Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Not a fan of toggle bolts anywhere on a boat: ?they are made to work only in tension, not shear or compression, their prongs concentrate stress on small points ?- which is bad if it's on the actual fiberglass... less bad if resting on a backing board of some kind... but they also corrode pretty quickly unless made of the right materials. ?These did a number on the footrails of my Butterfly scow when the previous owner used them, so I have a bad relationship with them, I mean hate them hate them hate them. ?Your mileage may vary.
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 3:24:13 PM CDT, Michael King <mrmike17@...> wrote:
I had the problem with my old style rudder.? Go ahead and put in the inspection port now.? It is a pretty easy job.? Then you can thru drill the hole and put on a nut and washer.? If you after the season decide to convert to the new style rudder, the port
will already be there? If the wood is not too rotted, you can jam a piece of wood in the hole and rethread in the screw.? I have done that many times on things besides boats were a hole is rotted or just worn out.? I scored on a trade the rudder hardware so
I converted mine the? spring loaded style as opposed to the break away style.
Mr MIke
Being that the only good place for a inspection port is right where the older style rudder mounts, Idk that I would go to the effort to install an inspection port to fix a backing board on an older style rudder. I would first epoxy the hole
and re drill the hole. If that didn’t hold I would use an expanding fastener. The rudder mount in that area is not a high stress area. If the rudder is attached correctly, it would not need much to hold it.?
If none of those options worked Then I would decide on if I liked that boat enough to update the rudder.?
Having said that. There are lots of good reasons to install the inspection port and update the rudder. But that’s a bigger decision.?
Rick
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM turluck < gail@...> wrote:
That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good
glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back
to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
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Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
I had the problem with my old style rudder.? Go ahead and put in the inspection port now.? It is a pretty easy job.? Then you can thru drill the hole and put on a nut and washer.? If you after the season decide to convert to the new style rudder, the port
will already be there? If the wood is not too rotted, you can jam a piece of wood in the hole and rethread in the screw.? I have done that many times on things besides boats were a hole is rotted or just worn out.? I scored on a trade the rudder hardware so
I converted mine the? spring loaded style as opposed to the break away style.
Mr MIke
Being that the only good place for a inspection port is right where the older style rudder mounts, Idk that I would go to the effort to install an inspection port to fix a backing board on an older style rudder. I would first epoxy the hole
and re drill the hole. If that didn’t hold I would use an expanding fastener. The rudder mount in that area is not a high stress area. If the rudder is attached correctly, it would not need much to hold it.?
If none of those options worked Then I would decide on if I liked that boat enough to update the rudder.?
Having said that. There are lots of good reasons to install the inspection port and update the rudder. But that’s a bigger decision.?
Rick
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM turluck < gail@...> wrote:
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Show quoted text
That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good
glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back
to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Being that the only good place for a inspection port is right where the older style rudder mounts, Idk that I would go to the effort to install an inspection port to fix a backing board on an older style rudder. I would first epoxy the hole and re drill the hole. If that didn’t hold I would use an expanding fastener. The rudder mount in that area is not a high stress area. If the rudder is attached correctly, it would not need much to hold it.?
If none of those options worked Then I would decide on if I liked that boat enough to update the rudder.?
Having said that. There are lots of good reasons to install the inspection port and update the rudder. But that’s a bigger decision.?
Rick
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM turluck < gail@...> wrote: That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
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Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Those dotted lines show the location of the foam flotation blocks.?
If your just dealing with the screw issue I would repair with epoxy as previously described.?
Installing an inspection port in the area indicated is for when your upgrading to the newer style rudder. Your right you can’t put an inspection port where your current rudder brackets are. ? Deciding to update the rudder requires a bit more in terms of cost and effort.?
Hope that helps.?
Rick? Las Cruces,NM
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:23 AM Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Thanks everyone for your suggestions.? Installing an inspection port looks easier than I imagined.? Because it would have multiple benefits, I will likely do that.? But I might try to epoxy it first just to get some sailing in -- I don't have my tools here to do the port installation.??
I watched a video on doing a port installation - very helpful.? Any specific placement of a rear port for this model Sunfish?? I found this recommendation online ()??but this location won't work - would be right under the rudder hardware.? To the side of this okay?? Are those dotted lines supports? on the inside of the hull or the deck?? Don't want to mess this up.? Thanks!? ?Kristen
I agree with installing inspection port in the deck. You actually should have that anyway. I would also install one towards the bow. Given the age of the boat I'm sure there is some moisture inside. When you have these 2 ports you can open them up and place a fan over one of them to help dry it out.?
