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Re: Expanding from a Digitrax Zephyr system to a Super Empire Builder system
Doug Stuard
The DT400R can be connected to the command station via loconet for
programming. If you are usingthe DB150 as your command station however, yo will be limited to the DB150 programming features (no CV readback, no separate programming track). Or you can re-option your DCS50 as a command station. 6 of one...... Doug --- In WiringForDCC@..., "Ron Massa" <ron@r...> wrote: I appreciate "experienced" advice. Can I connect the DT400Rthrottle via loconet (not in simplex radio mode) and use that for programminginstead of switching the DCS50 back to command station mode? If not,switching the DCS50 back to programming mode in the rare occasion that I need toprogram doesn't seem like a big deal.[mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Doug Stuardsystem to a Super Empire Builder systemdo this.in- UT4Rone command station/booster/throttle and use it to run my newlayout(single power district running two locos on a small layout). Itbuilder 6-throttle, a PM42, plus some other stuff (will probably expand to 8(stillloco addresses max. with 2 or 3 users max. at a time). intoas a single power district) and use my new DB150 as my new 4tonew power districts? I will subdivide my expansion into 4 power althoughrun from the new command station? Since I will be greatlyexpandingmy layout I think I would prefer to switch to the DB150 as my Isubject=Unsubscribe>probably will never exceed the 10 max addresses of the ZephyrDCS150so I want to do whatever is easiest. Your advice is greatly
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Re: Peco double slip insulfrog
JOHN
hi
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I am new myself but my simple understanding is that insulfrog will work straight out of the box but you will suffer a dead spot especially with slow moving shunting locos with limited pickup whereas electofrog requires a little reworking but offers much better continuity of traction current. A full explantion with diagrams is available on the turnouts section of the WiringForDCC page. John -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of tundrathe Sent: 14 December 2005 22:09 To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Peco double slip insulfrog I am new to DCC. Why does insulfrog or electrofrog matter in terms of wiring for DCC. thanks Joe Capizzi --- In WiringForDCC@..., "Elliott Janofsky" <ejanofsky@h...> wrote: > > John, Dale Glower talks about the electrofrog double slip not needing much. > Since the insulfrogs of regular type are even more friendly, am assuming > correctly that nothing has to be done for the double slip either? In looking > at it and using it , it seems that way. I guess throwing jumpers in would > help it also. Thanks for the answer. Elliott > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JOHN" jcebay@n... > To: WiringForDCC@... > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:43 AM > Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Peco double slip insulfrog > > > > Hi > > I am not sure that you have to do anything with it other than power it. > > If you look at the diagram on the wiring for turnouts page then compare it > > with the peco insul slip its exactly the same. I haven't laid mine yet but > > thats how I see it at the moment. If anybody knows any different please > > tell > > me..................John > > -----Original Message----- > > From: WiringForDCC@... > > [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On > > Behalf Of Elliott Janofsky > > Sent: 13 December 2005 01:04 > > To: WiringForDCC@... > > Subject: [WiringForDCC] Peco double slip insulfrog > > > > > > I'm trying to wire a Peco insulfrog double slip to make it more DCC > > friendly. Any suggestions? Thanks, Elliott > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model > > railroads > > Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- |
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Re: Peco double slip insulfrog
tundrathe
I am new to DCC. Why does insulfrog or electrofrog matter in terms of wiring for DCC.
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thanks Joe Capizzi --- In WiringForDCC@..., "Elliott Janofsky" <ejanofsky@h...> wrote:
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Re: Terminating a Buss Run
Vollrath, Don
How about using your last feeder connection along the buss line ?
