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Re: Decoder Pro problems
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 01:40 PM, Bob Jacobsen wrote:
But this thread, like a few others recently, has completely lost perspective.
So perhaps the moderators (of whom I am not one) should close it.
This thread is now closed and will be locked. -- Peter Ulvestad JMRI Users Group Moderator - ( ) Tam Valley Group Moderator - ( ) Sprog-DCC Group Moderator - ( ) Edmonton Model Railroad Association -
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
No, it¡¯s not a verify. it¡¯s just a read. What ever comes from the decoder will replace what¡¯s currently showing on the screen. There¡¯s really little use for a verify, particularly when reading is so much slower than writing. (We used to have one, though it was called compare) Any doubt what¡¯s out there in the decoder? Just write the values again. Want to know? Read them, now you¡¯ve got the exactly values. Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 1:13 PM, Alan B. Pearce <alan.b.pearce@...> wrote:
I have certainly been on the mail list for a long time, and have dabbled with JMRI, but have never used it to program decoders.
Perhaps this is where some of my misunderstanding is coming from, but the buttons labelled "read changes ..." should perhaps be "verify changes written ...". To me the operation you describe as "Read Changes ..." is a different operation to "Read Decoder ..." as the operation is a read and compare to do a verify. Yes the decoder is being read, but that underlying operation being performed as seen by the operator is a verify.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Jacobsen
Sent: 05 January 2019 20:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Decoder Pro problems
Alan, I think you¡¯ve used DecoderPro for years, but it sounds like this thread has confused you.
Your first two paragraphs below aren¡¯t how the program works, at least if I understand what you¡¯re saying.
When you (the user, a person) _changes_ a value on a DecoderPro screen, it _changes_ color.
There¡¯s a button to _write_ the values of those _changed_ variables to the decoder. (The tooltip says ¡°Write highlighted values on this sheet to decoder¡±)
There¡¯s a button to _read_ from the decoder the value of those _changed_ variables. (The tooltip says ¡°Read highlighted values on this sheet from decoder. Warning: may take a long time!¡±)
Bob
On Jan 5, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Alan B. Pearce <alan.b.pearce@...> wrote:
Likewise, "Read all from the decoder" instead of "Read changes on all sheets¡±?
Because that¡¯s not what it does. It only reads what was _changed_. I always find this confusing - what has changed, the data on the sheet or has something changed in the decoder that I need to re-read it? (same with the similar message for a sheet).
I say again, when you learn another language, you don¡¯t complain that
the foreign word means something different in English so you don¡¯t get it. You need to learn what it means in the language you are learning.
In JMRI, ¡°Read¡± means get data from the decoder and put it into the
DecoderPro file. ¡°Write¡± means take data from the DecoderPro file and put it into the decoder. Once you learn that, everything makes sense.
OK, so before I "Read Changes ..." I need to know that something has changed in the decoder so that requires me to read it ... when what you really mean (based on the explanation above) is "replace changes on sheet with a read", otherwise why else do you need to do a read? The word "changes" combined with "Read" doesn't make sense unless one is transferring changes made on the sheet to somewhere else.
I get the feeling that somewhere we need an "Update decoder with changes" or "update sheet from decoder" to clarify to the non-technical user what process is happening. After all, the easiest new languages to understand are those most similar to your natural language.
Yes one needs to learn a new language, but most languages are at least logical, this "language" has some real weird constructs that are real good at confusing the meaning - especially to those who haven't been involved in the development of the program. There are aspects of the "language" that show a design by a programmer (I don't mean to denigrate those who have worked hard on this programme suite) without thinking about what the interface means to others - don't worry, I am just as bad at doing exactly the same, and have seen the same thing happen many times.
--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
I have certainly been on the mail list for a long time, and have dabbled with JMRI, but have never used it to program decoders.
Perhaps this is where some of my misunderstanding is coming from, but the buttons labelled "read changes ..." should perhaps be "verify changes written ...". To me the operation you describe as "Read Changes ..." is a different operation to "Read Decoder ..." as the operation is a read and compare to do a verify. Yes the decoder is being read, but that underlying operation being performed as seen by the operator is a verify.
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Jacobsen Sent: 05 January 2019 20:44 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Decoder Pro problems Alan, I think you¡¯ve used DecoderPro for years, but it sounds like this thread has confused you. Your first two paragraphs below aren¡¯t how the program works, at least if I understand what you¡¯re saying. When you (the user, a person) _changes_ a value on a DecoderPro screen, it _changes_ color. There¡¯s a button to _write_ the values of those _changed_ variables to the decoder. (The tooltip says ¡°Write highlighted values on this sheet to decoder¡±) There¡¯s a button to _read_ from the decoder the value of those _changed_ variables. (The tooltip says ¡°Read highlighted values on this sheet from decoder. Warning: may take a long time!¡±) Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Alan B. Pearce <alan.b.pearce@...> wrote:
Likewise, "Read all from the decoder" instead of "Read changes on all sheets¡±?
Because that¡¯s not what it does. It only reads what was _changed_. I always find this confusing - what has changed, the data on the sheet or has something changed in the decoder that I need to re-read it? (same with the similar message for a sheet).
I say again, when you learn another language, you don¡¯t complain that
the foreign word means something different in English so you don¡¯t get it. You need to learn what it means in the language you are learning.