Jimmy Schools?
"Freedom Won"?1974 CAL 2-29? Norfolk VA.?
? ? ? ?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 04:17:04 PM EDT, Hugh Gardner via <hughcg= [email protected]> wrote:
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
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Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Kristin - To get you on the water for the season, maybe insert on of those wall toggle bolts and put a bunch of sealant around the hole.
?
Richard
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Mark Suszko via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 3:30 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SunfishSailor] Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
?
The dotted line show where the foam floatation/support blocks are inside. You want to keep from removing too much of that foam, though excess expanding foam "glue" glopped
around their bases can be picked away, as that stuff just soaks up water and makes the boat heavy, I have an inspection port on the aft deck of my 1977 Sunfish, put in by a previous owner. It is offset and does cut into the foam a bit on the starboard aft
corner.
Instead of a permanent port there, you could cut the circle more cleanly, then replace it afterwards... another thing to think about regarding the rudder is to just upgrade
to a modern rudder system all the way, rather than the old "break-away" system.
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 1:36:35 PM CDT, Steve King <steve@...> wrote:
I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull
become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the
transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons. The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
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Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
The dotted line show where the foam floatation/support blocks are inside. You want to keep from removing too much of that foam, though excess expanding foam "glue" glopped around their bases can be picked away, as that stuff just soaks up water and makes the boat heavy, I have an inspection port on the aft deck of my 1977 Sunfish, put in by a previous owner. It is offset and does cut into the foam a bit on the starboard aft corner.
Instead of a permanent port there, you could cut the circle more cleanly, then replace it afterwards... another thing to think about regarding the rudder is to just upgrade to a modern rudder system all the way, rather than the old "break-away" system.
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 1:36:35 PM CDT, Steve King <steve@...> wrote:
I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons. The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
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Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
I think the dotted lines suggest the placement of the closed cell foam blocks that provide both structural rigidity for the hull as well as flotation should the hull become filled with water. I have put inspection ports in the stern of a couple of Sunfish. I found the foam block placement to be a little different on each hull. I had to remove some of the center-line foam block in both cases in order to have access to the transom, where I needed to add a backing block for the rudder gudgeons. The boat will not suffer for the loss of a part of that foam block. I used a key-hole saw to remove a little bit at a time until I could see my work area.?
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
That 50 year old backing board inside the hull is damaged.? Best to install a 6" inspection port in the middle of the back deck and replace the board.? Yes,? epoxy the hole in bottom of boat.? Redrill and install bottom bracket,? use a good glob of silicone sealer in the hole.??
When I've gotten to this point is when I've converted to modern stainless transom mounted rudder gudgeon bracket and modern kick up ruder system,? but that's an investment.? If you're recreational sailing,? not worth it.? ?
Over the winter if you can store the boat someplace secure (no rodents/insects) and even slightly warm,? leave the inspection cover off so the hull can dry out.? If you can circulate air,? all the better.? It is possible to get the boat back to 130 pounds,? I've done it.?
Good luck.?
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.? Installing an inspection port looks easier than I imagined.? Because it would have multiple benefits, I will likely do that.? But I might try to epoxy it first just to get some sailing in -- I don't have my tools here to do the port installation.??
I watched a video on doing a port installation - very helpful.? Any specific placement of a rear port for this model Sunfish?? I found this recommendation online ()??but this location won't work - would be right under the rudder hardware.? To the side of this okay?? Are those dotted lines supports? on the inside of the hull or the deck?? Don't want to mess this up.? Thanks!? ?Kristen
I agree with installing inspection port in the deck. You actually should have that anyway. I would also install one towards the bow. Given the age of the boat I'm sure there is some moisture inside. When you have these 2 ports you can open them up and place a fan over one of them to help dry it out.?
Jimmy Schools?
"Freedom Won"?1974 CAL 2-29? Norfolk VA.?
? ? ? ?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 04:17:04 PM EDT, Hugh Gardner via <hughcg= [email protected]> wrote:
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
I agree with installing inspection port in the deck. You actually should have that anyway. I would also install one towards the bow. Given the age of the boat I'm sure there is some moisture inside. When you have these 2 ports you can open them up and place a fan over one of them to help dry it out.?
