Re: Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
Steve,
Direction sensors are required for signal heads/SSL.
Direction sensors are optional for signal masts and SML. ?From my point of view, they are generally used to implement APB (absolute permissive block) signaling.
When you generate SML based sections, the SML and Section are related. ?Transits can start or end with a block based section (such as leaving a yard), but the other sections have to be SML based sections. ?This is why your block based section for Central causes the SML to display Stop when allocated. ?The "linkage" is missing.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
Date: Sunday, April 06, 2025 1:11 PM
Dave,
?
Some additional information...
?
I know you advised making each block a separate section. I originally did that but couldn't understand how to create the direction sensors so I deleted and went back to auto-generated.
?
Auto-gen combines blocks based on my mast and there's no way to create a mast for the next block since it's attached to the turnout.
?
So I manually created a separate section with just Central block.
?
Steve
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Re: Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
Dave,
?
Some additional information...
?
I know you advised making each block a separate section. I originally did that but couldn't understand how to create the direction sensors so I deleted and went back to auto-generated.
?
Auto-gen combines blocks based on my mast and there's no way to create a mast for the next block since it's attached to the turnout.
?
So I manually created a separate section with just Central block.
?
Steve
|
Re: Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
I wouldn't be able to make it without this group.
?
|
Re: Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
Steve,
I suspect that there is a SML issue when Dispatcher sets the turnouts. ?If you upload the xml file we take a closer look.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: [jmriusers] Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
Date: Sunday, April 06, 2025 12:33 PM
I have a simple 3 train yard connected to another block with several turnouts as below
My desire is to have a train leave the yard then run another transit continuously.
?
Since a continuous transit requires first/last section to be the same it seems this requires two transits. I thought I could create a transit to start in BY1 and end in Central then chain to the next transit.
?
My problem is with the leaving yard transit (which is terminate when done for testing). As soon as it allocates the Central section, the mast turns red/red and the train never moves. If I click the mast green the train moves and stops in Central as expected.
?
So, how can I make this to allow move train out automatically after allocation?
?
|
Help understanding Dispatcher/Transit
I have a simple 3 train yard connected to another block with several turnouts as below
My desire is to have a train leave the yard then run another transit continuously.
?
Since a continuous transit requires first/last section to be the same it seems this requires two transits. I thought I could create a transit to start in BY1 and end in Central then chain to the next transit.
?
My problem is with the leaving yard transit (which is terminate when done for testing). As soon as it allocates the Central section, the mast turns red/red and the train never moves. If I click the mast green the train moves and stops in Central as expected.
?
So, how can I make this to allow move train out automatically after allocation?
?
|
Re: Signal Controller Board Suggestions
On 4/6/2025 10:43 AM, Dave Sand wrote: Randall,
It sounds like the NCE "Light-It" meets your requirement. ?It uses signal head decoder commands from the DCC bus. (If you do not mind a signal decoder that might not get its signal aspects/indications when needed... I woud not want that, so I would not use any signaling solution which requires getting information from the DCC track bus.)
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Re: Signal Controller Board Suggestions
Randall,
It sounds like the NCE "Light-It" meets your requirement. ?It uses signal head decoder commands from the DCC bus.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Signal Controller Board Suggestions
Date: Sunday, April 06, 2025 3:03 AM
Thank you Ken - my system is a NCE system so ideally searching for an NCE based result.? I see the link provided for 6 road yard and in that the NCE option implementing a local Loconet.? Not sure I want this option!
Anyone with a NCE based option?
ArCoMoRa looks like an option, using this already to switch servos very successfully. Anyone with experience with implementing this with Signals?
?
Regards
Randall?
|
Don, if I have understood your problem correctly, then your locomotive runs after a decoder reset, but if you write your previously used CVs saved in DecoderPro back into the reset decoder, the locomotive no longer runs?
Yes, there may be CVs in the decoder that cannot be displayed with DecoderPro and therefore cannot be read or written. The CVs used are defined in the corresponding decoder template.
To analyze your problem above, perform a decoder reset and then compare your saved CVs with the values in the decoder. You must check all the different CV values and evaluate them using the decoder documentation. Then you should be able to find the cause.
Uli
?
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Re: Signal Controller Board Suggestions
Randal, ? The problem is a true signal product for the NCE system doesn’t exist. You could use a Switch 8 to drive lamps. But all NCE system users that go for signaling go for a separate system for that need. Like LCC or CMRI is a big favorite and some use a standalone LocoNet. A lot depends on if you just need a few signals or are doing the whole layout. ? -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
? ?
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Re: JMRI and LogicX driving Signals
#signals
Hi Ken
?
Apologies I missed the details...
?
