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Hi
I have just started to convert my ssl signals to sml and I have the signals operating at one of the switches. When I run a train on the mainline the switches activate on the siding and when I operate the train on the siding the signals on the mainline operate as though they were on the siding. I have tried everything I can think of to make the switches operate on the correct route but I am at a loss. I know that one of you knows a very easy fix. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Ken
Ecuador
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Ken,
There are many possible issues.
Please upload your layout xml data file to the group's ProblemsBeingWorkedOn file folder.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem
Date: Friday, September 06, 2024 10:20 AM
Hi
I have just started to convert my ssl signals to sml and I have the signals operating at one of the switches. When I run a train on the mainline the switches activate on the siding and when I operate the train on the siding the signals on the mainline operate as though they were on the siding. I have tried everything I can think of to make the switches operate on the correct route but I am at a loss. I know that one of you knows a very easy fix. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Ken
Ecuador
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Hi Dave
I don't know how to send you the file. I have the file but don't know how to move it to you.
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Ken
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Ken,
- Go to?/g/jmriusers. Logon if necessary.
- Click on "Files" in the left column.
- Scroll down to "ProblemsBeingWorkedOn" and click on the link.
- Click on the "New/Upload" button and select "Upload File".
- Follow the prompts to find your file and click on Upload.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Friday, September 06, 2024 3:05 PM
Hi Dave
I don't know how to send you the file. I have the file but don't know how to move it to you.
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Ken
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Hi Dave
I sent the file. I hope it is the right file.
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Best
Ken F
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Ken,
You did not indicate which signal masts were not working as expected. ?After working with the file that you uploaded, the original problem might be resolved after cleaning up several major issues.
Double Crossover
The first problem is the double crossover (LT3). ?The block routing data structures only support a single connection between two blocks. ?The double crossover has two blocks, 814 and 818, which means there are two connections based on the upper to lower and the lower to upper blocks. ?The normal solution is to split the upper or lower straight track into to two blocks. ?Since the double crossover is part of two larger blocks, the following arrangement seems to work.
Ignore the red X for the signal masts.
Signal System Mast Types
The selected signal system is AAR-1946. ?The mast types are "Double position light high signal" and "Single position light high permissive signal".
The double head mast uses Lunar for Permissive, Restricting and Permissive Medium. ?The single head uses Lunar for Permissive. ?Signal heads don't have a Lunar "Appearance". ?Normally a flashing appearance is used to represent Lunar. ?Since you are using "Signal Head Controlled" masts, when a Lunar appearance is sent to the SE8C signal head definition, an error occurs. ?
An additional issue for the double head mast is that the "danger" state is mapped to Restricting. ?This means that anytime the signal mast logic wants to set the double head mast to "Stop", the Restricting Lunar appearance is send to the signal head which creates an error.
My understanding is that the single head masts should be absolute unless they are being used as intermediate block signals.
The solution is to pick a different mast type or a different signal system.
------------------
Once these two issues have been resolved, we can then see if there is still a problem with the siding signal mast aspects.
Dave Sand
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----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Friday, September 06, 2024 4:05 PM
Hi Dave
I sent the file. I hope it is the right file.
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Best
Ken F
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Hi Dave
Thanks for the analysis and time spent. The signal that I was working with was 24 that had the original problem. I had not tried to do anything with switch 3, the crossover so I will make the corrections you suggest.?
I really appreciate your help and will work on it on Sunday.?
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Best regards
Ken F
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I made the changes on the double crossover.
I was thinking of using the PRR signal system since my layout is PA based. Do you see any problem with those mast types?
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Ken,
The PRR-1956 signal system looks good.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Friday, September 06, 2024 7:44 PM
I made the changes on the double crossover.
I was thinking of using the PRR signal system since my layout is PA based. Do you see any problem with those mast types?
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Perfect. Have a good weekend.
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Ken,
AAR-1946 is similar to PRR-1956. ?If you use a xml aware editor such as NotePad++, you can do a search for AAR-1946 and replace with PRR-1956. ? This will change the signal mast system names. ?This only works because the mast type names are the same.
I recommend that you delete all of the signal mast logic first. ?Store the changes. ?Then do the search and replace and save as a different name. ?Then start PanelPro and use Tools -> Signals -> Signal Mast Logic to do the Auto Generate Signaling Pairs.
If you want a really clean reset, run the GrandReset.py script using "Scripting -> Run Script". ?This deletes transits, sections, signal mast logic and block paths. ?Do this before the signal system rename.
You also have 4 signal masts that are defined using the "DCC Signal Mast Decoder" driver. ?These create errors during xml file loading.
I also noticed there are some turnouts that have signal masts attached but don't have icons such as LT2. ?This can be fixed by right clicking on the turnout and select Set Signal Masts. ?Set "Right Hand Side" for each mast and click on Done.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Friday, September 06, 2024 9:20 PM
Perfect. Have a good weekend.
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Good morning, Dave
?
Thank you again for your thoughts.
I am using an SE74 and only have physical signals at four locations.?
I read on another post that all of the turnouts should be set up even though they don't physically have signal masts.?
I changed all the signal masts last night and still have the same original problem. I started working on turnout 01 and it has the same problem.?
I do have sectors established so I will need to correct those but nothing further.?
Also using BDL168, PR4, DCS52, 2DS64, 2DS74 all Kato track and turnouts, Digitrax signals.?
I hope this helps.?
Best
Ken
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Ken,
I recommend that you do the GrandReset.py script. ?You will lose the transit and sections, but at this point the goal is to get the signals working. ?In the long term, it will be less to work to re-create the sections than trying to fix them.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Saturday, September 07, 2024 7:30 AM
Good morning, Dave
?
