Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] PiS takeover of Gdansk war museum
Hello again, I'm mainly concerned that this is another crass attempt at patronage appointments Polish-style, the stench of patronage seems to hang heavily over Polish politics no matter who is running the place and the PiS regime seems to be no exception.
You can see this with the logging in Bia?owie?a Forest which is ostensibly to remove spruce trees infested with spruce beetles but then we read that half the trees to be removed are actually not spruce trees:- ho, ho, ho such a co-incidence (!) and I live in a country (Canada) with a big forest industry where loggers routinely pay off politicians for cutting permits in public forests so this clearly smells of political corruption to me.
Likewise the sacking of non-political professional managers at the Janow Podlaska stud farm in favor of unqualified political appointees who are expected to "learn on the job" is another red flag to me and I see the same thing happening here at the new museum.
The only people qualified to supervise this museum are either the veterans who actually made the history portrayed in there (and most of whom reside outside of Poland) or their children to whom they imparted that history with perhaps the chair being appointed by the Gda里sk city council since the museum was the mayor's idea in the first place.
What I see here so far is a crass attempt to replace professional historians with more unqualified political appointees who will also inflict another version of the doctrine of the "politics of memory" on this museum calculated again to write our parents out of Polish history:- 200 professional historians cannot all be wrong, it is so flattering to have so many non-Polish scholars take such an interest in modern Polish history, much of which actually occurred outside of Poland, and to actually remember our "lost Polish tribe" including Mr Norman Davies, what would we have done without him to publish his new book "Trail of Hope"?
However what will happen will happen, we seem to have little influence there, the Third Republic is not a continuation of the Second Republic, it is just the Communist Republic minus the Communism but it seems to be run by a hysterically paranoid fellow who cannot speak or read anything but Polish and who does not seem to know or care much about the outside world until he manages to crash Poland into it much as his late brother crashed an airliner a few years back:- the true spirit of the Second Republic actually resides out here with us who have never been touched by Communism!
That's just this old lady's 2 groszy worth!
On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 9:58 PM, "Witold Lukaszewski wjlukaszewski@... [Kresy-Siberia]" wrote:
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I don＊t intend to get into this debate; the question had been asked, I answered it. Each of us is capable of looking back into recent history and find out the extent to which my answer is correct or not.? PS. Grant policies have nothing to with the intent of the question.
Of course, Polish history must be made better known around the world - this is part of our mission as the Kresy-Siberia Foundation. However, the Gdansk WW2 Museum issue is a little more complex than some would have you believe. ?
The WW2 Museum's strategy was to put Polish WW2 experiences into the context of a comprehensive museum of World War 2, the only such one in the world. ?This was actually a clever way to sell the Polish story,?by attracting worldwide interest in this unique museum first, then telling the Polish story once there...
This is why the Museum's advisors included non-Polish historians people like Tim Snyder and Norman Davies 每 two of those who are now decrying the recent actions to make the museum focus only on the Polish aspects of the war.
NB the?unsubstantiated?statement by Professor WJ Lukaszewski that?"...people who controlled Polish government until last October tried to suppress popularizing the nation＊s history as strenuously as did the occupiers in the past" actually?transgresses our group values of avoiding to comment on current politics in the group. However, now that this claim was made, it would be unjust to ignore the fact that over the years 2008-2014 (when the Professor was a member of the Kresy-Siberia Foundation's Executive Committee), the Polish government granted about 1 million zloty's (US$250,000) towards the development of the online Kresy-Siberia Virtual Museum and the recording and presentation of ?its Survivor Testimony interviews and historical exhibitions. This is hardly the action of people trying to suppress popularizing the nation's history!
How much financial support the new government provides remain to be seen, but so far our main grant applications have been rejected.
Regards,
Stefan Wisniowski
Kresy-Siberia Foundation President ?
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
Now, now Pan Jan let's not go off the deep end here!
Mr Gross got his medal for efforts in opposing the Communist regime and no matter what he should keep it, he earned it fair and square.
And likewise I read his book about Jedwabne and what happened there is a historical fact although historians can
quibble about the exact details and numbers but really one murder is just as bad as a thousand.
Unfortunately, like many of us here, Mr Gross has reached an age when he finds himself becoming increasingly irrelevant to the world and becomes a "silly old fart" who starts emitting more gas than wisdom and that seems to be true about Mr Gross at this stage in his life:- the fact is that although Poles did assist in killing Jews so did Jews themselves and no more Poles killed Jews than did Jews (this should get a few replies!).
Anyway it's not necessary to prosecute the poor fellow for "insulting the Polish nation" and it does tend to make Poland look like a pathetic tin-pot dictatorship to the rest of the world:- it would be enough for the Senate to review the matter and take statements from everyone who wishes to hold forth on the matter and then if necessary to vote a motion of censure against Mr Gross and let it go at that.
Emitting more gas than wisdom seems to be primarily a habit of old men, we ladies always sit down when we pee which also lets the gas out before it starts to hurt us and affect our thinking (and it keeps the toilet seat clean!) so we manage to avoid saying too many stupid things:- cheers my darling, and keep smiling, it will help you live longer!
On Sunday, May 29, 2016 4:36 AM, "Jan Gan janus375@... [Kresy-Siberia]" wrote:
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The History Do we have another choice but to live the history to the historians?? Of course we do not. Who is able to sift through tons of documents, scores of books and devote years of work to one subject? None of us, for sure. Very few of us know more than one or two historical books on one subject, let alone know what is going on in the realm of historian publication in a country or the world. And this particular subject is also a field of historical study and debate, also in connection to politics. A have read two of them lately: "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary ?Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements (1998) by Prof. Kevin MacDonald ?. The other are his essays from The Occidental Quarterly (2003-2004) gathered in a book "Fenomen ?ydowski? Ze studi車w nad etniczn? aktywno?ci?." Both published in Poland.
For the Jews, not knowing how the world works is unthinkable. Before I have discovered that attitude in conversations with them in 1986 I did not know much about how the world works. I have discovered that lately, after reading above mentioned and scores of other books. Jews not only know how the world works, they make it work the way they want.
As we have left the history to the historians, the next question is to which ones? Should it be Jan Tomasz Gross, described by Stanislaw Michalkiewicz - - as "macabre fabulist". We know that he lies in his publications and as a source of those lies he quotes his own earlier statements. His statement in german newspaper Die Welt: "The Poles during the war killed more Jews than Germans" is now a subject of official polish investigation (1DS. 246/15 Prok. Rej. Katowice-P車?noc) for the crime of insulting polish nation.
- says: Jan Tomasz Gross (born 1947) is a Poland-born American historian and sociologist, which is also a lie. He is not a historian, he is a sociologist. This guy received Bachelor Cross of Merit from polish president Aleksander Kwa?niewski (SLD) in 1996. We will see if they dare to strip this honor from him
I gave you source, as I see here suspicion towards right wing. It is owned by the Krak車w-based Grupa Onet.pl S.A. It was founded in 1996 by Optimus company. According to Alexa rankings, as of December 2007, it is the 45th most popular website worldwide and the 3rd most popular site in Poland. Ringier Axel Springer Media AG holds the majority of Onet since 2012 (75%).
Why do Gross and others do that? It is a clear picture of historians performing political tasks for profits. Many polish historians, politicians, artists and celebrities take part in this also. Gross after his scandalic words in Germany took part in Warsaw Conference and repeated his stance. ? Poland in the world public opinion has to be degraded, ashamed, be guilty. It would be easier to trengthen?the compensation claims for jewish lost properties in Poland.?
Can we do anything about it? Bernie suggest opposition. I my opinion we can condemn such publications, but it is not our task. We have just to pickup the right books, and that requires some knowledge about honest historical craft. Read critical books, reviews. One of the best in my opinion is prof. Ewa Kruk, and her "Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945" is fantastic, though truthful about polish actions.
Jan
?
Bernie,?
Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.?
As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,? no matter what our personal opinions.Regards Stefan WisniowskiKresy-Siberia Foundation
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Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all
the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects
and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be
confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊.
But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of
identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it
beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of
advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism.
Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is
liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them,
since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By
＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way
of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish
to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both
militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is
inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every
nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
Hi there, Pan Jan!
Here is a funny story related to us long ago by a family friend of my mother, Pani Olga!
Once upon a time a poor fellow died and unfortunately was sent to Hell because of too many sins committed in this life.
However before assigning him to his eternal punishment the Devil took him on a tour of Hell.
They came to a big pit full of angry people who were trying to climb out of the pit but whenever one got to the top and tried to get out the others would pull him back in.
Then they came to another pit fully of not-quite-so-angry people also trying to climb out of their pit but when one got close to the top the others would push him up and when he got out he would help pull others out.
The new arrival asked the Devil:- "Why are the people in this pit so different from those in the other pit?"
The Devil answered:- "That first pit is full of Poles, they are always so jealous of each other that when one succeeds the others will try to tear him down and make him fail anyway and they are so easy to keep in Hell forever.
The second pit is full of Jews, they always help each other, and they keep escaping from this place, I can never keep them in here!"
Cheers!
On Sunday, May 29, 2016 4:36 AM, "Jan Gan janus375@... [Kresy-Siberia]" wrote:
?
The History Do we have another choice but to live the history to the historians?? Of course we do not. Who is able to sift through tons of documents, scores of books and devote years of work to one subject? None of us, for sure. Very few of us know more than one or two historical books on one subject, let alone know what is going on in the realm of historian publication in a country or the world. And this particular subject is also a field of historical study and debate, also in connection to politics. A have read two of them lately: "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary ?Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements (1998) by Prof. Kevin MacDonald ?. The other are his essays from The Occidental Quarterly (2003-2004) gathered in a book "Fenomen ?ydowski? Ze studi車w nad etniczn? aktywno?ci?." Both published in Poland.
