Hmm, maybe I'm missing the point too - of WA7SKG's complaint. I have
been using APRS or nearly
20 years, fixed station and mobile. Most of the time mobile I have
been satisfied with the
non-graphic display of a Kenwood D700/710. When I needed a full
graphic display of APRS-FI,
UI-View or YAAC it wasn't a big deal to use my iPad or connect a
laptop. No doubt a format
suitable for a 7" display connected to an RPi would be useful but APRS
has been useful without
it for a long time. If Andrew can come up with a suitable layout for
use with YAAC that would
be great but it is more important to get it right than to just get
it released.

Bob G0BUX/W0BUX


On 2019-12-28 17:07, Andrew P. wrote:

Let me clarify.

YAAC's screens were designed for a conventional laptop PC, with
minimally 1024x768 pixels to work with. They weren't designed for
low-resolution screens, because it's too hard to draw a usable map
with limited pixels. So the screen layout assumed that there would be
enough width to display all the messaging controls at the bottom of
the map window.

The menu choice Message->Station provides the same functionality in a
popup dialog window, but has the fields in different lines, so it may
not require as much screen width.

I have been contemplating an alternate screen for low-res mobile
operations (such as the 7" touchscreen for Raspberry Pi), but haven't
come up with a layout I like yet that will fit in such a tiny space
and still be operable with fat fingers on a touchscreen.

Andrew, KA2DDO
author of YAAC
________________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of
Christopher Rose <kb8uih88@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 11:13 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Re: [yaac-users] Message box

Michael, Andrew said menu choices will get you where you want to go
on your smaller screen. Then you say too bad? Did I misunderstand this
exchange?

Chris


-----------------------------------------

From: "Michael WA7SKG"
To: "Andrew P.", "[email protected]"
Cc:
Sent: Saturday December 28 2019 6:05:11AM
Subject: Re: [yaac-users] Message box

That is too bad. Perhaps I am misinformed or have misunderstood, but I
thought the whole purpose of APRS was to cater to the mobile user to
provide a quick and easy method of reporting position, status, and brief
messages. Mobile operation, by its nature, necessitates smaller screens
and demands minimal operator actions to accomplish a task. The system
should be driven to meet that situation, rather than make it more
difficult for the primary purpose.

Maybe I am missing the point of APRS. Perhaps further investigation is
in order.

Michael WA7SKG


Andrew P. wrote on 12/27/19 6:24 PM:

It's because your window is too small. The rightmost controls in the
footer are being drawn off-screen because they don't fit in the allowed
window space.

There are menu choices to get you the same functionality in a smaller
window.



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
Date: 12/27/19 20:16 (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yaac-users] Message box

Another question. On my base configuration, at the bottom of the
screen,
there are three boxes, TO, VIA, and Message, followed by a SEND button.
I can put in a callsign, a path, and some text, hit send and it goes to
that station. However, on my just configured mobile, only the TO and
VIA
boxes are visible. The TEXT box and the SEND button are missing.

Is this a configuration issue? Or because I am using a much smaller
screen (22" on base, 7" on mobile)?

Thanks,
Michael WA7SKG

Michael, Andrew said menu choices will get you where you want to go on your smaller screen. Then you say too bad? Did I misunderstand this exchange?
Chris
-----------------------------------------
From: "Michael WA7SKG"
To: "Andrew P.", "[email protected]"
Cc:
Sent: Saturday December 28 2019 6:05:11AM
Subject: Re: [yaac-users] Message box
That is too bad. Perhaps I am misinformed or have misunderstood, but I
thought the whole purpose of APRS was to cater to the mobile user to
provide a quick and easy method of reporting position, status, and brief
messages. Mobile operation, by its nature, necessitates smaller screens
and demands minimal operator actions to accomplish a task. The system
should be driven to meet that situation, rather than make it more
difficult for the primary purpose.
Maybe I am missing the point of APRS. Perhaps further investigation is
in order.
Michael WA7SKG
Andrew P. wrote on 12/27/19 6:24 PM:
> It's because your window is too small. The rightmost controls in the
> footer are being drawn off-screen because they don't fit in the allowed
> window space.
>
> There are menu choices to get you the same functionality in a smaller
> window.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
> Date: 12/27/19 20:16 (GMT-05:00)
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [yaac-users] Message box
>
> Another question. On my base configuration, at the bottom of the screen,
> there are three boxes, TO, VIA, and Message, followed by a SEND button.
> I can put in a callsign, a path, and some text, hit send and it goes to
> that station. However, on my just configured mobile, only the TO and VIA
> boxes are visible. The TEXT box and the SEND button are missing.
>
> Is this a configuration issue? Or because I am using a much smaller
> screen (22" on base, 7" on mobile)?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael WA7SKG
>