Would it be okay to " dead end " the wire inside the IDC connector. Yes, you can end the bus wires at a scotchlok IDC connector that connects the last track drop feeder to the DCC bus. But be aware that part of the IDC connector requires that the wire insulation actually extends a littler bit past the connector body in order to ensure that the wire remains straight inside the connector. DonV |
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Re: Expanding from a Digitrax Zephyr system to a Super Empire Builder system
Ron Massa
Doug: Thanks for the info! This is all still pretty new to me so I
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appreciate "experienced" advice. Can I connect the DT400R throttle via loconet (not in simplex radio mode) and use that for programming instead of switching the DCS50 back to command station mode? If not, switching the DCS50 back to programming mode in the rare occasion that I need to program doesn't seem like a big deal. Regards, Ronald A. Massa, Sr. RMA Electronics, Inc. 35 Pond Park Road, Unit #12 Hingham, MA 02043 TEL: 781-749-9700 FAX: 781-749-9707 Email: ron@... Specialists in Vision and Imaging since 1986 -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...] On Behalf Of Doug Stuard Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 2:44 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Expanding from a Digitrax Zephyr system to a Super Empire Builder system The DCS50 can be optioned to separate the throttle and booster functions (and disable the command station) so your DB150 can be used as the command station. The DCS50 manyual describes how to do this. The DB150 can feed your PM42 and the DCS50 can feed yet another power district for a total of five. Keep in mind that the DB150, when use as a command station CANNOT read back CVs, so you may want to keep the DCS50 so you can switch it back to command station mode for programming. Doug Stuard NVNTRAK --- In WiringForDCC@..., "ahacman" <ron@r...> wrote: layout (single power district running two locos on a small layout). Itbuilder set for my layout expansion currently under construction withDT400R throttle and DB150 command station/booster plus an additional UT4R8 loco addresses max. with 2 or 3 users max. at a time).4 new power districts? I will subdivide my expansion into 4 powerexpanding my layout I think I would prefer to switch to the DB150 as myI probably will never exceed the 10 max addresses of the ZephyrDCS150 so I want to do whatever is easiest. Your advice is greatly _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "WiringForDCC <> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... <mailto:WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <> Terms of Service. _____ |
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Re: Terminating a Buss Run
jmscnw
Don,
Thanks for options info. How about using your last feeder connection along the buss line ? Would it be okay to " dead end " the wire inside the IDC connector. Just cut the wires off and hold them mechanically in place....Really,the electrons won't escape. :-) Adding a wire nut to each wire will help ensure that nothing elsetouches it. It could also end at a terminal strip for future expansion of your empire. Better yet, the end of the bus run is the ideal place to add an R/Cbus terminator. So put ae point terminal strip there and use the center terminal for the R & C tiepoint. DonV |
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Re: Expanding from a Digitrax Zephyr system to a Super Empire Builder system
Doug Stuard
The DCS50 can be optioned to separate the throttle and booster
functions (and disable the command station) so your DB150 can be used as the command station. The DCS50 manyual describes how to do this. The DB150 can feed your PM42 and the DCS50 can feed yet another power district for a total of five. Keep in mind that the DB150, when use as a command station CANNOT read back CVs, so you may want to keep the DCS50 so you can switch it back to command station mode for programming. Doug Stuard NVNTRAK --- In WiringForDCC@..., "ahacman" <ron@r...> wrote: layout (single power district running two locos on a small layout). Itbuilder set for my layout expansion currently under construction withDT400R throttle and DB150 command station/booster plus an additional UT4R8 loco addresses max. with 2 or 3 users max. at a time).4 new power districts? I will subdivide my expansion into 4 powerexpanding my layout I think I would prefer to switch to the DB150 as myI probably will never exceed the 10 max addresses of the ZephyrDCS150 so I want to do whatever is easiest. Your advice is greatly |
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Re: Peco double slip insulfrog
Elliott Janofsky
John, Dale Glower talks about the electrofrog double slip not needing much. Since the insulfrogs of regular type are even more friendly, am assuming correctly that nothing has to be done for the double slip either? In looking at it and using it , it seems that way. I guess throwing jumpers in would help it also. Thanks for the answer. Elliott
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----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN" <jcebay@...> To: <WiringForDCC@...> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:43 AM Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Peco double slip insulfrog Hi |
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Expanding from a Digitrax Zephyr system to a Super Empire Builder system
ahacman
Last year I purchased a Zephyr starter set with DCS 50 all-in-
one command station/booster/throttle and use it to run my new layout (single power district running two locos on a small layout). It works great! I just purchased a Radio equipped Super Empire builder set for my layout expansion currently under construction with DT400R throttle and DB150 command station/booster plus an additional UT4R throttle, a PM42, plus some other stuff (will probably expand to 6-8 loco addresses max. with 2 or 3 users max. at a time). My question is can I switch my Zephyr DCS 50 to a throttle and booster only to run my original layout portion (still as a single power district) and use my new DB150 as my new booster/command station driving the new expansion subdivided into 4 new power districts? I will subdivide my expansion into 4 power stations (main line, freight yard, side spurs, etc.) so I also purchased a PM42. Do I have to reprogram my current two locos to run from the new command station? Since I will be greatly expanding my layout I think I would prefer to switch to the DB150 as my command station now as it will offer more addresses, etc. although I probably will never exceed the 10 max addresses of the Zephyr DCS150 so I want to do whatever is easiest. Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you. |
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Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage
Vollrath, Don
Well...Yes & no. The concepts of modulating one signal (the carrier) with another (the signal) have been around for a long time. Think Radio & TV. Then add the cpmplications of color TV, then hundreds of channels multiplexed on a single cable. They didn't have microcomputers/microcontrollers when those products were invented and sold by the millions. But if you will pardon the pun, you are on the right track. Model RR products are physically small. One COULD use discrete components (Resistors, capacitors, transistors, etc.) to detect and properly decode the composite signal. But without using any integrated circuits you would be talking about thousands of components, in a really big box...And a nightmare of reliability problems. First came Integrated circuits (available in 1960's), then the programmable Microccomputers (1970's), then Microcontrollers (1980's) and other small surface mount components. The basic concepts of DCC were invented in the 1980's but used by only by one or two competitive companies. However, it is the combination of availabity of compact low cost microcontrollers, and the standardization of DCC through efforts of the NMRA, and the mass of interested modelers with money that makes it all available today. The microcontroller does make it possible to fit that much flexible logic in that small of a box at a reasonable price.
