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Scouting for a useful and low-cost battery bank, I would like to know - are some of you using a used EV car battery (50-80% remaining) for powering your boat ? If so, how ? I would like to wait to spend BIG bucks for a large new bank, so this might be an alternative, until the battery technology has come up at a higher level. Cheers, Carsten

Check out this clever guy, he knows something about the Ant BMS : DIY 48v LiFePO4 Battery w/ $72 Bluetooth ANT BMS (low temp cut-off!) DIY 48v LiFePO4 Battery w/ $72 Bluetooth ANT BMS (low temp cut-off!)

The reason for "western" supervisors/inspectors to come to China is to inspect the products, representing their company. In my opinion, letting chinese inspect chinese products meant for export is letting the wolves herding the sheeps. Being working as a supervisor and inspector in South Korea and China for several years, I know the situation. I did even teach a few chinese inspectors. A few would learn, a few not. Chinese are nice people, in general. Just like us. But limited by their "rich and ancient" culture (read : stiff) and the big brother party in charge. Chinese grow up under different circumstances than westerners do. The perception of "quality" is not the same as our western standards, which is to conform to the standards. When you're a chinese inspector in China (working for a supervising agency, on behalf of the missing inspectors from outside), you are bound to have very good relationships with your customers (the suppliers you visit), so they will talk nice of you to your boss, and this helps tremendously for your promotion. You pass almost everything = you are a good inspector that can make things work for all parties. You reject the crap = you are a problem for the customer and the agency. You stall production flow. So, you don't reject anything, in general, no matter how much BS they make. If you do wrong more than once, you will soon be out of work. If doing well, a promotion is in sight, or a job change to one of your customers (I have seen that many times). That is why western companies spend millions sending their own unbiased representatives, to check suppliers abroad unbiased. And now they are absent. Make your own thoughts. ** Unless I can go to the production facility myself to check and mark a batch of LiFePO4's for own use, I intend to buy some used EV batteries. With my use of them, they may outlast the boat, with same capacity left. Thanks Myles, for the positive experiences you have shared ! If you want new LiFePO4 batteries - until the world gets back to normal, spend some extra bucks and pay guys like Jeff for a reliable battery bank, instead of fighting a chinese company. Jeff is just starting his business (cadeau !), and he don't want to get a bad reputation at startup, right ?

The wiki page Home has been updated by jeff@.... Compare Revisions

This is the second year of The Gustave Trouvé Awards for Excellence in Electric Boats and Boating. Anyone can nominate a boat (there is no charge) in any of five categories: Electric Boats Under 8m, Over 8m, Designed for Paying Passengers, Customized/DIY and Electric Sailboats. Here is the nomination page. Here are all the boats nominated so far, there is a link there to the nomnations page. https://plugboats.com/2021-gussies-electric-boat-awards-under-8m-26-ft/

This is probably a really silly question, but.... Is it possible to find a 120V AC motor that can be speed controlled (and maybe even reversed??) for at least a proof of concept on a boat? For those of us that prefer electric motors to gas or diesel engines, but are challenged by the investment of a huge battery bank, wouldn't it be cool if we could run an AC motor off an inverter from whatever battery bank we have handy, and use a generator to supplement - or just run off the generator entirely at first? We've discussed the efficiency gain of running off a higher voltage / lower current. I'm guessing that there just isn't a suitable way to control and/or reverse an AC motor?? John