Let me clarify.
YAAC's screens were designed for a conventional laptop PC, with
minimally 1024x768 pixels to work with. They weren't designed for
low-resolution screens, because it's too hard to draw a usable map
with limited pixels. So the screen layout assumed that there would be
enough width to display all the messaging controls at the bottom of
the map window.
The menu choice Message->Station provides the same functionality in a
popup dialog window, but has the fields in different lines, so it may
not require as much screen width.
I have been contemplating an alternate screen for low-res mobile
operations (such as the 7" touchscreen for Raspberry Pi), but haven't
come up with a layout I like yet that will fit in such a tiny space
and still be operable with fat fingers on a touchscreen.
Andrew, KA2DDO
author of YAAC
________________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of
Christopher Rose <kb8uih88@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2019 11:13 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: Re: [yaac-users] Message box
Michael, Andrew said menu choices will get you where you want to go
on your smaller screen. Then you say too bad? Did I misunderstand this
exchange?
Chris
-----------------------------------------
From: "Michael WA7SKG"
To: "Andrew P.", "[email protected]"
Cc:
Sent: Saturday December 28 2019 6:05:11AM
Subject: Re: [yaac-users] Message box
That is too bad. Perhaps I am misinformed or have misunderstood, but I
thought the whole purpose of APRS was to cater to the mobile user to
provide a quick and easy method of reporting position, status, and brief
messages. Mobile operation, by its nature, necessitates smaller screens
and demands minimal operator actions to accomplish a task. The system
should be driven to meet that situation, rather than make it more
difficult for the primary purpose.
Maybe I am missing the point of APRS. Perhaps further investigation is
in order.
Michael WA7SKG
Andrew P. wrote on 12/27/19 6:24 PM:

It's because your window is too small. The rightmost controls in the
footer are being drawn off-screen because they don't fit in the allowed
window space.
There are menu choices to get you the same functionality in a smaller
window.
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
Date: 12/27/19 20:16 (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yaac-users] Message box
Another question. On my base configuration, at the bottom of the screen,
there are three boxes, TO, VIA, and Message, followed by a SEND button.
I can put in a callsign, a path, and some text, hit send and it goes to
that station. However, on my just configured mobile, only the TO and VIA
boxes are visible. The TEXT box and the SEND button are missing.
Is this a configuration issue? Or because I am using a much smaller
screen (22" on base, 7" on mobile)?
Thanks,
Michael WA7SKG

It's because your window is too small. The rightmost controls in the footer are being drawn off-screen because they don't fit in the allowed window space.
There are menu choices to get you the same functionality in a smaller window.
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
Date: 12/27/19 20:16 (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yaac-users] Message box
Another question. On my base configuration, at the bottom of the screen,
there are three boxes, TO, VIA, and Message, followed by a SEND button.
I can put in a callsign, a path, and some text, hit send and it goes to
that station. However, on my just configured mobile, only the TO and VIA
boxes are visible. The TEXT box and the SEND button are missing.
Is this a configuration issue? Or because I am using a much smaller
screen (22" on base, 7" on mobile)?
Thanks,
Michael WA7SKG

I didn't expect that the MicE status would be changed that often, and it mostly applies to mobile stations, since a fixed station can't really be "en route" or "returning".
I didn't think it was that hard to edit that one beacon setting from the expert-mode configuration dialog.
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
Date: 12/27/19 15:55 (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yaac-users] Station Status
In going through the configuration part of the manual, I see in the
BEACON tab, there is a choice for Station Status if you are using the
MicE Beacon Type. I haven't found everything yet in this manual. Is
there a quicker way to set the status than going through the whole
configuration routine? It would be nice to have something like macro
buttons or something on the screen to change this on the fly.
I'm sure I am missing something, as this seems like a fairly dynamic
thing that should be readily changeable.
tnx es 73,
Michael WA7SKG

