That is the problem that you did not read MacDonalds book, but only reviews. It is not a base to draw any conclusions, especially to accuse the author to be anti-Jewish. I have read his books and did not find any ani-Jewish views.? As a matter of fact he presents only what the Jews do, historical facts and published articles and documents. He also presents very positive views about Jews. Please, prove your point, quote something from the book, give the page number, so everybody can check it. Otherwise it is just as others here said before, blanket baseless accusation.
On the other hand, it may be that for you extremely ani-Jewish thing is to have different point of view on some subjects than Jews. If that is the case, please do not try to silence anybody here.? I do not care about what views the author has. I have my own views, which I have built for years. What I care about is if this author is truthful, and his book is based on facts, and those facts are well documented. I only mention that kind of books in my posts. Jan Tomasz Gross books had also very good reviews, but in opinion of other historians his books are distorted and baseless in many parts.
We share common history for more than a 1000 years, it was very complex, enter-twined, tangled during second world war, we have victims, killers, tormentors, heroes, traitors, soldiers on both sides, Jewish and Polish.? A lot of polish soldiers from PSZ were tormented by Jews under communist regime after they came back to Poland in 1945-1947. Some ended in prison. That subject also belongs to this group. It is not an accusation, there is no place for accusation here. We just need to ?know the facts. As prof. Ewa Kruk quoted: "the most painful of atrocities are those done by members of my nation." She was thinking about Poles.
You say: " I thought that the kresy-siberia group would deal with the history of what happened to the Polish people, ALL Polish people during WW2."
That is exactly what I am doing here. You can not understand that history without understanding the Jews, their beliefs, religion, ways of life, tradition. I know a lot about them, worked with them many years. Have pretty close relations with some. Yet, Ewa Kruk describes things I never heard of. Mesmerizing. Chaim, please relax, read the books, not the reviews. We both know that Jews love the books. Probably you know also, that you can just buy anything, even review the way you want it.
Jan
On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Chaim Meiersdorf chaim01@... [Kresy-Siberia] <Kresy-Siberia@...> wrote:
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I looked at MacDonald’s website and at some of the reviews of his books on Amazon. My father was a Polish Jew who went through world war 2. I thought that the kresy-siberia group would deal with the history of what happened to the Polish people, ALL Polish people during WW2. Bringing in MacDonald and his extreme anti-Jewish views does not do a service to this group. Please stay away from this type of literature since it does not do anyone any good. Thank you Chaim Meiersdorf ? ? ? Do we have another choice but to live the history to the historians?? Of course we do not. Who is able to sift through tons of documents, scores of books and devote years of work to one subject? None of us, for sure. Very few of us know more than one or two historical books on one subject, let alone know what is going on in the realm of historian publication in a country or the world. And this particular subject is also a field of historical study and debate, also in connection to politics. A have read two of them lately: "The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary ?Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements (1998) by Prof. Kevin MacDonald ?. The other are his essays from The Occidental Quarterly (2003-2004) gathered in a book "Fenomen ?ydowski? Ze studiów nad etniczn? aktywno?ci?." Both published in Poland. For the Jews, not knowing how the world works is unthinkable. Before I have discovered that attitude in conversations with them in 1986 I did not know much about how the world works. I have discovered that lately, after reading above mentioned and scores of other books. Jews not only know how the world works, they make it work the way they want. As we have left the history to the historians, the next question is to which ones? Should it be Jan Tomasz Gross, described by Stanislaw Michalkiewicz - - as "macabre fabulist". We know that he lies in his publications and as a source of those lies he quotes his own earlier statements. His statement in german newspaper Die Welt: "The Poles during the war killed more Jews than Germans" is now a subject of official polish investigation (1DS. 246/15 Prok. Rej. Katowice-Pó?noc) for the crime of insulting polish nation. - says: Jan Tomasz Gross (born 1947) is a Poland-born American historian and sociologist, which is also a lie. He is not a historian, he is a sociologist. This guy received Bachelor Cross of Merit from polish president Aleksander Kwa?niewski (SLD) in 1996. We will see if they dare to strip this honor from him I gave you source, as I see here suspicion towards right wing. It is owned by the Kraków-based Grupa Onet.pl S.A. It was founded in 1996 by Optimus company. According to Alexa rankings, as of December 2007, it is the 45th most popular website worldwide and the 3rd most popular site in Poland. Ringier Axel Springer Media AG holds the majority of Onet since 2012 (75%). Why do Gross and others do that? It is a clear picture of historians performing political tasks for profits. Many polish historians, politicians, artists and celebrities take part in this also. Gross after his scandalic words in Germany took part in Warsaw Conference and repeated his stance. ? Poland in the world public opinion has to be degraded, ashamed, be guilty. It would be easier to trengthen?the compensation claims for jewish lost properties in Poland.? Can we do anything about it? Bernie suggest opposition. I my opinion we can condemn such publications, but it is not our task. We have just to pickup the right books, and that requires some knowledge about honest historical craft. Read critical books, reviews. One of the best in my opinion is prof. Ewa Kruk, and her "Polish-Jewish Relations 1939-1945" is fantastic, though truthful about polish actions. ? On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Stefan Wisniowski stefan.wisniowski@... [Kresy-Siberia] <Kresy-Siberia@...> wrote: ? Good answer to Witek's questions. It was powerful "nationalism" that was behind the attacks on Poles by Germans, Ukrainians and Russians in WW2. Comparing it to "fascism" is a non-sequitur, one need not be a fascist or a socialist to be a nationalist - and vice-versa.? As for Kresy-Siberia, we are not concerned about the "political costs" of doing the right thing. However, there is no benefit in aligning ourselves with one political party or another. In fact, in the USA such alignment is strictly forbidden for charities,and rightly so. As long as a ?government supports our mission and does so ethically, as a foundation we have no business "resisting" them, no matter what our personal opinions. If they are against our mission, we must resist them,?no matter what our personal opinions. ? Witold,
In answer to the question about which was worse, I can simple recount dad's comment which is that "The Russians were terrible but the Germans were far worse."
He goes on to explain that while there was massive incompetence in their administration resulting in tremendous hardships it was still possible to live though in a marginal and deprived sort of way.
They did do things like setting up schools and made attempts to modernize farming like providing tractors but the end result of what they did was as comical as the result was tragic.
He also comments that the Russians were governed by paranoia which lead them to attempt to control everything which is what drove the deportations and selective killings.? Under normal circumstances this is a horrible thing.?? But when held up against the NAZI regime and the systematic murder they and their Ukrainian allies engaged in, for those not deported at least - the Russians seemed like the lesser of two evils.
Re: Patriotism vs. Fascism (or Communism for that matter)
I can only quote George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism.
"By ‘nationalism’ I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled ‘good’ or ‘bad’. But secondly — and this is much more important — I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
Stefan,
It is the usurpation of history for political purposes that I am objecting to.? It is not possible for any political party or politician to dictate what history is.? ANY and ALL such moves like the actions described of PIS need to be resisted.?? I read into your comments that you are concerned that there may be a political cost to opposing them.? This is exactly the problem I am warning about.
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