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Re: How is the default layer assigned to resource folder icons used with the panel editors? #controlpaneleditor #paneleditor

 

" ? // infer a background icon from its size "
?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense based on observation.?? It's the 'not expecting that to happen' thing that caught me out.?
?
"importance of background images staying in place..."
?
I'd say that's still important.? The "danger" of grabbing and moving those Lvl1 objects in PE is a downside of that editor (esp with no Ctrl-Z rescue);? that's not an issue for CPE, but also means CPE is useless for Lvl1 stuff.? An OK tradeoff in my eyes.? CPE works fine for most tasks, but then I forget about needing that "special" Lvl1 PE tool since I don't use it much.
?
--
Jim Moomaw
Portland, OR
- Willamette Model Railroad Club (WMRC)
- NMRA, Pacific NW
Re: Next jmri non test version

 

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If people don't download and test the test versions, then when the release happens, it is untested software....

If there's a new feature you want to use, then try the test version.? ?If it works, great! (please tell people it does what you need).? ? If there's a problem, report the problem and someone can address it.? ?No problem reports, and any problem will still be there in the production release.?

And, you'll be waiting until June to find those bugs...


- Nigel



------ Original Message ------
Date 22/03/2025 17:22:10
Subject [jmriusers] Next jmri non test version

we need 5.11.2 to use ghosts.
i dont like downloading test versions.
when will the next non test version expected to be available?
?
also after reaching 5.10 why wasnt the next non test version 6.0?
?
tony
Re: Next jmri non test version

 

On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 11:22 AM, AD wrote:


when will the next non test version expected to be available?
Production releases are approximately every 6 months (June and December).

also after reaching 5.10 why wasn't the next non test version 6.0?
The only time the first digit is increased is when there is a major change to JMRI, such as the move from Java 8 to 11 for example.

--
Peter Ulvestad
Linux Mint 22.1, JMRI 5.11.3plus, Java 21.0.5
JMRI Users Group Moderator ( /g/jmriusers )
JMRI Developers Group Moderator ( )
Tam Valley Group Moderator ( )
Sprog-DCC Group Moderator ( )
Edmonton Model Railroad Association ( )
Re: Next jmri non test version

 

Note the production releases are even numbers.
Re: Ghost Block (v5.11.4) and Turnouts Question

 

Dave Sand <How short is "short"?>
Less than 9 inches. Train wouldn't disappear.
?
Tony & Dave <both switches and the track between them a single ghost block>
That's my current with LogixNG which looks at all connected and sets internal sensor. I'm new to this and don't yet have resistor wheels but it's planned for at least head and tail. I have issues with knowing when to go inactive since the next block on either side is a long one. The logic is not practical. This conversation has made me realize making that a short block would enhance the signaling reliability. (Still have a lot to learn.)
Re: Next jmri non test version

 

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For your second question, I’m not sure why you think it SHOULD have been 6.0??

Are you reading something into “5.10” that I’m missing??

Phil G

On 22 Mar 2025, at 17:22, AD via groups.io <bklyns_baseball_club@...> wrote:

?
we need 5.11.2 to use ghosts.
i dont like downloading test versions.
when will the next non test version expected to be available?
?
also after reaching 5.10 why wasnt the next non test version 6.0?
?
tony
Next jmri non test version

 

we need 5.11.2 to use ghosts.
i dont like downloading test versions.
when will the next non test version expected to be available?
?
also after reaching 5.10 why wasnt the next non test version 6.0?
?
tony
Re: Ghost Block (v5.11.4) and Turnouts Question

 

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Why not make both switches and the track between them a single ghost block and the only block in a section

Tony



On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:01?PM, stevemac <steveo@...> wrote:

?
<T5T6.jpg>
I am converting all my turnout blocks from LogixNG to Ghost blocks since I was essentially doing the same thing for all the turnouts. However, I have this one short section with a single curve between two turnouts. Docs say "There must be at least one real block between ghost blocks".
?
Is that really the only way? Or should I accept it and add two insulators and three feeders into the single section of track?
Re: Ghost Block (v5.11.4) and Turnouts Question

 

How short is "short"? ?Is it long enough to hold a train without fouling a turnout? ?Do you need signals to protect each turnout?

