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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
This topic is now closed. If you are having issues or have questions regarding using a specific system with JMRI, please start a new topic. -- Peter Ulvestad Linux Mint 22.1, JMRI 5.11.3plus, Java 21.0.5 JMRI Users Group Moderator ( /g/jmriusers ) JMRI Developers Group Moderator ( ) Tam Valley Group Moderator ( ) Sprog-DCC Group Moderator ( ) Edmonton Model Railroad Association ( )
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Ghost Block (v5.11.4) and Turnouts Question
I am converting all my turnout blocks from LogixNG to Ghost blocks since I was essentially doing the same thing for all the turnouts. However, I have this one short section with a single curve between two turnouts. Docs say "There must be at least one real block between ghost blocks".
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Is that really the only way? Or should I accept it and add two insulators and three feeders into the single section of track?
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George,
If there is nothing else on the panel, delete the panel. ?Otherwise you have to edit the xml file, find the icon entry and change level="1" to "2". ?After saving the update, you can load the xml file using PanelPro and delete the icon. ?Note: Make sure that you don't change the format of the file. ?Using a xml aware editor works best. ?
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: [jmriusers] How to delete Panel background
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 10:55 AM
I created a simple panel using Panel editor and placed PanelPro.gif on it as a 'background' item. Now I can't delete it. What is the trick?
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George
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
All re ESU CabControl,
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I received an email from Lee Ryan at ESU support yesterday afternoon.? He confirmed that the connection listed in JMRI is correct, and that it applies to The CabControl unit as well as Ecos.
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RailCom's ability to talk back to a command system is a marvelous thing, right behind DCC's ability to talk to the decoder!
Dialogs are much better than monologues...
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Thank you to JMRI and MERG for all the work the volunteers do, truly amazing accomplishments.
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Ken Moordigian
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I created a simple panel using Panel editor and placed PanelPro.gif on it as a 'background' item. Now I can't delete it. What is the trick?
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George
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On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 02:11 PM, Nags wrote:
What does catch me out occasionally is Execute on Change vs. Always Execute. The conditional doesn't execute even though I reckon it should have. Sometimes I give up trying to figure out why and just make it Always Execute.
Nags
I was having the same problem. It turned out that I was just not thinking through the logic properly. Once I realized my foolishness the execute on change started working as advertised. In my case I was expecting the If to trigger when the condition became false, but it turned out that that condition was usually false due to other inputs, so that when the input I was trying to catch turned false, nothing happened because there was no logical change to the set of monitored inputs taken as a whole. So my advice is to study your logic thoroughly and maybe you can fix the issue.
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George
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Michael,
Your comment might elicit some eye rolling from the 15-20 NMRA
folks that currently meet monthly to discuss DCC standards.
(including an official representative from MOROP)
Unfortunately there was a rough patch when the NMRA board left
things strictly up to the manufacturers to accomplish. The result
was what you saw below. Fortunately, that was another decade, and
the volunteers and new manufacturers are back.
Dick :)
On 3/22/2025 9:05 AM, Michael Smith via
groups.io wrote:
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John,?
It's not RailCommunity that has a problem it's the NMRA and
that was one of the reasons why RailComunity started issuing
their own specifications in the first place was because the NMRA
was not keeping on top of things!
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Michael?
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Chris
If what you are looking for is the sound level that fadeout goes down to then it appears to be controlled by CV133 labeled as 'Fade sound will reduce volume to' in LokProgrammer. You can see it at the very bottom of Inobu's screenshot. CV135 controls the fadeout speed in seconds, e.g. put 10 in there and it will take 10 seconds to fade down to the minimum or to fade back up to normal.
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As Inobu suggested having LokProgrammer software installed is a great help. In LP it is good to show the CV numbers alongside the name of the setting. I don't remember if this is the default but it can be toggled on/off in the program settings.
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George
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Jim,
The signal systems used by signal mast logic (SML) are usually based on prototype rule books. ?The quality of the implementation does vary. ?SML implements ABS. ?APB and CTC are then implemented with other logic such as LogixNG.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] LogixNG vs Jython performance #jython #logixng
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 5:01 AM
Regarding George's question about efficiency and the observations that followed, I'll add some of my own perhaps practical observations.? I'm addressing the larger aspects of developing a signal system.?