Nice job, Dan !! Could you provide me the drawing of your shaft, large wheel and bearings setup, please ? My system will be almost of same power, prop and reduction. Carsten Sendt fra Yahoo Mail p? Android P? fre., den 4. jun. 2021 klokken 1:01, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> skrev: I am getting close to installing my electric motor and reduction drive. Yesterday I got the motor mounted to the reduction gear and did a bench test. My design has a large double roller angular contact bearing for thrust and a smaller flange mount bearing for a pilot on the front of the shaft. My runout at the end of the output shaft (where coupler mounts) is about .001". Without the pilot bearing it was .005". I posted some short videos here of my bench testing. http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_motor_video.htm Some details: Boat - Pearson 10M Disp - 13,000 Hull Speed - 7.1 Electric Drive Setup - ME1616 (12kW), Sevcon 4, LiFePo4 48V 280AH 3:1 reduction, 18" feathering prop w/variable pitch The thrust bearing is a 5207 double roller angular contact ball bearing that is the same type but several sizes larger than the thrust bearing in my old Walter V-Drive that was in service with my 23hp Volvo for 43 years. I fabricated an aluminum housing for it. After considering the size and weight of the output pulley I decided to add the front cover with with the pilot bearing made from a basic flange mounted bearing (UCF205-16) that is self aligning. I need to remove the front cover to change the belt which is not ideal. But I thought the better support for the output shaft was a worthwhile tradeoff. I hope to be on the water in a couple weeks. I still have to install the electrical components, assemble the main battery, install the cooling system and launch the boat. Dan Pfeiffer

I am getting close to installing my electric motor and reduction drive. Yesterday I got the motor mounted to the reduction gear and did a bench test. My design has a large double roller angular contact bearing for thrust and a smaller flange mount bearing for a pilot on the front of the shaft. My runout at the end of the output shaft (where coupler mounts) is about .001". Without the pilot bearing it was .005". I posted some short videos here of my bench testing. http://dan.pfeiffer.net/10m/electric_motor_video.htm Some details: Boat - Pearson 10M Disp - 13,000 Hull Speed - 7.1 Electric Drive Setup - ME1616 (12kW), Sevcon 4, LiFePo4 48V 280AH 3:1 reduction, 18" feathering prop w/variable pitch The thrust bearing is a 5207 double roller angular contact ball bearing that is the same type but several sizes larger than the thrust bearing in my old Walter V-Drive that was in service with my 23hp Volvo for 43 years. I fabricated an aluminum housing for it. After considering the size and weight of the output pulley I decided to add the front cover with with the pilot bearing made from a basic flange mounted bearing (UCF205-16) that is self aligning. I need to remove the front cover to change the belt which is not ideal. But I thought the better support for the output shaft was a worthwhile tradeoff. I hope to be on the water in a couple weeks. I still have to install the electrical components, assemble the main battery, install the cooling system and launch the boat. Dan Pfeiffer

For those running 48V 8-20kW systems, what are you doing for fuse protection on your battery bank? Brands and sizes? My 12kW motor has a constant capacity of 250 amps. The peak capacity is 600. I don't know what I might actually see for short duration peaks but I was thinking a 300 amp fuse might blow in normal operating if I had a momentary peak on the motor draw. What are others using? Dan Pfeiffer

Hello, I am evaluating an EV kit and I see this shaft on a drive motor... notice the female toothed grooves in the shaft... and I’ve not seen this before nor can I figure out what it is called. Does anyone know the right way to describe this kind of fitting and what the corresponding male part looks like (say, for mounting a pulley)? Thanks, -Ryan

Yes, power is power. The thought was that it's relatively cheap to buy a portable generator and carry a can of gas as backup. Looking at this a different way... If I go with traditional 48V motors (maybe even 10Kw so that I have plenty of room to grow) - can I power those (at low power) from a DC power supply running off a portable generator? Is it possible to buy a 2000W or even 3000W 48V DC power supply that runs off 110VAC? This would (in theory?) allow me to run off a very small battery bank, or no battery bank at all initially. Then there's the electrical question: If I connect a 3000W power supply to a small lithium battery (which would be very unlikely to have exactly the same voltage - higher when charged, lower when discharged - will I blow up anything? I'm assuming a 3000W power supply would be significantly more cost effective than trying to find a 3000W charger (which would be massive overkill, and likely damage a small battery bank). John

