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Welcome to the list Bill Brennan. Where are you?

I have a Willys truck, but I enjoy reading the posts from the CJ's. We have
the same engines, transmissions, transfer cases, and even some axles -- just
different sheet metal and suspension to hold up that box on back.

This list is relatively new and still developing its character. So far we
seem to have been able to avoid stupid "me to" notes that quote a long
thread without any significant addition. We have also been lucky enough to
avoid flame wars. The list was founded by someone who got tired of people
belittling others with different tastes in Willys, so we have tried to
remain as open as possible. Any topic related to Willys Jeeps is OK. That
includes restoring, modifying, driving, and especially technical
discussions, as the name would imply. No question is too stupid and no
particular modification is shunned.

The list can be overwhelming at times. I'm still on a couple other lists,
including JeepTech which used to be the biggest pressure on my mail storage
quota. WillysTech is frequently bigger than JeepTech lately. If your email
system can handle it, get a filter to put the list messages into a separate
folder (directory or whatever). At least that way you can control the flow.

A suggestion to all: Please contain the urge to comment on every topic.
Reply only when you have something significant to add to the thread or when
you are requesting clarification. I don't want to play the heavy and tell
people their posts are not worth anything. I think we can all make that
decision for ourselves. Also, make sure the subject line is accurate.
Consider that some people are deleting notes without reading them based on
the subject line.

Rick
www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys

PS: Check my web site if you haven't seen it already. I hope you'll find it
useful. Please join the Gallery.

Status report: The Willys is up on jack stands, fly wheel is getting a new
ring gear. Foot-activated starter has been to the shop to learn new manners,
with the hope that it won't eat the new gear. New tires ordered. New front
springs laying beside the garage. I'll be a mechanic until noon tomorrow,
then I go shooting in the desert with or without Willys. :-)

PPS: My first attempt to send this note was rejected by my mail server
because I was over my storage quota again! :-(

I have the chilton version covering the engine in the Jeep (Gladiator???)
trucks that gives some information on it. There was an origional addition to
the manual that covered the 6-230 that I would love to locate. Is this what
you have???

Ron Cox

wohleb wrote:

In a message dated 10/16/98, 2:53:10 PM, WillysTech@... writes:
<< L-134 - SLOW CRANKING ON STARTUP ATTEMPT

My 2A's flathead-4 is *very slow* to turn over while attempting
to start, to the point of battery drain and strain. Makes one
think the engine has too much compression for the starter to
handle.

It will turn a few revolutions, then stop. I must then turn key
again for a new attempt, even on a fresh battery.>>

David, I had a similar problem with a 73 Spitfire. It turned out that the
bearing at the tail end of the starter was worn-out. This allowed the rotor
to rub on the inside of the windings. It created a lot of heat and caused me
to have to attempt multiple starts. If you take the starter off and shake it
and it makes a clunking sound this is most likely the problem. I would take
it apart to verify the problem.

Hope this helps

Rick S

I just logged back in and found 5 Willys Tech e-mails. I hope this means the
problem is fixed. For those of you that sent me stuff and tried to help, I
send my most heartfelt thanks and gratitude. For the rest of you guys, thanks
for being there. I was suffering withdrawl.

Rick S

At 09:12 PM 10/15/98 -0500, you wrote:

From: "Robert Stewart" <rstewart@...>

Ron,
I have a 6-230 engine manual if you have any engine questions. I also have
a parts breakdown that covers the 230 wagons also. I will look at them to
see if I can answer your question later tonight.
Bob
60/62 6-230 EXP.

Can you tell us where you got that manual????
Rob

I'll check my books when I get home. But, from what I remember (>20 years
ago) The shaft into the transmission is splined. I believe its just "stuck"
The 1-2 inches is just play in the gears/shafts/bearings/case, etc. It gets
tighter after you rebuild.

But, let me check my books before you force it. There may be a snap ring on
the shaft inside the transmission.