In JMRI, ¡°Read¡± means get data from the decoder and put it into the
DecoderPro file. ¡°Write¡± means take data from the DecoderPro file and put it into the decoder. Once you learn that, everything makes sense.
OK, so before I "Read Changes ..." I need to know that something has changed in the decoder so that requires me to read it ... when what you really mean (based on the explanation above) is "replace changes on sheet with a read", otherwise why else do you need to do a read? The word "changes" combined with "Read" doesn't make sense unless one is transferring changes made on the sheet to somewhere else.
I get the feeling that somewhere we need an "Update decoder with changes" or "update sheet from decoder" to clarify to the non-technical user what process is happening. After all, the easiest new languages to understand are those most similar to your natural language.
Yes one needs to learn a new language, but most languages are at least logical, this "language" has some real weird constructs that are real good at confusing the meaning - especially to those who haven't been involved in the development of the program. There are aspects of the "language" that show a design by a programmer (I don't mean to denigrate those who have worked hard on this programme suite) without thinking about what the interface means to others - don't worry, I am just as bad at doing exactly the same, and have seen the same thing happen many times.
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Re: Digitrax PR4 Stand Alone Programming Track Issues
Hi Scott and welcome. I'm not that experienced but I did just go through a similar process. Good job on being so thorough. ?
Make sure you go to preferences (on the edit tab) and set all functions to loconet. Also, make sure that the PR4 is set to controller mode instead of interface (when you are using it as standalone). For both these issues, I found that things cleared up considerably after I installed version 4.15.?
Other than that, I would wait for experts to reply.?
Good luck.?
Digitrax PR4 Stand Alone Programming Track Issues
?
?
I recently entered the world of JMRI and am having some issues programming decoders.? I have listed as much system information as I can think of, the issue I am having and finally the trouble shooting steps I have taken in rough order.
My system.
DCC System:? Digitrax DC210 command station with a DB210 Booster
Scale: N
Programming:? I have two separate programming tracks, both are isolated from the mainline.? One is connected to the programming connection on the DCS210 and the other is connected to the PR4.? The PR4 and the dedicated programming track are mounted to a small board for mobility.
PR4 Power Supply: Digitrax PS4 70W Universal AC/DC Power Adapter with adjustable output voltage.? Originally I used the Digtrax PS14 300ma, 14 Volt power supply.?
PC:? Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i7-2600K CPU? 3.40GHz 3.70 GHz, 16.0 GB RAM
Lap Top PC: Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i7-5500U CPU 2.40GHz 2.40 GHz, 16 GB Ram
Programs:? JMRI Decoder Pro 4.12+Rb6a9bb1, Digitrax Sound Loader 2.0
Decoders:? Digitrax DN163K2 (Kato SD 80MAC), Digitrax SDXN146K2 (Kato SD 80MAC), Digitrax DN163KOA (Kato Alco PA-1/ PB-1), SDN144KOA (Kato Alco PA-1), and I have a couple unknown make and model decoders that were pre-installed that I have tried to read.? I have multiples of each decoder that I have tried.
Problem
I have been able to program a couple decoders but have been experiencing the following issues in no obvious order.? Because the issues occur intermittently, I have not been successful in isolating a specific cause.? Problems occur with both read and write actions.
¡¤?????? A new decoder will not acknowledge using the new loco readback.
¡¤?????? Using new loco read back or read all sheets from a roster entry a Previously programmed (using decoder pro) decoder will not acknowledge
¡¤?????? Previously programmed (using decoder pro) decoder will not acknowledge or run on the mainline, as if no connection to the track.
¡¤?????? Previously programmed (using decoder pro) decoder will not acknowledge but will run fine as programmed on the mainline.
¡¤?????? A decoder will acknowledge and accept programing but will stop acknowledging in the middle of write all sheets or write changes on sheets.
¡¤?????? JMRI will indicated that the programmer is not present or is busy when attempting to read or write a decoder.
¡¤?????? JMRI will fail to recognize the PR4 but the device manager shows the device for COM port 4 working correctly.?
¡¤?????? The oddest thing is, all these problems will cease momentarily and a decoder will read and write but these functioning periods are few and far in-between.
¡¤?????? After attempting programming with JMRI via the PR4, the Digitrax DCS210 programming track reads back No AK (No acknowledgment or No Decoder) when I attempt to program a new address.? I did this as part of the trouble shooting just to see if the other programming track would work.? It works, but not with anything that has been on the JRMI and PR4 programming track.
My Trouble Shooting
¡¤?????? I have tried two different PC, both with the same issues listed above.
¡¤?????? I have restarted the PCs several times during trouble shooting.
¡¤?????? I have deleted the PR4 from the device manager and removed JMRI and have re-installed both on both computers with same results more than one time.
¡¤?????? I have cleaned wheels, cleaned contacts, soldiered connections, changed decoders and even have tried to connect the lead wire from the PR4 directly to a decoder¡¯s contacts.
¡¤?????? I have attempted to read two decoders that I previously programed and speed matched successfully using JMRI but neither will acknowledge at this time.
¡¤?????? When attempting some of the above I will sometimes get flashing and clicking of the locomotive as if it were acknowledging and accepting programming but still get an error message that indicates the opposite.
¡¤?????? I have tried input voltages from 14 to 20 using the above listed power supplies.?
¡¤?????? I have multiples of the same decoders and have tried installing new ones and swapping them from loco to loco with no success.
