Re: What happened to climate change?
Especially here, Ed, I would hope we could apply rational and trained thought to avoid?this trap! Excellent point.
D
On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 2:34?PM Ed Lomas < relomas2@...> wrote: CS Lewis, the author and Christian theologian, was, perhaps not surprisingly, a great advocate of reading old books. This, he argued, forcibly reminded you that every age had its characteristic assumptions and errors. Past controversies showed that “both sides were usually assuming without question a good deal which we should now absolutely deny”, and were “all the time secretly united ... by a great mass of common assumptions”. Lewis’s point was that we should try to remember the same thing would be true of the present day, too: there would be assumptions so widespread, so taken for granted, that they would go unquestioned and unchallenged."
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Ed Lomas via <relomas2=[email protected]> wrote:
From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet airplanes.Ed On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez via <perezbem= [email protected]> wrote: Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y? ?
- Mirá las novedades: Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem #CustomsaduanaS #ForoATAsARG #DJONP #DJCP #TAD
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió:
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the
hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the
experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with
multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the
ocean again.
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be
wrong?!
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
I hear you, Celeste (well, I read?you!)?
I guess I have little confidence that the constant arguing will lead to change. The bulk of the human swarm is too busy starving and dealing with such immediate problems as disease or bullets.? Those in charge of the accused industries are focused on profits and those in charge of the public welfare are focused on, well, profits. Or bullets. Not everyone, but I see no hope for a warm global hug that will suddenly bring all of the human?bustle to a standstill.
Although, Covid sort of did for a moment. My urban home was so quiet and the air actually smelled so much fresher. For a week or three. It was glorious.
D
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's all been looked at and it has nothing
to do with fossil fuel burning, which is what has been happening
for the last 100 or so years. The average global temperature has
already risen and we have the capability to prevent the impending
disasters that continued temperature rise would cause. Interesting
to see that you care so little about your fellow humans.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 9:26 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed
by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were
several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm
spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple
hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is
excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet
airplanes.
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez wrote:
Ahh the britannica, it was one of the
"important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two rules:
there are some macro patterns or whatever that have
changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding
icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly
human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage
of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple
of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that
just takes a look and verified by any number of
scientific and economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is
what causes the first macro changes: is it human
driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything
about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human
influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in
Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general
temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has
been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's
still room for faith and cherrypicking the science
that will support one explanation or the other.
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART,
Celeste escribió:
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong?
Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
The "worst drought in recorded history"
?disappeared-despite the experts (soothsayers)
learned predictions.
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as
usual, with multi-million dollar homes built on
dirt cliffs sliding into the ocean again.
How could a consensus of climate experts
possibly be wrong?!
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Exactly, Marvin. As is probably apparent now, the biggest surprise for me is that people spend so much time arguing the point in social interactions as opposed to considering coping skills for it. Or even just using the time to study the situation. We can correlate changes to weather patterns with possibly contributing human?behavioral patterns, but it has become blaringly obvious after witnessing?endless hours of tedious discussion and argument that humanity is not favoring the adoption of new behaviors. After years (decades?) of argument, the mob remains unconvinced.? A few wind farms and some new reactors are not a concerted global alarmed reaction to prophesied doom. We want to continue our personal paths without being too badly inconvenienced (except for Greta.)
So, really, the question is more, "Whatcha gonna do?"
D
On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:39?PM mrvnchpmn < chapman@...> wrote:
?
I live on a Pelstocene Marine Terrace left over from a period about 12,000 years ago when sea level was about a hundred feet higher.? And fossils on the sea floor off my coast indicate that sometime not long before that sea levels were about fifty feet lower.
Change hapnens - deal with it
Marvin
From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet airplanes.
Ed
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez via <perezbem= [email protected]> wrote:
Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
?
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
?
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
?
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
?
?
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana
Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y?
?
- Mirá las novedades:
Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
?
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem
#CustomsaduanaS
#ForoATAsARG
#DJONP #DJCP #TAD
?
?
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió: ?
?
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
?
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
?
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
?
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the ocean again.
?
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be wrong?!
?
?
?
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Agreed, Marvin. Not new and possibly not due to human?behavior?(or perhaps we do contribute in some way?), but certainly worth some practical evaluation. After all, who wants to ruin the wine supply because he did not do his due diligence around selecting vineyard locations?