Rick--you are here on my system in NW Iowa. Might be your mail server.
Ron

Changing rod length is as much philosophical as practical (opening myself up for knives here). If you hold displacement and compression ratio constant, an engine can have long connectiong rods and a high in-the-piston wrist pin location; short rods with a low in-the-piston wrist pin location; or a myriad of combinations in between. As the rod length changes, the dwell time of the piston at the top or bottom of the stroke can be optimized or tuned to the other componentry. For the past several years, long rods have been in popular favor, but like most herd opinions, they fluctuate over time, and there appears to be a shift in popular thinking to short rods.

The single biggest need for adjusting rod length is to maximize displacement and stay within the engine specification rules for various racing classes.

The importance of rod length changes in other engines is highly dependant on the end use of the engine. For average bears, adjusting rod length adds cost in a big way, for an unnoticeable performance change. If, on the other hand, you are in a very competative drag or track race class, the +/-2% HP or torque change in optimizing rod length may be important. And, of course, it is fun to tell everyone how your engine is customized different than theirs.

A friend of mine has an umpty-hundred dollar computer program that tests various cam, port, compression ratio, etc. parameters mathmatically vs in hardware. His experience indicates that dyno performance parallels the program closely. Based on program results, rod length is 5th or 6th down on the list of in-engine things to optimize. For off-road machines, displacement, cam, porting would be the top three in-engine parameters to work on to improve power/torque.

I just unsubscribed and resubscribed to Willys Tech. Can some post a reply to
see if I can recieve it.

Where at in Kansas? I am by Wichita.

Ron Cox
Andover, Ks
62 pu 6-230




Rus Curtis wrote:

I'm by no means an expert on building a motor, but I believe JL's
explanation is correct. It would reduce compression, but only if you
reused the same pistons. If you put in shorter conn rods, it allows the
motor to twist higher RPM's due to JL's reasons. Add after-market domed
pistons or ones where the wrist pin is lower in the piston or some combo of
both these traits, and compression is kept at the same level or near it,
(could even be higher with the right combination). The benefit is only
found at higher RPM's, good for go fast machines, but normally not much use
for Jeeps where Torque and Grunt gets ya more. This is my rudimentary
understanding of motors from years of hot rod and street rod mags, feel
free to inform me I'm way off base :^)

Jack Starcher
Lewis Center, Ohio
'46 CJ2A
---------------------- Forwarded by Jack Starcher/COH/ColumbiaGas on
10/16/98 08:02 AM ---------------------------


pigsmith@... on 10/15/98 09:17:54 PM

Please respond to WillysTech@... @ INTERNET



To: WillysTech@... @ INTERNET

cc:



Subject: [WillysTech] Re: More air on top?




From: "J. Loving" <pigsmith@...>

pigsmith@... wrote:

Yesterday I went to look at an anvil and ended up as a spectator to a

conversation about engines. I vaguely understand about "porting" and the
reasons for putting in shorter connecting rods, but in doing so, the
air/fuel mix above the piston doesn't get compressed as much. I thought
the ideal was to get the most volume squeezed into the smallest space
before igniting it? Or am I confusing myself with some basic jet engine
theory from way back? Is the point of increasing the volume of air/fuel
mixture the whole point, period (not the squeezing)? Did I just answer
my own question(s)?

Well, the point of porting IS to get more air/fuel in the cylinder.
Why they would put shorted con rods I have no idea, unless they were
having detonation problems (and then that is still a screwy way of
getting around the problem).
Did you get the anvil?

-Mitch Utsey

Yup, I got the anvil..
To get back to the short connecting rods-- their reasoning was that in
doing so the crank takes less time to make a complete revolution,
there's less weight to pull while doing so, and with boring out the
cylinders and putting in a nice snappy cam, the idea was to get more
"hit" out of the engine.
But I'm confused about the compression part. Enlarging the volume of air
seems counterproductive to the reasons for shortening the rods: yeah
sure, the crank goes around quicker, but the compression is reduced
because the rods are shorter....?
JL


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WillysTech

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It is for the govenor contol cable as many others have stated. The control
has approx. 9 teeth settings each representing 200rpm engine speed, after
the first notch sets speed at 1000rpm. I've seen several of these controls
and my cj3a had one which I haven't put back on as of yet.