For the Jews, not knowing how the world works is unthinkable. Before I have discovered that attitude in conversations with them in 1986 I did not know much about how the world works. I have discovered that lately, after reading above mentioned and scores of other books. Jews not only know how the world works, they make it work the way they want.
As we have left the history to the historians, the next question is to which ones? Should it be Jan Tomasz Gross, described by Stanislaw Michalkiewicz - - as "macabre fabulist". We know that he lies in his publications and as a source of those lies he quotes his own earlier statements. His statement in german newspaper Die Welt: "The Poles during the war killed more Jews than Germans" is now a subject of official polish investigation (1DS. 246/15 Prok. Rej. Katowice-P車?noc) for the crime of insulting polish nation.
- says: Jan Tomasz Gross (born 1947) is a Poland-born American historian and sociologist, which is also a lie. He is not a historian, he is a sociologist. This guy received Bachelor Cross of Merit from polish president Aleksander Kwa?niewski (SLD) in 1996. We will see if they dare to strip this honor from him
I gave you source, as I see here suspicion towards right wing. It is owned by the Krak車w-based Grupa Onet.pl S.A. It was founded in 1996 by Optimus company. According to Alexa rankings, as of December 2007, it is the 45th most popular website worldwide and the 3rd most popular site in Poland. Ringier Axel Springer Media AG holds the majority of Onet since 2012 (75%).
Why do Gross and others do that? It is a clear picture of historians performing political tasks for profits. Many polish historians, politicians, artists and celebrities take part in this also. Gross after his scandalic words in Germany took part in Warsaw Conference and repeated his stance. ? Poland in the world public opinion has to be degraded, ashamed, be guilty. It would be easier to trengthen?the compensation claims for jewish lost properties in Poland.?
Can we do anything about it? Bernie suggest opposition. I my opinion we can condemn such publications, but it is not our task. We have just to pickup the right books, and that requires some knowledge about honest historical craft. Read critical books, reviews. One of the best in my opinion is prof. Ewa Kruk, and her "Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945" is fantastic, though truthful about polish actions.
Jan
?
Bernie,?
Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.?
As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,? no matter what our personal opinions.Regards Stefan WisniowskiKresy-Siberia Foundation
?
Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all
the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects
and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be
confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊.
But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of
identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it
beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of
advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism.
Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is
liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them,
since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By
＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way
of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish
to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both
militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is
inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every
nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Pride and Glory to our Heroes!
Hi, thank you for posting this interesting story, it's good to know they actually remember us and I know they are trying to be nice to us but I found Pan Duda's speech a bit bombastic
but then I grew up totally surrounded by the survivors of Monte Cassino who tended to have a more subdued and sad recollection of the event
plus all the friends and colleagues they left behind in the cemeteries and naturally I tend to share their attitude for that reason
so this speech would seem a bit bombastic for us who grew up so close to this event.
Actually you don't really need to "imagine" the scenes described in Pan Duda's speech, just look at the pictures in the "family album" of the Polish Second Corps, "Trail of Hope", for graphic illustrations but then again I, like other "children of this regiment",
have the benefit of all the remembered narrations of our fathers (and for some, their mothers)? about these pictures:- I just wish this book had been published 50 years ago!
It's also good to know that Pani Anders was also there,
how nice of her, a general's daughter, to occasionally remember the front-line troops, the children of whom we are!
Perhaps also, in the midst of using this event to do a bit of political posturing in Poland's dealings with the EU leadership Pan Duda, Pani Anders, and of course Pan Kaczynski and Pani Szyd?o et al might also remember that the Polish soldiers of Monte Cassino are survived by a lot of adult children who really would like some help to trace our missing kinfolk left behind in the USSR in 1942 and elsewhere and to re-establish our Polish citizenship without having to spend a "bundle" doing it, and it would also be so helpful if they could educate the mainland Polish public about us and discourage visiting Polish bumpkins from denying that we are actually Polish but only merely foreigners of distant Polish ancestry, which can be so very obnoxious to someone who has so many soldiers of the Second Republic in her ancestry.
Cheers on this balmy and lazy Sunday afternoon in Toronto, Canada!
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 11:36 PM, "wegierka150@... [Kresy-Siberia]" wrote:
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| | | | | | ? Published: May 21, 2016 ? ※We are indebted to you for battling with your blood the sacred right to decide about the security order of Europe and the entire... | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | |
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
That is the problem that you did not read MacDonalds book, but only reviews. It is not a base to draw any conclusions, especially to accuse the author to be anti-Jewish. I have read his books and did not find any ani-Jewish views.? As a matter of fact he presents only what the Jews do, historical facts and published articles and documents. He also presents very positive views about Jews. Please, prove your point, quote something from the book, give the page number, so everybody can check it. Otherwise it is just as others here said before, blanket baseless accusation.
On the other hand, it may be that for you extremely ani-Jewish thing is to have different point of view on some subjects than Jews. If that is the case, please do not try to silence anybody here.? I do not care about what views the author has. I have my own views, which I have built for years. What I care about is if this author is truthful, and his book is based on facts, and those facts are well documented. I only mention that kind of books in my posts. Jan Tomasz Gross books had also very good reviews, but in opinion of other historians his books are distorted and baseless in many parts.
We share common history for more than a 1000 years, it was very complex, enter-twined, tangled during second world war, we have victims, killers, tormentors, heroes, traitors, soldiers on both sides, Jewish and Polish.? A lot of polish soldiers from PSZ were tormented by Jews under communist regime after they came back to Poland in 1945-1947. Some ended in prison. That subject also belongs to this group. It is not an accusation, there is no place for accusation here. We just need to ?know the facts. As prof. Ewa Kruk quoted: "the most painful of atrocities are those done by members of my nation." She was thinking about Poles.
You say: " I thought that the kresy-siberia group would deal with the history of what happened to the Polish people, ALL Polish people during WW2."
That is exactly what I am doing here. You can not understand that history without understanding the Jews, their beliefs, religion, ways of life, tradition. I know a lot about them, worked with them many years. Have pretty close relations with some. Yet, Ewa Kruk describes things I never heard of. Mesmerizing. Chaim, please relax, read the books, not the reviews. We both know that Jews love the books. Probably you know also, that you can just buy anything, even review the way you want it.
Jan
On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Chaim Meiersdorf chaim01@... [Kresy-Siberia] <Kresy-Siberia@...> wrote:
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I looked at MacDonald＊s website and at some of the reviews of his books on Amazon. My father was a Polish Jew who went through world war 2. I thought that the kresy-siberia group would deal with the history of what happened to the Polish people, ALL Polish people during WW2. Bringing in MacDonald and his extreme anti-Jewish views does not do a service to this group. Please stay away from this type of literature since it does not do anyone any good. Thank you Chaim Meiersdorf ? ? ? Do we have another choice but to live the history to the historians?? Of course we do not. Who is able to sift through tons of documents, scores of books and devote years of work to one subject? None of us, for sure. Very few of us know more than one or two historical books on one subject, let alone know what is going on in the realm of historian publication in a country or the world. And this particular subject is also a field of historical study and debate, also in connection to politics. A have read two of them lately: "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary ?Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements (1998) by Prof. Kevin MacDonald ?. The other are his essays from The Occidental Quarterly (2003-2004) gathered in a book "Fenomen ?ydowski? Ze studi車w nad etniczn? aktywno?ci?." Both published in Poland. For the Jews, not knowing how the world works is unthinkable. Before I have discovered that attitude in conversations with them in 1986 I did not know much about how the world works. I have discovered that lately, after reading above mentioned and scores of other books. Jews not only know how the world works, they make it work the way they want. As we have left the history to the historians, the next question is to which ones? Should it be Jan Tomasz Gross, described by Stanislaw Michalkiewicz - - as "macabre fabulist". We know that he lies in his publications and as a source of those lies he quotes his own earlier statements. His statement in german newspaper Die Welt: "The Poles during the war killed more Jews than Germans" is now a subject of official polish investigation (1DS. 246/15 Prok. Rej. Katowice-P車?noc) for the crime of insulting polish nation. - says: Jan Tomasz Gross (born 1947) is a Poland-born American historian and sociologist, which is also a lie. He is not a historian, he is a sociologist. This guy received Bachelor Cross of Merit from polish president Aleksander Kwa?niewski (SLD) in 1996. We will see if they dare to strip this honor from him I gave you source, as I see here suspicion towards right wing. It is owned by the Krak車w-based Grupa Onet.pl S.A. It was founded in 1996 by Optimus company. According to Alexa rankings, as of December 2007, it is the 45th most popular website worldwide and the 3rd most popular site in Poland. Ringier Axel Springer Media AG holds the majority of Onet since 2012 (75%). Why do Gross and others do that? It is a clear picture of historians performing political tasks for profits. Many polish historians, politicians, artists and celebrities take part in this also. Gross after his scandalic words in Germany took part in Warsaw Conference and repeated his stance. ? Poland in the world public opinion has to be degraded, ashamed, be guilty. It would be easier to trengthen?the compensation claims for jewish lost properties in Poland.? Can we do anything about it? Bernie suggest opposition. I my opinion we can condemn such publications, but it is not our task. We have just to pickup the right books, and that requires some knowledge about honest historical craft. Read critical books, reviews. One of the best in my opinion is prof. Ewa Kruk, and her "Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945" is fantastic, though truthful about polish actions. ? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Stefan Wisniowski stefan.wisniowski@... [Kresy-Siberia] <Kresy-Siberia@...> wrote: ? Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.? As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,?no matter what our personal opinions. ? Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊. But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
?
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Dear Norbert
It a very small world. Your business partner Wojciech "John" Majewski is a member of our group and has joined us for one or two of our lunches hosted by Basia Zielinska!
As I recall he spent a lot of time in Mexico or South America prior to Australia.?
What do you wish to discover about his mother's deportation?
Regards
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 May 2016, at 17:32, 'Lenarda Szymczak' szymczak01@... [Kresy-Siberia] < Kresy-Siberia@...> wrote:
?