My System is an NCE PowerPro, and I drive the layout from JMRI, I have a ladder with 6 roads all controlled by Tortious machines.? I switch the roads to the 'main' via LogicX and display the selected load on the JMRI panel with a 'light'.? The ladder includes two x three-way turnouts.? All very successful.?
?
I do have three Arduino's running ArCoMoRa that are used to run servo's and switch the frog elsewhere on the layout.? Also very successful.
?
Further thought today says that if I set the LogicX to switch an address - and use just the relay side then that way I can switch the power to the Leds as the last step in the LocicX.??
* yet to try it!!!!
?
Any thoughts and other options most welcome.
Randall
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Re: Signal Controller Board Suggestions
Thank you Ken - my system is a NCE system so ideally searching for an NCE based result.? I see the link provided for 6 road yard and in that the NCE option implementing a local Loconet.? Not sure I want this option!
Anyone with a NCE based option?
ArCoMoRa looks like an option, using this already to switch servos very successfully. Anyone with experience with implementing this with Signals?
?
Regards
Randall?
|
Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Bad idea: Flatpak will create the desktop entries with icons.
And Flatpak run itself the applications in an isolated environment. User
should not run outside of flatpak the JMRI applications installed by
Flatpak. It must be started from the desktop entries. Or, if the user
really really want, with the command line "flatpak run --command".
"Dave Sand" <ds@...> writes:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dave,
Once you find the JMRI install location, you can run "./CreateJmriApps.sh -d" to create the desktop icons and start menu entries.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
From: "Sandpiper via groups.io" <sandpiper270.dm@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Date: Saturday, April 05, 2025 10:26 PM
I just tried the flatpak. I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3. The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file.
After downloading the flatpak to my download folder, I tried to right click it to install it. There was no program associated with it to install it,
even though I have flatpaks installed on my system. I asked chatGPT how to install it, and got some directions on how to open a terminal
window, navigate to where the download file was, and then install it. After some fussing, I was able to do that. I didn't get any indication that it
worked, but doing 'flatpak list', I was able to see it was installed.
There was nothing in the Start menu that would let me run it. I didn't know where it would be on my system, since I am not used to manually
dealing with flatpaks. Using 'which JMRI', or any other name I could think of, did not show anything like that installed. ChatGPT told me that if
I ran 'flatpak run org.jmri.JMRI' in a terminal window, then it would run. When I did that, DecoderPro opened up. I never use DecoderPro,
always use PanelPro. I didn't see any way to make it open to that.
I finally found where on my system it was installed. It was in my home directory at ~
/.local/share/flatpak/app/org.jmri.JMRI/current/active/files/share/JMRI. By navigating there with the Nemo file manager, I found PanelPro and
DecoderPro, and could start them.
That is my experience, it was a bit painful. Much easier to just install the java that you want, and also JMRI. Assuming the flatpak can be made
to 'just work' for the install, I would think for the new user, it will fail to connect to an external DCC system, such as the NCE PowerCab I have
here at the laptop, because JMRI isn't a member of the dialout group.
Dave Morgan
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Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Hello. Flatpak packager here.
# Installation and usage of JMRI Flatpak on Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3
So, I have tested on a fresh installation of Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3
and I can confirm that the system do not know what to do with the
Flatpak bundle file.
Which is strange, because the application manager of Mint Cinammon 21.3
can install Flatpak package from Flathub. So, I guess the installation
on this version of Mint would not require the terminal when JMRI would
be on Flathub.
But after installing the Flatpak bundle of JMRI, I can now start the
different JMRI applications from the start menu of Mint. I just searched
"JMRI" and I can see the applications and launch them.
So, on Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3:
* The installation is a bit rough, due to Linux Mint, I will open a bug
report about it
* It would be "1 click button" to install when JMRI would be on Flathub
* After installation, you can launch the applications from the Start
menu
* I could successfully uninstall JMRI from the application manager of
Mint.
# Installation and usage of JMRI Flatpak on Linux Mint Cinammon 22.1
I also tested with the latest version I can found of Linux Mint
Cinammon: 22.1
This version of Mint still did not recognize the .flatpak file. I still
could install other Flatpak application with the application manager.
Installation of JMRI on Mint would not need the terminal when JMRI
would be published on Flathub.
After installation of JMRI, I could also launch the JMRI applications
from the Start menu.
But I couldn't uninstall JMRI from the application manager: It didn't
found JMRI. Another bug report to open to Mint.
# Launching the JMRI applications
Flatpak is not only a archive containing the applications: It run the
applications in an isolated environment.
You are not supposed to go on the installation directory and run the
applications from there.
You must start the applications from the Start menu.