¡¤?????? I have installed the Digtrax Soundloader program, it worked for one decoder but now is unable to see any decoder I place on the programming track.? Sometimes
My conclusion is that something is wrong with the PR4 and it needs sent to Digitrax for testing.? Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be going wrong before I ship this thing off?
I've shared some photos of my setup and screenshots of some errors if anyone would like to view them via Dropbox link
-- Andrew Roberts
Potomac Sound LLC
PO Box 223
Monrovia, MD 21770-0223
(301) 332-6111
Andrew@...
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Re: Trying to get on top of jython
There are quite a few developers who work via JMRI via Eclipse. The Eclipse support (see ) occasionally has rough edges because Eclipse evolves pretty fast. If you¡¯re experienced with it, though, I think it¡¯s probably a good entry point. Most of the instructions are about working with the JMRI code itself, which isn¡¯t entirely required. You could just include the jmri.jar and work with it as s formal library, but pulling the while thing gets you (a) an environment that a bunch of people know works and (b) easy access to Javadoc, etc, within Eclipse. (Even with Java code, a bit of scripting can be the easy way to invoke your new classes, etc, so that might still be a bit on the table.) Could you remind me of what you¡¯re working on as your first project? I can perhaps point you to some examples and docs that¡¯ll help you pull together a starting point. Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 12:55 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
I will ask for more advice, though. And that is: what's good tooling for me to start out with (on Linux)? I'm familiar with Eclipse, but not so in-depth that I'd hate to use anything else. And what are gotchas with how I set up my coding bit separately enough so that a new JMRI-release slots in nicely and easily? -- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
Steve G,
Some of us read the tooltips frequently. We do too many things to trust
memory all the time. Ideally the tooltip should give a little more data than
the screen shows but much less and simpler than on the help page for the
window.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.com
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Re: Another new user with Mac to MRC Prodigy issues
David S,
One of the simplest way to see if you are connected is to try opening a JMRI
throttle, pick a loco, see if you can make it move. Next is reviewing the
Help->System Console, does it have any lines with ERROR or other
information.
-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.com
www.syracusemodelrr.org
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
Peter, On 6 Jan 2019, at 7:45 AM, Peter Ross <peterr@...> wrote:
Interesting that you used the word "obfuscate" for that (dictionary meaning, "make obscure, unclear, or unintelligible") is exactly my original issue. I know it was not intentional but the fact remains that the present button labels require further explanation when it should be quite possible to make them self-explanatory. My use of "obfuscate" was not referring to button labels. I was using "obfuscate" to describe the behaviour of the groups.io web site where it concealed/obscured my quoted text from SwissChris. In retrospect, I should have used the word "hide". Dave in Australia
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Re: Trying to get on top of jython
Hi Bob,
Those are wise words, I'm sure of it. That's the sort of sentence that usually builds up to 'but...', isn't it? Well, no. Not this time. I'll get out of python altogether, as my way of thinking about what I want to achieve isn't going to change. And when my way and a tool's way don't match, then I won't persist with pressing the square peg down the round hole. And one of the python Zen principles you linked to ('Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch') makes me, as a Dutchman, even more sure that it's the wrong track!
I'll have a good old think about what I do want instead. From the options you mention, which I'm certain aren't exhaustive, but which I'm also certain are the most obvious and therefore wisest choices to make, Java is by far the most appealing. Because I know it, because it's native to JMRI, because others do it. All good reasons adding up to a compelling argument. I think that part of the choice is really already a given.
In a small way that'll mean starting over, but honestly - I hadn't got far down this blind alley and I can chuck it with no hard feelings. Better to find out really early.
I will ask for more advice, though. And that is: what's good tooling for me to start out with (on Linux)? I'm familiar with Eclipse, but not so in-depth that I'd hate to use anything else. And what are gotchas with how I set up my coding bit separately enough so that a new JMRI-release slots in nicely and easily?
I do not, at the moment, think that what I want to do is generic enough to be something deliverable back to the project (I might surprise myself, but that's just the current feeling). On the other hand, it might be handy to have a setup that allows me to chase and fix JMRI bugs when I encounter them. Again, I'll be happily led by your expertise.
[Just so you have an idea about what I can do/have done: Java certified for J5, 25+ years as a professional programmer and occasional tech writer, last 10-15 years exclusively OO (Java and C++), C and (ka/b)sh at guru level up to some 5 years ago - that sort of thing. Retired into B&B business, continued professionally for a year or two on the side until that turned too much into uniquely javascript, which hates me about as much as I detest it... :-) ]
Thank you for the reality check. I think that was perfectly timed. Wouter
On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 at 20:05, Bob Jacobsen < rgj1927@...> wrote: Can I give some advice that¡¯s meant to be constructive?
? ? ? ?Stop with the complexity.? Just stop.
If you¡¯re already thinking in terms of a future with "three separate util-scripts that may import one another¡±, you¡¯re trying to approach this in a way that simply doesn¡¯t work in Python.
Python is fundamentally a scripting language where things are meant to be built up as needed.? In that sense, it¡¯s have a lot of things that make that approach simple, but will (of necessity) make more Big Program Waterfall approaches hard.? That¡¯s a deliberate choice on the part of the Python community:
You can¡¯t change this.? There are ten¡¯s of millions of people who like the way Python works, and Python¡¯s approach is not going to change.? There are hundreds or perhaps thousands of people who use Python scripting as embedded in JMRI, in a straight-forward way, and that embedding is not going to change.