Norbert, jeste? jak najbardziej mile widziane, m車j polski nie jest dobre, wi?c u?ywam Google Translate, ale mie? pewno??, ?e Kresy-Siberia Group specjalizuje si? w pomaganiu ludziom znale?? ich historii, rodzin?, robi wszystko, co mo?liwe, aby pom車c. To dlatego, Grupa rozpocz??a i istnieje.
Nie wiem, syna Ewy Krygowski, bo Sydney jest bardzo du?e miasto, ale jestem zaskoczony, ?e szukasz Majewski historii, bo ja dopiero niedawno odkryto, ?e moja babcia by?a Balbina Anna Majewska po?lubi?a W?adys?awa Jarkiewicz, ?yj?cy w Grodzisc Mazowiecki, Warszawa.
Nie mog? osobi?cie pom車c, bo moja matka pochodzi z Zhitomirski Kaliningradzkim., Jest to dzi?, Ukraina i matka zosta?a przewieziona do Niemiec jako niewolniczej pracy w 1942 roku, gdzie pozna?a mojego ojca, sta?a ?onaty, zanim wyemigrowa? do Australii.
Jestem pewien, innych cz?onk車w, polski m車wi?c, ch?tnie pomagaj?, kt車rzy osobi?cie byli w drodze albo mia? krewnych przeby? drog? swojej rodziny.
Lenarda, Sydney Australia ? FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT READ OR WRITE POLISH (MUCH) LIKE ME, HERE IS THE ENGLISH VERSION. ? Norbert, ? you are most welcome, my Polish is not good, so I am using Google Translate, but rest assured that Kresy-Siberia Group specializes in assisting people find their history, their family, doing everything that is possible to help you.? This is why, the Group was started and exists. ? I do not know of son of Eve Krygowski,? because Sydney is a very big City, but I am surprised that you are looking for Majewski History, because, I just recently, discovered that my Grandmother was Balbina Anna Majewska married to Wladyslaw Jarkiewicz, living in Grodzisc Mazowiecki, Warsaw. ? I cannot personally, assist you,? because my mother comes from Zhitomirski Oblast., this is today, Ukraine and mother was taken to Germany as slave labour in 1942, where she met my father, she became married, before? she immigrated to Australia. ? I am certain other members, Polish speaking, will be happy to assist, who have personally been on the journey or had relatives travel the road of your family. ? Lenarda, Sydney Australia ? ? ? ? ? Witam serdecznie,
i dzi?kuj? za przyj?cie do grupy.
Dla pani Lenardy z Sydney szczeg車lny
uk?on. Tam bowiem ?yje syn Ewy Krygowskiej, kt車ra prze?y?a
trudy zsy?ki do Semipa?aty里ska, Johna (Wojtek) po ojczymie Majewski.
Mo?e pani ju? si? na niego w Australii natkn??a, bo swego czasu
by? wsp車?za?o?ycielem firmy Nahrex, ?
Mam cich? nadziej?, ?e w grupie znajd? si? osoby mog?ce
mi nieco pom車c w rozwik?aniu historii zsy?ki w Sowietach, rodziny Wojtka
Majewskiego.
Pozdrawiam
Norbert Kroemeke
Am 28.05.2016 um 12:41 schrieb 'Lenarda Szymczak'
szymczak01@... [Kresy-Siberia]:
>
>
> Witamy, Norberta do Grupy
>
> Lenarda, z Sydney Australii
>
>
>
> *From:*Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 28 May 2016 4:35 PM
> *To:* Kresy-Siberia Group
> *Subject:* [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
>
>
>
>
>
> Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta Kromeke, z
> Hamburga w Niemczech.
>
>
>
> Norbert pisze: "Od lat prowadz? stron? genealogiczn? rodziny
> Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie cz?onkowie
> naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w, przeszli gehenn? zsy?ki.W
> pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali
> deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011 roku kontakt w tej sprawie z
> pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku gdy chcia?em go odnowi? okaza?o
> si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest aktualny. St?d ma droga w kierunku grupy
> dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e uda si? odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag?
> szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku tego tropu, znalezionego pod tym
> adresem:
> :
>
>
>
> Maria Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug ) was
> born in 27 Feb 1902 in Nowosielica.
>
>
>
> Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz
> z dzie?mi na Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku
> 12 lat na skutek choroby. Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si?
> wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e. Piel?gniarka w
> Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet WAAF - 2792060, och./LACW,
> piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O Marii, jej dzieciach Ewie i
> Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii Mally - mieszkankach obozu w
> Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra Zi車?kowska-Boehm w ksi??ce "The
> Polish Experience through World War II: A Better Day Has Not Come".
>
>
>
> Maria married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of Kazimierz
> KRYGOWSKI and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz was born in
> 4 Aug 1891 in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo.
>
>
>
> Kazimierz Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891 we Lwowie,
> zm. 15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we Lwowie Gimnazjum V,
> a w roku 1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim uniwersytecie, gdzie
> z?o?y? 3 obowi?zuj?ce egzaminy prawnicze. Od roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I
> wojnie ?wiatowej. W armii austriackiej osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika
> artylerii, bra? udzia? w wojnie przeciwko Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W
> roku 1919 zosta? mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku
> polskim do grudnia roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w
> ormia里sko-katolickiej katedrze we Lwowie po?lubi? Mari? Roman? ze
> ?niatynia, c車rk? Leona Teodorowicza i Marii z d. Cie里skich (urodzon?
> 27.02.1902), krewn? arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr
> J車zefa Teodorowicz (jej ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po
> ?lubie wst?pi? na praktyk? do notariusza Zawadzkiego we Lwowie.
>
>
>
> W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu, kt車r? uko里czy?
> w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y? wtedy egzamin s?dziowski w S?dzie
> Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu, miesi?c po egzaminie wyst?pi? z S?du i z
> pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy? kancelari? adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po
> nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta? notariuszem, od kwietnia roku
> 1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w tych latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem
> Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej Ligii Obrony Powietrznej Pa里stwa w
> Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji Rewizyjnej w tym Oddziale (?r車d?o:
> Ksi?ga Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od 08.10.1923 do 29.03.1925).Po rozdziale
> adwokatury od notariatu od 1 stycznia 1934 roku pracowa? ju? tylko jako
> notariusz a? do roku 1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul. Ko?ciuszki 17.W
> dniu 24 sierpnia roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan artylerii
> Wojsk Polskich i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a.
> Dowodzi? artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim molo w
> porcie rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y kanonierk?
> polsk? Gen. Haller i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na
> ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika za?oga Helu podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta?
> wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer jeniecki 每 394 i 395). Przebywa? w
> kilku obozach: Oflag X B Nienburg, Oflag XVIII C Spittal i Oflag II C
> Woldenberg (obecnie Dobiegniew w woj. Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里
> 每 Szczecin) a? do ko里ca stycznia roku 1945, czyli wyzwolenia obozu w
> Woldenbergu przez Armi? Czerwon?.
>
>
>
> W lutym tego? roku wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich
> ?rodk車w materialnych koniecznych do otwarcia biura notarialnego,zasta?
> swoje mieszkanie ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i zaj?te przez
> obce rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939
> wywieziona wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry
> umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby.Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj?
> wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na
> sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c odpowiedniej pory do
> otwarcia biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy jako notariusz w
> Kartuzach, gdzie wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu 6.12.1945 r.
> przywr車cono mu posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy ul. Zakopia里skiej 21
> ?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W dniu 31.07.1946 zosta? powo?any do pe?nienia
> obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Okr?gowego w Gdyni i oddelegowany do pe?nienia
> obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu
> 12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du
> Grodzkiego i notariusza w Wejherowie.W dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra
> przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w Anglii, wnios?a pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem,
> z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej roz??ki stron, spowodowanej ostatni?
> wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie prawo
> do zachowania nazwiska ?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta? mianowany
> notariuszem w Wejherowie, mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304, p車?niej
> przy ul. Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik
> Pa里stwowego Biura Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na emerytur?
> dnia 31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym cz?owiekiem.
>
>
>
> They had the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born in
> ok.1921. He died in 1943 in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was born in
> ok.1923. She died in 5 Dec 2005.Maria married Polish officer HIPOLIT
> KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953 in Newton A. Hipolit was born in 1893. He
> died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K."
>
>
>
> Pozdrawiam,
>
>
>
> *Stefan Wi?niowski*
>
> Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
>
>
|
Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Ja mam strony otwarte dla publiczno?ci na i - poza ?yj?cymi. Ta druga wzorowana na . To podej?cie u?atwia nawi?zanie kontaktu z wyszukuj?cymi w google. Google indeksuje pojedy里cze strony. Dane ?yj?cych s? blokowane dla u?ytkownik車w bez uprawnie里. Przed hakerami nic nas nie uchroni, co wida? po w?amaniach do pot??nych rz?dowych i komercyjnych sieci. Dla nich to by?oby nieop?acalne. Rz?dy i tak bez skrupu?車w kopiuj? wszystkie transmisje danych. Tak jak Google, portale socjalne i microsoft. Wyci?gaj? informacje nawet ze zdj?? u?ytkownik車w. Zastanawia?em si? sk?d nagle ta reklama, a potem skojarzy?em, umie?ci?em fotk? z tego miejsca na google+. Orwellowski ?wiat.
?
Witam,
mamy w obecnej chwili dwie strony, ta jest przeznaczona przede wszystkim
dla szerszego grona zainteresowanych. Jest na serwerze w Polsce.
Poza tym na mym serwerze w Niemczech mam stron? zabezpieczon? przed
dost?pem bo ma charakter wy??cznie genealogiczny, i zawiera zbyt wiele
prywatnych danych.
Ja r車wnie? mam cich? nadziej?, ?e kto? kiedy? mi pode?le jakie? informacje.