Retreat Time is a 2006 refit from diesel to electric however it is under powered having 2.2 kw PM brushless motors at 144v. Direct drive. They were re insulated, and upgraded to American motion control, controllers new in 2019, they operate perfectly and are for sale if anyone is interested. She is 44 ft LOA Sail craft Apache catamaran about 40 ft at the water line, 19.5 beam, Displacement is 13000 lbs theoretically, I'm guessing the weight trade off for the 50 hp diesels for the 24 - 115 Amp hour AGM batteries is a wash. She drafts 3.5 and 2.8 without the part of the keel that goes below the propellers so it can sit on a sand bar. What I mean is from the rudders forward its like railroad rails make up the bottom of the keels that allow the you to sit flat on the bottom when the tide goes out. Propellers, what I know is they are 15 in diameter three blade fixed, pitch is unknown. Will the group help me determine if the Thunderstruck 18Kw kits with all the liquid cooling, controller and motors, with gear reduction @72v be suitable to maintain 5 knots or so depending on conditions? Plan- Divide the 144v banks in each hull to duel 72v having one in use and a stand by ready to go, or charging from the Fischer Panda 9 kw 220v generator or re gen.

I have a 28 foot, 5 ton, Tyler Twister (long keel) with a Torqeedo 2.0 mounted on a home made bracket on the (transom hung) rudder. Due to the steeply angled transom, there is no ideal way to mount an outboard, so I am contemplating going back to an inboard engine. What do you guys think of using the Torqeedo 2.0 as an inboard engine? Perhaps a belt drive to the propeller shaft? I'm sure this would void any warranty, but would it work? Would cooling be an issue? Any comments appreciated.

Power Film Solar makes solar power kits for golf carts. The panels and controllers are available for 36, 48 and 72 volt configurations. Since I have a launch with a surrey top, I’ve been interested, but the price was a tad high (about $1000). I was contacted yesterday that they’ve come out with a new product line that charges at a higher amperage and has more voltage from the panel. The kicker is, they are selling old inventory for a huge discount. The generic panel (48” x 36”) was about $890. It is now $199. The controller is $99. Too good to pass up, especially since yesterday the pane was discounted to $299. Look up PowerFilm Solar. (No, I don’t work for them or get a kickback). Just passing info on a good deal.

Hello all, I'm in the planning phase for my next EV project: an electric hovercraft! I will be retiring my electric powerboat to sell the hull and trailer while keeping all of my electric drive components. So I have all of the batteries, switches, fuses, chargers, etc for a 48V 200A marine system. I don't have a motor I can reuse, as my boat used an e-Propulsion Navy 6 electric outboard. So, the main fixed component I'll be using is my Valence U27-12XP batteries (12V 130AH LiFePO4). I have ten of these, but for weight I'll only be using 4 on the hovercraft (136lbs). If I can get by with 36V or 24V, that's a savings of 34 lbs per battery. The hovercraft I'm building is a UH-10F from Universal Hovercraft. Hundreds of these have been built over the decades, many by high schoolers. It is a very simple and proven design, with only the electric motor and battery additions being new. Plenty of youtube videos if you want to see a UH-10F in action. I don't intend to race it, but the racing class requirements say no more than a 12.5hp / 9.3kW engine. So using that as a guideline, the 10kW sailboat kit from Thunderstruck looks pretty good! The thrust fan should spin at about 2400 rpm, which coincidentally is the max speed of the ME1115 in the kit. Instead of a smaller water propeller I'll be turning a 36" 6 blade ducted fan. Questions: 1. Given how well all those numbers line up, do I just direct drive the fan? Or is there a benefit to stepping up or down the RPM? 2. If I go down to 24V to save the 68 lbs, would I then use a belt drive to step up the RPM back to 2400 rpm? Or should I choose a different motor in that case? 3. The basic design diverts 30% of the thrust air under the skirt for lift. The enhanced design (UH-10F2) uses a separate lift and drive fan. There's some advantages to that but plenty of commercial designs only use one fan. However, if I could use two motors at 24V instead of one big motor at 48V it might make sense. Any thoughts on which way to go there? Thanks, Brian