Thank you again for your thoughts.
I am using an SE74 and only have physical signals at four locations.?
I read on another post that all of the turnouts should be set up even though they don't physically have signal masts.?
I changed all the signal masts last night and still have the same original problem. I started working on turnout 01 and it has the same problem.?
I do have sectors established so I will need to correct those but nothing further.?
Also using BDL168, PR4, DCS52, 2DS64, 2DS74 all Kato track and turnouts, Digitrax signals.?
I hope this helps.?
Best
Ken
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Ken,
You have 4 signal masts using the "DCC Signal Mast Decoder".
Since you mention having a SE74, I looked at the manual for the device. ?One of the options is to use "DCC Aspect control" instead of the traditional SE8C turnout control. ?In JMRI terms, this is the "DCC Signal Decoder" option for signal head appearances.
Note: ?In JMRI, signal masts have aspects, such as Clear. ?The aspect is the meaning based on one or more signal heads. ?Signal heads have appearances, such as green.
As a test, I created four DCC Signal Decoder signal heads starting at 100. ?I am assuming the SE74 base address is 100. ?I then "moved" the user names from the SE8C heads to the DCC heads. ?After a store/stop/start/load, I tested closing turnout 1. ?The SML changed the signal mast aspects which then changed the signal head appearances which then sent the appropriate command to the LocoNet.
Requesting Switch at LT1 to Closed (Output On).
Requesting Switch at LT1 to Closed (Output Off).
Extended Accessory Decoder Set Digitrax Address 103 (NMRA Address 99) to Aspect 0.
Extended Accessory Decoder Set Digitrax Address 102 (NMRA Address 98) to Aspect 1.
Extended Accessory Decoder Set Digitrax Address 100 (NMRA Address 96) to Aspect 1.
Note: ?The signal masts refer to the signal head user names. ?This makes the change to the signal head connection transparent.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Saturday, September 07, 2024 7:30 AM
Good morning, Dave
?
Thank you again for your thoughts.
I am using an SE74 and only have physical signals at four locations.?
I read on another post that all of the turnouts should be set up even though they don't physically have signal masts.?
I changed all the signal masts last night and still have the same original problem. I started working on turnout 01 and it has the same problem.?
I do have sectors established so I will need to correct those but nothing further.?
Also using BDL168, PR4, DCS52, 2DS64, 2DS74 all Kato track and turnouts, Digitrax signals.?
I hope this helps.?
Best
Ken
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Hi Dave
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You are correct that the base address is 100.?
I am not at home until tomorrow but I am excited to try your suggestion.?
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Best
KenF in Ecuador
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Hi Dave
I got the switch to show output on and output off but where does the extended accessory decoder set originate from? I didn't understand that and nothing changed on the signals.?
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Best
KenF
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On 9/8/2024 5:38 PM, Ken Fordham wrote: *Hi Dave*
I got the switch to show output on and output off but where does the extended accessory decoder set originate from? I didn't understand that and nothing changed on the signals. The NMRA "Extended Accessory Decoder" is defined by NMRA "Standard 9.2.1". Extended Accesory Decoders _typically_ use this for conveying an "signal aspect" for a "signal mast" or for a "signal head", depending on how the Extented Accessory Decoder is built. The "Extended Accessory Decoder" has a _separate_ "addressing space" from "mobile decoder"s (i.e. loco decoder addressing). And it has a _separate_ "address space" from "basic accessory decoder"s (i.e. switch addressing). In JMRI, the "Extended addressing space" has not been defined as a "Bean" like a "Turnout" or a "Switch" or a "Reporter" or ... But JMRI _does_ support its use for controlling Signal Mast "aspects", or Signal Head "aspects", on those DCC systems which can support a way to send an appropriate "NMRA Packet" to the DCC track signal. And some systems can support the "Extended Accessory decoder" mechanisms while the DCC track signal _may or may not_ be used. As an example, LocoNet can be one of those. A LocoNet message can convey a the NMRA Extended Accessory "packet" _directly_ to a LocoNet device which implements the NMRA Extended Accessory functionality, without needing to pass the "packet" to the DCC Track signal. The Digitrax SE74 can do this - it can pay attention to LocoNet messages that control the SE74's signals via the NMRA Extended Accessory "aspect" information. Even when the command station's track output is _turned off_... Regards, Billybob
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Hi
Thanks for that great explanation. So it would seem that I have the right equipment for the signal system and I have made the changes that have been suggested.
I think I am missing something because my signals still don't function.?
Best
KenF in Ecuador
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Ken,
To use the JMRI "DCC Signal Decoder" option for signal heads, you have to change the SE74 configuration.
On the JMRI side you create the signal heads with addresses based on the SE74 address range.
I created four signal heads for LT1 using addresses 100 to 103 without user names. ?Then I moved the user names from the SE8C versions of the signal heads. ?Since the signal masts referred to the signal heads by user name, no changes were required to the signal masts.
Since I don't have any hardware, I use the LocoNet Simulator connection.
Based on my understanding of the SE74 manual, you need to follow the steps in section 2.1.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] SML signal mast problem #sml
Date: Sunday, September 08, 2024 4:38 PM
Hi Dave
I got the switch to show output on and output off but where does the extended accessory decoder set originate from? I didn't understand that and nothing changed on the signals.?
?
Best
KenF
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Hi
Ok I did that and my screens looked just like yours. I changed the op switch on the SE74 as advised. I copied the user names from the signal head list for all of the signal heads in Switch one.
Unfortunately I don't have a DT602 so I can't get the little screen they show. Is there another way to see that screen to change the heads??
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