Carvel is right. You can get great things made in China, if you want to pay the premium for quality. Remember, your iPhone is made in China. The computer you are using is made in China, etc. You get what you pay for, at the higher end, and you get garbage at
the low end. The Chinese are instinctively geared towards reducing cost to the minimum without any regard to quality, unless you bring your standards to the plant and keep them in line.?
I worked for a company that used to import things from China. As soon as you relaxed your vigilance, garbage would come out of the assembly line because they would try to save a penny here and there by substituting the cheapest raw materials and supplies they
could get that day.?
But if you are on top of your supplier, you can really get good stuff delivered. This is also true for India and other "manufacturing" nations out there.?
As consumers, we have more of a Russian Roulette experience as we only want onsies or twosies, but if you buy from the larger importers like Shars, Little Machine Shop, Matthews Precision, your chances of getting good product go up and you always have a recourse
for a return and replacement if you strike out.?
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For interest the best / truest / tightest 3 jaw chuck I own was made in China , and outperforms my “reference” hardly used Pratt B , and cost me less than replacement jaws for the other Pratt B . . . .
Q/A is an issue though , but usually the suppliers will replace defective product ,
?
Regards,
?
Carvel
?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of David Beierl
Sent: 06 January 2019 11:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center
?
The Chinesium ones last a couple months, maybe.??
But that's because they're crap, not because they're Chinese.? If we want good tools and are willing to pay for them the Chinese will sell them to us.? If we want cheap tools, the Chinese will sell them to us.? ?If we don't care they'll
sell us cheap ones -- they seem spring-loaded in that direction.
?
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For interest the best / truest / tightest 3 jaw chuck I own was made in China , and outperforms my “reference” hardly used Pratt B , and cost me less than replacement jaws for the other Pratt B . . . .
Q/A is an issue though , but usually the suppliers will replace defective product , ? Regards, ? Carvel ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Beierl
Sent: 06 January 2019 11:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center ? The Chinesium ones last a couple months, maybe.??
But that's because they're crap, not because they're Chinese.? If we want good tools and are willing to pay for them the Chinese will sell them to us.? If we want cheap tools, the Chinese will sell them to us.? ?If we don't care they'll sell us cheap ones -- they seem spring-loaded in that direction. ?
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Thanks for input guys..I figured that repair would not be worth the expense but needed to get backing! I'll buy a couple next sale I find..Seb..
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On 01/07/2019 07:46 AM, Dan and Marlene
Coleman wrote:
Mark at R. M. Tool Repair can fix your
calipers. ?He has parts for older stuff also.? He also repairs
indicators.? ?269 Lancaster Dr., Crystal Lake, IL 60014.?
815-893-3302? mrtool2010@....
?
These are not rocket science.? But, they can be just a little tricky
to get the dial off.
But, in many cases, you don't need to mess with that.? generally,
take the end stop off the
end of the beam, and you can run the slide all the way off.? Then,
use a toothbrush to clean
the rack.? It may take a jeweler's loupe and a fine wire or X-acto
blade to get all the chips out of the rack.? Then, when you put it
back on, you may want to use a jeweler's screwdriver to lift the
pinion so the gear skips one tooth just as it engages the rack, so
that the pointer ends up where you want it.
Some larger calipers have two pinions and an anti-backlash spring
mechanism behind the dial, and need the pinions preloaded the right
way to avoid binding.? This gets a bit more fiddly to get it all
started in the right way.? Generally true for any with .1" per turn
of the dial.
Jon
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Mark at R. M. Tool Repair can fix your calipers. ?He has parts for older stuff also.? He also repairs indicators.? ?269 Lancaster Dr., Crystal Lake, IL 60014.? 815-893-3302? mrtool2010@.... ? Dan Coleman ?