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So, Yeah. Without the Microcontroller we wouldn't have DCC. DonV -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:08 PM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage Thank you very much. I have a clearer picture on how signal is superimposed on AC. Just for curiousity sake, since this is so simple, why wasn't this being introduced long time ago...like in the 60's or 70's? What make it so 'acceptable' in the 90's? The only reason I can of (not even sure if i am right)is that the signal can only be decoded by a microcontroller. Am i right to say that? Aros --- In WiringForDCC@..., Mark Gurries <gurriesm@c...> wrote: in the AC power outlet. Thus when the term AC is spoken, people jump tothat concept of what AC means and stick to it. That is not the personsfault for that is often all they ever been exposed to (known) as thecurrent that is flowing back and forth changing voltage polarity as itgoes at a rate described in terms of a frequency.a fixed 120V current that changes polarity 60 times a second.only difference is that they step down the voltage to something safersuch as 16V. But it is still a 60Hz Sinewave.definition. In HO the voltage is 14.25V, 12V for N scale.traditional definitions of AC power.signal with another, but for DCC theshiftfrequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between twodifferent frequencies to represent abinary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency keying. For DCC the carrier ismeasuresa flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal. the time between them toanddetermine if a one or zero is being transmitted. zeroes) is spelled out in thevoltagedetails found at www.nmra.org. AC term, butvoltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical how toto no avail. decode it.Best Regards, Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: Terminating a Buss Run
Vollrath, Don
Just cut the wires off and hold them mechanically in place....Really, the electrons won't escape. :-)
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Adding a wire nut to each wire will help ensure that nothing else touches it. It could also end at a terminal strip for future expansion of your empire. Better yet, the end of the bus run is the ideal place to add an R/C bus terminator. So put ae point terminal strip there and use the center terminal for the R & C tiepoint. DonV -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of jmscnw Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:07 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Terminating a Buss Run What is the correct way to terminate a buss run ? Would you wrap a wire nut around the wire end ? How about just using IDC connector ? |
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Re: Peco double slip insulfrog
JOHN
Hi
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I am not sure that you have to do anything with it other than power it. If you look at the diagram on the wiring for turnouts page then compare it with the peco insul slip its exactly the same. I haven't laid mine yet but thats how I see it at the moment. If anybody knows any different please tell me..................John -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Elliott Janofsky Sent: 13 December 2005 01:04 To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Peco double slip insulfrog I'm trying to wire a Peco insulfrog double slip to make it more DCC friendly. Any suggestions? Thanks, Elliott SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model railroads Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- |
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Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage
Mark Gurries
It is not the DCC signal....It is the microprocessor abilities that
prevented this. The microprocessor in the engine decoder needs to decode the data from the DCC signal. It must synchronize itself with the DCC packets to know where to start, then assemble the all the individual bits into a complete command, interpret the command and finally act on the command if it was meant for this engine. It needs to do all this and do it in a very small package and be very low cost. Microproccessors did not even exist in the 60's. They become known about in the early 70's, finally powerful enough to be used as a personal computer in the late 70's culminating in the PC revolution of the 80's. The 90's brought down cost and size while improving speed and performance at the same time. There is more to this story...but you get the idea. The first 1A decoders used in DCC in the early 90's were all above $50, supported only one headlight, only worked with short addressing and took up 3 times as much space. Now you can get them under $15 with multiple features and functions! Thank you very much. I have a clearer picture on how signal isBest Regards, Mark Gurries Linear Technology Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager --------------------------------------------------------- Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at: -------------------------------------------------------- Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment) ---------------------------------------------------------- |
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Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage
Aaron Lau
