Re: YD7432 Reverser - recommended length of the Sensor track
@karst.drenth:
Your timely reply is very much appreciated. I will follow your advice and will be ordering YD7432 Reversers as well as an ESU L.Net converter.
Also, I am looking into connecting mon-monitored sections through two diodes in each direction as you suggested. So far I have not observed any voltage drop on sections monitored by ESU 50094 Detectors. But that might be because I was measuring on open circuit.?
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@Iain Morrison:
Thanks for trying to help. The reason I was asking about occupancy detection reporting via S88, is because this functionality is in the specs on yamorc.de page for YD7432 Reverser. According to the page the reverser's reporting capability via enhanced S88 is the same as via LocoNet. The problem, it appears, is in the ECoS which ?does not have galvanic isolation between the track ground and its s88 interface.
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Re: YD7432 Reverser - recommended length of the Sensor track
On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 06:01 PM, TrainZeal wrote:
Could you please elaborate why it matters to have "sections adjacent to S1 and S2 to also be supplied with a current sensor" ?
They don't have to be detected, but have at least the same voltage drop (1.1V) as the sensor tracks are measuring for. You also can (or better should if you have more Current-Sense detection ) power your turnouts through some anti-parallel diodes ( two in each direction ) By the way, doing so also imporves feedback reliability of other Current-Sensed section adjacent to turnouts.
In a reversing loop, sections S1 and S2 are usually next to the turnout, which is not necessarily supplied from a detector (as it is not part of "monitored track", at least in TrainController).
I am currently using Litffinski reverse loop modules in combination with ESU 50094 detectors. In this case: S1/S2 sensor tracks are short (5-20 cm) and not monitored, only the loop between them.
The YD7432 monitors all of it's sections, to be able to provide a complete, 2-way, block for control software.? S1 and S2 serve as "incoming" feedbacks, T.O. as occupation.
I am considering your YD7432 Reverser modules for my additional loops.
Do you think they will work with ESU ECoS when connected via S88 for occupancy monitoring?
Well that is a story by itsself... I designed the YD7432 to indeed have an s88 Bus... and I did that after consulting ESU whether their s88 Bus is galvanically isolated from the Track-Power. The Answer: Yes it is ! But then reality struck... As we finished the YD7432 it indeed worked very nicely on the ECoS ... until... you turn on track power... Then the feedbacks went bozo. ==> Not a 100% galvanic Isolation between track ground and s88 :'( So unfortunately it does not work through the? ECoS' s88 bus. It works brilliant however with the ESU L.Net converter. Greets, Karst
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Re: YD7432 Reverser - recommended length of the Sensor track
You ask whether the YD7432 will work when “connected via S88 for occupancy monitoring” – the YD7432 uses LocoNet to provide the occupancy reporting, not S88 ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of TrainZeal via groups.io
Sent: 08 January 2025 01:59
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: YD7432 Reverser - recommended length of the Sensor track? Could you please elaborate why it matters to have "sections adjacent to S1 and S2 to also be supplied with a current sensor" ? In a reversing loop, sections S1 and S2 are usually next to the turnout, which is not necessarily supplied from a detector (as it is not part of "monitored track", at least in TrainController). I am currently using Litffinski reverse loop modules in combination with ESU 50094 detectors. In this case: S1/S2 sensor tracks are short (5-20 cm) and not monitored, only the loop between them. I am considering your YD7432 Reverser modules for my additional loops. Do you think they will work with ESU ECoS when connected via S88 for occupancy monitoring?
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Re: YD7432 Reverser - recommended length of the Sensor track
@karst.drenth
Could you please elaborate why it matters to have "sections adjacent to S1 and S2 to also be supplied with a current sensor" ?
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In a reversing loop, sections S1 and S2 are usually next to the turnout, which is not necessarily supplied from a detector (as it is not part of "monitored track", at least in TrainController).
I am currently using Litffinski reverse loop modules in combination with ESU 50094 detectors. In this case: S1/S2 sensor tracks are short (5-20 cm) and not monitored, only the loop between them.
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I am considering your YD7432 Reverser modules for my additional loops.
Do you think they will work with ESU ECoS when connected via S88 for occupancy monitoring?
?