1. As stated in my other email reply, digipeaters don't acknowledge
your packets; they only repeat them so further-away stations can hear
you. Only the end APRS-IS server EMAIL can send acknowledgement
messages to your messages, and that's only if there is a complete
return path to you, including a transmit-capable I-gate station to
forward the Internet-originated ack packet to RF. And many people do
not want to operate a transmit I-gate due to regulatory issues.
Also, I think the server name is EMAIL-2. Because if it had worked,
you would have received an email even if you never saw the
acknowledgement packet.
1.b. Pink (strictly speaking, magenta) text in the raw packets view
indicates an invalid packet, typically due to a syntax error (not the
correct quantity of digit characters for a latitude or longitude
specification, dropped character due to flow control issues at
someone's TNC, packet collisions, etc.).
1.c. RF->IS I-gating (or Rx I-gating) is where a station has both an
RF radio and an Internet connection to the APRS-IS Internet backbone,
so that packets received from RF are forwarded to the backbone. IS->RF
gating (or Tx I-gating) is where, under strictly limited conditions,
packets received from the APRS-IS Internet backbone are retransmitted
on RF (such as the acknowledgement packet from the EMAIL-2 server).
Note that, under radio regulations in almost all jurisdictions, a Tx
I-gate station operator has some level of legal responsibility for the
packets forwarded from the Internet to RF, which is why many I-gate
operators only run Rx I-gates (to limit their liability for packets
they did not originate). However, such limitations breaks many APRS-IS
server applications that require two-way communication with another
APRS station requesting the server's services.
1.d. There is no specific other station on "the other end" of your
communications. APRS is a multicast form of communications, where all
other local APRS stations can hear and process your transmissions.
YAAC does keep a log of every single packet you transmit (to comply to
the fullest extent possible with station logging regulations)
regardless of whether anybody else heard it, so you can see what went
out over your RF port at any time simply by reading the timestamped
log file in your configured log files directory.
If you are configured as a Tx I-gate, packets that meet the
requirements for IS->RF forwarding will be transmitted by your station
as soon as they are received from the Internet. This is in addition to
your periodic beacon transmission (if enabled), and any other traffic
you choose to send.
Do note that the Raw Packets window (and most other windows in YAAC)
display the information that you _receive_, not what you transmit. You
will only see your own transmissions there if you hear a digipeater
station retransmitting your packets.
Also note that some TNCs (the Byonics TinyTrak4 being one I am
personally familiar with) can transmit beacons on their own while
simultaneously being used by YAAC. Note that such beacons configured
in the TNC itself will not be logged by YAAC (since YAAC didn't tell
the TNC to send them), unless of course you hear an "echo-back" from a
local digipeater.
1.e. YAAC is not set up to send just one position beacon. Either you
have your beacon turned on and it will be transmitted at the
configured retransmit interval, or it won't be sent at all. It is
possible to "hurry up" your beacon transmission for test purposes by
pressing the space bar on your keyboard while the YAAC map window has
keyboard focus; that will cause an immediate beacon transmission,
regardless of the current timer settings for periodic transmission.
1.f. Digipeat alias paths are only applicable to RF transmissions;
you can basically consider all APRS-IS stations as effectively
directly connected to each other, even though the packets do get
hopped through one or more backbone servers. Either WIDE2-2 or
WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 are common choices for RF digipeat paths. You may wish
to use other values if you are in particular geographic areas (such as
the California mountain ranges, where a single digipeater has a range
of hundreds of miles, so just WIDE2-1 is appropriate), or if you are a
mobile station. Proportional pathing is a feature that allows you to
cycle through different digipeat paths, typically to keep nearby
stations frequently updated with your status changes (i.e., position
of mobile station) while less often cluttering up remote stations with
digipeated copies. For example, the default proportional pathing in
YAAC would transmit your beacon with the paths of:
-- no digipeat alias --
WIDE1-1
-- no digipeat alias --
WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1
1.g. Generally, _don't_ enable the automatic message acknowledgement.
This is only for certain specific use cases (such as a Net Control
station having to answer a "call of nature" :-), and just clutters the
airwaves otherwise.
1.h. Regarding digipeated packets, you want to look in the
Destination column on the Raw Packets view. If it is only the tocall
of the sending station, it is most likely a packet received from
APRS-IS (assuming you are doing that). Otherwise, it will have a
digipeat path displayed. The asterisk '*' character in the the