You're right about that, Jamie. But we can't have 50.000V on our boats, max 48 or 96 V... I tried to look up the manufacturer, but without success. Assume it's just another Shenzhen backyard company. Please enlighten me, if some of you have ANY experience with this kind of motors ! I am going to Guangdong Province this weekend (the center of manufacturing in China), so if any really reasonable ideas, I would be able to go for inspection of a supplier. Was that a bomb to you ???!! P? fre., den 7. maj 2021 klokken 1:03, jamie.schlinkmann@... <jamie.schlinkmann@...> skrev: I'm sure some people will cringe....but these large outrunner drone motors are very efficient. There are several manufacturers of motors like this: https://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushless-motors/240mm/aps-24050-outrunner-bldc-motor-50kv-40kw-paramotor/ APS 24050 Outrunner BLDC motor 50KV 40KW Paramotor APS 24050 Outrunner BLDC motor 50KV 40KW Paramotor alienpowersystem.com This motor will get into the desired RPM range at 48V and below 10kW it will be very efficient. Of course it will also be able to produce more power when needed. Also there is a series of open-source drives available on the market that are very well designed... https://vesc-project.com/ VESC Project Welcome to the Home of E-Motion! What ever is on your mind, the Vesc-Environment will help you to achieve your goals faster. E-Motion is the key to success for the most innovative products of the near future. vesc-project.com I know many will say they are not hardened for the marine environment but they certainly can be. If I were doing this kind of conversion on a saildrive I would look hard at components like this. Jamie

I have a 42’ twin daggerboard sailing cat that displaces 16,500 lbs loaded. Two Volvo md 2030 diesels with approx 4000 hrs. Have been keeping both of these dirty beasts alive with requirement of lots of time, petroleum products, spare parts, and, skinned knuckles. Have been preparing for the day when one or both would go down and require major maintenance requiring either replacing or major rebuild. The day arrived yesterday. Looks like compression down in three cylinders. Probably need to pull engine. Head gasket, valves, piston rings? Who knows? Maybe all of the above…I am very tired of sweaty engine room yoga, loosing gallons of water in sweat at a time, and surely years off of my life. My family have been liveaboards since 2014 and came back from 1.5 yrs in South Pacific recently. Planning to take boat soon into Micronesia and Asia, but need a good solution first. The boat sails well and so we mostly sail, would like to have regen, and need short bursts of full power getting in and out of tricky atoll passes at times. Really wanting to repower with electric, but don’t have a specific system in my mind yet. Not sure I have the know-how to pull it off elegantly and well either, but willing to try. Looking for suggestions on a mostly plug and play (with installation modifications of course) system or if anyone has done a similar repower and have list of system components I could peruse as I gather info. Looked at the 48 v liquid cooled Motenergy thunder alley kit. Anyone have any experience with these? Cost is a factor, can’t afford the Oceanvolt ServoProp systems. Was thinking of leaving the sail drive with the three blade folding prop in place and building a system that incorporates the vertical shaft that goes into the sail drive leg. Don’t know the rpm’s it would have to spin yet, but has anyone done this? Likely looking at a ~ 10 kw 48 v batt system, like the looks of the battle born product but too pricey. Not sure I have the skills to assemble my own with a decent bms. Need reliability and safety. Will be in lots of isolated places and not interested in incinerating the boat and family. All thoughts appreciated as I start my search/process. Thank you for any time, input, and your collective wisdom as my family struggles through this next project. Flip -- Flip 42' Catamaran

Hangzhou Reacher Technology is a company that makes motors like this. They might be worth a visit.

Hmmm, I don't understand the voltage concern. The motor I linked with no load will turn 2400rpm theoretically. Under load 1600-2000 should be a good range. Jamie

First Draft of Schematic. Using Lishen 202Ah. I decided to go with the BMS only actively controlling the charge side of the circuit and opted for passive monitoring on the load side. Using a victron 712 for monitoring and hopefully can connect it to a relay to shut off charge circuit at predetermined voltage. Guys please tell me what I have missed. Couple of points. 1) Passive Load monitoring. I have decided to go this route as i understand that the load BMS can turn off for 2 reasons, obviously first is if whole bank drops to a lower than 20%SOC and secondly if single cells fail. From my perspective if I have a single cell failure I would rather still be able to use the other 15 cells than have no power. If I let my bank drop to below SOC of 20% that's on me. 2) Want to keep house bank separate for now, mainly as if I have to shut off my 48v bank for low SOC I don't want to have to worry about all my electronics being offline. 3) I want a separate relay to shut off charge current so that I can set this manually. When I come back from a sail i want to be able to top bank up to about a 70% SOC for storage. Then on the day I want to sail I can top it off o 90%