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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 03:55:12 EDT Mick Moignard wrote: Actually, the decoder is not asked 8 questions, one for each bit. In Direct Bit mode, it’s as 16 questions, because it asks whether each bit is 0 and then 1, to be sure of a positive answer for one of the questions. No assumptions here; the bit can’t be assumed to be 1 if it’s not zero, because something could have gone wrong with the 0 question.
This makes sense. Mick – Is this ‘failsafe’ procedure in the NMRA Standards? I’ll try to check. Do you know if there is a command station manufacturer with a lazy coder who made the “if it ain’t 0 it must be 1” assumption?
Mark
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Steve_G, I don't believe in anything "dumb luck". Genius.
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AD, my "virtual" turnout occupancy block is not mired in Logix.
It looks complicated but really simple in either Logix or LogixNG:
- For turnout state closed and both blocks on that path are active then turnout occupied (set virtual block active).
- For turnout state thrown and both blocks on that path are active then turnout occupied (set virtual block active).
- Otherwise, turnout is unoccupied (set virtual block inactive).
Proper timing to satisfy Dispatcher is done in the debounce times of the blocks indicating occupancy:
- Blocks on either side of the turnout are set debounce active 500 ms, inactive 0 ms.
- Virtual block debounce active 0 ms and inactive 500 ms.
The nice part of this is that there is no need for additional detection hardware and the block occupancy doesn't disappear.
And it's as simple as my old pea brain can keep track of.
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The caveat is that all rolling stock is detected.
It's as close to prototype operating safety as I can achieve.
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I have one other standard design feature that really doesn't affect any of this.?
I buffer each hardware detector sensor with a virtual sensor set by Logix(NG) - detect active makes virtual active, otherwise inactive.
I do that so I can simulate occupancy with a panel toggle for testing purposes.
?
--
Ken NYNH&H, Old Colony Division, Cape Cod Branch (1949-1959) Loconet * JMRI 5.11.1 * OSX,Win10,Ubuntu
Blog: ?
Youtube:
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Yes the RailCommunity specs. are all in German but if you are a Merg member they are all available to you in English and all up to-date unlike the NMRA versions.
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RailCom+ is known within the RailCommunity specs. as DCC - A (for automatic login).
?
Michael
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Re: Signal Mast Logic
#sml
Hi,
?
I have everything working now.
Many thanks for your help.
?
Regards
?
Dave
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Nigel
The NMRA is on the case now on RailCom, in partnership with RailCommunity.
Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Actually, the decoder is not asked 8 questions, one for each bit. In Direct
Bit mode, it’s as 16 questions, because it asks whether each bit is 0 and
then 1, to be sure of a positive answer for one of the questions. No
assumptions here; the bit can’t be assumed to be 1 if it’s not zero,
because something could have gone wrong with the 0 question.
In both Page and Direct Byte mode, it’s up to 256 questions, because it
asks 0, 255, then 1,2,4 up to 254, stopping when it gets an
acknowledgement.
Remember the decoder can only say “yes” as a positive answer. It can’t say
“No” and the command station should not take the lack of an answer to be
the end of the question. It will (should!) only pass back an answer on
positive receipt of “Yes” - ack pulse - responses.
Mick
______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!
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Dear Steve
How do i tell the layout panel that the block the switch is in i a ghost block?
Tony
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 20, 2025, at 9:18?AM, Steve_G via groups.io <RailRodder22@...> wrote:
? Tony
Head Only.
This means that only the head of the train can be detected.
You must specify a train length and all your blocks must have their lengths specified.
It works best if you use speed profiles.
When the head of train leaves a block, that block will not be released until the calculated position of the tail is beyond it. The section will not show occupied, but it will continue to show allocated during this period.
?
The very serious disadvantages are that if a train breaks in two another train? can crash into the tail, if the head stutters, stalls or plays silly Bs then the position of the tail is nolonger reliable and another crash happens. It cannot be used for forth and back running. I recommend the use of a remotely controlled power outlet for the command station and boosters, no keep alives, no analog, no resume on track power on, and that a twenty year old in top mental and physical condition keeps the remote control in their hand.?
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Ghosts.