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I'm finally close to having a finished switchable ABS/CTC LogixNG layout control application, that has five controlled sidings, a dozen intermediate signals, and at least a hundred occupancy sensors.? It is controlled by a JMRI-graphics CTC lever panel that properly emulates a Western Pacific office machine, including all the panel lamps and levers and working US&S 506 Time-Code code lamps and recorded relay audio, with proper time delays doing field I/O.? This covers half our club layout, and I'll finish the other half in the next year or so.? I'm using CMRI hardware on a 56Kbaud serial bus to several cpNode controllers in the "field" (layout room) for I/O.? The turnout controllers are custom, and can emulate both Dual Control and Electric Locked switches;? each have 6 I/O pins for control and position/lock feedback.? There are several hundred items in the JMRI sensor and turnout tables, and many in the Heads, Masts and audio tables.? All the signal logic is done in LogixNG (vs. SML, SSL, CTC, etc).? In other words, I did everything with LogixNG.? There are two large graphics panels (the CTC office panel and a "field" monitor panel) and a couple minor ones.
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So, how big is the software?? The XML file is 12MB, which has 250K lines of code in the file (all generated with PanelPro).? I don't know how this compares to other large layouts.? I'm guessing the final build-out will be 50% larger.? I'm using the latest production release of PanelPro and JAVA 17.? I'm developing this on my newer Windows laptop (in SIM mode), and running the layout-connected app on a newer modest Windows desktop machine, both on Win11.?
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How does it run?? It starts on both platforms very rapidly (a few seconds), and runs below 10% of the CPU.? I'm not seeing any real-time lags in doing anything.? I haven't seen any odd behavior in the aspects of the ~50 signal masts over several hours of use during ops, nor seen any lockups or odd System Console errors being thrown.? Not sure why I'd want or need to make it more efficient.? I'm not seeing anything that's a problem, and those I've issues I've reported get fixed pretty quick (other than my request for a feature to clear the clipboard... bump).
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How about ability to maintain this monster app??? That's perhaps the big challenge, even for the developer (me).? While I'm actively working on it and have the full context in my brain, it's easy to do.? On the other hand, if months go by I do forget a lot of how things are being done and where.? To mitigate that I've maintained WORD, EXCEL, and VISIO docs as I've gone along that covers tables, contents, functions, strategies and flows that get me back up to speed.? It also has notes on how LogixNG does things (not always intuitive or well documented online).? As always, a straight-forward elegant design is always going to be easier to learn/maintain than a chaotic undocumented design.? I've tried to be clear and consistent doing things vs. clever and inconsistent.? I think I've used almost all the LogixNG features except for Modules, Sensor Groups and Servers.? Regarding others doing the maintaining?? That's going to be a big lift.?
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Even if a club has programing members, few are going to be experienced in LogixNG.? I've talked to a lot of guys, some railroad signalmen, that learned and are using the original Logix and consider the jump to LogixNG would be difficult, and that the older Logix is closer to the railroad relay logic they know well.? Knowing both (relay logic and programming languages), I'm not so sure the latter is true, but LogixNG does have more "stuff" it can do and has more to learn to get that power.? It has taken months to figure out how to use the "new" features I needed, so they have a point.? BUT, no way would I want to try to do everything I'm doing with Logix.? In the end, learning the features paid off but it was a lift.? Makes a lot of us wish there were classes on this stuff, but in their absence we have this GIO group.? *Lots* of times the regulars on this forum got me unstuck, and I'm not sure what the alternative is.
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Long term viability?? The older versions of JMRI and JAVA stick around, so I don't see big risk in letting a production machine run for years without updating.? This is more like a machine controller application that will work fine for a long time once solid and left alone, vs. something that's dynamically being pushed along over time.? Now, if the layout changes, then that's a functionally driven change.? Our layout computer is strictly offline (standalone) so that I don't have to worry about Microsoft updating and breaking something, which is a real thing.? We also have strict change control since operations is a key part of the club.?