Thank you very much. I have a clearer picture on how signal is
superimposed on AC. Just for curiousity sake, since this is so simple, why wasn't this being introduced long time ago...like in the 60's or 70's? What make it so 'acceptable' in the 90's? The only reason I can of (not even sure if i am right)is that the signal can only be decoded by a microcontroller. Am i right to say that? Aros --- In WiringForDCC@..., Mark Gurries <gurriesm@c...> wrote: in the AC power outlet. Thus when the term AC is spoken, people jump tothat concept of what AC means and stick to it. That is not the personsfault for that is often all they ever been exposed to (known) as thecurrent that is flowing back and forth changing voltage polarity as itgoes at a rate described in terms of a frequency.a fixed 120V current that changes polarity 60 times a second.only difference is that they step down the voltage to something safersuch as 16V. But it is still a 60Hz Sinewave.definition. In HO the voltage is 14.25V, 12V for N scale.traditional definitions of AC power.signal with another, but for DCC theshiftfrequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between twodifferent frequencies to represent abinary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency keying. For DCC the carrier ismeasuresa flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal. the time between them toanddetermine if a one or zero is being transmitted. zeroes) is spelled out in thevoltagedetails found at www.nmra.org. AC term, butvoltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical how toto no avail. decode it.Best Regards, |
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Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage
Mark Gurries
I would also add this thought.
Most people only think of "AC" to be 60Hz sinewave power as found in the AC power outlet. Thus when the term AC is spoken, people jump to that concept of what AC means and stick to it. That is not the persons fault for that is often all they ever been exposed to (known) as the definition. In reality the meaning of AC goes way beyond that specific implementation and is more generic and basic at the same time. The terms AC is short for "Alternating Current". AC simply means current that is flowing back and forth changing voltage polarity as it goes at a rate described in terms of a frequency. The definition does NOT include or automatically imply a numerical Voltage Level Voltage Frequency Voltage Waveshape The everyday 120V 60Hz (Sinewave) AC power is but only ONE possible implementation of AC current flow that we all know so well. It is a fixed 120V current that changes polarity 60 times a second. Many AC toy transformers (old Lionel) also put out AC power. The only difference is that they step down the voltage to something safer such as 16V. But it is still a 60Hz Sinewave. So DCC introduces yet another signal the ALSO meets the AC definition. Low Voltage, Dual Frequency, SquareWave as Don Described below. In HO the voltage is 14.25V, 12V for N scale. Thus to understand DCC, one must free one's mind from fixed traditional definitions of AC power. Hope this helps. Quite simple in theory. There are many means to modulate one signalwith another, but for DCC the frequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between twodifferent frequencies to represent a binary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency shiftkeying. For DCC the carrier is a flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal.the time between them to determine if a one or zero is being transmitted.zeroes) is spelled out in the details found at www.nmra.org.Best Regards, Mark Gurries Linear Technology Power Supply & Battery Charger Applications Engineer/Manager --------------------------------------------------------- Model Railroad Club and NMRA DCC presentations are at: -------------------------------------------------------- Audio Enthusiast (Love SAE equipment) ---------------------------------------------------------- |
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Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage
Vollrath, Don
Quite simple in theory. There are many means to modulate one signal with another, but for DCC the frequency (or period) of each cycle of AC is changed between two different frequencies to represent a binary one or zero. This is a form of integral cycle frequency shift keying. For DCC the carrier is a flat-topped rectangular AC rather than sinusoidal.
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The detection means simply looks for the zero crossings and measures the time between them to determine if a one or zero is being transmitted. The DCC communication protocol (the particular language of ones and zeroes) is spelled out in the details found at www.nmra.org. DonV -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:30 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage Hi Can someone explain to me how signal can be superimposed onto a AC voltage? I tried finding websites to explain it in technical term, but to no avail. Generally, I can't picture how this can happen, needless to say how to decode it. Aros Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: How DCC signal is superimposed onto AC voltage
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From: "Aaron Lau" <aaronlwc@...> |
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