So what now?? Well, there are alternatives:? You can try JMRI¡¯s embedded JavaScript, which might have a structure you like more.? Or you can interface Java of your own to JMRI as quite a few other people do.? You can even write code for JMRI in Scala or PHP; though those seem odd choices to me, people have done it.? Or, if you¡¯d prefer something that¡¯s native C/C++, you should check out RocRail (RocRail changed to a proprietary software license in 2015, from GPL, but the source is perhaps still available by request: ) Or you could write standalone code that talks to JMRI, RocRail or Railroad & Co over network connections.
If you want to stay with Python scripting in JMRI, which for many people is a great choice, you should reconsider your approach.
When you see "it works for this example¡±, that shouldn¡¯t cause doubt and search for further issues.? Instead, that should be followed by ¡°great, I can now move on the next thing¡±.
Large, very powerful Python system are built as sequence of ¡°this examples¡± that are sequentially completed in the simplest possible way (the Minimal Viable Product idea), without worrying about lots of future details (the You Ain¡¯t Gonna Need It principle).? If something comes up later, yes, you might have to redo something; that¡¯s expected.? The idea of Python is to make the first part so fast and easy that you have time for the second, which by the way is also fast and easy.
Specifically, I recommend you start over.? Throw out (or archive) your JMRI preferences directory, your scripts, even install a new JMRI download to make sure that you haven¡¯t gotten any modified JMRI configuration files and scripts.? Then start writing simple scripts that do simple things, one at a time, individually, with the least possible complexity. Forget about joins or importing your utility files or anything beyond ¡°what does this do on the railroad right now?". As each one works, _declare_ _victory_ and move on to the next.
I understand that this is a hobby, believe me I understand that, and that some people don¡¯t like to code that way for their hobby.? That¡¯s fine, everybody has preferences.? If you don¡¯t like Python¡¯s approach, well, you¡¯re not going to like Python¡¯s approach.? In that case, you might be better off picking another tool set.
Bob
> On Jan 5, 2019, at 10:32 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> It does in that it works for this example.
>
> When I think of what's going to happen when my util-script becomes (it is already, I just gave the simplified version that reproduced the error) three separate util-scripts that may import one another, then my mind gives up and I sort of lose the will to live.
>
> What I need to figure out first and foremost is why my original works in Bob's environment and yours, but not in mine. That must be the real key to my problem. As a total python beginner, I am unfortunate in not being qualified at all to begin figuring it out.
>
> I guess I am beyond help in this. I'll keep on experimenting for a few days, but I do need to see myself make some progress soon or, instead of a hobby, this will have become a pain. That's not the plan!
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
> Wouter
>
> On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 at 17:35, Dave Sand <ds@...> wrote:
> Wouter,
>
> I have uploaded two new files to your folder:? test_ds.py and util_ds.py.
>
> The execfile loads the util contents as global methods.
>
> See if this approach makes sense.
>
> Dave Sand
>
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 2019, at 10:49 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > Not nice of me, but I'm almost happy to report that I get an error that I rather like the look of:
> > 2019-01-05 16:45:13,187 automat.AbstractAutomaton? ? ? ? ? ? ?WARN? - Unexpected Exception ends AbstractAutomaton thread [__builtin__$Tester$0]
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >? ?File "<script>", line 7, in handle
> > NameError: global name 'setSignalHeld' is not defined
> >
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.Py.NameError(Py.java:284)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyFrame.getglobal(PyFrame.java:265)
> >? ? ?at org.python.pycode._pyx2.handle$2(<script>:9)
> >? ? ?at org.python.pycode._pyx2.call_function(<script>)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyTableCode.call(PyTableCode.java:167)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyBaseCode.call(PyBaseCode.java:307)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyBaseCode.call(PyBaseCode.java:198)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyFunction.__call__(PyFunction.java:482)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyMethod.instancemethod___call__(PyMethod.java:237)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyMethod.__call__(PyMethod.java:228)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyMethod.__call__(PyMethod.java:218)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyMethod.__call__(PyMethod.java:213)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyObject._jcallexc(PyObject.java:3626)
> >? ? ?at org.python.core.PyObject._jcall(PyObject.java:3658)
> >? ? ?at org.python.proxies.__builtin__$Tester$0.handle(Unknown Source)
> >? ? ?at jmri.jmrit.automat.AbstractAutomaton.run(AbstractAutomaton.java:151)
> >? ? ?at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
> >
> > Maybe it was trimmed just a bit too much?
> >
> > Wouter
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 18:42, Dave Sand <ds@...> wrote:
> > Wouter,
> >
> > I have uploaded 2 files to your folder.
> >
> > It appears to me that the issue deals with scope and how import actually works.? I don¡¯t think it is a JMRI issue.? Most likely something with Jython or maybe how you are structuring your program.
> >
> > miniTest DS.py uses the AbstractAutomaton class to handle the threading.? It does not import util and the method calls to util where changed.
> >
> > The existing def in util DS.py was changed to act as static method.
> >
> > To run miniTest, util DS is run first which sets up the util environment with the util methods becoming global, then miniTest DS is run.
> >
> > This approach works but I am sure there are others.
> >
> > Dave Sand
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 3, 2019, at 10:14 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Indeed, Dave, I have.
