Re: Strange Tek2440 issue
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 2:04 PM Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote: Acquisition stopped, doesn't happen. I can go all the way to 2ns/div.
Normal trigger but trigger set to +or- 90v (not triggering), it happens.
Single, doesn't happen, can go all the way to 2ns/div, can even trigger
it (in single) and it doesn't happen. The probe was hooked to the
calibrator for the triggers. Normally doesn't matter if there's a
signal there or not.
Interesting. I'd look at the power supplies, should be easy enough to see what's happening as this is reproducible. Do you have a second digital or storage scope to look at what's happening on the power rails? The only difference between single shot and run without trigger is that the single shot capture has a very limited duration. Maybe the problem is that a power rail is marginal, and so gets dragged down when the CCDs & capture clock keep running for a while. Once you start capturing the CCDs start storing (and discarding) the signal, waiting for a trigger.
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On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:14 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
The 151 file I downloaded was 243 MB and locked. Was yours smaller or did you
reduce the size that much? And AFAIK bookmarking is done manually. With the
file being 762 pages that's a lot of work!
Are we talking about the same thing?
Yes absolutely, it's the same one. Off course I had to unlock it first but reference to VintageTek is still s?there. I use an old Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro and bookmarking isn't that much work, it may have taken me less than 30 minutes. Then again it's only bookmarked every 50'th P/N but it allows you to find a number close to the one you need and then scroll only a few pages. For searching to be efficient you have to be very sure that all pages was correctly OCR'ed and that there were no misses. If you want to have a look at it it's here for a short while: www.hakanh.com/dl/temp/RPR151.pdf /H?kan
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On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 10:01 PM, zenith5106 wrote:
I didn't make a complete new version, I just OCR'ed and bookmarked the one
available on the Wiki.
Hi H?kan, The 151 file I downloaded was 243 MB and locked. Was yours smaller or did you reduce the size that much? And AFAIK bookmarking is done manually. With the file being 762 pages that's a lot of work! Are we talking about the same thing? Raymond
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Re: 1S1 sampling unit; (also 7B53AN & 7A18 plugins)
It might be possible to power a 1S1 from an IO-14 scope but IMO it's deep into "not worth the effort" territory. Do it right and get a Tek mainframe. The 1S1 is a fine sampling system but be aware that it contains a number of different types of tunnel diode which are not known for reliability. Plus it's easy to burn out the sampling diodes. Expect some serious troubleshooting before it's working. You'll need to build or buy a fast-rise pulser to do some of the common adjustments. HTH, Dave Wise ________________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Colin Herbert via groups.io <colingherbert@...> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 10:51 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 1S1 sampling unit; (also 7B53AN & 7A18 plugins) Hi, I have a copy of the IO-14 scope schematic as 4 gif files. I could email it to you if you are interested, but I don't think it would be easy (or useful) to try to connect it to a 1S1. You really need a 500-series Tek scope to use it. Others may have different ideas. Colin. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of dc888@... Sent: 31 August 2020 06:04 To: [email protected]Subject: [TekScopes] 1S1 sampling unit; (also 7B53AN & 7A18 plugins) Hi all, just acquired the above (but missed out on the actual TEK scope), all at a local recycling centre. Would like to buy a TEK scope, working or not, in which I can use the 1S1. Is anyone prepared to dispose of a suitable TEK scope? Plus carriage to Oz at cost. Alternatively there is a Heathkit IO-14 (8MHz, valves/tubes, triggers to 2.5 MHz) on its way to me. Maybe I could use the 1S1 in this, with suitable connections? I have the IO-14 schematic, but Heathkit Manuals have now been commercialised. Any advice appreciated. Thanks & Regards David C.
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On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 09:38 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
Unfortunately, the one available contains so much "detail" that much automatic compression doesn't seem likely
I didn't make a complete new version, I just OCR'ed and bookmarked the one available on the Wiki. /H?kan
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Re: TM500 series plastic face plate repair; solvents?
I have repaired non-styrene plastic with a UV-cured resin called Bondic.