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Nor do I think the JMRI team is at risk of going away any time soon.? The team is strong from what I can see, and use good procedures.
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Alternative JMRI approaches?? I don't know anything about the "packaged" signal solutions to comment.? I do know I'm approaching the signal control points and signal aspects the way the railroad signal department does, regarding input factors and control outputs.? I also have a prototype in mind and want to emulate that operation precisely, both in the field (layout) and in the DS office (CTC control panel).? I'm doing route signaling so don't have a huge set of aspects.? My goal was to have the flexibility to do what I wanted vs. take what the "package" provides (and assuming it has tradeoffs I don't want).? No doubt these "packaged" solutions will get better and perhaps at some point overtake the complex if-then-else digital formulas approach I'm doing.? Lots (most?) layout owners probably don't feel a need for precise control and are happy for all the help they can get with signals... they *are* hard.? From what I've seen, the JMRI team knows railroad signaling, so I'm assuming the "packaged" solutions are going to be pretty good, albeit generic else slanted to certain prototypes.?
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Like everything about a hobby, there are tradeoffs... what makes you happy, and how much time/money you have for a task.? Signals are a big task no matter how you do them and not quick.? JMRI LogixNG is a safe and effective choice small or large, and I suspect the "packaged" signaling solutions will also work fine.
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Jim Moomaw
Portland, OR
- Willamette Model Railroad Club (WMRC)
- NMRA, Pacific NW
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Bob,
There is a comment that I did not copy:
// infer a background icon from its size
This occurs when "dropping" an icon on the CPE panel.
Dave Sand
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----- Original message ----- From: "Bob Jacobsen via groups.io" <rgj1927@...> To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [jmriusers] How is the default layer assigned to resource folder icons used with the panel editors? Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 9:38 AM I think that code dates back to when there wasn’t a way to change the level of something on a panel. It was probably meant to make sure that large, background images _stayed_ in the background. Maybe that’s no longer important? Bob On Mar 22, 2025, at 10:33?AM, Dave Sand via groups.io <ds@...> wrote:
Jim,
I suspect this answers the question.
if (icon.getIconHeight() > 500 || icon.getIconWidth() > 600) {
ni.setDisplayLevel(BKG); BKG is defined as level 1.
— Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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I think that code dates back to when there wasn’t a way to change the level of something on a panel. It was probably meant to make sure that large, background images _stayed_ in the background. Maybe that’s no longer important? Bob On Mar 22, 2025, at 10:33?AM, Dave Sand via groups.io <ds@...> wrote:
Jim,
I suspect this answers the question.
if (icon.getIconHeight() > 500 || icon.getIconWidth() > 600) {
ni.setDisplayLevel(BKG); BKG is defined as level 1.
— Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Panel selection doesn't work
#rpi
Pi 5 with bookworm, Java 17 and JMRI 5.10.? JMRI Panels have an item called Windows in the title bar.? When clicking on this item a drop own opens listing all the active JMRI panels.? Clicking on a panel name should bring that Panel to the foreground and mark it as the active panel but in the configuration listed nothing happens when clicking on a panel name.? There are? no messages in the system log.
Dale Gloer
Jack of all trades at home and Southern Alberta Model Railway
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Linking labels not working
Running a Pi5 with bookworm, Java 17 and JMRI 5.10.? I have several panels with linking labels that link to other panels.? These have worked for years over many releases of the OS and JMRI but in the current one described they do not work.? When clicking on a label nothing happens and there are no errors in the system log.
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Dale Gloer
Jack of all trades at home and Southern Alberta Model Railway
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Jim,
I suspect this answers the question.
??????????????? if (icon.getIconHeight() > 500 || icon.getIconWidth() > 600) {
??????????????????? ni.setDisplayLevel(BKG);
BKG is defined as level 1.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: [jmriusers] How is the default layer assigned to resource folder icons used with the PanelPro panel editors?