Jimmy Schools?
"Freedom Won"?1974 CAL 2-29? Norfolk VA.?
? ? ? ?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 04:17:04 PM EDT, Hugh Gardner via groups.io <hughcg@...> wrote:
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid
On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber <kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
May I suggest adding some wood flour or cut glass floss to the epoxy, to give the screw more to bite into than just resin. ?And if you contemplate ever removing the screw, maybe you wanna thread it in while the resin is half-cured, then back it out and wait for it to fully harden before screwing it back in. ?Some may think this is over-doing it, and they're not wrong, but it's how I'd approach it.
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:30:16 PM CDT, Mark Hanson <mchdch@...> wrote:
Yes I would over drill a bit then dry it out or use wet epoxy (push or inject it into the hole) let it dry redrill pilot hole and reset the screw, a shorter one, I usually put a little sealer on all my hull penetrating screws, not glue just a sealer.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:49 PM Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish.? Seems to be a 1969 model.?
?The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.?
Photos here:?
Is this the right screw/part?? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw?? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed?? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine.? I have sailed it in light winds. ??
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage. ?
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Yes I would over drill a bit then dry it out or use wet epoxy (push or inject it into the hole) let it dry redrill pilot hole and reset the screw, a shorter one, I usually put a little sealer on all my hull penetrating screws, not glue just a sealer.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 2:49 PM Kristen Fehlhaber < kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish.? Seems to be a 1969 model.?
?The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.?
Photos here:?
Is this the right screw/part?? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw?? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed?? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine.? I have sailed it in light winds. ??
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage. ?
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
I would put an inspection port on the deck above and replace the backer board in the bottom of hull
Sent from my Verizon Motorola Droid
On Jul 7, 2020 3:38 PM, Kristen Fehlhaber <kfehlhaber@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. Seems to be a 1969 model.
The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.
Photos here:
Is this the right screw/part? Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. I have sailed it in light winds.
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage.
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Re: Leak at traveler - minifish
Put a blind patch inside the hole and let it dry. Then build layers of fiberglass cloth up on the patch, fair, sand, paint (or gelcoat)
--
Cheers
Clark and Skipper
Our blog
Our book?
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Re: Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Water should not drain from there, that means someone put in too long of a screw and went all the way through the internal wooden backer block.
?
Try thickened epoxy in the hole, THIXO or FLEXPOXY. The screw only needs to be an inch long. The rudder will not stay secure if that latch plate is not secure.
--
Cheers
Clark and Skipper
Our blog
Our book?
|
Help with pre-1972 rudder mount
Hi everyone,
I was just given this Sunfish. ?Seems to be a 1969 model.?
?The lower plate of the rudder mount on the bottom of the boat has a screw in it that doesn’t grab hold of anything any more.?
Photos here:?
Is this the right screw/part? ?Can I put something in the hole (epoxy? Brand? ) and drill a new hole for the screw? ?Is it dangerous to sail this before it’s properly fixed? ?The rest of the rudder mount seems fine. ?I have sailed it in light winds. ??
PS - i used this screw hole to drain water that was in it after long storage. ?
Thanks for any help - Kristen on Lake Champlain
|
Re: Leak at traveler - minifish
?
I grew up in a public sailing club. All the boats (originally Rebels, starting in 1960 and then O’Day Day Sailors started sometime in the 1970’s) were built using polyester resin. The “use and abuse” they underwent as training boats for rank
beginners, both youth and adults, proved the strength, flexibility AND rigidity (when needed) of polyester and fiberglass construction. These were U. S. built boats, so I cannot comment on boats built in China. The Day Sailors are still going strong. I don’t
remember who said it: but there never was nor has been any hint of “water infiltration into fiberglass/polyester combination.
"When does he ever think? If he were to sell his brain, he could claim it had never been used.
? ? ? ? ? ? ?Sharon Kay Penman:
?Devil's Brood;
?Chapter 7
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On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:25 AM, Mark Suszko <mark.suszko@...> wrote:
?
The entire boat was made from polyester resin, ever since they switched from using wood. At least for fifty years' worth of production. I'd be curious to know if the more recent builds in China or England are made from polyester
or epoxy resin.