Maybe both turnouts and the connecting track segment should be one block with signals protecting entry to the block?

Dave Sand



----- Original message -----
From: stevemac <steveo@...>
Subject: [jmriusers] Ghost Block (v5.11.4) and Turnouts Question
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 12:00 PM


I am converting all my turnout blocks from LogixNG to Ghost blocks since I was essentially doing the same thing for all the turnouts. However, I have this one short section with a single curve between two turnouts. Docs say "There must be at least one real block between ghost blocks".
?
Is that really the only way? Or should I accept it and add two insulators and three feeders into the single section of track?
Locked Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro

 

This topic is now closed.

If you are having issues or have questions regarding using a specific system with JMRI, please start a new topic.

--
Peter Ulvestad
Linux Mint 22.1, JMRI 5.11.3plus, Java 21.0.5
JMRI Users Group Moderator ( /g/jmriusers )
JMRI Developers Group Moderator ( )
Tam Valley Group Moderator ( )
Sprog-DCC Group Moderator ( )
Edmonton Model Railroad Association ( )
Ghost Block (v5.11.4) and Turnouts Question

 

I am converting all my turnout blocks from LogixNG to Ghost blocks since I was essentially doing the same thing for all the turnouts. However, I have this one short section with a single curve between two turnouts. Docs say "There must be at least one real block between ghost blocks".
?
Is that really the only way? Or should I accept it and add two insulators and three feeders into the single section of track?
Re: How to delete Panel background #paneleditor

 

George,

If there is nothing else on the panel, delete the panel. ?Otherwise you have to edit the xml file, find the icon entry and change level="1" to "2". ?After saving the update, you can load the xml file using PanelPro and delete the icon. ?Note: Make sure that you don't change the format of the file. ?Using a xml aware editor works best. ?

Dave Sand


----- Original message -----
From: "George Hofmann via groups.io" <george.hofmann=[email protected]>
Subject: [jmriusers] How to delete Panel background
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 10:55 AM

I created a simple panel using Panel editor and placed PanelPro.gif on it as a 'background' item. Now I can't delete it. What is the trick?
?
George
Locked Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro

 

All re ESU CabControl,
?
I received an email from Lee Ryan at ESU support yesterday afternoon.? He confirmed that the connection listed in JMRI is correct, and that it applies to The CabControl unit as well as Ecos.
?
RailCom's ability to talk back to a command system is a marvelous thing, right behind DCC's ability to talk to the decoder!
Dialogs are much better than monologues...
?
Thank you to JMRI and MERG for all the work the volunteers do, truly amazing accomplishments.
?
Ken Moordigian
How to delete Panel background #paneleditor

 

I created a simple panel using Panel editor and placed PanelPro.gif on it as a 'background' item. Now I can't delete it. What is the trick?
?
George
Re: LogixNG vs Jython performance #jython #logixng

 

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 02:11 PM, Nags wrote:
What does catch me out occasionally is Execute on Change vs. Always Execute. The conditional doesn't execute even though I reckon it should have. Sometimes I give up trying to figure out why and just make it Always Execute.
Nags
I was having the same problem. It turned out that I was just not thinking through the logic properly. Once I realized my foolishness the execute on change started working as advertised. In my case I was expecting the If to trigger when the condition became false, but it turned out that that condition was usually false due to other inputs, so that when the input I was trying to catch turned false, nothing happened because there was no logical change to the set of monitored inputs taken as a whole. So my advice is to study your logic thoroughly and maybe you can fix the issue.
?
George
Locked Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro

 

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Michael,

Your comment might elicit some eye rolling from the 15-20 NMRA folks that currently meet monthly to discuss DCC standards. (including an official representative from MOROP)

Unfortunately there was a rough patch when the NMRA board left things strictly up to the manufacturers to accomplish. The result was what you saw below. Fortunately, that was another decade, and the volunteers and new manufacturers are back.