The kit comes with a tube of the resin and a blunt needle-type application
tip built-in. The opposite end includes a UV LED "flashlight". The stuff
cures very quickly on exposure to this light (or other shortwave UV
source). It is clear and needs to be used where the UV light can get to it
or it won't cure. The resulting plastic is hard and quite strong. I fixed
an ID card that cracked at the oval cutout for the neck lanyard. I
reinforced it front and back with pieces of clear plastic cut from a
typical semi-rigid plastic package. That repair has held up very well with
no delamination and despite some flexing of the card. To repair something
like a faceplate, if a small piece is missing, it could be built up with
the resin (best to cure it in "layers") and then sanded and painted to
match. A crack could be repaired from the back and then sanded down. Any
resin that gets into the crack by capillary action will cure when UV
exposed. I fixed a chipped piece of crystal this way - let the resin be
drawn in by capillary action, then UV zapped it. I built it up to bulge
above the surface and then once hardened. used a single-edge razor blade to
cut it down to match the underlying surface.
I admit to not having tried this on any plastic instrument faceplates, but
I think it might work given my experience.
Steve H
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Show quoted text
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 2:56 PM Dave Seiter <d.seiter@...> wrote: In the world of modeling and slot cars (and any other place styrene is
used) there is a repair technique whereby one uses liquid styrene modeling
solvent to "melt" scrap plastic into a goo that can be applied as a filler
to holes, missing sections, or even build up new features that didn't
previously exist. Once the solvent outgasses, the new plastic can be
worked the same as the original. Slot car folks do this all the time,
because kids were encouraged to "modify" their cars, leaving endless cut
wheel wells in their wake. A really good repair is almost invisible, but
usually given away by dirt/slight discoloring in the repair.
Last night I was wondering if the same technique could be applied to all
those broken corners on the TM500 plugins. The plastic isn't styrene, and
while the styrene solvent did dissolve the plastic, it became chalky and
unusable, even the next morning.
Has anyone experimented with this before? Know what type of plastic was
used? It wouldn't be good for large missing sections (too much time
involved), but smaller missing sections could easily be repaired if the
right solvent was found.
-Dave
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On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 09:01 PM, zenith5106 wrote:
FYI, the 151 version I made for my own use, as mentioned in a previous post,
is about 40 Mb.
234 MB seems quite big for the file so I'm not surprised yours is smaller. Unfortunately, the one available contains so much "detail" that much automatic compression doesn't seem likely. As I mentioned in another message, my results still seemed quite OK at 196 MB. It is OCR'ed (not so good) and bookmarked every 50 P/N. Personally I prefer bookmarking over
searching the document.
Depends on the kind of document and the intended use. Some paper books contain bookmarks (TOC-like) *and* are searchable. Searchable is a kind of virtual xref. With the component tables, I far prefer them being searchable over having to bookmark them. Imagine trying to find the Tek number from a JEDEC number in a Tek component number organized list... With HP numbers I find it even worse - in HP lists that is... You can find a specific P/N just as fast if not faster
with bookmarking.
Depending on the file, bookmarking can be a *lot* of work... Raymond
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On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 04:48 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
I have -151 ready, just waiting for "permission"(?) to upload. Good OCR and
size reduced to 196MB with little quality degradation. Non-reduced is also
available, almost same size as before
FYI, the 151 version I made for my own use, as mentioned in a previous post, is about 40 Mb. It is OCR'ed (not so good) and bookmarked every 50 P/N. Personally I prefer bookmarking over searching the document. You can find a specific P/N just as fast if not faster with bookmarking. /H?kan
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Please find my comments embedded. My text refers to the text immediately above it: On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 07:39 PM, Dallas Smith wrote:
Sorry all for any confusion, was just looking for someway to reverse part
lookup. I have a large number of Tek PC Boards to use for parts but take a lot
of time to find an available part from. Was not aware of the TekWiki RPR's
file supplied by the Tek Museum, couldn't find them from the home page index.
In my opinion the RPR files are somewhat useless without the ability to search
them.