Pozdrawiam
Norbert Kroemeke
Am 29.05.2016 um 10:53 schrieb Jan Gan janus375@... [Kresy-Siberia]:
>
>
> Witaj w grupie Norbert,
>
> Bardzo cz?sto przez przypadek zdarza si? znale?? koneksje. ?ycz? by ci
> si? uda?o.
> Czy to jest twoja strona ?
>
> Pozdrawiam
> Jan Gan
>
>
>
> 2016-05-28 8:34 GMT+02:00 'Stefan WISNIOWSKI'
> stefan.wisniowski@...
> stefan.wisniowski@...> [Kresy-Siberia]
> <Kresy-Siberia@... Kresy-Siberia@...>>:
>
> __
>
>
> Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta
> Kromeke, z Hamburga w Niemczech.
>
> Norbert pisze: "Od lat prowadz? stron? genealogiczn? rodziny
> Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie
> cz?onkowie naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w, przeszli
> gehenn? zsy?ki.W pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o
> Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011
> roku kontakt w tej sprawie z pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku
> gdy chcia?em go odnowi? okaza?o si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest
> aktualny. St?d ma droga w kierunku grupy dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e
> uda si?odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag? szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku
> tego tropu, znalezionego pod tym adresem:
> :
> __ __
> Maria Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug ) was
> born in 27 Feb 1902 in Nowosielica.____
> __ __
> Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz
> z dzie?mi na Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w
> wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby. Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj?
> wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e.
> Piel?gniarka w Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet WAAF -
> 2792060, och./LACW, piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O Marii,
> jej dzieciach Ewie i Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii Mally -
> mieszkankach obozu w Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra
> Zi車?kowska-Boehm w ksi??ce "The Polish Experience through World War
> II: A Better Day Has Not Come".____
> __ __
> Maria married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of Kazimierz
> KRYGOWSKI and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz was
> born in 4 Aug 1891 in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo.____
> __ __
> Kazimierz Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891
> we Lwowie, zm. 15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we
> Lwowie Gimnazjum V, a w roku 1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim
> uniwersytecie, gdzie z?o?y? 3 obowi?zuj?ce egzaminy prawnicze. Od
> roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I wojnie ?wiatowej. W armii
> austriackiej osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika artylerii, bra? udzia? w
> wojnie przeciwko Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W roku 1919 zosta?
> mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku polskim do
> grudnia roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w ormia里sko-katolickiej
> katedrze we Lwowie po?lubi? Mari? Roman? ze ?niatynia, c車rk? Leona
> Teodorowicza i Marii z d. Cie里skich (urodzon? 27.02.1902), krewn?
> arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr J車zefa Teodorowicz (jej
> ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po ?lubie wst?pi? na
> praktyk? do notariusza Zawadzkiego we Lwowie.
>
> W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu,
> kt車r? uko里czy? w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y? wtedy egzamin
> s?dziowski w S?dzie Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu, miesi?c po egzaminie
> wyst?pi? z S?du i z pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy? kancelari?
> adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta?
> notariuszem, od kwietnia roku 1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w
> tych latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej
> Ligii Obrony Powietrznej Pa里stwa w Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji
> Rewizyjnej w tym Oddziale (?r車d?o: Ksi?ga Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od
> 08.10.1923 do 29.03.1925).Po rozdziale adwokatury od notariatu od 1
> stycznia 1934 roku pracowa? ju? tylko jako notariusz a? do roku
> 1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul. Ko?ciuszki 17.W dniu 24 sierpnia
> roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan artylerii Wojsk Polskich
> i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a. Dowodzi?
> artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim molo w
> porcie rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y
> kanonierk? polsk? Gen. Haller i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty
> przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika za?oga Helu
> podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta? wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer
> jeniecki 每 394 i 395). Przebywa? w kilku obozach: Oflag X B
> Nienburg, Oflag XVIII C Spittal i Oflag II C Woldenberg (obecnie
> Dobiegniew w woj. Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里 每 Szczecin) a?
> do ko里ca stycznia roku 1945, czyli wyzwolenia obozu w Woldenbergu
> przez Armi? Czerwon?.
>
> W lutym tego? roku wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich
> ?rodk車w materialnych koniecznych do otwarcia biura
> notarialnego,zasta? swoje mieszkanie ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i
> zaj?te przez obce rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji
> sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a tam
> syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby.Z Armi?
> Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii,
> gdzie zosta?a na sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c
> odpowiedniej pory do otwarcia biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy
> jako notariusz w Kartuzach, gdzie wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu
> 6.12.1945 r. przywr車cono mu posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy ul.
> Zakopia里skiej 21 ?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W dniu 31.07.1946 zosta?
> powo?any do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Okr?gowego w Gdyni i
> oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i
> notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu 12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do
> pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w
> Wejherowie.W dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w
> Anglii, wnios?a pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem, z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej
> roz??ki stron, spowodowanej ostatni? wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono
> rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie prawo do zachowania nazwiska
> ?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta? mianowany notariuszem w
> Wejherowie, mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304, p車?niej przy ul.
> Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik
> Pa里stwowego Biura Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na
> emerytur? dnia 31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym cz?owiekiem.____
> __ __
> They had the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born
> in ok.1921. He died in 1943 in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was
> born in ok.1923. She died in 5 Dec 2005.Maria married Polish
> officer HIPOLIT KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953 in Newton A. Hipolit
> was born in 1893. He died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K."____
>
> Pozdrawiam,
>
> Stefan Wi?niowski
> Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
>
>
>
|
Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
I looked at MacDonald＊s website and at some of the reviews of his books on Amazon. My father was a Polish Jew who went through world war 2. I thought that the kresy-siberia group would deal with the history of what happened to the Polish people, ALL Polish people during WW2. Bringing in MacDonald and his extreme anti-Jewish views does not do a service to this group. Please stay away from this type of literature since it does not do anyone any good. Thank you Chaim Meiersdorf ?
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From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 11:36 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749? ? Do we have another choice but to live the history to the historians?? Of course we do not. Who is able to sift through tons of documents, scores of books and devote years of work to one subject? None of us, for sure. Very few of us know more than one or two historical books on one subject, let alone know what is going on in the realm of historian publication in a country or the world. And this particular subject is also a field of historical study and debate, also in connection to politics. A have read two of them lately: "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary ?Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements (1998) by Prof. Kevin MacDonald ?. The other are his essays from The Occidental Quarterly (2003-2004) gathered in a book "Fenomen ?ydowski? Ze studi車w nad etniczn? aktywno?ci?." Both published in Poland. For the Jews, not knowing how the world works is unthinkable. Before I have discovered that attitude in conversations with them in 1986 I did not know much about how the world works. I have discovered that lately, after reading above mentioned and scores of other books. Jews not only know how the world works, they make it work the way they want. As we have left the history to the historians, the next question is to which ones? Should it be Jan Tomasz Gross, described by Stanislaw Michalkiewicz - - as "macabre fabulist". We know that he lies in his publications and as a source of those lies he quotes his own earlier statements. His statement in german newspaper Die Welt: "The Poles during the war killed more Jews than Germans" is now a subject of official polish investigation (1DS. 246/15 Prok. Rej. Katowice-P車?noc) for the crime of insulting polish nation. - says: Jan Tomasz Gross (born 1947) is a Poland-born American historian and sociologist, which is also a lie. He is not a historian, he is a sociologist. This guy received Bachelor Cross of Merit from polish president Aleksander Kwa?niewski (SLD) in 1996. We will see if they dare to strip this honor from him I gave you source, as I see here suspicion towards right wing. It is owned by the Krak車w-based Grupa Onet.pl S.A. It was founded in 1996 by Optimus company. According to Alexa rankings, as of December 2007, it is the 45th most popular website worldwide and the 3rd most popular site in Poland. Ringier Axel Springer Media AG holds the majority of Onet since 2012 (75%). Why do Gross and others do that? It is a clear picture of historians performing political tasks for profits. Many polish historians, politicians, artists and celebrities take part in this also. Gross after his scandalic words in Germany took part in Warsaw Conference and repeated his stance. ? Poland in the world public opinion has to be degraded, ashamed, be guilty. It would be easier to trengthen?the compensation claims for jewish lost properties in Poland.? Can we do anything about it? Bernie suggest opposition. I my opinion we can condemn such publications, but it is not our task. We have just to pickup the right books, and that requires some knowledge about honest historical craft. Read critical books, reviews. One of the best in my opinion is prof. Ewa Kruk, and her "Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945" is fantastic, though truthful about polish actions. ? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Stefan Wisniowski stefan.wisniowski@... [Kresy-Siberia] <Kresy-Siberia@...> wrote: ? Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.? As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,?no matter what our personal opinions. ? Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊. But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
?
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Witam,
mamy w obecnej chwili dwie strony, ta jest przeznaczona przede wszystkim
dla szerszego grona zainteresowanych. Jest na serwerze w Polsce.
Poza tym na mym serwerze w Niemczech mam stron? zabezpieczon? przed dost?pem bo ma charakter wy??cznie genealogiczny, i zawiera zbyt wiele
prywatnych danych.
www.krygowski.de
Ja r車wnie? mam cich? nadziej?, ?e kto? kiedy? mi pode?le jakie? informacje.
Pozdrawiam
Norbert Kroemeke
Am 29.05.2016 um 10:53 schrieb Jan Gan janus375@... [Kresy-Siberia]:
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Witaj w grupie Norbert,
Bardzo cz?sto przez przypadek zdarza si? znale?? koneksje. ?ycz? by ci
si? uda?o.
Czy to jest twoja strona ?
Pozdrawiam
Jan Gan
2016-05-28 8:34 GMT+02:00 'Stefan WISNIOWSKI'
stefan.wisniowski@...
<mailto:stefan.wisniowski@...> [Kresy-Siberia]
<Kresy-Siberia@... <mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...>>:
__
Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta
Kromeke, z Hamburga w Niemczech.