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Re: Atlas Motors (was Finally workbench for my lathe
Carvel, ? I’ve fallen behind (again).? :-) ? Your Atlas Motors ad is from Atlas Catalog No. 45, which is dated May, 1945 (so not quite Post-War).? One thing to keep in mind is that Atlas, like Sears, ?had motors made with their name on them (all the way up through at least 1978) but they didn’t make motors.? And just because a motor was listed in a catalog didn’t necessarily mean that it was intended for use on any machines that were also listed in that catalog.? At least one catalog listed up to 1 HP 440V 3-phase motors with ?” diameter shafts.? That did not mean that they expected ?someone to buy that motor to run a 618 6” lathe that was also listed in that catalog.? The page that each machine was listed on usually gave the motor recommendation.? Recommended motor HP was as follows (all at 1725 to 1800 RPM) ? 6”??? 1/4 to 1/3 HP 9”??? 1/4 to 1/3 HP 10”? 1/3 to 1/2 HP 12”? 1/3 to 1/2 HP (3/8” bed) 12”? 1/2 to 3/4 HP (1/2” bed) ? The dangers of operating a machine with an over-size motor is that the operator can get into the habit of overloading the machine, causing premature wear and failure. ?And if you ever do have a crash, it will damage more than it would have with the proper motor on the machine. ? On the subject of using a VFD to run a motor larger than it is rated for, it may work and it may not.? VFD’s generally have both current and voltage limiters.? Assuming that these are properly set to protect the VFD, starting an over-sized motor may take several seconds, even if started with no load on the motor.? Once started, the no-load current may be within the limits of the VFD, but it may after a while damage the motor because of the slow start during which the motor is drawing the maximum current that the VFD can supply.? It isn’t actually intended to be operated that way.? The rule of thumb for AC and for shunt or compound wound DC motors is that the surge or starting current is typically about 3X the rated Full Load Amperes (FLA) on the nameplate.? In a normal circuit where the system is capable of momentarily supplying this, the motor will come up to speed in one-half a second or less.? If the system isn’t so capable, it could take several seconds for the motor to wind up.? The under-sized VFD may be happy with this, but the motor won’t be. ?Eventually, you are going to let the magic smoke out of the motor. ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of cwlathes
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2019 08:46
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Finally workbench for my lathe? Hi Bill, ? That is very curious .
My post war Atlas catalogue lists only 1/3 and ? HP motors ( single and 3 phase ) for the 10” lathe ( see below )
I wonder how that came about – maybe one of our more knowledgeable historians can assist :>)
With regard to the VFD , my understanding is that a smaller VFD can drive a larger motor provided the current limit of the VFD is not exceeded, and a larger VFD can drive a smaller motor provided the current limit of the motor is not exceeded – but I speak under correction , ? Keep well, ? Carvel ?
? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 January 2019 10:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Finally workbench for my lathe ? Don't know about that. The serial number card says it was shipped with a 3/4hp 1ph 1725 rpm motor. And a 3/4hp VFD might not be able to turn a motor rated for 2hp at all. And the motor is physically large enough it could be a 3HP motor. I don't know a lot about 3phase motors, but I work with them, so have been reading up on them. My equipment that I work on has quite a variety of motors, many 3 phase, and rated from 1/4HP to 60HP. I've still got a lot of parts to derust, paint, and put back together, so I'm not in a great hurry at the moment. Get down to the last couple of parts, it will get more urgent, though, I do suspect! ;) On Sunday, January 6, 2019, 1:48:59 AM CST, cwlathes <carvelw@...> wrote: Morning Bill,
The VFD doesn’t HAVE to be matched to the motor power wise , as long as it can deliver enough power for your needs . . . .