Hey guys did I get dropped off the list. I haven't recieved anything since
yesterday morning from you guys and I didn't even see my own post. Did you
guys vote me out by secret balet :-( I sure hope not. If I did get dropped
some one send me an E-mail to tell me how to get back in. Do I just
resubscribe.

Hope to see you all again soon.

Rick S (Lonely in TX)

Steve--This is a test to see if I can post to the list. I wanted to
tell you that I think you have a terrific 2A.

Ron Cook
Sgt. Bluff, IA
l943GPW, 1951M38

Rob,
I ordered my parts from Carl. I guess thats standard on this list though.
His number is on Grover's web site. An extremely helpful and informative site at
that.

Ron Cox
62 pu 6-230

wohleb wrote:

I don't see a washer where you described in the parts book. I also don't
remember one there when I rebuilt mine last year.
Bob

----------

From: Robert Stewart <rstewart@...>
To: WillysTech@...
Subject: [WillysTech] Re: T-90
Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 9:12 PM

From: "Robert Stewart" <rstewart@...>

Ron,
I have a 6-230 engine manual if you have any engine questions. I also

have

a parts breakdown that covers the 230 wagons also. I will look at them

to

see if I can answer your question later tonight.
Bob
60/62 6-230 EXP.

----------

From: Ron C <radigan@...>
To: WillysTech@...
Subject: [WillysTech] T-90
Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 8:06 AM

From: Ron C <radigan@...>

After rebuilding my T-90, and then doing it again because I forgot to

put

the oil shield in

place, I have a question. I have the utility manual for Jeep vehicles

but it does not cover the

6-230 engine...which I have. In the exploded view, it shows a washer

betweeen the rear main

bearing and the gear which drives the transfer case but mine did not

have

such a washer when

disassembling it. Is this because someone else left it off or is it

not

used on my 62 pu.

Thanks
Ron Cox
62 PU 6-230

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WillysTech

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service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
for more information.
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I have been trying to remove the transfercase
from the transmission from a 44 willys mb
Is there a trick.It only comes out 1-2 inches.
Something is holding it back.
Is there something i am doing wrong.
Any help would be greatfull.
Thanks
Terry

I will ck it out ASAP I don't think mine has one and it is equipped with a
PTO winch. But it has been highly customized to put it politely. Joseph

Ron,
I have a 6-230 engine manual if you have any engine questions. I also have
a parts breakdown that covers the 230 wagons also. I will look at them to
see if I can answer your question later tonight.
Bob
60/62 6-230 EXP.

----------

From: Ron C <radigan@...>
To: WillysTech@...
Subject: [WillysTech] T-90
Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 8:06 AM

From: Ron C <radigan@...>

After rebuilding my T-90, and then doing it again because I forgot to put

the oil shield in

place, I have a question. I have the utility manual for Jeep vehicles

but it does not cover the

6-230 engine...which I have. In the exploded view, it shows a washer

betweeen the rear main

bearing and the gear which drives the transfer case but mine did not have

such a washer when

disassembling it. Is this because someone else left it off or is it not

used on my 62 pu.

Thanks
Ron Cox
62 PU 6-230


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Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
for more information.
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WillysTech

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In my first message to you folks I forgot to include a short note about my
vehicle. I own a 1956 4X4 Willys pickup. It has been in the restoration
process now for about 5 yrs. It has been slow going due to a lack of funds
and time. I have customized much of the vehicle as a result of the poor
shape it was in when I purchased it. It would have been very difficult to
get it back to stock.
Since my subscription to this site, roughly 24hrs ago, I have been over
loaded with e-mail. Is it possible to receive only mail about Willys
trucks?

Bill