3/16 and not so good, 1/4¡± and up seem to work fine. The larger your diameter of cutter the slower the rpm can be.
My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg>
lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage.
There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg>
I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle?
Imran ? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via ??<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part. Look at this on eBay
Imran ?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
The problem?with math is that it is theoretical until proven in practice. In regular?math calculations, my CNC router should?run maxed out 24k rpms and burn up the material at 2000ipm. But, in reality it is happier in most wood materials running in the 16k to 18k range and much lower speeds like 250-500ipm sometimes?in tougher plywoods, but more like 10-12 ipm in hardwoods with grain problems and a lot of tool engagement. I can and have caused situations where the cutter force is so great the workholding just can't resist it and pieces slide. So there's that. Also nearly every bit I've broken has been from flexing/vibration fatigue.
I find two major reasons for lower router speeds in regular router tables - 1) to keep from burning up guide bearings and getting too much heat from shaft flex (esp. with 1/4" shafts), 2) the frequency and poles of most of the drive motors mean the range they run is a happy compromise between torque/hp/speed for most practical?uses and available motor configurations.
But my feeling with the 15k rpm router spindle in the shaper table is mostly that it is a sweetly smooth running setup, and feeling how hard it pushes your bits you are probably more likely to cause the bit shaft to heat up and break before anything else on a shaper. Yes, I've done that too. Increasing the rpms creates a pulley-ratio problem as well as a vibration-safety problem. Also as at some point you get the spindle pulley bigger than the bearings and now the shaper spindle isn't going to fit in the machine - somewhere in these thoughts is most likely the culprit as to why the router spindle OEM setting is 15k.?
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:59 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: Pretty simple to figure out, they claim the sweet spot is 60m/second. You take 60 (m/s)x1000 (mm per m) x60 (seconds per minute)= 3,600,000 mm per minute. Then you calculate the circumference, say it¡¯s a 13mm router bit (close to 1/2¡±), so 3.1416x13=40.84mm circumference. 3,600,000/40.84=88,148 rpm.?
Unless I f¡¯ed up my math, you are not ever going to get that sort of rpm, fastest CNC routers I¡¯ve seen are in the 28k to 32k rpm. So all of this is a mute point, suffice it to say, the rpm that the Felder router spindle spins (15k on non VFD machines, 20k on VFD machines) is more than sufficient to work well with all but the smallest of cutters, I¡¯ve tried 3/16 and not so good, 1/4¡± and up seem to work fine. The larger your diameter of cutter the slower the rpm can be.
My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg>
lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage.
There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg>
I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle?
Imran ? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via ??<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part. Look at this on eBay
Imran ?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
Hi Well I too use my Felder high speed router and have no problems at all with all sizes of bit. When using larger bits I just slow the feed speed down, using my ears gives me the desired speed, my experience with small bits at high speed is that you burn the bit! Modern quality bits work best in my opinion in the mid range of speeds and are very forgiving! Over the years I¡¯ve continually slowed my RPM down and if the bit allows I tend to take a micro cut in a reverse feed direction for a totally perfect finish.. ie. no sanding required! Finally I use the Felder for all inverted table cuts as it¡¯s rock solid with no chatter! You¡¯d be shocked if you could see the chatter on a hand held router with medium and above bits!
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On 28 Dec 2020, at 17:48, Michael Marsico <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
? I don¡¯t know the engineering but have used the high speed router spindle with router bits and have not had any issues ? ? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Janson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote: Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part.
<~WRD0001.jpg> Look at this on eBay
Imran ?
|
Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
Pretty simple to figure out, they claim the sweet spot is 60m/second. You take 60 (m/s)x1000 (mm per m) x60 (seconds per minute)= 3,600,000 mm per minute. Then you calculate the circumference, say it¡¯s a 13mm router bit (close to 1/2¡±), so 3.1416x13=40.84mm circumference. 3,600,000/40.84=88,148 rpm.?
Unless I f¡¯ed up my math, you are not ever going to get that sort of rpm, fastest CNC routers I¡¯ve seen are in the 28k to 32k rpm. So all of this is a mute point, suffice it to say, the rpm that the Felder router spindle spins (15k on non VFD machines, 20k on VFD machines) is more than sufficient to work well with all but the smallest of cutters, I¡¯ve tried 3/16 and not so good, 1/4¡± and up seem to work fine. The larger your diameter of cutter the slower the rpm can be.
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Show quoted text
My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg>
lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage.
There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg>
I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle?
Imran ? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via ??<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part. Look at this on eBay
Imran ?
|
Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
I don¡¯t know the engineering but have used the high speed router spindle with router bits and have not had any issues ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe Jensen Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 12:02 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Janson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote: Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part.
Look at this on eBay
Imran ?
|
Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
would be interesting to put the data points from the 4 graphs to see if the relationship is linear. If so we can easily extrapolate if fir router use.