In other words , if you happened to come across a VFD capable of driving a ? HP motor , and your mystery motor was rated at 1HP , all it would mean is that you would be limited to drawing ? of its capacity which would probably be more than adequate given that the original motors for this lathe were 1/3 or ? HP ? Regards, ? Carvel ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 January 2019 06:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Finally workbench for my lathe ? I'm thinking a 3/4hp 3ph motor and VFD for mine, as my 10L originally shipped with a 1725rpm 3/4hp 1ph motor. Everything I've read or heard about the Teco VFD's seem to indicate they're the smart move. Haven't had much luck finding anything for less than about $3-400 for the combination, plus shipping.? The lathe came with a 3ph motor without a data plate. Old but not quite as rusty as the rest of the lathe. I have a contact tachometer so could find out what speed it is, but I'd have to take it to work to get power to test it. Did borrow their megger, no leakage or shorts at 1kv. If I knew what hp it's rated for I could just buy the VFD. I have 220vac power in the shop at one location, could extend it. Or move the lathe to it.? I gave up on my HF tool chest as a stand for my Atlas TH42. It is just a bit too long, and also too wide for the "42 inch" tool box. That is 42 inches including the handle. 40 inches long x 18 inches deep, about a 3/4"lip on back and sides. I got it just before they came out with the 22" deep tool chests, of course. So it's going to be a tool chest. With tools in it. Imagine that! :) The table is one I've mentioned here before. It's 3' x 8', 1/8" steel top, now with 1" of Baltic birch plywood on top of the steel. I need to get the drip pan I told you about from under the Atlas MF Mill and put it under the Atlas lathe. I have a new 2' x 3' drip pan for the mill, and another for the Lewis shaper. I've been planning on putting that on the table with the lathe and mill, but I'm wondering if that is such a good idea. I've only run the shaper once, and promptly took it back off the heavy steel file cabinet I'd mounted it on. Lots of momentum there as the ram moves back and forth. Probably do bad things to the fine finish on a part turned while it was running. :) ? ? On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:39 PM, Jody So the motor is a Baldor 3 phase 1/2 hp. I picked it up new on ebay for real cheap. It was a steal of a deal and made it much easier to justify the conversion. The original motor was likely going to require a re-wire and rebuild. I have a Teco 1/2 hp size VFD.? I've been real happy with it and the technical support was very helpful with a direct line to technicians.? I called them a few times with wiring and programing questions...and they were very helpful.??
-------- Original message --------
From: mike allen <animal@...>
Date: 1/4/19 10:14 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Finally workbench for my lathe
any more info on yer motor & controller ?
??? ??? animal
On 1/4/2019 1:14 PM, Jody wrote:
Bill,
Funny and stupid story, I set mine up with a VFD with fwd/rev,
potentiometer, jog, and E stop.
I tested the E stop and was nevous that the thing would spin off.? I
actually need to make the stop not quite as harsh.? But it didn't
fling off the spindle thankfully.
-Jody
|
Seb:
In a 12/2016 video, YouTube creator Adam Booth talked about the guy who does his repairs :
"I also have some repaired tools that has come in from M.R. Tool Repair. Mark is an excellent craftsman when it comes to precision instrument repairs. Give him a try, you will be pleased!"
Mark Ratkowski
M. R. TOOL REPAIR
269 Lancaster Drive
Crystal Lake, IL 60014
mrtool2010@...
HTH, Bill
On Sunday, January 6, 2019, 6:33:54 PM PST, seb fontana via Groups.Io <speedoo51@...> wrote:
I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use, just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe, Now motor selection
Here is the Consew control schematic.? A larger capacitor will make the motor accelerate and brake slower.
The top trim potentiometer sets the adjustment pot's high speed value.
The bottom one the low speed.
Start with the high end pot at mid value, the speed pot at slowest setting and the low end pot at minimum.
Gradually increase the low end pot until there is a slight speed increase.
Set speed pot to max speed.?
Adjust the top speed pot until there is no speed change (about 4500 RPM).
Repeat these steps a couple of time since there is interaction between the settings.
The goal is to get the full range on the speed pot so at minimum the speed is a few hundred RPM and at max setting the 4500 RPM.
Note, the max speed can be limited? in the controller menu.
Warning Live AC 120V.? Be safe.
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One of the reasons their Zero fighters weren't more of a terror than they already were is that they were expending pilots before they could get good.
I was a photographer at Nellis AFB, where they do the Red Flag exercises, in the late 70's and early 80's. Enlisted during Vietnam. The USAF noticed that most of our pilots who made it through their first 10 combat missions made it home alive. So they started that school to, as much as possible, give our guys those first 10 missions as a freebie. The maxim is "The more you train, the less you bleed."
Had a pilot come in with a strip of gun camera film wanting 1 8x10 B&W print from a frame in the film. It was against regs to do it, but we did anyway. He had an F-15 centered in the gunsight reticle for six seconds. In combat, that is forever. Guy was an Illinois Air National Guard Major, with three or four combat tours in Nam, and over 4000 hours in the F-100 against a 1st Lieutenant in the F-15.
In combat that Lt. would have been a column of smoke.
The Japanese pilots mostly didn't get much chance get much experience. Divine Wind. Short-term it might be a winning strategy, but long-term it was a disaster for them. Like Patton said over on the other front, our job is to make the other poor bastard die for his country.