Dick :)

On 3/22/2025 9:05 AM, Michael Smith via groups.io wrote:

John,?
It's not RailCommunity that has a problem it's the NMRA and that was one of the reasons why RailComunity started issuing their own specifications in the first place was because the NMRA was not keeping on top of things!
?
Michael?
Re: ESU and JMRI #esu

 

Chris
If what you are looking for is the sound level that fadeout goes down to then it appears to be controlled by CV133 labeled as 'Fade sound will reduce volume to' in LokProgrammer. You can see it at the very bottom of Inobu's screenshot. CV135 controls the fadeout speed in seconds, e.g. put 10 in there and it will take 10 seconds to fade down to the minimum or to fade back up to normal.
?
As Inobu suggested having LokProgrammer software installed is a great help. In LP it is good to show the CV numbers alongside the name of the setting. I don't remember if this is the default but it can be toggled on/off in the program settings.
?
George
Re: LogixNG vs Jython performance #jython #logixng

 

Jim,

The signal systems used by signal mast logic (SML) are usually based on prototype rule books. ?The quality of the implementation does vary. ?SML implements ABS. ?APB and CTC are then implemented with other logic such as LogixNG.

Dave Sand

----- Original message -----
From: "Jim Moomaw - PDX via groups.io" <JMOOMAW_COM=[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] LogixNG vs Jython performance #jython #logixng
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 5:01 AM

Regarding George's question about efficiency and the observations that followed, I'll add some of my own perhaps practical observations.? I'm addressing the larger aspects of developing a signal system.?
?
I'm finally close to having a finished switchable ABS/CTC LogixNG layout control application, that has five controlled sidings, a dozen intermediate signals, and at least a hundred occupancy sensors.? It is controlled by a JMRI-graphics CTC lever panel that properly emulates a Western Pacific office machine, including all the panel lamps and levers and working US&S 506 Time-Code code lamps and recorded relay audio, with proper time delays doing field I/O.? This covers half our club layout, and I'll finish the other half in the next year or so.? I'm using CMRI hardware on a 56Kbaud serial bus to several cpNode controllers in the "field" (layout room) for I/O.? The turnout controllers are custom, and can emulate both Dual Control and Electric Locked switches;? each have 6 I/O pins for control and position/lock feedback.? There are several hundred items in the JMRI sensor and turnout tables, and many in the Heads, Masts and audio tables.? All the signal logic is done in LogixNG (vs. SML, SSL, CTC, etc).? In other words, I did everything with LogixNG.? There are two large graphics panels (the CTC office panel and a "field" monitor panel) and a couple minor ones.
?
So, how big is the software?? The XML file is 12MB, which has 250K lines of code in the file (all generated with PanelPro).? I don't know how this compares to other large layouts.? I'm guessing the final build-out will be 50% larger.? I'm using the latest production release of PanelPro and JAVA 17.? I'm developing this on my newer Windows laptop (in SIM mode), and running the layout-connected app on a newer modest Windows desktop machine, both on Win11.?
?
How does it run?? It starts on both platforms very rapidly (a few seconds), and runs below 10% of the CPU.? I'm not seeing any real-time lags in doing anything.? I haven't seen any odd behavior in the aspects of the ~50 signal masts over several hours of use during ops, nor seen any lockups or odd System Console errors being thrown.? Not sure why I'd want or need to make it more efficient.? I'm not seeing anything that's a problem, and those I've issues I've reported get fixed pretty quick (other than my request for a feature to clear the clipboard... bump).
?
How about ability to maintain this monster app??? That's perhaps the big challenge, even for the developer (me).? While I'm actively working on it and have the full context in my brain, it's easy to do.? On the other hand, if months go by I do forget a lot of how things are being done and where.? To mitigate that I've maintained WORD, EXCEL, and VISIO docs as I've gone along that covers tables, contents, functions, strategies and flows that get me back up to speed.? It also has notes on how LogixNG does things (not always intuitive or well documented online).? As always, a straight-forward elegant design is always going to be easier to learn/maintain than a chaotic undocumented design.? I've tried to be clear and consistent doing things vs. clever and inconsistent.? I think I've used almost all the LogixNG features except for Modules, Sensor Groups and Servers.? Regarding others doing the maintaining?? That's going to be a big lift.?
?
Even if a club has programing members, few are going to be experienced in LogixNG.? I've talked to a lot of guys, some railroad signalmen, that learned and are using the original Logix and consider the jump to LogixNG would be difficult, and that the older Logix is closer to the railroad relay logic they know well.? Knowing both (relay logic and programming languages), I'm not so sure the latter is true, but LogixNG does have more "stuff" it can do and has more to learn to get that power.? It has taken months to figure out how to use the "new" features I needed, so they have a point.? BUT, no way would I want to try to do everything I'm doing with Logix.? In the end, learning the features paid off but it was a lift.? Makes a lot of us wish there were classes on this stuff, but in their absence we have this GIO group.? *Lots* of times the regulars on this forum got me unstuck, and I'm not sure what the alternative is.
?
Long term viability?? The older versions of JMRI and JAVA stick around, so I don't see big risk in letting a production machine run for years without updating.? This is more like a machine controller application that will work fine for a long time once solid and left alone, vs. something that's dynamically being pushed along over time.? Now, if the layout changes, then that's a functionally driven change.? Our layout computer is strictly offline (standalone) so that I don't have to worry about Microsoft updating and breaking something, which is a real thing.? We also have strict change control since operations is a key part of the club.?
?
Nor do I think the JMRI team is at risk of going away any time soon.? The team is strong from what I can see, and use good procedures.
?
Alternative JMRI approaches?? I don't know anything about the "packaged" signal solutions to comment.? I do know I'm approaching the signal control points and signal aspects the way the railroad signal department does, regarding input factors and control outputs.? I also have a prototype in mind and want to emulate that operation precisely, both in the field (layout) and in the DS office (CTC control panel).? I'm doing route signaling so don't have a huge set of aspects.? My goal was to have the flexibility to do what I wanted vs. take what the "package" provides (and assuming it has tradeoffs I don't want).? No doubt these "packaged" solutions will get better and perhaps at some point overtake the complex if-then-else digital formulas approach I'm doing.? Lots (most?) layout owners probably don't feel a need for precise control and are happy for all the help they can get with signals... they *are* hard.? From what I've seen, the JMRI team knows railroad signaling, so I'm assuming the "packaged" solutions are going to be pretty good, albeit generic else slanted to certain prototypes.?
?
Like everything about a hobby, there are tradeoffs... what makes you happy, and how much time/money you have for a task.? Signals are a big task no matter how you do them and not quick.? JMRI LogixNG is a safe and effective choice small or large, and I suspect the "packaged" signaling solutions will also work fine.
?
--
Jim Moomaw
Portland, OR
- Willamette Model Railroad Club (WMRC)
- NMRA, Pacific NW
Re: How is the default layer assigned to resource folder icons used with the panel editors? #controlpaneleditor #paneleditor