Imran
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On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:35 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s
lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage.
There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b
I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle?
Imran
On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote:
?
Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate
and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.?
?
I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously,
and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference.
?
Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router
bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose?
?
Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is
the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot.
?
So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow?
?
?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
?
This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are
going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings.
?
On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part.
Look at this on eBay
Imran
?
|
Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s
lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage.
There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b
I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote: ?
Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate
and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.?
?
I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously,
and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference.
?
Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router
bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose?
?
Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is
the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot.
?
So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow?
?
?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
?
This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are
going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings.
?
On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part.
Look at this on eBay
Imran
?
|
Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate
and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.?
?
I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously,
and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference.
?
Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router
bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose?
?
Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is
the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot.
?
So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow?
?
?
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
?
This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are
going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings.
?
On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part.
Look at this on eBay
Imran
?
|
Re: Fine Adjustment for Rip Fence on Hammer B3
My fine adjustment is? a 1" travel dial indicator and a little
clamp to hold the indicator in place.??
If course? the real issue with that saw is the Factory Rip
Fence.? It is a horror show of? cheesy incompetent design and crap
engineering and shoddy materials.? I made a version that is way
more sturdy? rigid
?and smoother to use? it's sort of like
the one that Very Super Cool Tools sells only better.?? You might
look up their Euro? Fence and see what you think of it before
pouring cash into that? factory fence.
On 12/15/20 11:56 PM, Brian wrote:
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I recently picked up a slightly used (2017) Hammer B3 Winner.? I'm
considering adding the Fine Adjustment mechanism that Felder
sells.? The original owner added a Wixey DRO, so there could be
some added benefit to being able to make precise adjustments.?
(I'm still deciding if the Wixey is worth some of its quirks).?
I've looked for posts about this option, but can't seemed to find
any.? It's $201 on Felder's website, which is I guess reasonable
for Felder.? It looks pretty simple, 2 threaded knobs, nuts,
washers, and a piece of machined steel that slides on the guide
rail and the knobs thread onto.? Any thoughts or experience using
it on your Hammer's would be appreciated.
I'm also looking for a blade guard.? The stock one was damaged, so
I can either order a replacement from Felder ($75) or look at
other alternatives.? I'm planning to hook up dust collection to
it, so an alternative would need to work that.??
Thanks
|
Thanks David,?
I had a friend who had the JET 12¡± combo too. He didn¡¯t have a great experience with his either.?
Cheers
Michael ¡®
|
File /Manuals & Drawings/Felder Surface Planer A951 L Operating manual 2017.pdf uploaded
#file-notice
The following files have been uploaded to
the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Bill James
Description:
A 951 L 2017 Manual
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Re: Fine Adjustment for Rip Fence on Hammer B3
Brian,
I have a brand new, stock blade guard you can have for 25.00 plus shipping if your interested.
Regards, Tony Rodoracio
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric
On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part. Look at this on eBay
Imran
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Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
Just sharing. I have no knowledge of this part. Look at this on eBay
Imran
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Re: Fine Adjustment for Rip Fence on Hammer B3
I am sorry if I am the cause of your discomfort, Mark :)
Curious minds would like to know what it is that upsets you so?
For reference, the Wixey in question is attached with a rare earth magnet, and this offers a secure fitting. The Wixey was a refugee from a previous tablesaw, so it was "free". This has been a useful addition, bearing in mind that the slider is now used more than the rip fence. The Fiama looks nice and would be neater, but perhaps for another time.
I liked the precision and ability to return to settings, and added a similar set up to a Hammer N4400 bandsaw. Useful, for example, when re-sawing and for joinery, such as tenon cheeks.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: Machinery Choice and Workshop Layout
how it is setup now, I cant pull it all the way back but it will allow me to cut 8x4 sheet. 3200 will be fine, I got this 3800mm slider cos it was a factory shutdown auction. otherwise I would have settled for something no bigger than 2500mm. I dont need the lengths beyond 2500mm.
You could place the bandsaw like how I placed mine, nicely tucked in the dead zone behind the panel saw.?
not to mention my extractor takes out a fairly big chunk of space in the workshop!?
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Re: Easy-Lock & Quick-Lock
Wowzers, they are really over thinking it. Appears Felder engineers have too much time on their hands.