D
On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:37?PM mrvnchpmn < chapman@...> wrote:
?
During the Medieval Warm Period wine grapes were grown in England.? During the 1816 cold year the Thames froze.? So climate swings are not new.
Marvin
From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet airplanes.
Ed
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez via <perezbem= [email protected]> wrote:
Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
?
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
?
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
?
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
?
?
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana
Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y?
?
- Mirá las novedades:
Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
?
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem
#CustomsaduanaS
#ForoATAsARG
#DJONP #DJCP #TAD
?
?
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió: ?
?
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
?
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
?
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
?
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the ocean again.
?
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be wrong?!
?
?
?
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Perfect example to illustrate the point I just posted, Ed. Thank you.
You may be right and I would feel silly debating that point even if I were convinced otherwise. The evidence is suggestive but not conclusive. Fortunately for me, I am more concerned with sussing out what changes I need to make to my own life in order to comfortably cope with the changes in the wider world. I am far less concerned with the possibility that humans cause climate change due to technological adverse effects because I would end up sinking tons of time unproductively into arguing?that, leaving less time for more important things like watching my travel routes for weather dangers.
One thing I will say is that the accumulated impacts of billions of humans upon the welfare of all humans can be surprising. Disease migration, species extinction and environmental poisoning (lead, pesticides) are examples. Yes, life has improved in many ways as we march on Olympus, but we are not always all that careful about the places we march through! Bunch of destructive army ants, we humans.
D
On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:26?PM Ed Lomas < relomas2@...> wrote: From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet airplanes.Ed On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez via <perezbem= [email protected]> wrote: Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y? ?
- Mirá las novedades: Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem #CustomsaduanaS #ForoATAsARG #DJONP #DJCP #TAD
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió:
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the
hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the
experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with
multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the
ocean again.
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be
wrong?!
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Agreed, Anabel. I am more the practical focus kind of student than the theoretical exploration kind. For my purposes, it suffices to study whether the weather patterns will have any significant impact on my activities or health. This drives me to keep an eye on the subject, but with more attention to questions like where should I spend the summer months, do I need to arrange for a reliable water supply or am I in a potential wildfire zone? One issue I specifically shy away from discussing?with?friends and family is whether humans are exacerbating a changing climate trend. Way bad dinner topic, like politics or religion!
I have seen and heard enough over the past few years to believe that the accumulation of social stressors is pushing society in a direction of increasing?unrest and decreasing crisis coping. While this is not so very shocking from a historical perspective (and the changes to the environment are certainly not geologically impressive), it is new to me and I feel it is prudent to take note and react as it may?get much worse.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 12:17?PM Anabel Perez via <perezbem= [email protected]> wrote: Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y? ?
- Mirá las novedades: Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem #CustomsaduanaS #ForoATAsARG #DJONP #DJCP #TAD
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió:
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the
hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the
experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with
multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the
ocean again.
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be
wrong?!
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
uniformitarianism
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Monday, February 19, 2024, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> wrote:
Ed,
Why do you keep posting information that's not relevant to current
climate change on our planet?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 12:07 PM, Ed Lomas wrote:
From
Wikipedia article on the Las Global Period (LGP):
The
LGP is part of a larger sequence of glacial and??periods known as the??which started
around 2,588,000 years ago and is ongoing.?The definition of the??as beginning 2.58
million years ago (Mya) is based on the formation of the?. The??began to form
earlier, at about 34 Mya, in the mid-?().
The term??is used to
include this early phase.?The previous ice age,
the?, which ended about
128,000 years ago, was more severe than the Last Glacial Period
in some areas such as Britain, but less severe in others.
During
this last glacial period, alternating episodes of glacier
advance, and retreat occurred. Within the last glacial period,
the??was between
26,000 and 20,000 years BP. While the general pattern of global
cooling and glacier advance was similar, local differences in
the development of glacier advance and retreat make comparing
the details from continent to continent difficult (see picture
of ice core data below for differences). Around 12,800 years
ago, the?, the most recent
glacial epoch, began, a coda to the preceding 100,000-year
glacial period. Its end about 11,550 years ago marked the
beginning of the?, the current??.
From
the point of view of human?, the LGP falls in the?and early??periods. When the??event started,??was confined
to lower latitudes and used tools comparable to those used by?in western and central??and by??and??in Asia.?
(Incidentally,
the ice cap on Mars waxes and wanes even faster than ours.)