And if you really really want to use the command line:
/usr/bin/flatpak run --command=/app/share/JMRI/PanelPro org.jmri.JMRI
To run the PanelPro. Or replace the "PanelPro" with the application you
want.
"Sandpiper via groups.io" <sandpiper270.dm@...> writes:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I just tried the flatpak. I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3. The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file.
After downloading the flatpak to my download folder, I tried to right click it to install it. There was no program associated with it to install it,
even though I have flatpaks installed on my system. I asked chatGPT how to install it, and got some directions on how to open a terminal
window, navigate to where the download file was, and then install it. After some fussing, I was able to do that. I didn't get any indication that it
worked, but doing 'flatpak list', I was able to see it was installed.
There was nothing in the Start menu that would let me run it. I didn't know where it would be on my system, since I am not used to manually
dealing with flatpaks. Using 'which JMRI', or any other name I could think of, did not show anything like that installed. ChatGPT told me that if
I ran 'flatpak run org.jmri.JMRI' in a terminal window, then it would run. When I did that, DecoderPro opened up. I never use DecoderPro,
always use PanelPro. I didn't see any way to make it open to that.
I finally found where on my system it was installed. It was in my home directory at ~
/.local/share/flatpak/app/org.jmri.JMRI/current/active/files/share/JMRI. By navigating there with the Nemo file manager, I found PanelPro and
DecoderPro, and could start them.
That is my experience, it was a bit painful. Much easier to just install the java that you want, and also JMRI. Assuming the flatpak can be made
to 'just work' for the install, I would think for the new user, it will fail to connect to an external DCC system, such as the NCE PowerCab I have
here at the laptop, because JMRI isn't a member of the dialout group.
Dave Morgan
|
Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Hello. Flatpak packager here.
What problem did you encounter??
The Flatpak version install a .desktop file for each JMRI application.
Then, these applications appear in your desktop menu. From which you can
launch them. It is not needed to run the scripts from the command line.
Or maybe I?did not understand what problem(s) do you encounter with the
Flatpak version.
"Jim Albanowski via groups.io" <jimalbanowski@...> writes:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Linux Crew:
Playing further with my flatpak install...
One hoped for feature with a Linux release is a seamless update of a system.
The flatpak install uses the same files structure for data but I have
a problem finding the "programs" the scripts...? No big problem there
were launcher icons installed in "other" in the start pane but I
wanted to update desktop icons that are easily built in Mint Cinnamon.
The help show files gives me an /app/share/JMRI but that's not obvious
where that actually is... there is no app directory in Home or the
higher File System...
So for me... interesting... but I would ask the developers to get the
install to 100% of the standard we have or not worry about the flatpak
version...
I have several Linux/Mint/JMRI installs that I've gifted/built on
recycled PC's that the easier an update the better... We are generally
talking "noob" class computer users let alone Linux users.
Jim Albanowski
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Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Hello. Flatpak packager here.
The actual installation method with Java require to run command lines
and could still have problems. In the past, I?got multiple time JMRI
telling me that it didn't found the X server or things like that. It's
not a trivial thing to do. Or at least, not for every one.
By packaging JMRI with Flatpak and distribute a copy in Flathub, on any
Linux distribution with Flatpak managed properly, a user could install
it by simply clicking the [Install] button.
For the different architecture support, it will come later.
Best regards.
"Robert Heller via groups.io" <heller@...> writes:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This seems like a "solution looking for a problem", at least for *Linux*.
Since JMRI is in JAVA and requires nothing outside of JAVA's JRE and
installing a suitable JRE under Linux is "trivial" (compared to MS-Windows or
MacOS), I am not sure how truely useful or needful this is.
I can see a flatpak (or similar) for MS-Windows or MacOS, since it appears
that those two O/S's have the greatest problems with installing JMRI, mostly
caused by confusion about installing the proper version of a JRE.
*I* would find a Linux "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI to be far more hassle to
deal with than the current Linux distribution methodolgy of JMRI. Actually, I
expect that the current Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI won't work
on my machine(s) anyway -- I expect it is a x86_64 Flatpak and all of my
machines use ARM processors. And this brings up a *new* issue that will
complicate things: there would need to be *four* Linux flatpaks: ix86, x86_64,
armv7l, and aarch64.
My only thought about "improvements" in the Linux distribution of JMRI would
be the creation of .deb and .rpm distrubutions of JMRI. I realize that JMRI
will never be in any Linux distro repo and I understand why that is, but a
self-made .deb and .rpm with a proper openjdk-XX-jre depenency could be
helpful. *I* could probably help with creating the necessary control files to
help with this, if anyone is interested.