I fully agree. I think making them full OCR is different than making them searchable.
Absolutely: - "Full OCR" implies converting a printed (text-)document to a character-by-character computer-redable and -modifiable document. - "Searchable" means that text can be searched on a computer, even if the text is (or seems) part of an image on the computer screen. I think what most of us are looking for is just text searchable, not full-OCR, meaning the document will not be editable or otherwise modified as text. Bookmarks may be added to an unlocked document by a user with the right tool. I sent Raymond an unlocked version on the 155 RPR for him to checkout to see if
it could be compressed more.
The 155-document that I received is searchable (as I got it from Dallas) but hardly compressable further. It's only 11 MB, that's small by comparison with some of the others. Are there more RPR files for other parts available somewhere, such as the 156 parts?
Yes and no. Several are available on Tekwiki, here: Unfortunately, 156 isn't one of them (yet?). Several other interesting ones are available though, like 151 (Transistors). That's a big one (234 MB). I thought that might be caused by the images (each page is an image) being uncompressed or only slightly compressed in the PDF. With the rather poor quality of the images, the right way to "OCR" them is to use the method of adding an invisible text layer put "behind" the images and searching that layer. A hit will cause the (approximate) spot on the image to be highlighted. Most OCR programs can prepare the text layer and PDF-readers see it. I decided to try 151 and have been able to make it text-searchable and compress it a bit (to 196 MB), with very little loss of quality. The two operations aren't linked, so keeping best available quality, not compressed further, would be an option. If the files in their text-searchable form are put back on Tekwiki locked, a user wouldn't be able to compress.
With permission I would be willing to unlock all the PRP files for Raymond to
process.
And I would be willing to process them. Raymond is looking for ways to make large PDF's more usable to us. If
Raymond can not make them searchable I would be willing to spend the four or
more hours to do so if legal, but will still be unlocked.
The example of 151 makes it likely that I would be successful at the others as well. To do that, I would need to know if the intended operation is allowed, IOW is not prohibited by someone's copyright (claim) or (Tek's) release permission. Dave Brown suggested such prohibition. Perhaps after processing, I could submit the files to Dave (Tek Museum) for them to lock and upload.
Any thoughts Dennis?
And Dave Brown? Raymond
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TM500 series plastic face plate repair; solvents?
In the world of modeling and slot cars (and any other place styrene is used) there is a repair technique whereby one uses liquid styrene modeling solvent to "melt" scrap plastic into a goo that can be applied as a filler to holes, missing sections, or even build up new features that didn't previously exist.? Once the solvent outgasses, the new plastic can be worked the same as the original.? Slot car folks do this all the time, because kids were encouraged to "modify" their cars, leaving endless cut wheel wells in their wake.? A really good repair is almost invisible, but usually given away by dirt/slight discoloring in the repair.
Last night I was wondering if the same technique could be applied to all those broken corners on the TM500 plugins.? The plastic isn't styrene, and while the styrene solvent did dissolve the plastic, it became chalky and unusable, even the next morning.??
Has anyone experimented with this before?? Know what type of plastic was used?? It wouldn't be good for large missing sections (too much time involved), but smaller missing sections could easily be repaired if the right solvent was found.
-Dave
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Re: Strange Tek2440 issue
Acquisition stopped, doesn't happen. I can go all the way to 2ns/div.
Normal trigger but trigger set to +or- 90v (not triggering), it happens.
Single, doesn't happen, can go all the way to 2ns/div, can even trigger it (in single) and it doesn't happen. The probe was hooked to the calibrator for the triggers. Normally doesn't matter if there's a signal there or not.
Thanks!
Vince.
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Show quoted text
On 08/31/2020 01:43 PM, Siggi wrote: Hey Vince,
I have no idea what's going on there, though I'd suggest looking at the
power supplies as a first step.
You can also - perhaps - diagnose this a little ways by playing with
trigger and acquisition settings. My guess would be that a power supply is
collapsing when the sample clock exceeds some particular rate, though
that's of course just a guess.