Imran
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On Dec 26, 2020, at 10:40 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? The ¡°short leg¡± is what Felder intends to be the ¡°leveling leg.¡± ?This is Austrian engineering at it¡¯s finest. ?Felder anticipates that many people will not be adding leveling feet to all four corners, ?and will probably have the machine just sitting squat on the floor. ?On an uneven floor, that would mean three points would be on the floor, the 4th point would not. ?So they purposely shortened one leg with the expectation that it would be jacked up to ensure the machine doesn¡¯t rock and tilt. ?My Kappa came with one leveling foot for that purpose. ?It is the case that if the floor is dead flat, the machine will rock about if the leveling foot isn¡¯t installed - I tested that bit.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Actually, weirdly, there are only 2 holes pre drilled on the inboard side - one on each ¡°leg¡± for seems about a 3/8¡± hole. One ¡°leg¡± is shorter than all the others and had one leveler installed. The other two corners beneath the slider had no holes at all so I drilled for the 3/8¡± studded feet that I had but will need to open them all up to the 1/2¡±.? ? I¡¯m surprised you can get 1/2¡± studs into the holes on the bottom of the machine chassis. ?Every Felder machine I have or have seen has 11mm holes, which is too small for a 1/2¡± stud.
This is what I used on my Kappa 400:
<screenshot_4574.jpeg>
<IMG_2895.jpeg>
Yes, used a 2¡± pad version of the below from mcmaster, seemed fine on the k700 and one corner is like 1.5¡± - 2¡± in the air. Doesn¡¯t seem enough on the k940 so i am installing 4¡± with 1/2¡± stud and extra thick oversized washers only because the ones u get at the big box are junk... using the grade 8 jam nut because one corner needs to be as close to the floor as I can get, should be ok.
<image1.jpeg>
? Thanks Mark, your photo explains it well. Question did you use leveling feet on your K700S? The layout drawing shows them, looks like 8 of them. Unfortunately my floor is not very level where my saw goes and I have had to shim/use levelers with all of my past saws in my shop. After 20+ yrs I am thinking about hiring a company to grind the floor to level out the high spots and put on a nice epoxy coating before the arrival of my new K700S 20 weeks from now.? Pat Rice
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Re: Easy-Lock & Quick-Lock
The ¡°short leg¡± is what Felder intends to be the ¡°leveling leg.¡± ?This is Austrian engineering at it¡¯s finest. ?Felder anticipates that many people will not be adding leveling feet to all four corners, ?and will probably have the machine just sitting squat on the floor. ?On an uneven floor, that would mean three points would be on the floor, the 4th point would not. ?So they purposely shortened one leg with the expectation that it would be jacked up to ensure the machine doesn¡¯t rock and tilt. ?My Kappa came with one leveling foot for that purpose. ?It is the case that if the floor is dead flat, the machine will rock about if the leveling foot isn¡¯t installed - I tested that bit.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Actually, weirdly, there are only 2 holes pre drilled on the inboard side - one on each ¡°leg¡± for seems about a 3/8¡± hole. One ¡°leg¡± is shorter than all the others and had one leveler installed. The other two corners beneath the slider had no holes at all so I drilled for the 3/8¡± studded feet that I had but will need to open them all up to the 1/2¡±.? ? I¡¯m surprised you can get 1/2¡± studs into the holes on the bottom of the machine chassis. ?Every Felder machine I have or have seen has 11mm holes, which is too small for a 1/2¡± stud.
This is what I used on my Kappa 400:
<screenshot_4574.jpeg>
<IMG_2895.jpeg>
Yes, used a 2¡± pad version of the below from mcmaster, seemed fine on the k700 and one corner is like 1.5¡± - 2¡± in the air. Doesn¡¯t seem enough on the k940 so i am installing 4¡± with 1/2¡± stud and extra thick oversized washers only because the ones u get at the big box are junk... using the grade 8 jam nut because one corner needs to be as close to the floor as I can get, should be ok.
<image1.jpeg>
? Thanks Mark, your photo explains it well. Question did you use leveling feet on your K700S? The layout drawing shows them, looks like 8 of them. Unfortunately my floor is not very level where my saw goes and I have had to shim/use levelers with all of my past saws in my shop. After 20+ yrs I am thinking about hiring a company to grind the floor to level out the high spots and put on a nice epoxy coating before the arrival of my new K700S 20 weeks from now.? Pat Rice
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Agreed that there is no heat issue.? There's a pull out tray, air space, then insulation.?
Joe, I don't have a lot of the Bolivian rosewood,? but using it for details where it's tight grain is highlighted helps conserve it.
Those Viking range tops are designed to be installed into residential cabinetry.?
Won¡¯t be an issue in that cart.?
Have no idea on your hot plate.? All appliances have an accompanying data sheet that will spec its limitations.?
D ?Nice!? Question...do you worry about the heat from the range affecting the wood cabinet's top?? Is there a layer of insulation between the range and the wood top?? Or is the heat not a problem?? I have a commercial hot plate that in need of something similar to your cabinet, but have not looked into the heat problem (if there is one).??
SW
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Re: Easy-Lock & Quick-Lock
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 06:36 PM, Shinta Wakahisa wrote:
Both the A951L and D963 have a shorter corner and come with an adjusting screw already installed to level the machine.?
Does this help in moving the machine? i.e. getting a pallet jack under which otherwise be too wide? Imran
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imran
Joe Jensen
Albert Lee
David P. Best