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Re: DR5000 & Cobalt Problems
yes the snubbers the cobalts are powered?by dr5000 the cobalt frogs are wired frog to the common and the track feed for the frogs are left and right on the cobalts I am not using the frog connection on the cobalts
On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 11:33?AM Iain Morrison via <w.iain.morrison= [email protected]> wrote: By resistor packs do you mean DCC Filters (snubbers)??
Are you using the frog output on the Cobalts? If you are then you will be powering the frogs from the accessories bus I.e. the YD9401. When using separate boosters for the track then you need to use the separate SPDT switch that is on the Cobalts and take the feeds from the track power feeding the turnouts.
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 at 11:18, Alan Watt via <overdenestation= [email protected]> wrote: ok bought some of them resistor packs?
I have two boosters for the track power only and the point motors all run from the dr5000/9401
put the resistor pack on the dr5000 and when I change? a point(cobalt) most of my tracks shows occupancy while the point moves
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any one explain this please
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Re: DR5000 & Cobalt Problems
By resistor packs do you mean DCC Filters (snubbers)??
Are you using the frog output on the Cobalts? If you are then you will be powering the frogs from the accessories bus I.e. the YD9401. When using separate boosters for the track then you need to use the separate SPDT switch that is on the Cobalts and take the feeds from the track power feeding the turnouts.
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 at 11:18, Alan Watt via <overdenestation= [email protected]> wrote: ok bought some of them resistor packs?
I have two boosters for the track power only and the point motors all run from the dr5000/9401
put the resistor pack on the dr5000 and when I change? a point(cobalt) most of my tracks shows occupancy while the point moves
?
any one explain this please
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Re: DR5000 & Cobalt Problems
ok bought some of them resistor packs?
I have two boosters for the track power only and the point motors all run from the dr5000/9401
put the resistor pack on the dr5000 and when I change? a point(cobalt) most of my tracks shows occupancy while the point moves
?
any one explain this please
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Re: Detailed setup manual for the YD7010?
Hey Rick, I had a chance to test the 7010 station a bit last few days and I like it. Connection is flawless. Lots of futures and possibilities.
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Based on that page, you're not going to get RailCom on S88, you'd need S88.2. There is a lack of RailCom detectors that will work on other systems (ESU and Roco have ones that only work with their own system). You can use LoDi's interface to connect to Ethernet to connect to iTrain, but AFAICT, their system will not work with JMRI.
These functions are available when operating on the old s88 bus: - Occupancy report of the individual blocks with display
- Short circuit detection of the individual blocks, here via an additional register, which means:
If a short circuit is detected on output 1.1, for example, 1.9 is reported as occupied. The short circuit can now be displayed on every model railway control system.
-- Alexander Wood Hartford-New Haven, CT Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern in HO Digikeijs DR5000 - JMRI - ProtoThrottle - TCS UWT-100 - TCS UWT-50p - Digitrax Simplex
I would like to try and test some RailCom futures. At the moment the only available detection unit comes from LoDi. Can that unit be connected directly to the YaMoRC 7010 station on the S88 bus?
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I would like to try and test some RailCom futures. At the moment the only available detection unit comes from LoDi. Can that unit be connected directly to the YaMoRC 7010 station on the S88 bus?
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Re: Detailed setup manual for the YD7010?
Rick,
Why would you need to program using a throttle or Z21 app if you have DecoderPro? The key to understanding JMRI is that if you're using POM, JMRI is storing the changes in the roster file, so if you go and change something with a throttle, JMRI doesn't know you changed it, and you'd have to read the locomotive back in on the programming track. So better to just use JMRI and let it keep track of changes.
I'd suggest that you get a book about DCC and learn the basics of DCC, decoders, CVs, parts of the?system, how data flows through the system, etc.
Alex
-- Alexander Wood Hartford-New Haven, CT Modeling the modern era freelanced G&W Connecticut Northern in HO Digikeijs DR5000 - JMRI - ProtoThrottle - TCS UWT-100 - TCS UWT-50p - Digitrax Simplex
On Thu, Dec 19, 2024 at 7:25?PM Rick Norell via <ricknorell= [email protected]> wrote: Novice here.? So programming the decoder with DecoderPro totally completes the job?? I would not need to go through decoder programing in YD7010 or in the Z21 app?? If so, eliminates redundant entry and eases decoder programming for the more complex ESU sound decoders.? Thank you!