Norbert pisze: "Od lat prowadz? stron? genealogiczn? rodziny
Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie
cz?onkowie naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w, przeszli
gehenn? zsy?ki.W pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o
Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011
roku kontakt w tej sprawie z pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku
gdy chcia?em go odnowi? okaza?o si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest
aktualny. St?d ma droga w kierunku grupy dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e
uda si?odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag? szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku
tego tropu, znalezionego pod tym adresem:
:
__ __
Maria Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug ) was
born in 27 Feb 1902 in Nowosielica.____
__ __
Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz
z dzie?mi na Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w
wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby. Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj?
wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e.
Piel?gniarka w Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet WAAF -
2792060, och./LACW, piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O Marii,
jej dzieciach Ewie i Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii Mally -
mieszkankach obozu w Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra
Zi車?kowska-Boehm w ksi??ce "The Polish Experience through World War
II: A Better Day Has Not Come".____
__ __
Maria married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of Kazimierz
KRYGOWSKI and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz was
born in 4 Aug 1891 in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo.____
__ __
Kazimierz Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891
we Lwowie, zm. 15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we
Lwowie Gimnazjum V, a w roku 1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim
uniwersytecie, gdzie z?o?y? 3 obowi?zuj?ce egzaminy prawnicze. Od
roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I wojnie ?wiatowej. W armii
austriackiej osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika artylerii, bra? udzia? w
wojnie przeciwko Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W roku 1919 zosta?
mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku polskim do
grudnia roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w ormia里sko-katolickiej
katedrze we Lwowie po?lubi? Mari? Roman? ze ?niatynia, c車rk? Leona
Teodorowicza i Marii z d. Cie里skich (urodzon? 27.02.1902), krewn?
arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr J車zefa Teodorowicz (jej
ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po ?lubie wst?pi? na
praktyk? do notariusza Zawadzkiego we Lwowie.
W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu,
kt車r? uko里czy? w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y? wtedy egzamin
s?dziowski w S?dzie Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu, miesi?c po egzaminie
wyst?pi? z S?du i z pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy? kancelari?
adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta?
notariuszem, od kwietnia roku 1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w
tych latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej
Ligii Obrony Powietrznej Pa里stwa w Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji
Rewizyjnej w tym Oddziale (?r車d?o: Ksi?ga Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od
08.10.1923 do 29.03.1925).Po rozdziale adwokatury od notariatu od 1
stycznia 1934 roku pracowa? ju? tylko jako notariusz a? do roku
1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul. Ko?ciuszki 17.W dniu 24 sierpnia
roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan artylerii Wojsk Polskich
i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a. Dowodzi?
artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim molo w
porcie rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y
kanonierk? polsk? Gen. Haller i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty
przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika za?oga Helu
podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta? wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer
jeniecki 每 394 i 395). Przebywa? w kilku obozach: Oflag X B
Nienburg, Oflag XVIII C Spittal i Oflag II C Woldenberg (obecnie
Dobiegniew w woj. Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里 每 Szczecin) a?
do ko里ca stycznia roku 1945, czyli wyzwolenia obozu w Woldenbergu
przez Armi? Czerwon?.
W lutym tego? roku wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich
?rodk車w materialnych koniecznych do otwarcia biura
notarialnego,zasta? swoje mieszkanie ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i
zaj?te przez obce rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji
sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a tam
syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby.Z Armi?
Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii,
gdzie zosta?a na sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c
odpowiedniej pory do otwarcia biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy
jako notariusz w Kartuzach, gdzie wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu
6.12.1945 r. przywr車cono mu posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy ul.
Zakopia里skiej 21 ?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W dniu 31.07.1946 zosta?
powo?any do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Okr?gowego w Gdyni i
oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i
notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu 12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do
pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w
Wejherowie.W dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w
Anglii, wnios?a pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem, z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej
roz??ki stron, spowodowanej ostatni? wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono
rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie prawo do zachowania nazwiska
?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta? mianowany notariuszem w
Wejherowie, mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304, p車?niej przy ul.
Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik
Pa里stwowego Biura Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na
emerytur? dnia 31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym cz?owiekiem.____
__ __
They had the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born
in ok.1921. He died in 1943 in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was
born in ok.1923. She died in 5 Dec 2005.Maria married Polish
officer HIPOLIT KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953 in Newton A. Hipolit
was born in 1893. He died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K."____
Pozdrawiam,
Stefan Wi?niowski
Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Witaj w grupie Norbert,
Bardzo cz?sto przez przypadek zdarza si? znale?? koneksje. ?ycz? by ci si? uda?o. Czy to jest twoja strona? ??
Pozdrawiam
?
Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta Kromeke, z Hamburga w Niemczech.
Norbert pisze: "Od lat
prowadz? stron??genealogiczn? rodziny Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji
pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie cz?onkowie naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w,
przeszli gehenn? zsy?ki.W pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o
Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011 roku
kontakt w tej sprawie z pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku gdy chcia?em go
odnowi?? okaza?o si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest aktualny. St?d ma droga w
kierunku grupy dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e uda si? odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag?
szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku tego tropu,?znalezionego pod tym adresem: ?:?
?
Maria
Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug )?was born in 27 Feb
1902 in Nowosielica.
?
Maria
zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz z?dzie?mi na
Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek?choroby.
Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do?Anglii,
gdzie zosta?a na sta?e. Piel?gniarka w Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet
WAAF - 2792060,? och./LACW, piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O
Marii, jej dzieciach Ewie i Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii?Mally -
mieszkankach obozu w Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra Zi車?kowska-Boehm w
ksi??ce "The Polish Experience?through World War II: A Better Day Has
Not Come".
?
Maria
married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of?Kazimierz KRYGOWSKI
and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz?was born in 4 Aug 1891
in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo.
?
Kazimierz
Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891 we?Lwowie, zm.
15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we Lwowie Gimnazjum V, a w roku
1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim uniwersytecie, gdzie z?o?y? 3
obowi?zuj?ce?egzaminy prawnicze. Od roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I wojnie
?wiatowej. W armii austriackiej?osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika artylerii,
bra? udzia? w wojnie przeciwko?Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W roku 1919
zosta? mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku polskim do grudnia
roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w ormia里sko-katolickiej katedrze we Lwowie?po?lubi?
Mari? Roman? ze ?niatynia, c車rk? Leona Teodorowicza i Marii z?d. Cie里skich
(urodzon? 27.02.1902), krewn? arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr J車zefa?Teodorowicz
(jej ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po ?lubie wst?pi? na praktyk?
do notariusza Zawadzkiego we?Lwowie.
W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na
aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu, kt車r??uko里czy? w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y?
wtedy egzamin s?dziowski w S?dzie Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu,?miesi?c po
egzaminie wyst?pi? z S?du i z pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy??kancelari?
adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta?
notariuszem, od?kwietnia roku 1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w tych
latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej Ligii Obrony
Powietrznej Pa里stwa w Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji Rewizyjnej w tym
Oddziale (?r車d?o: Ksi?ga?Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od 08.10.1923 do
29.03.1925).Po rozdziale adwokatury od notariatu od 1 stycznia 1934 roku?pracowa?
ju? tylko jako notariusz a? do roku 1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul.
Ko?ciuszki 17.W dniu 24 sierpnia roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan?artylerii
Wojsk Polskich i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a. Dowodzi?
artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim?molo w porcie
rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y kanonierk? polsk? Gen.?Haller
i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika
za?oga Helu podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta? wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer
jeniecki 每?394 i 395). Przebywa? w kilku obozach: Oflag X B Nienburg, Oflag
XVIII C?Spittal i Oflag II C Woldenberg (obecnie Dobiegniew w woj.
Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里 每 Szczecin) a? do ko里ca stycznia roku?1945,
czyli wyzwolenia obozu w Woldenbergu przez Armi? Czerwon?.
W lutym tego? roku
wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich ?rodk車w materialnych
koniecznych do?otwarcia biura notarialnego,zasta? swoje mieszkanie
ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i zaj?te przez obce?rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w
trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona?wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a
tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek?choroby.Z Armi?
Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do?Anglii, gdzie
zosta?a na sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c odpowiedniej pory do
otwarcia?biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy jako notariusz w Kartuzach,
gdzie?wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu 6.12.1945 r. przywr車cono mu
posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy?ul. Zakopia里skiej 21 ?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W
dniu 31.07.1946 zosta? powo?any do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego?S?du
Okr?gowego w Gdyni i oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego?S?du
Grodzkiego i notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu 12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do
pe?nienia obowi?zk車w?s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w Wejherowie.W
dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w Anglii,?wnios?a
pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem, z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej roz??ki?stron,
spowodowanej ostatni? wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie
prawo do?zachowania nazwiska ?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta?
mianowany notariuszem w Wejherowie,?mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304,
p車?niej przy ul. Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik
Pa里stwowego Biura?Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na emerytur? dnia
31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym?cz?owiekiem.
?
They had
the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born in ok.1921. He died
in 1943?in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was born in ok.1923. She died in
5 Dec ?2005.Maria married Polish officer
HIPOLIT KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953?in Newton A. Hipolit was born in
1893. He died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K."
Pozdrawiam,
Stefan Wi?niowski Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
The History Do we have another choice but to live the history to the historians?? Of course we do not. Who is able to sift through tons of documents, scores of books and devote years of work to one subject? None of us, for sure. Very few of us know more than one or two historical books on one subject, let alone know what is going on in the realm of historian publication in a country or the world. And this particular subject is also a field of historical study and debate, also in connection to politics. A have read two of them lately: "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary ?Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements (1998) by Prof. Kevin MacDonald ?. The other are his essays from The Occidental Quarterly (2003-2004) gathered in a book "Fenomen ?ydowski? Ze studi車w nad etniczn? aktywno?ci?." Both published in Poland.