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 6:47 AM
Normally GIF objects I create and add using CPE are higher than 1.? I recently created a large transparent GIF to cover a panel, and which I wanted to set to a level # above background objects and lamps I don't want to change with mouse-clicks, and below controls I do want to operate.? However, when I added the icon I couldn't manipulate it with CPE.? It dragged over but then disappeared.? By jumping to PE I could see it was set to layer 1 like CTC plates, and where I could set it higher than 1 so I can manipulate it with CPE which I normally use.
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Which raises the question... how is the layer number assigned to icons placed in resource icon folders?? Why was this GIF set at 1 while the others are not?? Is this something I can change when creating GIF or after loaded in folder?
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Jim Moomaw
Portland, OR
- Willamette Model Railroad Club (WMRC)
- NMRA, Pacific NW
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
John,?
It's not RailCommunity that has a problem it's the NMRA and that was one of the reasons why RailComunity started issuing their own specifications in the first place was because the NMRA was not keeping on top of things!
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Michael?
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Michael,
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I admire the work you put in for MERG members in translation. It would seem maybe the railcommunity may need to come to terms and have their documents in English rather than just German. Then perhaps the main player will adopt them sooner than later.
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Since TCS and now MRC are going into RailCom, I think the understanding and interest in RailCom is going to grow in the US. But just like the adoption of LCC, it will take a while. As more products becomes available in the US, more users will get more understanding etc.… ? At some point that will include some willing AND able to help keep the NMRA involved. Right now, I suspect the number of people who feel comfortable with the technology are way too busy with what they are doing either with RailCom or other technology. ? -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
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There's another approach...
The one area where the DecoderPro/Lok programming goes into the weeds is the sound slots. They aren't always the same. If there's a listed project it's documentation contains the list of the sound in what slot, then it's easy (well easier) to use the stock Lok programming in JMRI.
Hard to explain without the programmer open...
I have a wide screen display might be interesting to see how the two app approach would work with both up on the screen... no note taking...
Jim Albanowski
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Dick,
It was not a cheap shot at the NMRA as you put it. The fact that the RailCommunity’s RailCom spec. RCN-217 is the fastest changing and largest spec. out of all the DCC specifications and needs updating for the user’s sake. For your information I was contacted some time back by a NMRA member apparently part of the team updating the NMRA’s version of the RailCom spec., he requested a copy of the latest English version of RCN-217 which I duly provided him with (so they have an English copy) and was told they would keep in contact, never heard from him since.
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To clarify my position in all this, I’m a member of Merg and have taken ALL the RailCommunity’s ??DCC specifications and translated them into English, and keep them up to date. I’m a totally non-paid volunteer and have made all these DCC specs. available to the Merg membership only through their website. So, if Merg can do it the NMRA should be able to as well. If you wish to read the latest DCC specs. join Merg.
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I’m not sure that it’s a problem of unpaid manpower more the interest in RailCom. I have been involved in the bidirectional element of DCC for quite sometime now and it seems that the North American market doesn’t want to know about RailCom. Digitrax has quite a large hold on the DCC market over there and promote their own Transponding system which is not NMRA compliant and is incompatible with RailCom which is compliant.
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jmri is the poorer without RailCom and the required hardware is cheap, simple and many decoder have the option built in already. ???
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Normally GIF objects I create and add using CPE are higher than 1.? I recently created a large transparent GIF to cover a panel, and which I wanted to set to a level # above background objects and lamps I don't want to change with mouse-clicks, and below controls I do want to operate.? However, when I added the icon I couldn't manipulate it with CPE.? It dragged over but then disappeared.? By jumping to PE I could see it was set to layer 1 like CTC plates, and where I could set it higher than 1 so I can manipulate it with CPE which I normally use.
?
Which raises the question... how is the layer number assigned to icons placed in resource icon folders?? Why was this GIF set at 1 while the others are not?? Is this something I can change when creating GIF or after loaded in folder?
?
--
Jim Moomaw
Portland, OR
- Willamette Model Railroad Club (WMRC)
- NMRA, Pacific NW
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Peter Ulvestad
Ken Moordigian
George Hofmann
Bob Jacobsen
Dale Gloer
Ken Cameron