Bill in OKC
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On Sun, 1/6/19, mike allen <animal@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, January 6, 2019, 6:12 PM ??? ??? the actions & chrome barrels on alot of the Arisaka rifles were good design , they could have spent a bit more time on their saftey's ??? ??? animal On 1/6/2019 11:17 AM, Bill in OKC too via Groups.Io wrote: One of my instructors in photography collected Nikon cameras. He had one made just post-war with the leaves of the shutter iris made from GI beer cans. You could see where the black paint didn't quite cover the Budweiser logo on the original beer can. Excellent use of found materials to do something pretty good. I have a WWII NCO-issue Samurai sword. It is NOT a good example of quality or craftsmanship, but it's still pretty strong. Mine was, according to the at least third-hand story, captured from the arsenal in Tokyo after the war, in unfinished condition. The blade wasn't sharpened yet. Still isn't, in fact. I've had for something close to 37 years. When I have the time, and the right stones, I'll probably sharpen it. But I wouldn't hesitate to use it today as is.? And the strongest rifle action I know of is the Arisaka, and even ones made late in the war were pretty tough. P.O. Ackley though well of them. Japanese electronics were not quite so good, at first. But their Zero fighters were better than just about anything we had until very late in the war. One of the reasons I wanted a lathe in the first place was to make my own cameras. Still not quite there yet, and beer cans are no longer made of steel. Bill in OKC _
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What brand are the damaged calipers?
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Pete McLaughlin via Groups.Io" <pete_mclaughlin_93555@...> Date: 1/6/19 9:59 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] 6" Dial Calipers
A harbor freight 6 inch dial caliper is $23. You won’t find anyone who will repair a dial caliper for that small a fee.
Trash the old ones and buy new. You will be happier in the long run.
Pete Mclaughlin On Jan 6, 2019, at 6:50 PM, mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? `google yer area for equipment calibration , or another
term "Metrology? lab "
??? ??? animal
On 1/6/2019 6:33 PM, seb fontana via
Groups.Io wrote:
I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need
repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable
for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the
gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial
operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could
send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use,
just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just
replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
|
For the places in the rack where the dial doesn't operate correctly, take a fine bristle wire brush (either fine steel or brass bristles) and use that to remove the entrapped foreign material from the rack at those points.? Don't scrub the brush ALONG the rack, but rather move the brush perpendicular to the rack to dislodge the trapped foreign material from the rack teeth.? Use a magnifier and inspect the rack at the locations where problems are encountered.? Most likely, you will see some foreign material associated with those problem spots.? Use the brush to remove it, then re-inspect and check for proper caliper operation over those spots.
If the foreign material has become trapped in the gear (or pinion), disassembly of the caliper is required to clean the gear.? And if the rack or pinion has been damaged due to foreign material (deformed teeth), replacement of the calipers is most likely in order.
Repair of the calipers by the manufacturer may be more costly than purchasing new calipers.? Labor costs in the US have often made tool repair for a variety of tools uneconomical.? If the cost to repair the item is 50% (or more) of the cost to purchase the item new, what choice would you make?
Lynn C.
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Amen, Brother! Tell it!
We buy cheap tools at work. For the operators that have to make adjustmens to the machinery. (Not very many of them.) HF wrenches work fine, if maybe not as precisely cut as old Craftsman wrenches. They're quite strong, too. And a lot less expensive to replace when lost.
For the guys like me that turn wrenches all day, we mostly have older Craftsman, or Kobalt.
For myself, hand tools are mostly Craftsman and mostly old. Power tools are mostly Ryobi for cordless, or Black & Decker mid-grade stuff, or Skil likewise, for corded, with a bunch of HF angle grinders. Two of them are over 20 years old, and each set up differently. I utterly destroyed a Metabo some years ago, in one day. Those two older HF grinders get a lot more use than that Metabo did. On is starting to worry me, though. One each Dewalt chop saw & Recip saw bought very used. Lots of compromises when my teaching career went down the tubes, but doing better now. Slowly replacing my cheap measuring tools with good name stuff.