digipeat path indicates how much of the path was used-up at the point
where you heard it. For example, a packet reading
->A1BCD-5, WIDE1*,WIDE2-1
would have been digipeated once by the station A1BCD-5 (because the
WIDE1-1 alias was reduced to WIDE1-0 but the WIDE2-1 hasn't been used
yet), and
->A1BCD-5,WIDE1,K3XYZ-2,WIDE2* would indicate that the packet was
digipeated twice through A1BCD-5 and K3XYZ-2.
However, this can be vague, because not all digipeater stations
"trace" (insert their digipeater callsign into the path before the
alias they "consume"), and you don't know if the WIDE2-1 was actually
started as a WIDE2-2 and was partially consumed by a non-tracing
station.
Note that you _can't_ figure out propagation by using APRS-IS. The
APRS-IS backbone deletes duplicate packets, so if more than one I-gate
heard a particular packet (possibly at different stages of
digipeating), only the first one to actually get it to the backbone
gets reported. So you will never reliably see multiple paths for a
packet on APRS-IS.
For appropriate filtering for your question, on the Edit Filter
dialog's Miscellaneous tab, look at the Stations within Local Contact
section, and pick a different radio button than All Stations.
Hope this helps.
Andrew, KA2DDO
author of YAAC
________________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of M Lu
<wd4elg@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2019 1:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yaac-users] New user questions
Apologies if this is a repeat, I tried to post via web earlier and I
do not see my post in the groups history yet.
1. I tried to send myself an email to
wd4elg@...<mailto:wd4elg@...> (had to try several times
before I was heard, but I was heard), but the email never made it
through. I did see the packet get acknowledged, but then the YACC
took over with a mind of its own and started transmitting again and
again. Why not stop when the first digi-peater acknowledged it at
0531? APRS.FI message history shows that it went into the system. (I
tried this with UISS software earlier tonight for three different
email addresses and nothing went through then either).
12/26/2019 5:27 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0001
12/26/2019 5:28 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0001
12/26/2019 5:29 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0002
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0003
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0004
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0005
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0006
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0007
12/26/2019 5:30
WINNSB>APDW15,W4SNA-3,WIDE2:}WD4ELG>APJYC1,TCPIP,WINNSB*::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0006
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0001
12/26/2019 5:30 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0002
12/26/2019 5:30
WINNSB>APDW15,ANDMTN:}WD4ELG>APJYC1,TCPIP,WINNSB*::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0001
12/26/2019 5:31 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0003
12/26/2019 5:31 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0004
12/26/2019 5:31
WINNSB>APDW15,W4SNA-3,WIDE2:}WD4ELG>APJYC1,TCPIP,WINNSB*::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0003
12/26/2019 5:31 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0005
12/26/2019 5:31 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0006
12/26/2019 5:31 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0007
12/26/2019 5:32 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test{m0002
12/26/2019 5:33 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0003
12/26/2019 5:33 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0004
12/26/2019 5:33 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0005
12/26/2019 5:33 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0006
12/26/2019 5:33 WD4ELG>APJYC1::EMAIL
:wd4elg@... Email test v2{m0007
1. Why is some text appearing as pink in the packets/sniffer window?
1. How does IS-->RF gating work? RF-->IS gating?
1. Why does the software transmit data randomly through my rig,
when I do NOT have beacon turned on? Is that the RF-->IS gating?
IS-->RF gating? How do I know who is on the other end of my
transmissions? I made sure this gating feature is turned off but the
software is still sending out packets at random times and not showing
what is being sent from me in the packet window. (no info in the
manual)
1. How do I send a single position report without repeated beacon?
(did not find that in the manual)
1. What should I select for my DigiPeat alias should I use? I
entered WIDE2-2 because I see that often…should I ignore this if I am
not using RF-->IS?
1. Under SETUP-->BEHAVIOR, what am I enabling when I pick “Message
to send to acknowledge text message (check o send without human
颈苍迟别谤惫别苍迟颈辞苍”?
1. Looking at the Raw Packet Sniffer, how can I determine which
signals are digipeated and which are not? I see filters, under station
category, what should I choose? Just want to see the stations that I
am hearing directly, so I can get an idea of propagation like on the
map here without the digipeated signals:
Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC FM06be
wd4elg@...<mailto:wd4elg@...>

SKCC #16439 FISTS #17972 QRP ARCI #16497