Ghost blocks were designed for those short pieces of track needed to join 2 switchs and keep the block routing table / SML straight. The fact they appear to work for switchs was pure dumb luck.? Do not use with head only. The train must always be in a detected block and not disappear into a ghost.
?
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Re: The future of control and automation - thoughts?
Topics in this group need to be JMRI related and this topic is really pushing that. Please keep that in mind when responding.
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
This topic needs to stay related to JMRI. Some comments are really pushing that.
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Digitrax won't as it would wipe out the use of transponding, who would bother with such a clumsy system. Also there is the "Not made here" problem, they did not come up with it.
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NCE probably won't as it would mess up all their old non NMRA compliant decoders, they don't play nice with the cutout used, it needs to be tweaked to let them run. Lenz has had settings in the command station even back years ago for that.
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Tony
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Re: Anyone Have a Schedule Strategy to Put Long Train Into Multiple Staging Cassettes?
#operationspro
Building on Daniel’s suggestion…
?
Let’s say you would like three cassettes that hold 18 cars each (triple your current six).?
create three staging tracks each long enough to hold 18 cars. Call them RED, WHITE, BLUE for example. ?
Then build 9 cassettes and paint (or designate) three of each by color. ?You will have to break down your train onto the separate cassettes, but then at least it really doesn’t matter how they are blocked since the three cassettes will stay together as a group. ?
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Sorry, but that is garbage.
You cannot get an instance of an object by requesting the object from its class. ?It has to be done using the object's manager. ?The JMRI scripting environments includes aliases for the common managers, such as masts for signal masts.
Signal mast aspects are NOT set by changing the signal head appearance. ?That assumes that the signal mast is build using signal heads which is not a valid assumption. ?Even if built using signal heads, there can be more than one head.
import java
import jmri
signal_mast = masts.getSignalMast("Signal Mast, Table 12, Track 5, West Bound")
if signal_mast:
??? signal_mast.setAspect('aspect name')
else:
??? print("Signal Mast 'Signal Mast, Table 12, Track 5, West Bound' not found.")
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
From: "Canadian Locomotive Logistics via groups.io" <CanadianLocomotiveLogistics= [email protected]> Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Changing signal Mast Aspect with jython #jython #signalheads
Date: Thursday, March 20, 2025 6:47 PM
I have a new love now for ChatGPT....
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# Import necessary JMRI classes
from jmri import SignalHead
from jmri import Reporter
# Get the SignalHead object for the signal mast
signal_mast = SignalHead.getSignalHead("Signal Mast, Table 12, Track 5, West Bound")
# Check if the signal mast exists
if signal_mast is not None:
? ? # To set the aspect, you'll need to use the setState method with one of the predefined aspects.
? ? # Here we set an example aspect. Adjust according to the available aspects.
? ??
? ? # For example, setting the signal to red (stop signal):
? ? signal_mast.setState(SignalHead.RED)
? ??
? ? # If you want to set to a different aspect, such as yellow or green, use:
? ? # signal_mast.setState(SignalHead.YELLOW) ?# for yellow
? ? # signal_mast.setState(SignalHead.GREEN) ? # for green
? ??
? ? # Optionally, you can get the current state to confirm if it was set correctly
? ? current_state = signal_mast.getState()
? ? print("Signal Mast aspect set to: ", current_state)
else:
? ? print("Signal Mast 'Signal Mast, Table 12, Track 5, West Bound' not found.")
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then again chatGPT use code for signal head.... try again. lol
?
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I have a new love now for ChatGPT....
?
# Import necessary JMRI classes
from jmri import SignalHead
from jmri import Reporter
# Get the SignalHead object for the signal mast
signal_mast = SignalHead.getSignalHead("Signal Mast, Table 12, Track 5, West Bound")
# Check if the signal mast exists
if signal_mast is not None:
? ? # To set the aspect, you'll need to use the setState method with one of the predefined aspects.
? ? # Here we set an example aspect. Adjust according to the available aspects.
? ??
? ? # For example, setting the signal to red (stop signal):
? ? signal_mast.setState(SignalHead.RED)
? ??