For the Jews, not knowing how the world works is unthinkable. Before I have discovered that attitude in conversations with them in 1986 I did not know much about how the world works. I have discovered that lately, after reading above mentioned and scores of other books. Jews not only know how the world works, they make it work the way they want.
As we have left the history to the historians, the next question is to which ones? Should it be Jan Tomasz Gross, described by Stanislaw Michalkiewicz - - as "macabre fabulist". We know that he lies in his publications and as a source of those lies he quotes his own earlier statements. His statement in german newspaper Die Welt: "The Poles during the war killed more Jews than Germans" is now a subject of official polish investigation (1DS. 246/15 Prok. Rej. Katowice-P車?noc) for the crime of insulting polish nation.
- says: Jan Tomasz Gross (born 1947) is a Poland-born American historian and sociologist, which is also a lie. He is not a historian, he is a sociologist. This guy received Bachelor Cross of Merit from polish president Aleksander Kwa?niewski (SLD) in 1996. We will see if they dare to strip this honor from him
I gave you source, as I see here suspicion towards right wing. It is owned by the Krak車w-based Grupa Onet.pl S.A. It was founded in 1996 by Optimus company. According to Alexa rankings, as of December 2007, it is the 45th most popular website worldwide and the 3rd most popular site in Poland. Ringier Axel Springer Media AG holds the majority of Onet since 2012 (75%).
Why do Gross and others do that? It is a clear picture of historians performing political tasks for profits. Many polish historians, politicians, artists and celebrities take part in this also. Gross after his scandalic words in Germany took part in Warsaw Conference and repeated his stance. ? Poland in the world public opinion has to be degraded, ashamed, be guilty. It would be easier to trengthen?the compensation claims for jewish lost properties in Poland.?
Can we do anything about it? Bernie suggest opposition. I my opinion we can condemn such publications, but it is not our task. We have just to pickup the right books, and that requires some knowledge about honest historical craft. Read critical books, reviews. One of the best in my opinion is prof. Ewa Kruk, and her "Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945" is fantastic, though truthful about polish actions.
Jan
?
Bernie,?
Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.?
As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,? no matter what our personal opinions.Regards Stefan WisniowskiKresy-Siberia Foundation
?
Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all
the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects
and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be
confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊.
But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of
identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it
beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of
advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism.
Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is
liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them,
since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By
＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way
of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish
to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both
militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is
inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every
nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
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Search: Krygowska Stefania
FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT READ OR WRITE POLISH, HERE IS THE ENGLISH VERSION (short google translation).
I warmly welcome,
I am looking information: Stefania Krygowska born 13.8.1868.
List of emigrants who sailed on 30/05/1948, on board the "RMS
ARUNDEL CASTLE "to Southampton:
Item 460: Krygowska Stefania, 79 years.
http://www.polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/passengerlist/shipsindex.htm
I found the data in the collection of genealogical Association of House
Krygowskich:
Wedding took place in Lwow 15.06.1895 in the church of St. Anthony.
Husband: Henry Tadeusz Stanislaw Krygowski born 9.3.1860 and 18.2.1915 died in Lwow at the age of only 55 years. Doctor.
Wife:??? Stefania Philippina Maciulska born. 13.08.1868, Joseph Maciulski father, mother Stefania Czacka.
What do you still do not know is the history of the deportation Stefani
KRYGOWSKI and its further fate after arriving in England in 1948.
If they released some new data to lighten her fate in this
time, I would be very grateful for your help.
Best wishes
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Poszukuj? ?lad車w: Krygowska Stefania
Witam serdecznie,
w trakcie wymiany list車w z pani? Anet? Hoffmann, kt車ra pr車bowa?a nam w 2011 roku poszukiwaniach pom車c, wyp?yn??a historia ze Stefani? Krygowsk? ur. 13.8.1868, gdzie obie strony nie wiedzia?y czy ta osoba by?a z rodzin? Wojtka Majewskiego (syn Ewy Krygowskiej zes?anej do Semipa?aty里ska ) zwi?zana.
I dopiero teraz po wielu latach ciszy, natkn??em si? w wykazie listy emigrant車w, kt車rzy przyp?yn?li w 30.05.1948 roku na pok?adzie "RMS ARUNDEL CASTLE" do Southampton, ?lad Stefani Krygowskiej.
Pod pozycj? 460 : KRYGOWSKA Stefania w wieku 79 lat.
Wtedy sprawdzi?em w zbiorach genealogicznych naszego Stowarzyszenia Rodu Krygowskich, ?e owszem mamy takow? wymienian? jako
?on? lekarza lwowskiego Tadeusza Stanis?awa Henryka Krygowskiego ur. 03.09.1860 i zm. 18.02.1915 we Lwowie w wieku zaledwie 55 lat.
Ich ?lub mia? miejsce 15.06.1895 we Lwowie w ko?ciele ?w. Antoniego, on mieszka? wtedy przy ul. Trzeciego Maja 2, a przysz?a ?ona Stefania Philippina Maciulska ur. oko?o 1868 , zamieszka?a przy ul. Grottgera 2, rodzice jej to J車zef Maciulski i Stefania Czacka.
Czego jednak nadal nie wiemy, to historia samej deportacji Stefani Krygowskiej i jej dalszych los車w po przybyciu do Anglii w 1948 roku.
Gdyby ukaza?y si? jakie? nowe dane pozwalaj?ce rozja?ni? jej losy w tym czasie, by?bym bardzo wdzi?czny za pomoc.
Pozdrawiam serdecznie
Witold Norbert Kroemeke
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Norbert, jeste? jak najbardziej mile widziane, m車j polski nie jest dobre, wi?c u?ywam Google Translate, ale mie? pewno??, ?e Kresy-Siberia Group specjalizuje si? w pomaganiu ludziom znale?? ich historii, rodzin?, robi wszystko, co mo?liwe, aby pom車c. To dlatego, Grupa rozpocz??a i istnieje.
Nie wiem, syna Ewy Krygowski, bo Sydney jest bardzo du?e miasto, ale jestem zaskoczony, ?e szukasz Majewski historii, bo ja dopiero niedawno odkryto, ?e moja babcia by?a Balbina Anna Majewska po?lubi?a W?adys?awa Jarkiewicz, ?yj?cy w Grodzisc Mazowiecki, Warszawa.
Nie mog? osobi?cie pom車c, bo moja matka pochodzi z Zhitomirski Kaliningradzkim., Jest to dzi?, Ukraina i matka zosta?a przewieziona do Niemiec jako niewolniczej pracy w 1942 roku, gdzie pozna?a mojego ojca, sta?a ?onaty, zanim wyemigrowa? do Australii.
Jestem pewien, innych cz?onk車w, polski m車wi?c, ch?tnie pomagaj?, kt車rzy osobi?cie byli w drodze albo mia? krewnych przeby? drog? swojej rodziny.
Lenarda, Sydney Australia ? FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT READ OR WRITE POLISH (MUCH) LIKE ME, HERE IS THE ENGLISH VERSION. ? Norbert, ? you are most welcome, my Polish is not good, so I am using Google Translate, but rest assured that Kresy-Siberia Group specializes in assisting people find their history, their family, doing everything that is possible to help you.? This is why, the Group was started and exists. ? I do not know of son of Eve Krygowski,? because Sydney is a very big City, but I am surprised that you are looking for Majewski History, because, I just recently, discovered that my Grandmother was Balbina Anna Majewska married to Wladyslaw Jarkiewicz, living in Grodzisc Mazowiecki, Warsaw. ? I cannot personally, assist you,? because my mother comes from Zhitomirski Oblast., this is today, Ukraine and mother was taken to Germany as slave labour in 1942, where she met my father, she became married, before? she immigrated to Australia. ? I am certain other members, Polish speaking, will be happy to assist, who have personally been on the journey or had relatives travel the road of your family. ? Lenarda, Sydney Australia ? ? ?
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From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2016 8:58 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert? ? Witam serdecznie,
i dzi?kuj? za przyj?cie do grupy.
Dla pani Lenardy z Sydney szczeg車lny
uk?on. Tam bowiem ?yje syn Ewy Krygowskiej, kt車ra prze?y?a
trudy zsy?ki do Semipa?aty里ska, Johna (Wojtek) po ojczymie Majewski.
Mo?e pani ju? si? na niego w Australii natkn??a, bo swego czasu
by? wsp車?za?o?ycielem firmy Nahrex, ?
Mam cich? nadziej?, ?e w grupie znajd? si? osoby mog?ce
mi nieco pom車c w rozwik?aniu historii zsy?ki w Sowietach, rodziny Wojtka
Majewskiego.
Pozdrawiam
Norbert Kroemeke
Am 28.05.2016 um 12:41 schrieb 'Lenarda Szymczak'
szymczak01@... [Kresy-Siberia]:
>
>
> Witamy, Norberta do Grupy
>
> Lenarda, z Sydney Australii
>
>
>
> *From:*Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
> *Sent:* Saturday, 28 May 2016 4:35 PM
> *To:* Kresy-Siberia Group
> *Subject:* [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
>
>
>
>
>
> Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta Kromeke, z
> Hamburga w Niemczech.
>
>
>
> Norbert pisze: "Od lat prowadz? stron? genealogiczn? rodziny
> Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie cz?onkowie
> naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w, przeszli gehenn? zsy?ki.W
> pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali
> deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011 roku kontakt w tej sprawie z
> pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku gdy chcia?em go odnowi? okaza?o
> si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest aktualny. St?d ma droga w kierunku grupy
> dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e uda si? odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag?
> szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku tego tropu, znalezionego pod tym
> adresem:
> :
>
>
>
> Maria Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug ) was
> born in 27 Feb 1902 in Nowosielica.
>
>
>
> Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz
> z dzie?mi na Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku
> 12 lat na skutek choroby. Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si?
> wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e. Piel?gniarka w
> Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet WAAF - 2792060, och./LACW,
> piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O Marii, jej dzieciach Ewie i
> Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii Mally - mieszkankach obozu w
> Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra Zi車?kowska-Boehm w ksi??ce "The
> Polish Experience through World War II: A Better Day Has Not Come".
>
>
>
> Maria married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of Kazimierz
> KRYGOWSKI and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz was born in
> 4 Aug 1891 in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo.
>
>
>
> Kazimierz Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891 we Lwowie,
> zm. 15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we Lwowie Gimnazjum V,
> a w roku 1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim uniwersytecie, gdzie
> z?o?y? 3 obowi?zuj?ce egzaminy prawnicze. Od roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I
> wojnie ?wiatowej. W armii austriackiej osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika
> artylerii, bra? udzia? w wojnie przeciwko Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W
> roku 1919 zosta? mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku
> polskim do grudnia roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w
> ormia里sko-katolickiej katedrze we Lwowie po?lubi? Mari? Roman? ze
> ?niatynia, c車rk? Leona Teodorowicza i Marii z d. Cie里skich (urodzon?
> 27.02.1902), krewn? arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr
> J車zefa Teodorowicz (jej ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po
> ?lubie wst?pi? na praktyk? do notariusza Zawadzkiego we Lwowie.
>
>
>
> W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu, kt車r? uko里czy?
> w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y? wtedy egzamin s?dziowski w S?dzie
> Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu, miesi?c po egzaminie wyst?pi? z S?du i z
> pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy? kancelari? adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po
> nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta? notariuszem, od kwietnia roku
> 1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w tych latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem
> Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej Ligii Obrony Powietrznej Pa里stwa w
> Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji Rewizyjnej w tym Oddziale (?r車d?o:
> Ksi?ga Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od 08.10.1923 do 29.03.1925).Po rozdziale
> adwokatury od notariatu od 1 stycznia 1934 roku pracowa? ju? tylko jako
> notariusz a? do roku 1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul. Ko?ciuszki 17.W
> dniu 24 sierpnia roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan artylerii
> Wojsk Polskich i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a.
> Dowodzi? artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim molo w
> porcie rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y kanonierk?
> polsk? Gen. Haller i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na
> ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika za?oga Helu podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta?
> wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer jeniecki 每 394 i 395). Przebywa? w
> kilku obozach: Oflag X B Nienburg, Oflag XVIII C Spittal i Oflag II C
> Woldenberg (obecnie Dobiegniew w woj. Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里
> 每 Szczecin) a? do ko里ca stycznia roku 1945, czyli wyzwolenia obozu w
> Woldenbergu przez Armi? Czerwon?.
>
>
>
> W lutym tego? roku wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich
> ?rodk車w materialnych koniecznych do otwarcia biura notarialnego,zasta?
> swoje mieszkanie ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i zaj?te przez
> obce rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939
> wywieziona wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry
> umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby.Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj?
> wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na
> sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c odpowiedniej pory do
> otwarcia biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy jako notariusz w
> Kartuzach, gdzie wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu 6.12.1945 r.
> przywr車cono mu posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy ul. Zakopia里skiej 21
> ?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W dniu 31.07.1946 zosta? powo?any do pe?nienia
> obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Okr?gowego w Gdyni i oddelegowany do pe?nienia
> obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu
> 12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du
> Grodzkiego i notariusza w Wejherowie.W dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra
> przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w Anglii, wnios?a pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem,
> z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej roz??ki stron, spowodowanej ostatni?
> wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie prawo
> do zachowania nazwiska ?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta? mianowany
> notariuszem w Wejherowie, mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304, p車?niej
> przy ul. Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik
> Pa里stwowego Biura Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na emerytur?
> dnia 31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym cz?owiekiem.
>
>
>
> They had the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born in
> ok.1921. He died in 1943 in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was born in
> ok.1923. She died in 5 Dec 2005.Maria married Polish officer HIPOLIT
> KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953 in Newton A. Hipolit was born in 1893. He
> died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K."
>
>
>
> Pozdrawiam,
>
>
>
> *Stefan Wi?niowski*
>
> Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
>
>
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] amnesia
Tim, this sounds like Australia, back in the 1950 每 1970 and after this a trickle of Poles started coming out from England, remnants of Market Garden and Africa, but they never spoke and no one listened or knew about the Kresy. ?I heard the Fairy Tales of War and hardship, but could not relate, until I joined Kresy-Siberia in 2010. Lenarda, Sydney, Australia ?
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From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016 5:26 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] amnesia? ? re:Dan Fords comment about Amnesia, I recently spoke to a British MP of Polish ancestry, he had never heard of The Kresy Tim Bucknall
Congleton, UK
Executive Committee Member &
Social Media Co-ordinator #KresySiberia
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re:Dan Fords comment about Amnesia,
I recently spoke to a British MP of Polish ancestry, he had never heard of The Kresy
?
?
?
?
?
Tim Bucknall
Congleton, UK
Executive Committee Member &
Social Media Co-ordinator #KresySiberia
?
?
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
Bernie,?
Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.?
As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,? no matter what our personal opinions.Regards Stefan WisniowskiKresy-Siberia Foundation
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all
the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects
and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be
confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊.
But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of
identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it
beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of
advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism.
Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is
liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them,
since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By
＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way
of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish
to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both
militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is
inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every
nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Digest Number 6749
Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ＆nationalism＊ I mean first of all
the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects
and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be
confidently labelled ＆good＊ or ＆bad＊.
But secondly 〞 and this is much more important 〞 I mean the habit of
identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it
beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of
advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism.
Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is
liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them,
since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By
＆patriotism＊ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way
of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish
to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both
militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is
inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every
nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Witam serdecznie,
i dzi?kuj? za przyj?cie do grupy.
Dla pani Lenardy z Sydney szczeg車lny
uk?on. Tam bowiem ?yje syn Ewy Krygowskiej, kt車ra prze?y?a
trudy zsy?ki do Semipa?aty里ska, Johna (Wojtek) po ojczymie Majewski.
Mo?e pani ju? si? na niego w Australii natkn??a, bo swego czasu
by? wsp車?za?o?ycielem firmy Nahrex, ?
Mam cich? nadziej?, ?e w grupie znajd? si? osoby mog?ce
mi nieco pom車c w rozwik?aniu historii zsy?ki w Sowietach, rodziny Wojtka Majewskiego.
Pozdrawiam
Norbert Kroemeke
Am 28.05.2016 um 12:41 schrieb 'Lenarda Szymczak' szymczak01@... [Kresy-Siberia]:
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Show quoted text
Witamy, Norberta do Grupy
Lenarda, z Sydney Australii
*From:*Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
*Sent:* Saturday, 28 May 2016 4:35 PM
*To:* Kresy-Siberia Group
*Subject:* [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta Kromeke, z
Hamburga w Niemczech.
Norbert pisze: "Od lat prowadz? stron? genealogiczn? rodziny
Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie cz?onkowie
naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w, przeszli gehenn? zsy?ki.W
pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali
deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011 roku kontakt w tej sprawie z
pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku gdy chcia?em go odnowi? okaza?o
si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest aktualny. St?d ma droga w kierunku grupy
dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e uda si? odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag?
szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku tego tropu, znalezionego pod tym
adresem:
:
Maria Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug ) was
born in 27 Feb 1902 in Nowosielica.
Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz
z dzie?mi na Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku
12 lat na skutek choroby. Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si?
wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e. Piel?gniarka w
Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet WAAF - 2792060, och./LACW,
piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O Marii, jej dzieciach Ewie i
Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii Mally - mieszkankach obozu w
Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra Zi車?kowska-Boehm w ksi??ce "The
Polish Experience through World War II: A Better Day Has Not Come".
Maria married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of Kazimierz
KRYGOWSKI and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz was born in
4 Aug 1891 in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo.
Kazimierz Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891 we Lwowie,
zm. 15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we Lwowie Gimnazjum V,
a w roku 1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim uniwersytecie, gdzie
z?o?y? 3 obowi?zuj?ce egzaminy prawnicze. Od roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I
wojnie ?wiatowej. W armii austriackiej osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika
artylerii, bra? udzia? w wojnie przeciwko Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W
roku 1919 zosta? mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku
polskim do grudnia roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w
ormia里sko-katolickiej katedrze we Lwowie po?lubi? Mari? Roman? ze
?niatynia, c車rk? Leona Teodorowicza i Marii z d. Cie里skich (urodzon?
27.02.1902), krewn? arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr
J車zefa Teodorowicz (jej ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po
?lubie wst?pi? na praktyk? do notariusza Zawadzkiego we Lwowie.
W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu, kt車r? uko里czy?
w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y? wtedy egzamin s?dziowski w S?dzie
Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu, miesi?c po egzaminie wyst?pi? z S?du i z
pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy? kancelari? adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po
nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta? notariuszem, od kwietnia roku
1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w tych latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem
Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej Ligii Obrony Powietrznej Pa里stwa w
Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji Rewizyjnej w tym Oddziale (?r車d?o:
Ksi?ga Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od 08.10.1923 do 29.03.1925).Po rozdziale
adwokatury od notariatu od 1 stycznia 1934 roku pracowa? ju? tylko jako
notariusz a? do roku 1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul. Ko?ciuszki 17.W
dniu 24 sierpnia roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan artylerii
Wojsk Polskich i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a.
Dowodzi? artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim molo w
porcie rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y kanonierk?
polsk? Gen. Haller i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na
ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika za?oga Helu podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta?
wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer jeniecki 每 394 i 395). Przebywa? w
kilku obozach: Oflag X B Nienburg, Oflag XVIII C Spittal i Oflag II C
Woldenberg (obecnie Dobiegniew w woj. Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里
每 Szczecin) a? do ko里ca stycznia roku 1945, czyli wyzwolenia obozu w
Woldenbergu przez Armi? Czerwon?.