 

Bob,

There is a comment that I did not copy:

// infer a background icon from its size

This occurs when "dropping" an icon on the CPE panel.


Dave Sand

----- Original message -----
From: "Bob Jacobsen via groups.io" <rgj1927@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] How is the default layer assigned to resource folder icons used with the panel editors?
Date: Saturday, March 22, 2025 9:38 AM

I think that code dates back to when there wasn’t a way to change the level of something on a panel. It was probably meant to make sure that large, background images _stayed_ in the background.

Maybe that’s no longer important?

Bob

On Mar 22, 2025, at 10:33?AM, Dave Sand via groups.io <ds@...> wrote:

Jim,

I suspect this answers the question.

if (icon.getIconHeight() > 500 || icon.getIconWidth() > 600) {
ni.setDisplayLevel(BKG);
BKG is defined as level 1.

—
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...
Re: How is the default layer assigned to resource folder icons used with the panel editors? #controlpaneleditor #paneleditor

 

I think that code dates back to when there wasn’t a way to change the level of something on a panel. It was probably meant to make sure that large, background images _stayed_ in the background.

Maybe that’s no longer important?

Bob

On Mar 22, 2025, at 10:33?AM, Dave Sand via groups.io <ds@...> wrote:

Jim,

I suspect this answers the question.

if (icon.getIconHeight() > 500 || icon.getIconWidth() > 600) {
ni.setDisplayLevel(BKG);
BKG is defined as level 1.

—
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...
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