> > >
> > > I've now created a WoutersPythonbug directory in ProblemsBeingWorkedOn which contains just three tiny scripts, together showing that there is, as far as I can make out, really a bug here.
> > >
> > > 1) jmriShortCuts.py
> > > Simply prints all the objects that should be predefined according to the following documentation link:
> > >
> > > (it turns out that 'programmers' (or indeed 'programmer') is not present, which is probably a very minor documentation buglet, but masts, the one I focus on, is. So my environment does set it up correctly for me.
> > >
> > > 2) miniTest.py
> > > A main test program that simply runs, in its own thread, my object under test.
> > >
> > > 3) util.py
> > > Totally useless as is, but that's because it has been pruned of everything that could go while still showing the bug. As uploaded, it works, but only because of the assignment statement that creates a valid 'masts' variable. Comment that out, and things go horribly wrong, which they shouldn't if masts were properly preset. Also, edit a signalmast name into this file that is a valid one in your panelfile, instead of EastNorthOuter. I've also included my panelfile, should that be handier to use instead.
> > >
> > > Put the three scripts into the resources directory and run:
> > > 1) jmriShortCuts.py
> > > proving that the environment sets up the masts variable
> > >? 2) miniTest.py
> > > proving that that test shows a validly retrieved signalMast
> > >
> > > Comment out the line that should not be in miniTest.py (masts=...)
> > > Restart JMRI to get rid of possibly remaining classes in memory (that bit me at some point)
> > > 3) miniTest.py
> > > proving that now it does not work anymore, with all the symptoms listed in the file itself.
> > >
> > > I'm using JMRI 4.14 under Linux Mint 18.3
> > >
> > > Anything more I can do to help explain why I think this is a bug?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Wouter
> > >
> > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 15:02, Dave Sand <ds@...> wrote:
> > > Wouter,
> > >
> > > Do you have "import java" and "import jmri" at the beginning of each python file?
> > >
> > > Dave Sand
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Jan 3, 2019, at 5:37 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello again, Bob,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for bearing with me on this.
> > > >
> > > > It didn't go quite as planned when I went looking for the global variables 'turnouts', 'masts' and 'sensors'. Weirdly, turnouts and sensors are there, but masts is not. That is now the only little niggle left. Considering where I was only yesterday, that's a nnumber of huge leaps forward. The error reported is "global name 'masts' is not defined". I can bypass the problem easily by including the following line in my code:
> > > >
> > > > masts = jmri.InstanceManager.getDefault(jmri.SignalMastManager)
> > > >
> > > > but that's really cheating, shouldn't be necessary and keeps the back of my mind worried at what else could go wrong when I continue. Any advice on this?masts = jmri.InstanceManager.getDefault(jmri.SignalMastManager)
> > > >
> > > > Wouter
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 at 20:31, Wouter van Doorn <vandoornw@...> wrote:
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > Re 1) Not only did I think that was the way to do it, I was also (and am still) just building my 'library of tricks' to use in the proper, big script later on. This is one of the stages of learning! I have now removed the join, and made the spawned threads daemons, and that now works a *lot* better! Not only do I now get error messages when I need them (hurray!), the user interface no longer locks up, as you predicted (double hurray!).
> > > >
> > > > Re 2) The line you mention is there. I'll see next what happens when I do not create that 'sensors' variable myself. IF it still goes wrong, at least I have an error message now to tell me where and how I goofed.
> > > >
> > > > It's a lot better already, so thank you very much for the help so far. I'll let you know the result of the test once I get to it, which won't be today, but I hope to find time tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > > Wouter
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 at 20:03, Bob Jacobsen <rgj1927@...> wrote:
> > > > 1) Why make the main thread wait with a join?? What does that do for you?
> > > >
> > > > 2) I¡¯m not a Bash expert, but that looks like it should work.? Somehow, Jython isn¡¯t initializing properly for you.? Are you getting a line like this in the log?
> > > >
> > > > 2019-01-02 11:58:29,512 script.JmriScriptEngineManager? ? ? ? INFO? - python 2.7 is provided by jython 2.7.0 [AWT-EventQueue-0]
> > > >
> > > > When I force an error, I get output that starts like:
> > > >
> > > > 2019-01-02 11:58:41,099 jython.InputWindow? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ERROR - Error executing script [AWT-EventQueue-0]
> > > > javax.script.ScriptException: NameError: name 'xo' is not defined in <script> at line number 1
> > > >? ? ? ? ?at org.python.jsr223.PyScriptEngine.scriptException(PyScriptEngine.java:202)
> > > >? ? ? ? ?at org.python.jsr223.PyScriptEngine.eval(PyScriptEngine.java:42)
> > > >? ? ? ? ?at org.python.jsr223.PyScriptEngine.eval(PyScriptEngine.java:31)
> > > >? ? ? ? ?at javax.script.AbstractScriptEngine.eval(AbstractScriptEngine.java:264)
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 2, 2019, at 8:24 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bob ,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the quick reaction.
> > > > > Re 1: I actually do that in a separate thread - but then the first thread waits while 'join'ing the subthread, so that remains the same problem, really. Do I need to make the subthread a daemon one and let the main thread just go? That would seem to make sense?