At Fri, 4 Apr 2025 08:19:38 -0400 "Bob Jacobsen via groups.io" <rgj1927@...> wrote:
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Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Thank you Dave Sand.???
?
In looking back at my reply above, I see that I have a mistake.? It isn't JMRI that needs to be a member of the dial-out group, it is the user.? So if that user were just upgrading using a flatpak, then they would already have been a member of that group, and it would work.
?
Dave Morgan
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Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Hello. Flatpak packager here.
Thank you for your testing.
From what I understand, the Flatpak would just be an option. That you
could download from the JMRI website or, later, from Flathub. That mean
directly from any Linux Application Manager, if it use Flathub as a
repository.
For now, the Flatpak package is only for x86_64 because of the java
runtime who is for this architecture. I plan to make other versions for
different architecture later. Or a multi architecture version if it's
possible.
"splasher" <steve@...> writes:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
As long as it is an additional option for Linux users. I run RPi and it is super easy right now to rename the existing JMRI folder and extract the
replacement. Yes, I do have to handle Java separately, but then how often is the Java requirements changed. I would hate to see the existing
process changed and/or complicated by something called Flatpak.
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Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Dave,
Once you find the JMRI install location, you can run "./CreateJmriApps.sh -d" to create the desktop icons and start menu entries.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
Date: Saturday, April 05, 2025 10:26 PM
I just tried the flatpak.? I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3.? The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file.?
?
After downloading the flatpak to my download folder, I tried to right click it to install it.? There was no program associated with it to install it, even though I have flatpaks installed on my system.?? I asked chatGPT how to install it, and got some directions on how to open a terminal window, navigate to where the download file was, and then install it.? After some fussing, I was able to do that.? I didn't get any indication that it worked, but doing 'flatpak list', I was able to see it was installed.
?
There was nothing in the Start menu that would let me run it.? I didn't know where it would be on my system, since I am not used to manually dealing with flatpaks.? Using 'which JMRI', or any other name I could think of, did not show anything like that installed.?? ChatGPT told me that if I ran 'flatpak run org.jmri.JMRI' in a terminal window, then it would run.? When I did that, DecoderPro opened up.?? I never use DecoderPro, always use PanelPro.? I didn't see any way to make it open to that.
?
I finally found where on my system it was installed.?? It was in my home directory at ~/.local/share/flatpak/app/org.jmri.JMRI/current/active/files/share/JMRI.? By navigating there with the Nemo file manager, I found PanelPro and DecoderPro, and could start them.
?
That is my experience, it was a bit painful.? Much easier to just install the java that you want, and also JMRI.?? Assuming the flatpak can be made to 'just work' for the install, I would think for the new user, it will fail to connect to an external DCC system, such as the NCE PowerCab I have here at the laptop, because JMRI isn't a member of the dialout group.
?
Dave Morgan
|
Re: Experimental "Flatpak" distribution of JMRI
I just tried the flatpak.? I am using Linux Mint Cinammon 21.3.? The URL did not start any flatpak installer, it just downloaded the file.?
?
After downloading the flatpak to my download folder, I tried to right click it to install it.? There was no program associated with it to install it, even though I have flatpaks installed on my system.?? I asked chatGPT how to install it, and got some directions on how to open a terminal window, navigate to where the download file was, and then install it.? After some fussing, I was able to do that.? I didn't get any indication that it worked, but doing 'flatpak list', I was able to see it was installed.
?
There was nothing in the Start menu that would let me run it.? I didn't know where it would be on my system, since I am not used to manually dealing with flatpaks.? Using 'which JMRI', or any other name I could think of, did not show anything like that installed.?? ChatGPT told me that if I ran 'flatpak run org.jmri.JMRI' in a terminal window, then it would run.? When I did that, DecoderPro opened up.?? I never use DecoderPro, always use PanelPro.? I didn't see any way to make it open to that.
?
I finally found where on my system it was installed.?? It was in my home directory at ~/.local/share/flatpak/app/org.jmri.JMRI/current/active/files/share/JMRI.? By navigating there with the Nemo file manager, I found PanelPro and DecoderPro, and could start them.
?
That is my experience, it was a bit painful.? Much easier to just install the java that you want, and also JMRI.?? Assuming the flatpak can be made to 'just work' for the install, I would think for the new user, it will fail to connect to an external DCC system, such as the NCE PowerCab I have here at the laptop, because JMRI isn't a member of the dialout group.
?
Dave Morgan
|
Re: Reorienting a turnout without completely deleting it.
#layouteditor
Dave and Ken,
?
Thank you so much, splitting the tracks worked for my needs.
--
|
@_Uli_
Ken Cameron
Sandpiper
Heath @ Human[c]ity Junction