Does this still occur when the acquisition is stopped? If not, you can
maybe narrow this down by e.g. going to NORM sweep/trigger mode, and
setting up a trigger that never hits. Does it still happen when acquisition
is started but no trigger fires? How about under a single-shot acquisition
in AUTO mode, etc.
Siggi
On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:37 PM Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:
I picked up a 2440 on ebay that had the dead nvram battery problem. Got
that fixed up with an external battery. Ran thru the self cal and ext
cal and all seems fine, except when the sweep rate is turned above 100
or 200 ns.
In trying to research this a bit, the only thing I could find was on one
of the Tek forums back in 2017 but there were zero responses. Here is
how the other person described the problem:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The 5 volt regulated rail is getting crowbared when the scope Sec/Div is
set to 100ns or faster. If save is pressed at a slower setting the
Sec/Div can then be set to any value without the 5 Volt rail getting
pulled down. It appears the issue only occurs during an active
acquisition cycle at 100ns Sec/Div or faster.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I didn't measure the 5v rail, the screen shrinks a couple of times
as the waveform changes, the inputs get switched to GND and the display
goes blank. Sometimes, if I'm quick enough, I can turn the sweep back
down (1us or slower) and it'll recover, but I still have to go to the
input coupling and switch the inputs off of GND.
Anyone seen this or have any ideas what's going on?
Thanks!
Vince.
--
K8ZW
--
K8ZW
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Re: 1S1 sampling unit; (also 7B53AN & 7A18 plugins)
Hi,
I have a copy of the IO-14 scope schematic as 4 gif files. I could email it to you if you are interested, but I don't think it would be easy (or useful) to try to connect it to a 1S1. You really need a 500-series Tek scope to use it. Others may have different ideas.
Colin.
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of dc888@... Sent: 31 August 2020 06:04 To: [email protected]Subject: [TekScopes] 1S1 sampling unit; (also 7B53AN & 7A18 plugins) Hi all, just acquired the above (but missed out on the actual TEK scope), all at a local recycling centre. Would like to buy a TEK scope, working or not, in which I can use the 1S1. Is anyone prepared to dispose of a suitable TEK scope? Plus carriage to Oz at cost. Alternatively there is a Heathkit IO-14 (8MHz, valves/tubes, triggers to 2.5 MHz) on its way to me. Maybe I could use the 1S1 in this, with suitable connections? I have the IO-14 schematic, but Heathkit Manuals have now been commercialised. Any advice appreciated. Thanks & Regards David C.
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Re: Strange Tek2440 issue
Hey Vince,
I have no idea what's going on there, though I'd suggest looking at the
power supplies as a first step.
You can also - perhaps - diagnose this a little ways by playing with
trigger and acquisition settings. My guess would be that a power supply is
collapsing when the sample clock exceeds some particular rate, though
that's of course just a guess.
Does this still occur when the acquisition is stopped? If not, you can
maybe narrow this down by e.g. going to NORM sweep/trigger mode, and
setting up a trigger that never hits. Does it still happen when acquisition
is started but no trigger fires? How about under a single-shot acquisition
in AUTO mode, etc.
Siggi
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:37 PM Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:
I picked up a 2440 on ebay that had the dead nvram battery problem. Got
that fixed up with an external battery. Ran thru the self cal and ext
cal and all seems fine, except when the sweep rate is turned above 100
or 200 ns.
In trying to research this a bit, the only thing I could find was on one
of the Tek forums back in 2017 but there were zero responses. Here is
how the other person described the problem:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The 5 volt regulated rail is getting crowbared when the scope Sec/Div is
set to 100ns or faster. If save is pressed at a slower setting the
Sec/Div can then be set to any value without the 5 Volt rail getting
pulled down. It appears the issue only occurs during an active
acquisition cycle at 100ns Sec/Div or faster.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
While I didn't measure the 5v rail, the screen shrinks a couple of times
as the waveform changes, the inputs get switched to GND and the display
goes blank. Sometimes, if I'm quick enough, I can turn the sweep back
down (1us or slower) and it'll recover, but I still have to go to the
input coupling and switch the inputs off of GND.