You can find Bondo resin, hardener, cloth and filler, cheaply in any auto parts store and also the auto parts section of Home Repair megastores. A small basic kit is around twenty bucks, some come with a small pack of glass
cloth, but you generally have a better selection of cloth and mat online.
Polyester does have a pungent odor as you mix it; you want to do this outside or in a well-ventilated garage or shop, and wear nitrile gloves and maybe a respirator. OTOH, most of our repairs are not really very large, the
quantities used are small, so the exposure risk isn't quite as bad. ?It's not super-common but you *can* develop an allergy to either Polyester OR epoxy if you over-expose to them, so be careful and hygienic using either one.
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Re: Leak at traveler - minifish
Butter the inside of that mold with the PVA release compound, insert epoxy and glass cloth, press it in well and let cure... ?the patch that comes out should be a perfect match in contour and surface texture for the missing/damaged area; you can cut that to suit and apply it over the rest of the repair, fair it out and sand, sand, sand…
To get the patch to sit snug in the corner of your mold, give it just enough resin that it wets fully and has a surface-tension bond plastering it against the mold, but not any more resin than that or else it won’t be plastered tight. ?Start with painting the mold with a modest layer of resin and pressing the fabric into that, jabbing with the bristles of your chip brush. ?To wet it out with just enough resin, take your chip brush and stipple, stipple, stipple, adding only as much resin as you really have to. You can also choose whether for this molded, shape-reproducing patch to be laid up of a single layer of fabric, or else maybe two or three, if your repair is at a high-abrasion spot. ? Or as a sort of intermediate approach, if your underlying structural repair is kind of rounded at the edge, you can figure out how much gap there is at the corner, and fill just that part of the molded shape with some wetted-out strands of glass yarn laid in lengthwise, that you ravel from a scrap of glass fabric. ?
You can also fill any remaining space — or that whole space if you’re not so concerned — with a putty made of resin that you’ve thickened with a mix of microfibers and colloidal silica. ?The fibers make it sturdy (almost like a rock if you use enough) and the silica makes it sit still while you’re placing it — you can thicken it to where it’s like peanut butter if you need to — and the silica also gives a lot of abrasion resistance. ?(Something to consider before you use it in putty that you’ll need to be sanding.) ?Mix up an excess, and pile in some extra at the middle, tapering toward the edges, so that as you squash the patch into place it’ll chase out the bubbles. ?Then take your spreader and scoop off the excess squeeze-out, and butter the edges smooth (err on the full side so you can sand it flush).
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Re: Leak at traveler - minifish
One possible technique for your corners is to first take a mold off a clean, good ?immediately adjoining section. You coat the chine or keel area with something that will prevent the epoxy from adhering. This is anything from a few coats of PVA to cling wrap, wax paper or polyethylene sheet from a ?ziploc bag... you lay some resin over that and press down some very light glass cloth over it. Let that cure, it pops off and now you have a copy of the contour on the inside of that piece. Butter the inside of that mold with the PVA release compound, insert epoxy and glass cloth, press it in well and let cure... ?the patch that comes out should be a perfect match in contour and surface texture for the missing/damaged area; you can cut that to suit and apply it over the rest of the repair, fair it out and sand, sand, sand... could look very "factory" if you apply enough time to it. That's not a structural repair, mind you; it's just the final layer you put on the actual repair. ?
Cost-effective? heck no; almost no repairs you do really are on a really old boat, but that's not why we do them? :-)
I've also learned a lot from this conversational debate and am impressed at how diplomatic everyone has been. Next: adjudicating lee-bow and windward boat situations:-)
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 10:17:58 AM CDT, Shawn L <shawn@...> wrote:
It's actually not that hard.? There's a couple of ways to go about it, depending on how big the area is.? This is how I've done it on the boats I've built, but there are a ton of other ways to do it.
For a small spot I use a chip brush (cheap) or a 4" foam roller and put some epoxy on the area you're working on.? Then carefully lay on the fiberglass mat.? For a larger area, I place the fiberglass mat on the area dry and smooth out all the wrinkles I can then use the roller or brush to carefully (the mat will want to slide) apply some epoxy.