> > > > >
> > > > > Re 2: I use 'Run script...' from the Tables menu. If it helps, this is the script I use to start jmri (which should be good enough):
> > > > > =============================
> > > > > #!/bin/bash
> > > > >
> > > > > cd $HOME/JMRI
> > > > > nohup ./PanelPro >>$HOME/Desktop/.PanelPro.log 2>&1 &
> > > > > =============================
> > > > > Everything I log neatly shows up in the file on the desktop. The install is squeaky-clean; everything I do is in the user files area, nothing in the installation directory. VERY interesting that 'sensors' and 'turnouts' should have been predefined...
> > > > >
> > > > > Wouter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 at 15:52, Bob Jacobsen <rgj1927@...> wrote:
> > > > > 1) There are ways to do this. They start off looking complicated, but you have to remember that asking the program to sleep _actually_ _works_: If you do that in the main program, the main program sleeps so that you can¡¯t click, etc.? Instead, you have to hive your turnout activity into a little separate item (called a ¡°thread¡±) which can run and sleep independently.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) How are you running your scripts?? When I run something (i.e. while debugging) from a Script Entry window, the syntax error and runtime error messages show up nicely on JMRI System console window. Perhaps you¡¯re running them a different way or there¡¯s something else wrong?
> > > > >
> > > > > Another clue that something is wrong is not seeing ¡°turnouts¡± and ¡°sensors¡± predefined.? They _definitely_ should be.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Jan 2, 2019, at 7:42 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello scripting-gurus,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For quite a while now, I've been fighting python/jython rather than using it, and frustration is building up. I want to like it, I want to work with it - but it's not making it easy. For now, I'd like to focus on two things that make life very hard:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) A small test script that looks up a turnout (successfully) checks its status (thrown or closed), logs it and sleeps for 0.2 seconds before checking again until it is what I want it to be does not allow me to operate any of my four panels (3x Panel Editor, 1x Layout Editor). The only things that can be operated are the resize buttons on the window and the positioning. So I can't throw the turnout to let the test program complete (the log line appears every 0.2 seconds, so it sort of seems to work). I would have thought that the time.sleep(200/1000.0) would allow me to do things instead of the whole interface being locked up? (BTW: specifically not looking for different ways to do this; I know I should add a listener and make that react, and I will end up doing that anyway - I am trying to understand why the simple thing I'd like to do cannot work)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) When I make one of my frequent coding errors, the result is the same as described above - interface locked up except for the sizing/positioning of windows). I get no error logged. Nothing on standard output or standard error,? and nothing in the console. Zilch. This leaves me having to guess where I could have gone wrong, instead of being able to look at a stack dump. For instance: I thought in my optimism that the variables 'turnouts' and 'sensors' where predefined when importing jmri, so I was happily using them. That caused the lock-up with no message at all. Finding the cause of that took me several frustrating days. I hope to turn this back into a hobby!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wouter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS: using JMRI 4.14 on Linux Mint 18.3.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Bob Jacobsen
> > > > > rgj1927@...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Bob Jacobsen
> > > > rgj1927@...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...
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Re: JMRI Not Identifying Locomotives Properly
Why would be ever be necessary to turn it off? If values are changed, there¡¯s no match, or the wrong one gets picked (if there are multiples). That¡¯s same as now. Am I not thinking of something? Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 3:49 AM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:
That's an intresting notion, but as they are user defined values, it means that you can't trust them to remain constant. Someone might be using them, say, as the date of the last maintenance done to the engine, after which DecoderPro would no longer find it when identifying. Pity, because I like the idea. Maybe, just maybe, it would work with an option in the preferences to turn it on (default: off).
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Re: Trouble with JMRI to JMRI client/server
A LocoNet-USB can¡¯t get overrun without the LocoNet itself being over-run. That¡¯s easier with multiple computers attached, not harder. Bob On Jan 4, 2019, at 2:18 PM, mabooker76 <mabooker76@...> wrote:
The single Loconet-USB at the dispatcher station should not get overrun? -- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
Thanks Dave.
Interesting that you used the word "obfuscate" for that (dictionary meaning, "make obscure, unclear, or unintelligible") is exactly my original issue. I know it was not intentional but the fact remains that the present button labels require further explanation when it should be quite possible to make them self-explanatory.
This is not an attack on the very good work that the JMRI team does, just some user feedback. As anyone who has written instructions knows, the hardest part is putting yourself in the shoes of someone who does not already know what you know.
Regards
Peter
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
Alan, I think you¡¯ve used DecoderPro for years, but it sounds like this thread has confused you. Your first two paragraphs below aren¡¯t how the program works, at least if I understand what you¡¯re saying. When you (the user, a person) _changes_ a value on a DecoderPro screen, it _changes_ color. There¡¯s a button to _write_ the values of those _changed_ variables to the decoder. (The tooltip says ¡°Write highlighted values on this sheet to decoder¡±) There¡¯s a button to _read_ from the decoder the value of those _changed_ variables. (The tooltip says ¡°Read highlighted values on this sheet from decoder. Warning: may take a long time!¡±) Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Alan B. Pearce <alan.b.pearce@...> wrote:
Likewise, "Read all from the decoder" instead of "Read changes on all sheets¡±?
Because that¡¯s not what it does. It only reads what was _changed_. I always find this confusing - what has changed, the data on the sheet or has something changed in the decoder that I need to re-read it? (same with the similar message for a sheet).
I say again, when you learn another language, you don¡¯t complain that the foreign word means something
different in English so you don¡¯t get it. You need to learn what it means in the language you are learning.