Anyone seen this or have any ideas what's going on?
Thanks!
Vince.
--
K8ZW
|
Sorry all for any confusion, was just looking for someway to reverse part lookup. I have a large number of Tek PC Boards to use for parts but take a lot of time to find an available part from. Was not aware of the TekWiki RPR's file supplied by the Tek Museum, couldn't find them from the home page index. In my opinion the RPR files are somewhat useless without the ability to search them. I think making them full OCR is different than making them searchable. I send Raymond a unlocked version on the 155 RPR for him to checkout to see if it could be compressed more. Are there more RPR files for other parts available somewhere, such as the 156 parts?
With permission I would be willing to unlock all the PRP files for Raymond to process. Raymond is looking for ways to make large PDF's more usable to us. If Raymond can not make them searchable I would be willing to spend the four or more hours to do so if legal, but will still be unlocked.
Any thoughts Dennis?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 09:21 PM, Dallas Smith wrote:
Hello today,
Is there a master list somewhere for reverse part number lockups. Provide a
part number to see what Tek models use that part. Tek must have had mainframe
computer listings of such data? Any retired Tek employees here have access to
such a list? Tek might sign off for such a request from old equipment that
they will never support.
The obvious answer is no such luck.
Dallas
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1S1 sampling unit; (also 7B53AN & 7A18 plugins)
Hi all,
just acquired the above (but missed out on the actual TEK scope), all at a local recycling centre.
Would like to buy a TEK scope, working or not, in which I can use the 1S1.
Is anyone prepared to dispose of a suitable TEK scope? Plus carriage to Oz at cost.
Alternatively there is a Heathkit IO-14 (8MHz, valves/tubes, triggers to 2.5 MHz) on its way to me.
Maybe I could use the 1S1 in this, with suitable connections? I have the IO-14 schematic, but Heathkit Manuals have now been commercialised.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks & Regards
David C.
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Re: 4-pin Lemo connector used on end of cable for 4041 PD keyboard
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 06:04 PM, Gary Robert Bosworth wrote:
If the
connector is the correct one (it is only about 5/16" diameter with a
"D"-shaped 4-pin insulator inside), name your price and I will pay through
any means you desire. I will contact you in a day or so to remind you of
my needs. Bye for now.
Hi Gary, I checked. It is indeed the connector that I thought. It is the same Tek used for the power supply connection of probes like the P6201 and P6202A. You'll find the same sockets on 'scopes like the 7104, 7854, 7904(A). It is Tek part no. 131-0778-00. The 1101 PSU has four sockets for them. I checked and double-checked the Lemo part no: FFA.0S.304.CLAC42. Digikey (USA) currently has 5 in stock @ a lot of money, something like USD 30. I have only a few left (as sets with sockets, actually, have a few more sockets and counter-plugs) and sending from the Netherlands may be costly, maybe about (half) as much as the Digikey price. That would leave little left for me if I'd want to "compete". Have a look and if you still want me to send one (Digikey total cost, order cost), let me know your ZIP code, I'll check postal costs and we can go from there. Raymond
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Re: Strange Tek2440 issue
Repet on, Repet off, no difference.
Vince.
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Show quoted text
On 08/31/2020 01:42 AM, Roger Evans via groups.io wrote: 100nsec per div and faster sounds like the switch from real time sampling to equivalent time interpolation (300Msample/sec real time). You can turn off the equivalent time mode by going to the Acquire menu and setting 'Repet' to Off. If that enables you to get to faster sweep speeds then the problem is clearly in the circuitry that does the equivalent time interpolation but I would need a thorough read of the manual to go into any detail!