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Celeste wrote:
Jim,
No, there's no ad hominem in what I wrote. I did not attack
you nor insult you. The vast majority of climatologists are
pretty sure about climate change. So I don't see any need to
be in denial about it. Is it that you just don't want to
change any of your behavior to save yourself and others?
On 2/19/2024 11:14 AM, jimntempe wrote:
Your last sentence is veiled ad
hominem.
We cannot possibly know with any certainty whether what's
happening now is caused by man.? What we do know is that the
temperature record has been "adjusted" to produce the
desired answer.? Using only the climate alarmist folks OWN
prior work the amount of "adjustment to get the desired
answer" can be seen.? They have raised prior cold
temperature data to create the narrative they push.? They
have lowered the medieval warm period data for the same
reason.? In many cases they simply cut off the data at
whatever past point works best to show a rising trend.
Celeste wrote:
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's
all been looked at and it has
nothing to do with fossil fuel
burning, which is what has
been happening for the last
100 or so years. The average
global temperature has already
risen and we have the
capability to prevent the
impending disasters that
continued temperature rise
would cause. Interesting to
see that you care so little
about your fellow humans.
|
|
|
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Ed,
Why do you keep posting information that's not relevant to current
climate change on our planet?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 12:07 PM, Ed Lomas wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From
Wikipedia article on the Las Global Period (LGP):
The
LGP is part of a larger sequence of glacial and??periods known as the??which started
around 2,588,000 years ago and is ongoing.?The definition of the??as beginning 2.58
million years ago (Mya) is based on the formation of the?. The??began to form
earlier, at about 34 Mya, in the mid-?().
The term??is used to
include this early phase.?The previous ice age,
the?, which ended about
128,000 years ago, was more severe than the Last Glacial Period
in some areas such as Britain, but less severe in others.
During
this last glacial period, alternating episodes of glacier
advance, and retreat occurred. Within the last glacial period,
the??was between
26,000 and 20,000 years BP. While the general pattern of global
cooling and glacier advance was similar, local differences in
the development of glacier advance and retreat make comparing
the details from continent to continent difficult (see picture
of ice core data below for differences). Around 12,800 years
ago, the?, the most recent
glacial epoch, began, a coda to the preceding 100,000-year
glacial period. Its end about 11,550 years ago marked the
beginning of the?, the current??.
From
the point of view of human?, the LGP falls in the?and early??periods. When the??event started,??was confined
to lower latitudes and used tools comparable to those used by?in western and central??and by??and??in Asia.?
(Incidentally,
the ice cap on Mars waxes and wanes even faster than ours.)
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Celeste wrote:
Jim,
No, there's no ad hominem in what I wrote. I did not attack
you nor insult you. The vast majority of climatologists are
pretty sure about climate change. So I don't see any need to
be in denial about it. Is it that you just don't want to
change any of your behavior to save yourself and others?
On 2/19/2024 11:14 AM, jimntempe wrote:
Your last sentence is veiled ad
hominem.
We cannot possibly know with any certainty whether what's
happening now is caused by man.? What we do know is that the
temperature record has been "adjusted" to produce the
desired answer.? Using only the climate alarmist folks OWN
prior work the amount of "adjustment to get the desired
answer" can be seen.? They have raised prior cold
temperature data to create the narrative they push.? They
have lowered the medieval warm period data for the same
reason.? In many cases they simply cut off the data at
whatever past point works best to show a rising trend.
Celeste wrote:
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's
all been looked at and it has
nothing to do with fossil fuel
burning, which is what has
been happening for the last
100 or so years. The average
global temperature has already
risen and we have the
capability to prevent the
impending disasters that
continued temperature rise
would cause. Interesting to
see that you care so little
about your fellow humans.
|
|
|
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Marvin,
It takes one comment to know another? Now that makes no sense at
all.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 1:39 PM, Marvin wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Takes on e to know one
Celeste wrote:
Jim,
Your comments are also pretty silly.
?
On 2/19/2024 10:57 AM, jimntempe
wrote:
Everything is a hallmark of climate change.? More snow.?
Less Snow.? More wind. Less wind.? More rain.? Less rain.
Higher highs. Lower lows.? More growth.? Less Growth.
Celeste wrote:
| .? |
| ?
Ed,
What exactly makes you think
they were wrong? Extremes are
the hallmark of climate change.
?
|
|
|
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Hey, people... this is the kind of thing that makes me just skip reading...