W lutym tego? roku wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich
?rodk車w materialnych koniecznych do otwarcia biura notarialnego,zasta?
swoje mieszkanie ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i zaj?te przez
obce rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939
wywieziona wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry
umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek choroby.Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj?
wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na
sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c odpowiedniej pory do
otwarcia biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy jako notariusz w
Kartuzach, gdzie wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu 6.12.1945 r.
przywr車cono mu posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy ul. Zakopia里skiej 21
?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W dniu 31.07.1946 zosta? powo?any do pe?nienia
obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Okr?gowego w Gdyni i oddelegowany do pe?nienia
obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu
12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego S?du
Grodzkiego i notariusza w Wejherowie.W dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra
przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w Anglii, wnios?a pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem,
z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej roz??ki stron, spowodowanej ostatni?
wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie prawo
do zachowania nazwiska ?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta? mianowany
notariuszem w Wejherowie, mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304, p車?niej
przy ul. Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik
Pa里stwowego Biura Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na emerytur?
dnia 31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym cz?owiekiem.
They had the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born in
ok.1921. He died in 1943 in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was born in
ok.1923. She died in 5 Dec 2005.Maria married Polish officer HIPOLIT
KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953 in Newton A. Hipolit was born in 1893. He
died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K."
Pozdrawiam,
*Stefan Wi?niowski*
Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
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Re: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert
Witamy, Norberta do Grupy Lenarda, z Sydney Australii ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...]
Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2016 4:35 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia Group
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (Yahoo)] Nowy cz?onek: Kroemke, Norbert? ? Prosze przywita? nowego cz?onka grupy Kresy-Syberia: Norberta Kromeke, z Hamburga w Niemczech. Norbert pisze: "Od lat prowadz? stron??genealogiczn? rodziny Krygowskich. Przy tej okazji pojawi?y si?w?tki wojenne, gdzie cz?onkowie naszej rodziny dostawszy si? pod Sowiet車w, przeszli gehenn? zsy?ki.W pierwszej kolejno?ci szukam tu informacji o Krygowskich kt車rzy zostali deportowani z okolic Lwowa. Mia?em w 2011 roku kontakt w tej sprawie z pani? Anet? Hoffmann, ale w tym roku gdy chcia?em go odnowi?? okaza?o si?, ?e jej adres ju? nie jest aktualny. St?d ma droga w kierunku grupy dyskusyjnej, gdzie by? mo?e uda si? odszuka? dalsze ?lady. Prag? szczeg車lnie poszuka? w kierunku tego tropu,?znalezionego pod tym adresem: ?:? Maria Romana TEODOROWICZ 1 (Leon , Walerian , Grzegorz , Manug )?was born in 27 Feb 1902 in Nowosielica. Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona wraz z?dzie?mi na Syberi?. Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek?choroby. Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do?Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e. Piel?gniarka w Pomocniczej Lotniczej S?u?bie Kobiet WAAF - 2792060,? och./LACW, piel?gniarka, Faldingworth, 28.02.1902O Marii, jej dzieciach Ewie i Zbyszku oraz siostrze Marii - Zofii?Mally - mieszkankach obozu w Semipalaty里sku wspomina Aleksandra Zi車?kowska-Boehm w ksi??ce "The Polish Experience?through World War II: A Better Day Has Not Come". Maria married 1 Kazimierz Micha? Maria KRYGOWSKI 2, son of?Kazimierz KRYGOWSKI and Maria DYMET, in 11 Jan 1921 in Lw車w. Kazimierz?was born in 4 Aug 1891 in Lw車w. He died in 15 Apr 1979 in Wejherowo. Kazimierz Micha? Maria - junior. Urodzi? si? dnia 4.08.1891 we?Lwowie, zm. 15.04.1979 w Wejherowie. W roku 1909 uko里czy? we Lwowie Gimnazjum V, a w roku 1913 uko里czy? wydzia? prawa na lwowskim uniwersytecie, gdzie z?o?y? 3 obowi?zuj?ce?egzaminy prawnicze. Od roku 1914 bra? udzia? w I wojnie ?wiatowej. W armii austriackiej?osi?gn?? stopie里 porucznika artylerii, bra? udzia? w wojnie przeciwko?Ukrai里com i w obronie Lwowa. W roku 1919 zosta? mianowany kapitanem wojsk polskich. S?u?y? w wojsku polskim do grudnia roku 1920. W dniu 11.01.1921 roku w ormia里sko-katolickiej katedrze we Lwowie?po?lubi? Mari? Roman? ze ?niatynia, c車rk? Leona Teodorowicza i Marii z?d. Cie里skich (urodzon? 27.02.1902), krewn? arcybiskupa obrz?dku ormia里skiego - ks. dr J車zefa?Teodorowicz (jej ojciec by? jego bratem stryjecznym). Zaraz po ?lubie wst?pi? na praktyk? do notariusza Zawadzkiego we?Lwowie. W lutym roku 1922 wst?pi? na aplikacj? s?dow? w Toruniu, kt車r??uko里czy? w listopadzie roku 1924. Z?o?y? wtedy egzamin s?dziowski w S?dzie Apelacyjnym w Poznaniu,?miesi?c po egzaminie wyst?pi? z S?du i z pocz?tkiem roku 1925 otworzy??kancelari? adwokack? w Kartuzach. Po nominacji w marcu tego samego roku zosta? notariuszem, od?kwietnia roku 1925 zacz?? praktyk? notarialn?.By? w tych latach cz?onkiem za?o?ycielem Oddzia?u Powiatowego Pomorskiej Ligii Obrony Powietrznej Pa里stwa w Kartuzach oraz cz?onkiem Komisji Rewizyjnej w tym Oddziale (?r車d?o: Ksi?ga?Pami?tkowa P.L.O.P.P. od 08.10.1923 do 29.03.1925).Po rozdziale adwokatury od notariatu od 1 stycznia 1934 roku?pracowa? ju? tylko jako notariusz a? do roku 1939.W Kartuzach mieszka? przy ul. Ko?ciuszki 17.W dniu 24 sierpnia roku 1939 zosta? zmobilizowany jako kapitan?artylerii Wojsk Polskich i przydzielony do Marynarki Wojennej do obrony Wybrze?a. Dowodzi? artyleri? nadbrze?n? na Helu. By?a to bateria na helskim?molo w porcie rybackim.Ju? 3 wrze?nia samoloty niemieckie zatopi?y kanonierk? polsk? Gen.?Haller i zdemolowa?y 2 armaty przeciwdesantowe 75 mm na ko里cu mola.Dnia 2 pa?dziernika za?oga Helu podda?a si?.Kazimierz zosta? wzi?ty do niemieckiej niewoli (numer jeniecki 每?394 i 395). Przebywa? w kilku obozach: Oflag X B Nienburg, Oflag XVIII C?Spittal i Oflag II C Woldenberg (obecnie Dobiegniew w woj. Lubuskimna trasie kolejowej Pozna里 每 Szczecin) a? do ko里ca stycznia roku?1945, czyli wyzwolenia obozu w Woldenbergu przez Armi? Czerwon?. W lutym tego? roku wr車ci? do Kartuz.Po wojnie, pozbawiony wszelkich ?rodk車w materialnych koniecznych do?otwarcia biura notarialnego,zasta? swoje mieszkanie ogo?ocone przez Niemc車w i zaj?te przez obce?rodziny.?ona Maria zosta?a w trakcie aneksji sowieckiej w 1939 wywieziona?wraz z dzie?mi na Syberi?.Straci?a tam syna Zbigniewa, kt車ry umar? w wieku 12 lat na skutek?choroby.Z Armi? Andersena poprzez Persj? wydosta?a si? wraz z c車rk? Ew? do?Anglii, gdzie zosta?a na sta?e.Kazimierz przebywa? na wsi oczekuj?c odpowiedniej pory do otwarcia?biura.Dnia 12.09.1945 wr車ci? do pracy jako notariusz w Kartuzach, gdzie?wtedy mieszka? przy Rynku 3.W dniu 6.12.1945 r. przywr車cono mu posiad?o?? nieruchomo?ci przy?ul. Zakopia里skiej 21 ?Chylonia§ w Gdyni.W dniu 31.07.1946 zosta? powo?any do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego?S?du Okr?gowego w Gdyni i oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w s?dziego?S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w Kartuzach.W dniu 12.06.1947 zosta? oddelegowany do pe?nienia obowi?zk車w?s?dziego S?du Grodzkiego i notariusza w Wejherowie.W dniu 04.03.1948 ?ona, kt車ra przebywa?a ju? na sta?e w Anglii,?wnios?a pozew o rozw車d z Kazimierzem, z powodu d?ugotrwa?ej roz??ki?stron, spowodowanej ostatni? wojn?.26.05.1948 orzeczono rozw車d i przyznano by?ej ?onie prawo do?zachowania nazwiska ?Krygowska§.W dniu 28.07.1949 zosta? mianowany notariuszem w Wejherowie,?mieszka? tam przy ul. Sobieskiego 304, p車?niej przy ul. Nanieckiej 1.Od dnia 1.01.1952 roku pracowa? jako kierownik Pa里stwowego Biura?Notarialnego w Wejherowie.Po przej?ciu na emerytur? dnia 31.07.1966, by? ju? schorowanym?cz?owiekiem. They had the following children.174 M i Zbigniew KRYGOWSKI was born in ok.1921. He died in 1943?in Syberia.175 F ii Ewa KRYGOWSKA was born in ok.1923. She died in 5 Dec ?2005.Maria married Polish officer HIPOLIT KAZIMIERZ S?ABICKI in 09.1953?in Newton A. Hipolit was born in 1893. He died in 06.1965 in Newton A U.K." Prezes Fundacji Kresy每Syberia
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chaim meiersdorf