Sometimes you have to buy cheap. My 3/4-drive socket set, for example. Not in constant use, but utterly necessary once in a great while. If I had tractor or diesel truck I'd probably need it to be better quality. Mostly I use it in my arbor press or with a hammer for taking stuff apart or putting it back together.
Bill in OKC
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On Sun, 1/6/19, Dave Matticks <dpm100@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] Royal live center To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, January 6, 2019, 4:14 PM Seems like the cheap ones prevail. I prefer things that work today, tomorrow and the same in 40 years.DaveOn January 6, 2019 at 3:58 PM David Beierl <dbeierl@...> wrote: The Chinesium ones last a couple months, maybe.?? But that's because they're crap, not because they're Chinese.? If we want good tools and are willing to pay for them the Chinese will sell them to us.? If we want cheap tools, the Chinese will sell them to us.? ?If we don't care they'll sell us cheap ones -- they seem spring-loaded in that direction. Yrs,d
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A harbor freight 6 inch dial caliper is $23. You won’t find anyone who will repair a dial caliper for that small a fee.
Trash the old ones and buy new. You will be happier in the long run.
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On Jan 6, 2019, at 6:50 PM, mike allen < animal@...> wrote:
??? ??? `google yer area for equipment calibration , or another
term "Metrology? lab "
??? ??? animal
On 1/6/2019 6:33 PM, seb fontana via
Groups.Io wrote:
I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need
repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable
for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the
gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial
operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could
send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use,
just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just
replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
|
then I'll make sure not to ask you next time
??? ??? animal
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On 1/6/2019 5:05 PM, Guenther Paul wrote: Animal
A FVD comes with a seed readout.
It would be interesting to know why you guys talk about VFD's on a
small lathe that can run on a straight 115V or 220V. To me it is a
waist of money a VFD
is not needed if you power supply would be 3 phase and you are trying
to run a single phase motor it would be a diverent story. Your band
saw are you using a 12V motor I am asking because I don't know what
voltage a treadmill runs on
GP
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??? ??? `google yer area for equipment calibration , or another
term "Metrology? lab "
??? ??? animal
On 1/6/2019 6:33 PM, seb fontana via
Groups.Io wrote:
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Show quoted text
I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need
repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable
for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the
gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial
operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could
send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use,
just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just
replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
_._,_._,_
|
??? ??? well it sure isn't tomato juice
??? ??? ??? animal
On 1/6/2019 6:11 PM, Steven H via
Groups.Io wrote:
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If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, it (most likely)
is a turd!
Steve Haskell
Troy, MI
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I would send them to the manufacturer if they are still around they have repair departments. If they are Lufkin's you may be out of luck or buy a used one on e-bay.
GP
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On Sun, 1/6/19, seb fontana via Groups.Io <speedoo51@...> wrote: Subject: [atlas-craftsman IO] 6" Dial Calipers To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, January 6, 2019, 9:33 PM I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use, just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
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Re: Finally workbench for my lathe
If these 3/4 HP Consew DC sewing machine motors are the $135 motors being sold on eBay, I burned up two of these motors I had installed to power my 10” Atlas lathe about three years ago. I don’t recall if it was the motor controls or the motor itself that fried. Twice.
So I can’t recommend the sewing machine motor setup.
I have since installed a 110 volt input/3 phase output VFD and a new VFD rated 1HP Marathon three phase motor and that setup is great. Variable speed and rarely ever have to change belt positions. The Marathon motor is capable of operating down to 4 HZ. I also have a digital tachometer installed so I can read lathe spindle rpm.
I have the same VFD/motor/tach setup on my Atlas 12 x 36 underdrive lathe.
Have fun making chips.
Steve Haskell
Troy, MI
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I have several 6" Dial Calipers [ok, four.] that need repair..Three I dropped and they landed making the dial inoperable for one reason or another, one got some foreign material in the gear rack and in my trying to fish it out did not make the dial operate any better in the two spots..So is there any place I could send them for repair? They are all name brand with little use, just my clumsiness..Or is it not worth the bother/cost and just replace with new? I am in CT..Thanks, Seb..
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Change of pace from upgrading your lathe
Here is a change of pace form upgrading a lathe. A project you can build on a small lathe.
Enjoy
Pete Mclaughlin
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Bill Buckalew
Bill in OKC too
Steven H