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I bought a few of these YD8116 modules mainly for turnouts. For slow motion switch machines it only takes a press of the 'Pgm' button and 1 turnout command to set all addresses for all 8 turnouts as Iain says. Since I use Tortoise switch machines I also needed to buy 4 YD6940 adapters. That works well.
However...
If it's signals you want to configure then the manual recommends either:
- the YD9101 which is a USB to ES-Link config board
or
- a module with an ES-IN connector on it. That module would also need a YD9601ES-Link adapter to connect the modules together side by side.
In fact it's the YD9100 on the website that is for sale. I bought one just to see what the config looked like after pressing the Pgm button. There are tons of config options for signals which I will be using some time in the future. The YD9100 comes with a YD6910ES-LINK adapter so it's probably the easier choice.
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So to summarize in case that was as clear as mud- you can configure the YD8116 for slow motion switch machines without anything special but if you want to configure signals then you need something with an ES-IN connector on it and a YD9601ES-Link adapter OR just buy a YD9100 which isn't expensive.
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The YD8116 does have 16 switchable outputs but each turnout uses 2 outputs (straight and branch) therefore only 8 turnouts can be controlled ?
This is probably a really dumb question.....
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I need some extra outputs for signals and so I need to buy some additional signal decoders. So I was reading the user manual for the YD8116. I was under the impression that the 8116 was a 16 output device. The manual says that to configure the turnout addresses you press the button and send it a signal from the central unit switching the first desired output address for the 8116, and the 8116 assigns that address and the next seven addresses consecutively. That's ok, but what about the other 8 addresses? Or, do I need to program the 8116 vie the ES-Link system so that all 16 can be set with an address? The example shown in the manual states that to use the ES-Link system we need to go via another module to use the ES-Link system. This would mean I would need to purchase a module I don't need on my railway just to carry out the programming!!
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All I want to do is use all 16 outputs of the module with seperate addresses for each output, with fade on and off.
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My central unit is a DR5000 / YD7001. My signals are currently driven with several DR4018.
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Thanks
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Pete S.
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This is probably a really dumb question.....
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I need some extra outputs for signals and so I need to buy some additional signal decoders. So I was reading the user manual for the YD8116. I was under the impression that the 8116 was a 16 output device. The manual says that to configure the turnout addresses you press the button and send it a signal from the central unit switching the first desired output address for the 8116, and the 8116 assigns that address and the next seven addresses consecutively. That's ok, but what about the other 8 addresses? Or, do I need to program the 8116 vie the ES-Link system so that all 16 can be set with an address? The example shown in the manual states that to use the ES-Link system we need to go via another module to use the ES-Link system. This would mean I would need to purchase a module I don't need on my railway just to carry out the programming!!
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All I want to do is use all 16 outputs of the module with seperate addresses for each output, with fade on and off.
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My central unit is a DR5000 / YD7001. My signals are currently driven with several DR4018.
?
Thanks
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Pete S.
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Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?
On Thu, Jan 2, 2025 at 05:06 PM, Iain Morrison wrote:
Pre-made resistive wheelsets are not something I have seen in Europe, I use SMD resistors, superglue and silver conductive paint.
I do the same here, make my own resistor wheels. There are several company's that do make resistors wheels in the USA.
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You appear to be connecting to the global detector K to the buss bar, and from the DR5088RC outputs via shunt resistors to the buss bar but I cannot see where you are connecting the feedback's for the track into, unfortunately all I can see are a jumble of read and black wires coming from somewhere and going to somewhere – hence asking for a clearer logical diagram rather than a picture.
I did not show all the wiring because that does not change on wiring the DR5088RC, just adding the resistors is all I am doing.
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I also assume that when you say “Resistor Wheels 4 x 10K (2.5K)” this means four axles, each of 10k giving a resistance of 2k5 across the track?
Yes
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Dennis Cherry
Owner/Moderator
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Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?