Please, cut it out.
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y? ?
- Mirá las novedades: Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem #CustomsaduanaS #ForoATAsARG #DJONP #DJCP #TAD
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 20:39:36 ART, mrvnchpmn <chapman@...> escribió:
?
Takes on e to know one
Jim,
Your comments are also pretty silly.
Aloha,
Celeste
?
On 2/19/2024 10:57 AM, jimntempe wrote:
Everything is a hallmark of climate change.? More snow.? Less Snow.? More wind. Less wind.? More rain.? Less rain. Higher highs. Lower lows.? More growth.? Less Growth.
Celeste wrote:
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Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
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Re: What happened to climate change?
?
Takes on e to know one
Jim,
Your comments are also pretty silly.
Aloha,
Celeste
?
On 2/19/2024 10:57 AM, jimntempe wrote:
Everything is a hallmark of climate change.? More snow.? Less Snow.? More wind. Less wind.? More rain.? Less rain. Higher highs. Lower lows.? More growth.? Less Growth.
Celeste wrote:
| .? |
| ?
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
?
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Re: What happened to climate change?
From Wikipedia article on the Las Global Period (LGP): The LGP is part of a larger sequence of glacial and??periods known as the??which started around 2,588,000 years ago and is ongoing.?The definition of the??as beginning 2.58 million years ago (Mya) is based on the formation of the?. The??began to form earlier, at about 34 Mya, in the mid-?(). The term??is used to include this early phase.?The previous ice age, the?, which ended about 128,000 years ago, was more severe than the Last Glacial Period in some areas such as Britain, but less severe in others. During this last glacial period, alternating episodes of glacier advance, and retreat occurred. Within the last glacial period, the??was between 26,000 and 20,000 years BP. While the general pattern of global cooling and glacier advance was similar, local differences in the development of glacier advance and retreat make comparing the details from continent to continent difficult (see picture of ice core data below for differences). Around 12,800 years ago, the?, the most recent glacial epoch, began, a coda to the preceding 100,000-year glacial period. Its end about 11,550 years ago marked the beginning of the?, the current??. From the point of view of human?, the LGP falls in the?and early??periods. When the??event started,??was confined to lower latitudes and used tools comparable to those used by?in western and central??and by??and??in Asia.?
(Incidentally, the ice cap on Mars waxes and wanes even faster than ours.) Ed
On Monday, February 19, 2024, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> wrote:
Jim,
No, there's no ad hominem in what I wrote. I did not attack you
nor insult you. The vast majority of climatologists are pretty
sure about climate change. So I don't see any need to be in denial
about it. Is it that you just don't want to change any of your
behavior to save yourself and others?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 11:14 AM, jimntempe wrote:
Your last sentence is veiled ad hominem.
We cannot possibly know with any certainty whether what's
happening now is caused by man.? What we do know is that the
temperature record has been "adjusted" to produce the desired
answer.? Using only the climate alarmist folks OWN prior work the
amount of "adjustment to get the desired answer" can be seen.?
They have raised prior cold temperature data to create the
narrative they push.? They have lowered the medieval warm period
data for the same reason.? In many cases they simply cut off the
data at whatever past point works best to show a rising trend.
Celeste wrote:
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's all been
looked at and it has nothing to do
with fossil fuel burning, which is
what has been happening for the last
100 or so years. The average global
temperature has already risen and we
have the capability to prevent the
impending disasters that continued
temperature rise would cause.
Interesting to see that you care so
little about your fellow humans.
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Re: What happened to climate change?
Jim,
No, there's no ad hominem in what I wrote. I did not attack you
nor insult you. The vast majority of climatologists are pretty
sure about climate change. So I don't see any need to be in denial
about it. Is it that you just don't want to change any of your
behavior to save yourself and others?
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 11:14 AM, jimntempe wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Your last sentence is veiled ad hominem.
We cannot possibly know with any certainty whether what's
happening now is caused by man.? What we do know is that the
temperature record has been "adjusted" to produce the desired
answer.? Using only the climate alarmist folks OWN prior work the
amount of "adjustment to get the desired answer" can be seen.?
They have raised prior cold temperature data to create the
narrative they push.? They have lowered the medieval warm period
data for the same reason.? In many cases they simply cut off the
data at whatever past point works best to show a rising trend.