One of the tricks I've found is to save every piece of plastic?like grocery store loyalty cards, old credit cards, etc.? They make really nice spreaders.? Once you have some epoxy on the mat, use the card to go over the entire area.? The mat takes a while to soak in the epoxy and you don't want it "floating" in the epoxy.? The card helps you press it down and lets you scrape off the excess fairly quickly.? On the first coat, you're aiming to have no bubbles in the cloth and to have the entire coth wet.? Don't try to fill in the weave of the mat now.? Just get it so it's stuck down and uniformly wet -- you'll see a color change when you do it.? Dry spots will be more whiteish.? Once you get it all wet out, use the card to scrape off (carefully) any excess epoxy.? Then you wait.
You can wait until it's dry and do some touch up sanding if needed.? Or once it's barely tacky you can apply another coat.? This time you can use the roller and put more on to start to fill the weave.? This may take multiple coats, depending on the thickness of? the mat.? If you're doing multiple layers of mat this is the time to add the next layer and repeat.
The plastic card lets you move the cloth a little as you go, so you should be able to apply it to a 90 degree corner, etc.? If the corner is bad, build it up with thickened epoxy (wood flour, saw dust, etc) or use fairing compound.? If there are holes and gaps you'll never get the cloth to lay right and will have air pockets.
If you get air pockets, you can use a utility knife to cut them out once things are dry.? Then sand and fill the little hole, and add a new section of mat over the hole.
It sounds a lot harder than it is.? It just takes time because you have to leave it alone and let it dry between coats.
I appreciate and celebrate that my original question has brought about spirited debate?and a wealth of knowledge.? I thought I'd take a minute and update everyone on what I've decided to do.
I looked into the West repair kit.? Oddly, it's cheapest on Amazon and with free shipping, I can't beat that.??
Obviously I decided to go with epoxy.? Why?? It'll work and is readily available in a repair kit that won't bust the bank.?
My next trick will be figuring out how to make those corners (chine and keel) continue to look like corners.? You can find a ton of videos online of fiberglass repair of flat spots.? Well, I get that you need to crawl before you can walk, and it's iffy whether I can even crawl at this point.? But I haven't found anything on repairing a cornered shape.? I remember trying to fix a corner of sheetrock back in the day with no success.? I'll try to keep in mind "Any fiberglass problem can be fixed with a sufficient amount of sanding" and the fact this boat will never be in the boat show.
My many thanks for the information and opinions from this board. I'm sure I'll muck up something and have more questions along the way.
My best regards,
-Joel __________________________________________________
Joel?
Ventilation is important when using polyester resin.? I once had a job as a patternmaker?for a company that made aerodynamic fairings for trucks.? The building I worked in was very large but my work area was near the spray booth where they used the chop gun with the resin/glass mixture.? The doors to the building were usually open but one particular day it was quite cold outside and the doors were closed and the smell of the resin was quite heavy.? At one point I needed to take a measurement with my tape.? I could see the numbers and all the hash marks and my vision was perfectly clear.? But my brain could not tell me what all of that meant and I had no idea what the measurement was.? I turned and walked out to get a few breaths of fresh air, then came back in, picked up my tools, and left for the day.? As far as I know, there was no lasting damage.? I didn't stay in the job much longer.
James
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 7:24 PM crispin_m_miller < crispinmm@...> wrote: Thanks.? At the place I bought it (in 1984) that was the only kind on the shelf.? Later saw catalog listings for polyester resin “with wax” and “no wax.”? Just didn’t want Joel to get surprised.
cm
> On Jul 6, 2020, at 5:14 PM, gdinwiddie <sunfish@...> wrote:
>
>> On 7/6/20 5:50 PM, crispin_m_miller wrote:
>> At least in the days when I last used polyester (35 years ago) some polyester resin would come with a little bit of wax mixed in, which would float to the surface and seal it well enough that the catalyst would stay in and the surface would cure.? BUT then if you had another layer of glass to apply, you’d have to get that wax off or you’d get no adhesion at all.
>
> Yes, they call that "finishing resin." I've never used it. It made more sense to me to get some PVA (which is also used as a mold release) than to get two kinds of resin for the small amount of glasswork I do.
>
> - George
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Re: Leak at traveler - minifish
It's actually not that hard.? There's a couple of ways to go about it, depending on how big the area is.? This is how I've done it on the boats I've built, but there are a ton of other ways to do it.
For a small spot I use a chip brush (cheap) or a 4" foam roller and put some epoxy on the area you're working on.? Then carefully lay on the fiberglass mat.? For a larger area, I place the fiberglass mat on the area dry and smooth out all the wrinkles I can then use the roller or brush to carefully (the mat will want to slide) apply some epoxy.