Regards,
Roger
--
K8ZW
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Re: TDS3054 Replacement of DALLAS DS1742W (U640), data content in NV-RAM
some of the chinese fakes do actually work and identical to the original but since their date code is also old they ma not last that long
I also got several fakes that didnt work until I got this one that worked as yours does. The fakes that didnt work are visibly larger in size than the original one
I also got a fake one that worked perfectly fine as DS1742 but not as a DS1742W !
but I am surprised that why your clock is not working. The chip that I got worked. But as I said the date code is already 12 years old so it may not last
assuming that it is a real date code!
as far as I know the hours are stored at those two places. when I changed both to a new number the scope showed the correct # of hours
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Re: TDS3054 Replacement of DALLAS DS1742W (U640), data content in NV-RAM
Hello all,
thank you very much for your replies. Here is my list of
actions (so far):
1.
The 'chinese part' worked ok in a programmer (readable,
writeable, reasonable content in the registers 0x7F8...0x7FF), also see
my question A. below
2.
I desoldered the old DS1742W from the TDS3054 mainboard and
replaced it with socket strips
3.
I programmed the chinese DS1742W with all 0xFF in the address range
0x000...0x7F7 (not touching the registers).
4.
I put the chinese DS1742W into the socket and powered the scope up for
a couple of minutes and to have a look into the system menus.
- date/time appeared as '6 Apr 22 2:40:80' (not counting up)
- Cal menu text: 'The last factory calibration occurred 0 (operating) hours
ago on 19-Dec-2001
- Cal menu text: 'The last SPC occured 0 (operating) hours ago on 8-Nov-2006'
- System Errors: 15, Display Errors: 15 (so no errors on other subunits)
- Total operating time: 0 hours
- Number of Power Ups: 206
Also see my question B. below
5.
After shutting down the scope I read out the chinese DS1742W on the
programmer to see which entries had been changed from 0xFF to
something else. Following is the RAM content by address:
0x000 ... 0x297, mixture of random-looking values
0x298 ... 0x61F, all bytes 0x00
0x620 ... 0x63F, all bytes 0xFF
0x640 ... 0x6DB, mostly 0x00 but also non-zero values in between
0x6DC ... 0x7DF, all bytes 0xFF
0x7E0...0x7E3, 4 bytes: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x04
0x7E4 ... 0x7E7, 4 bytes: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x04
0x7E8...0x7EB, 4 bytes: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x04
0x7EC ... 0x7EF, 4 bytes: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
0x7F0 ... 0x7F7, all bytes 0xFF
0x7F8...0x7FF, register map as described in datasheet.
Also see my question C. below
Questions and remarks:
A.
What 'special characteristics' can be found with a
chinese fake chip? Is it an empty housing containing
nothing but only rows of pins sticking out?
My chinese version had the exact physical
appearance of the housing and the same look of the
potting from the bottom side.
Weight:
Chip from TDS3054: 7,21g
Chinese DS1742W: 7,38g
B.
The clock cannot be running because the /OSC-bit
register 0x7F9 bit7 is set to '1'. The scope obviously
does not reprogram this bit.
The number of power ups seems to be stored somewhere
else but not in the DS1742W. The value of '206' is ok because
it was at '203' when the scope operated correctly the last time
before the DS1742W failed.
C.
The scope seems to write nearly into the whole memory,
the content at 0x000 ... 0x297 seems to be 'mystery' (or
perhaps random garbage).
The value (hex) 00 00 00 04 appears 3 times. Could it
be that the total operating time is stored 3 times
(and not twice as written by AMIRB)?
The value 4 is reasonable because the scope was
switched on for about 4 minutes.
Any remarks on the meaning of the other values?
Thanks again!
Best regards
-Roland
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On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 04:48 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
I have -151 ready, just waiting for "permission"(?) to upload. Good OCR and
size reduced to 196MB with little quality degradation. Non-reduced is also
available, almost same size as before.
I'm giving this another try in this thread. This message is directed at Dave Brown (Tek Museum): 1. Do you consider these files free to unlock for the purpose of OCR'ing, possibly reducing in size, and re-uploading to TekWiki or not, either because of a copyright claim or a necessary/missing release by Tektronix not allowing this use? 2. If you consider them not free for the above purpose, will you propose a way forward to make them available? Raymond
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zenith5106
Raymond Domp Frank