In JMRI, ¡°Read¡± means get data from the decoder and put it into the DecoderPro file. ¡°Write¡± means take
data from the DecoderPro file and put it into the decoder. Once you learn that, everything makes sense.
OK, so before I "Read Changes ..." I need to know that something has changed in the decoder so that requires me to read it ... when what you really mean (based on the explanation above) is "replace changes on sheet with a read", otherwise why else do you need to do a read? The word "changes" combined with "Read" doesn't make sense unless one is transferring changes made on the sheet to somewhere else.
I get the feeling that somewhere we need an "Update decoder with changes" or "update sheet from decoder" to clarify to the non-technical user what process is happening. After all, the easiest new languages to understand are those most similar to your natural language.
Yes one needs to learn a new language, but most languages are at least logical, this "language" has some real weird constructs that are real good at confusing the meaning - especially to those who haven't been involved in the development of the program. There are aspects of the "language" that show a design by a programmer (I don't mean to denigrate those who have worked hard on this programme suite) without thinking about what the interface means to others - don't worry, I am just as bad at doing exactly the same, and have seen the same thing happen many times.
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Re: BUG ? PanelPro: endlessly switching back and forth turnouts
May not be of any use, but I had the same problem as I run Railroad and Co Traincontroller (TC) alongside JMRI and it was the settings in Traincontroller that were set up incorrectly in opposition to JMRI. Poor old tortoise didn't know which way to turn. Once I changed the switch position settings in TC everyone was happy.
Reg?
in Australia
soon to visit The Netherlands
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
On Jan 4, 2019, at 10:57 PM, Peter Ross <peterr@...> wrote:
Bob, you need to read the preambles. The button labels then make sense based on what the Help says. You¡¯re trying to argue that it will be _simpler_ for people to read information from two places and put that together resolve an ambiguity that you¡¯ve deliberately added to button labels. You¡¯re welcome to change that on your own copy of the JMRI. The instructions are here ( ) and the file to be changed is java/src/jmri/jmrit/symbolicprog//SymbolicProgBundle.properties (which you can view here: ) roughly lines 13 to 26. While you¡¯re there, note the tooltip text at lines 60 to 70. But there¡¯s no way that we¡¯re ever going to make changes like that. At least five different user-interface guidelines that I have on my desk, not to mention common sense, say that buttons should have names that are sufficient to explain what they do. I understand you found some terminology initially confusing. We have help files, videos, tooltips and other resources to help your understanding. Maybe ¡°pane¡±, ¡°sheet¡± and/or some other noun should be worked through. But this thread, like a few others recently, has completely lost perspective. So perhaps the moderators (of whom I am not one) should close it. Bob -- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Digitrax PR4 Stand Alone Programming Track Issues
Digitrax PR4 Stand Alone Programming Track Issues
?
?
I recently entered the world of JMRI and am having some issues programming decoders.? I have listed as much system information as I can think of, the issue I am having and finally the trouble shooting steps I have taken in rough order.
My system.
DCC System:? Digitrax DC210 command station with a DB210 Booster
Scale: N
Programming:? I have two separate programming tracks, both are isolated from the mainline.? One is connected to the programming connection on the DCS210 and the other is connected to the PR4.? The PR4 and the dedicated programming track are mounted to a small board for mobility.
PR4 Power Supply: Digitrax PS4 70W Universal AC/DC Power Adapter with adjustable output voltage.? Originally I used the Digtrax PS14 300ma, 14 Volt power supply.?
PC:? Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i7-2600K CPU? 3.40GHz 3.70 GHz, 16.0 GB RAM
Lap Top PC: Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i7-5500U CPU 2.40GHz 2.40 GHz, 16 GB Ram
Programs:? JMRI Decoder Pro 4.12+Rb6a9bb1, Digitrax Sound Loader 2.0
Decoders:? Digitrax DN163K2 (Kato SD 80MAC), Digitrax SDXN146K2 (Kato SD 80MAC), Digitrax DN163KOA (Kato Alco PA-1/ PB-1), SDN144KOA (Kato Alco PA-1), and I have a couple unknown make and model decoders that were pre-installed that I have tried to read.? I have multiples of each decoder that I have tried.
Problem
I have been able to program a couple decoders but have been experiencing the following issues in no obvious order.? Because the issues occur intermittently, I have not been successful in isolating a specific cause.? Problems occur with both read and write actions.
¡¤?????? A new decoder will not acknowledge using the new loco readback.
¡¤?????? Using new loco read back or read all sheets from a roster entry a Previously programmed (using decoder pro) decoder will not acknowledge
¡¤?????? Previously programmed (using decoder pro) decoder will not acknowledge or run on the mainline, as if no connection to the track.
¡¤?????? Previously programmed (using decoder pro) decoder will not acknowledge but will run fine as programmed on the mainline.
¡¤?????? A decoder will acknowledge and accept programing but will stop acknowledging in the middle of write all sheets or write changes on sheets.
¡¤?????? JMRI will indicated that the programmer is not present or is busy when attempting to read or write a decoder.
¡¤?????? JMRI will fail to recognize the PR4 but the device manager shows the device for COM port 4 working correctly.?
¡¤?????? The oddest thing is, all these problems will cease momentarily and a decoder will read and write but these functioning periods are few and far in-between.