Celeste wrote:
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's all been
looked at and it has nothing to do
with fossil fuel burning, which is
what has been happening for the last
100 or so years. The average global
temperature has already risen and we
have the capability to prevent the
impending disasters that continued
temperature rise would cause.
Interesting to see that you care so
little about your fellow humans.
|
|
|
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Your last sentence is veiled ad hominem. We cannot possibly know with any certainty whether what's happening now is caused by man.? What we do know is that the temperature record has been "adjusted" to produce the desired answer.? Using only the climate alarmist folks OWN prior work the amount of "adjustment to get the desired answer" can be seen.? They have raised prior cold temperature data to create the narrative they push.? They have lowered the medieval warm period data for the same reason.? In many cases they simply cut off the data at whatever past point works best to show a rising trend.
===========
Re: What happened to climate change?
From:?a1thighmaster
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:30:20 EST
?
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's all been looked at and it has nothing to do with fossil fuel burning, which is what has been happening for the last 100 or so years. The average global temperature has already risen and we have the capability to prevent the impending disasters that continued temperature rise would cause. Interesting to see that you care so little about your fellow humans.
Aloha,
Celeste
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|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Jim,
Your comments are also pretty silly.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 10:57 AM, jimntempe wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Everything is a hallmark of climate change.? More snow.? Less
Snow.? More wind. Less wind.? More rain.? Less rain. Higher highs.
Lower lows.? More growth.? Less Growth.
Celeste wrote:
| .? |
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were
wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of
climate change.
|
|
|
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Everything is a hallmark of climate change.? More snow.? Less Snow.? More wind. Less wind.? More rain.? Less rain. Higher highs. Lower lows.? More growth.? Less Growth. ===========
| .? |
Re: What happened to climate change?
From:?a1thighmaster
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:00:52 EST
?
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
|
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Re: What happened to climate change?
Ed,
ROTFLMAO!!! Why would someone else's irrelevant opinion be a
response from you? My guess is that you are simply unable to
support you stance.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 10:34 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
CS
Lewis, the author and Christian theologian, was, perhaps not
surprisingly, a great advocate of reading old books. This, he
argued, forcibly reminded you that every age had its
characteristic assumptions and errors. Past controversies showed
that “both sides were usually assuming without question a good
deal which we should now absolutely deny”, and were “all the
time secretly united ... by a great mass of common assumptions”.
Lewis’s
point was that we should try to remember the same thing would be
true of the present day, too: there would be assumptions so
widespread, so taken for granted, that they would go
unquestioned and unchallenged."
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Ed Lomas wrote:
From
900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by
the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were
several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm
spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple
hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is
excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and
jet airplanes.
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez wrote:
Ahh the britannica, it was one of the
"important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two
rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever
that have changed in the last 50 years (or less),
like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local
small clearly human driven changes, like
deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate
barren places in just a couple of years. Both are
easily seen by any individual that just takes a look
and verified by any number of scientific and
economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is
what causes the first macro changes: is it human
driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything
about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human
influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in
Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general
temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it
has been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's
still room for faith and cherrypicking the science
that will support one explanation or the other.
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
CS Lewis, the author and Christian theologian, was, perhaps not surprisingly, a great advocate of reading old books. This, he argued, forcibly reminded you that every age had its characteristic assumptions and errors. Past controversies showed that “both sides were usually assuming without question a good deal which we should now absolutely deny”, and were “all the time secretly united ... by a great mass of common assumptions”. Lewis’s point was that we should try to remember the same thing would be true of the present day, too: there would be assumptions so widespread, so taken for granted, that they would go unquestioned and unchallenged."
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Ed Lomas via <relomas2= [email protected]> wrote: From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet airplanes.Ed On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez via <perezbem= yahoo.com.ar@groups.io> wrote: Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y? ?
- Mirá las novedades: Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem #CustomsaduanaS #ForoATAsARG #DJONP #DJCP #TAD
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió:
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the
hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the
experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with
multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the
ocean again.
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be
wrong?!
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
Ed,
Blah blah blah blah. That's all been looked at and it has nothing
to do with fossil fuel burning, which is what has been happening
for the last 100 or so years. The average global temperature has
already risen and we have the capability to prevent the impending
disasters that continued temperature rise would cause. Interesting
to see that you care so little about your fellow humans.
Aloha,
Celeste
On 2/19/2024 9:26 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed
by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were
several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm
spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple
hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is
excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet
airplanes.