Dennis ? Pre-made resistive wheelsets are not something I have seen in Europe, I use SMD resistors, superglue and silver conductive paint. ? You appear to be connecting to the global detector K to the buss bar, and from the DR5088RC outputs via shunt resistors to the buss bar but I cannot see where you are connecting the feedbacks for the track into, unfortunately all I can see are a jumble of read and black wires coming from somewhere and going to somewhere – hence asking for a clearer logical diagram rather than a picture. ? I also assume that when you say “Resistor Wheels 4 x 10K (2.5K)” this means four axles, each of 10k giving a resistance of 2k5 across the track? ? Iain ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dennis Cherry via groups.io
Sent: 02 January 2025 22:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?? There are many resistor wheels available, the 10K resistor wheels are popular from different MFG.s In my picture of the DR5088RC the green buss bar is the "K" connections to the DR5088RC. You will see some 1.8K, 2.2K and 2.7K shunt resistors, all worink just fine. Dennis Cherry
Owner/Moderator
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Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?
There are many resistor wheels available, the 10K resistor wheels are popular from different MFG.s
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In my picture of the DR5088RC the green buss bar is the "K" connections to the DR5088RC.
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You will see some 1.8K, 2.2K and 2.7K shunt resistors, all worink just fine.
--
Dennis Cherry
Owner/Moderator
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Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?
Dennis ? I use iTrain with DR5088RC and get solid Railcom detection without any of the shunting which you describe and I use 1k5, or 2k resistors as axle detection for wagons. I have shown a few people this method with DR5088RC and axle detection. This has worked for all of them. ? Could you do a diagram of you shunt picture as I cannot see what is being wired to where, but the boards you are using seem familiar. IIRC someone created them for the DR4088LN-CS shunts but I can’t recall the name ? ? Perhaps when I see what you have wired it may be obvious but presently I am not aware of a DR5088RC detection problem that needs solving? ? Iain ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dennis Cherry via groups.io
Sent: 02 January 2025 22:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?? Seven months ago I sent an email to Karst about some testing I did on my DR5088RC unit.? Was having the problem with reliable sensor contact. I do use Railcom on my railroad using JMRI. Karst replied back to me and liked my novel way to fix the DR5088RC detection. What I did was on all the DR5088RC "J" inputs was adding a resistor shunt to the 'K' connections. This has stopped my senors and Railcom Reporting? from dropping out, JMRI it did not like this and would stop displaying the Railcom ID's, I would have to close and reopen JMRI. The chart includes using 4 each 10K resistor wheels and also tested with 3 each 10K resistors wheels to simulate having dirty wheels. I would recommend the 2.2K or 2.7K 1/4W resistors for N & HO. It only takes .008888 ma? per resistor. Dennis Cherry
Owner/Moderator Attachments:
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Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?
Seven months ago I sent an email to Karst about some testing I did on my DR5088RC unit.? Was having the problem with reliable sensor contact.
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I do use Railcom on my railroad using JMRI.
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My Railroad is N-Scale.
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Karst replied back to me and liked my novel way to fix the DR5088RC detection.
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What I did was on all the DR5088RC "J" inputs was adding a resistor shunt to the 'K' connections.
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This has stopped my senors and Railcom Reporting? from dropping out, JMRI it did not like this and would stop displaying the Railcom ID's, I would have to close and reopen JMRI.
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The chart includes using 4 each 10K resistor wheels and also tested with 3 each 10K resistors wheels to simulate having dirty wheels.
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See Attachments:
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I would recommend the 2.2K or 2.7K 1/4W resistors for N & HO. It only takes .008888 ma? per resistor.
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--
Dennis Cherry
Owner/Moderator
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Re: Resistor for block detection, best size?
Heath ? For DR4088LN-CS a 10k resistor should work perfectly. ?Different systems often require different values and you cannot read across from different systems to get the value for your feedbacks. As an example a DR5088RC requires 1k5 ? Iain ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Human[c]ity Junction via groups.io
Sent: 02 January 2025 13:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: Resistor for block detection, best size?? I have both the DR4088CS and the YaMoRC equivalent. On the DR4088CS I have added the resistors as recommended.? What is the best size resistor to use for wheelsets on N scale? I thought everyone used 10k ohm resistors, but a friend was using 1.5k ohm on all their cars.? I want to put 2 resistors on every cars, at opposite ends, but I want a single axle to trigger detection. But I also want to be able to have a string of 16+ cars in one zone and not trip a breaker.? What is best practice for these specific units?
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karst.drenth
Alan Watt
Oldngrey