¡¤?????? After attempting programming with JMRI via the PR4, the Digitrax DCS210 programming track reads back No AK (No acknowledgment or No Decoder) when I attempt to program a new address.? I did this as part of the trouble shooting just to see if the other programming track would work.? It works, but not with anything that has been on the JRMI and PR4 programming track.
My Trouble Shooting
¡¤?????? I have tried two different PC, both with the same issues listed above.
¡¤?????? I have restarted the PCs several times during trouble shooting.
¡¤?????? I have deleted the PR4 from the device manager and removed JMRI and have re-installed both on both computers with same results more than one time.
¡¤?????? I have cleaned wheels, cleaned contacts, soldiered connections, changed decoders and even have tried to connect the lead wire from the PR4 directly to a decoder¡¯s contacts.
¡¤?????? I have attempted to read two decoders that I previously programed and speed matched successfully using JMRI but neither will acknowledge at this time.
¡¤?????? When attempting some of the above I will sometimes get flashing and clicking of the locomotive as if it were acknowledging and accepting programming but still get an error message that indicates the opposite.
¡¤?????? I have tried input voltages from 14 to 20 using the above listed power supplies.?
¡¤?????? I have multiples of the same decoders and have tried installing new ones and swapping them from loco to loco with no success.
¡¤?????? I have installed the Digtrax Soundloader program, it worked for one decoder but now is unable to see any decoder I place on the programming track.? Sometimes
My conclusion is that something is wrong with the PR4 and it needs sent to Digitrax for testing.? Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be going wrong before I ship this thing off?
I've shared some photos of my setup and screenshots of some errors if anyone would like to view them via Dropbox link
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Re: Decoder Pro problems
Likewise, "Read all from the decoder" instead of "Read changes on all sheets¡±?
Because that¡¯s not what it does. It only reads what was _changed_. I always find this confusing - what has changed, the data on the sheet or has something changed in the decoder that I need to re-read it? (same with the similar message for a sheet).
I say again, when you learn another language, you don¡¯t complain that the foreign word means something
different in English so you don¡¯t get it. You need to learn what it means in the language you are learning.
In JMRI, ¡°Read¡± means get data from the decoder and put it into the DecoderPro file. ¡°Write¡± means take
data from the DecoderPro file and put it into the decoder. Once you learn that, everything makes sense.
OK, so before I "Read Changes ..." I need to know that something has changed in the decoder so that requires me to read it ... when what you really mean (based on the explanation above) is "replace changes on sheet with a read", otherwise why else do you need to do a read? The word "changes" combined with "Read" doesn't make sense unless one is transferring changes made on the sheet to somewhere else. I get the feeling that somewhere we need an "Update decoder with changes" or "update sheet from decoder" to clarify to the non-technical user what process is happening. After all, the easiest new languages to understand are those most similar to your natural language. Yes one needs to learn a new language, but most languages are at least logical, this "language" has some real weird constructs that are real good at confusing the meaning - especially to those who haven't been involved in the development of the program. There are aspects of the "language" that show a design by a programmer (I don't mean to denigrate those who have worked hard on this programme suite) without thinking about what the interface means to others - don't worry, I am just as bad at doing exactly the same, and have seen the same thing happen many times.
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Re: Roster Images Upside Down
See the link if and discussion therein. Would be great if somebody wanted to code an enhancement for this. Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 5:58 AM, Mark Granville <mfgranville@...> wrote:
We need to stop blaming cameras/iPhones etc. and look into how to code JMRI so it makes use of the worldwide EXIF Orientation tag standard.
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Marc,
That is not correct. ¡°I¡± is for internal and uses the Internal managers. A simulated Digitrax connection is still ¡°L¡± and uses the Digitrax managers. Instead of a PR3/4 or LocoBuffer-USB, the connection hardware is emulated by the LocoNet Simulator software.
The ¡°Defaults¡± problem was an arbitrary switch to the Internal managers when a real hardware device was not present. If the connection was defined using a simulated mode, then the arbitrary switch never happened.
Dave Sand
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 5, 2019, at 1:33 PM, Marc <forfoum@...> wrote:
And I believe the "I" infers a "SIMULATOR " type connection, in lieu of a known hardware Interface Connection.
This " Internal " is not the same as the " Internal " we were encountering in the JMRI Preferences Defaults, also known as the " INFERNAL SAGA "
which was an internal joke : -)
Marc
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As Marc points out below, you might be able to do this without JMRI. If you want it, though, it¡¯s free and you can download a copy from: You might be able to find other JMRI users in your area who can help you get started with it. Where are you located now? Bob On Jan 5, 2019, at 11:04 AM, Marc <forfoum@...> wrote:
Sorry to read about your wife.
You would need to specify the Command Station type you are using.
If WIFI only is your goal, you may not need to setup JMRI and the whole smooze to get it.
Both Digitrax and MRC offer a stand alone wifi solution that you could use that does not require JMRI, just a Command Station.
I am an 86 year old new member and potential new JMRI user.
I was a member of a train club that uses JMRI to control their trains and layout. Failing health of my wife forced a retirement move and I am no longer a member.
Can you provide me with info on what I need to buy and download
so I can use JMRI on the home layout that my daughter and grandkids and I are now building
in my daughter¡¯s basement. I think it would be fun for the grandkids to control the trains with their phones like the members of the club did.
-- Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Peter Ulvestad
Bob Jacobsen
Andrew Roberts
Ken Cameron