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez wrote:
Ahh the britannica, it was one of the
"important" purchases when I was young.
As to weather change, I follow two rules:
there are some macro patterns or whatever that have
changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding
icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly
human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage
of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple
of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that
just takes a look and verified by any number of
scientific and economical studies.
What seems to be the new discussion is
what causes the first macro changes: is it human
driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything
about it?
i guess it's hard to accept human
influence on a wordly scale.
When the ozone "hole" appeared in
Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
Are we really causing the general
temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has
been over the last 100 years or so)?
I believe we are, but I guess there's
still room for faith and cherrypicking the science
that will support one explanation or the other.
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART,
Celeste escribió:
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong?
Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
The "worst drought in recorded history"
?disappeared-despite the experts (soothsayers)
learned predictions.
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as
usual, with multi-million dollar homes built on
dirt cliffs sliding into the ocean again.
How could a consensus of climate experts
possibly be wrong?!
|
Re: What happened to climate change?
?
It was a lot more widespread than the recent one.
And the biggest problem is that we don't have consistent sites to measure - geography changes and so does observed temberature
?
Thx, I didn't know the term. Here's a somewhat short study about it in english:
But it states that the thermal difference with modern times was less than 2?C... and it seems this last century global warming is bigger than that.
?
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana
Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y?
?
- Mirá las novedades:
Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
?
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem
#CustomsaduanaS
#ForoATAsARG
#DJONP #DJCP #TAD
?
?
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 16:37:05 ART, mrvnchpmn <chapman@...> escribió:
?
?
?
During the Medieval Warm Period wine grapes were grown in England.? During the 1816 cold year the Thames froze.? So climate swings are not new.
Marvin
From 900 AD to 1800 AD, there was a Medieval Warm Period followed by the Little Ice Age.? Prior to recorded history, there were several ice ages.? I believe the earth is going through a warm spell, but not that it's all caused by an increase of a couple hundred parts per million too much carbon dioxide, and that is excess CO2 is in turn caused by wealthy people's motorcars and jet airplanes.
Ed
On Monday, February 19, 2024, Anabel Perez via <perezbem= [email protected]> wrote:
Ahh the britannica, it was one of the "important" purchases when I was young.
?
As to weather change, I follow two rules: there are some macro patterns or whatever that have changed in the last 50 years (or less), like receding icemarkers in Antartica, and the local small clearly human driven changes, like deforestation or overusage of soiles that generate barren places in just a couple of years. Both are easily seen by any individual that just takes a look and verified by any number of scientific and economical studies.
?
What seems to be the new discussion is what causes the first macro changes: is it human driven? or is a natural phase? Can we do anything about it?
?
i guess it's hard to accept human influence on a wordly scale.
?
When the ozone "hole" appeared in Antartica and later closed ?did we do any of that?
?
Are we really causing the general temperatures to rise (at least in Buenos Aires, it has been over the last 100 years or so)?
?
I believe we are, but I guess there's still room for faith and cherrypicking the science that will support one explanation or the other.
?
?
Slds
Anabel Pérez Bemporat
Despachante de Aduana
Lic. Comercio Internacional?
Capacitadora en Aduanas y Comercio Exterior Argentinos
? Foros actualizados !??y?
?
- Mirá las novedades:
Especial: Controles para IMPO con Valor Criterio
?
Detalles de Impos para Proyecciones 2022 y Com.A7532 y actualizaciones!
?C.O.D.,?TAD,?DJCP,?D J O N P?!
Descarga de Insumos en PreDespachos, LNA, Facturación Electrónica, SETI Autoarchivo, i-Sap...???Qué necesitás?
#ReportSystem
#CustomsaduanaS
#ForoATAsARG
#DJONP #DJCP #TAD
?
?
El lunes, 19 de febrero de 2024, 14:00:53 ART, a1thighmaster < thighmaster@...> escribió: ?
?
Ed,
What exactly makes you think they were wrong? Extremes are the hallmark of climate change.
Aloha,
Celeste
?
On 2/19/2024 2:15 AM, Ed Lomas wrote:
?
The "worst drought in recorded history" ?disappeared-despite the experts (soothsayers) learned predictions.
?
Now we're back to floods and mudslides, as usual, with multi-million dollar homes built on dirt cliffs sliding into the ocean again.
?
How could a consensus of climate experts possibly be wrong?!
?
?
?
?
|