One of the tricks I've found is to save every piece of plastic?like grocery store loyalty cards, old credit cards, etc.? They make really nice spreaders.? Once you have some epoxy on the mat, use the card to go over the entire area.? The mat takes a while to soak in the epoxy and you don't want it "floating" in the epoxy.? The card helps you press it down and lets you scrape off the excess fairly quickly.? On the first coat, you're aiming to have no bubbles in the cloth and to have the entire coth wet.? Don't try to fill in the weave of the mat now.? Just get it so it's stuck down and uniformly wet -- you'll see a color change when you do it.? Dry spots will be more whiteish.? Once you get it all wet out, use the card to scrape off (carefully) any excess epoxy.? Then you wait.
You can wait until it's dry and do some touch up sanding if needed.? Or once it's barely tacky you can apply another coat.? This time you can use the roller and put more on to start to fill the weave.? This may take multiple coats, depending on the thickness of? the mat.? If you're doing multiple layers of mat this is the time to add the next layer and repeat.
The plastic card lets you move the cloth a little as you go, so you should be able to apply it to a 90 degree corner, etc.? If the corner is bad, build it up with thickened epoxy (wood flour, saw dust, etc) or use fairing compound.? If there are holes and gaps you'll never get the cloth to lay right and will have air pockets.
If you get air pockets, you can use a utility knife to cut them out once things are dry.? Then sand and fill the little hole, and add a new section of mat over the hole.
It sounds a lot harder than it is.? It just takes time because you have to leave it alone and let it dry between coats.
I appreciate and celebrate that my original question has brought about spirited debate?and a wealth of knowledge.? I thought I'd take a minute and update everyone on what I've decided to do.
I looked into the West repair kit.? Oddly, it's cheapest on Amazon and with free shipping, I can't beat that.??
Obviously I decided to go with epoxy.? Why?? It'll work and is readily available in a repair kit that won't bust the bank.?
My next trick will be figuring out how to make those corners (chine and keel) continue to look like corners.? You can find a ton of videos online of fiberglass repair of flat spots.? Well, I get that you need to crawl before you can walk, and it's iffy whether I can even crawl at this point.? But I haven't found anything on repairing a cornered shape.? I remember trying to fix a corner of sheetrock back in the day with no success.? I'll try to keep in mind "Any fiberglass problem can be fixed with a sufficient amount of sanding" and the fact this boat will never be in the boat show.
My many thanks for the information and opinions from this board. I'm sure I'll muck up something and have more questions along the way.
My best regards,
-Joel __________________________________________________
Joel?
Ventilation is important when using polyester resin.? I once had a job as a patternmaker?for a company that made aerodynamic fairings for trucks.? The building I worked in was very large but my work area was near the spray booth where they used the chop gun with the resin/glass mixture.? The doors to the building were usually open but one particular day it was quite cold outside and the doors were closed and the smell of the resin was quite heavy.? At one point I needed to take a measurement with my tape.? I could see the numbers and all the hash marks and my vision was perfectly clear.? But my brain could not tell me what all of that meant and I had no idea what the measurement was.? I turned and walked out to get a few breaths of fresh air, then came back in, picked up my tools, and left for the day.? As far as I know, there was no lasting damage.? I didn't stay in the job much longer.
James
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 7:24 PM crispin_m_miller < crispinmm@...> wrote: Thanks.? At the place I bought it (in 1984) that was the only kind on the shelf.? Later saw catalog listings for polyester resin “with wax” and “no wax.”? Just didn’t want Joel to get surprised.
cm
> On Jul 6, 2020, at 5:14 PM, gdinwiddie <sunfish@...> wrote:
>
>> On 7/6/20 5:50 PM, crispin_m_miller wrote:
>> At least in the days when I last used polyester (35 years ago) some polyester resin would come with a little bit of wax mixed in, which would float to the surface and seal it well enough that the catalyst would stay in and the surface would cure.? BUT then if you had another layer of glass to apply, you’d have to get that wax off or you’d get no adhesion at all.
>
> Yes, they call that "finishing resin." I've never used it. It made more sense to me to get some PVA (which is also used as a mold release) than to get two kinds of resin for the small amount of glasswork I do.
>
> - George
>
>
>
|
Steve King
turluck
Signal Charlie