? ? # If you want to set to a different aspect, such as yellow or green, use:
? ? # signal_mast.setState(SignalHead.YELLOW) ?# for yellow
? ? # signal_mast.setState(SignalHead.GREEN) ? # for green
? ??
? ? # Optionally, you can get the current state to confirm if it was set correctly
? ? current_state = signal_mast.getState()
? ? print("Signal Mast aspect set to: ", current_state)
else:
? ? print("Signal Mast 'Signal Mast, Table 12, Track 5, West Bound' not found.")
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Tom, ? The question is if the ESU command station will work with JMRI. If it does, then you have something. But I don’t recall what level of ESU command station support has been written for JMRI. But if you look at this page, it will help you once your hardware arrives. ?
? Fundamentally it looks like some degree of support has been around for a number of years. ? -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
? ?
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Nags,
The test still occurs, but the issue is what happens after the test. ?A related factor is what causes a ConditionNG to execute.
With the exception of ConditionalNGs configured to run after file loading, most of them are activated by a change to an item in an If-then-else action. ?The default is that items added to the "if" have the "listen" setting enabled. ?A change to one of these will start the ConditionalNG. ?Items that have "listen" disabled will not start the ConditionalNG but will be evaluated to determine the true/false state of the if-then-else.
It can help to separate the trigger events from checks for item states. ?For example, think of a yard ladder with sensor buttons for each track and an occupancy sensor for the turnout ladder. ?The sensor button will trigger a ConditionalNG for the selected track. ?The sensor is defined as "listen" and the if-then-else is "on change". ?When that test is true, a second if-then-else checks for other items, such as ladder block occupancy, etc. ?These are defined as "no listen" which prevents unplanned running of the ConditionalNG. ?This if-then-else is also set to "always execute" since the occupancy might not have changed since the last run. ?When this is true, the turnouts can be set.
For this example, a "sensor group" is used to make sure that only one track button is active. ?One ConditionalNG will run when its sensor becomes inactive resulting in the first test being false which does nothing. ?Another ConditionalNG will run when its sensor becomes active. ?This one will do more work.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] LogixNG vs Jython performance #jython #logixng
Date: Thursday, March 20, 2025 4:11 PM
On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 02:02 AM, George Hofmann wrote:
For example I am not understanding why legumes are involved.
Pay that!
I find myself using LogixNG more and more and I did wonder what the overhead was.
What does catch me out occasionally is Execute on Change vs. Always Execute. The conditional doesn't execute even though I reckon it should have. Sometimes I give up trying to figure out why and just make it Always Execute.
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Therefore, what is the performance penalty of one over the other? I assume in either case it still has to test the conditions.
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.10 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Java: OpenLogic jre-17.0.12.7 ? Windows 10
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Mark, ? It takes a special circuit to get added to the booster to allow RailCom to work and then the circuit that would listen for the answers. So it takes a significant change in the booster circuit. That’s one part they (US mfgs) haven’t had to change for years. The hesitation of ‘don’t fix what isn’t broken’ comes to mind. Since Digitrax has its transponding, I wouldn’t expect them to change. NCE, hard to say, they have done a few things like the new PH5/CS03 but RailCom is only useful to those who also are doing some sort of computer interfacing. ? Only time will tell if the impact of TCS or MRC starts to show up on their radar. ? -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
? ?
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On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:33 AM, Cliff Anderson wrote:
What is important boils down to only a few questions:
- Is the method used easily accessible to the person doing the modification?
- Will it be understandable to someone needing to do future maintenance, as in a club environment??
- Is the result easily understandable to the people running the layout?
- ?
Cliff
Well said! I am trying to get that point across to my club members. We have a complex Train Controller installation that nobody understands. LogixNG might replace part of it and allow for better understanding and maintenance.
?
George
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On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 02:02 AM, George Hofmann wrote:
For example I am not understanding why legumes are involved.
Pay that!
I find myself using LogixNG more and more and I did wonder what the overhead was.
What does catch me out occasionally is Execute on Change vs. Always Execute. The conditional doesn't execute even though I reckon it should have. Sometimes I give up trying to figure out why and just make it Always Execute.
?
Therefore, what is the performance penalty of one over the other? I assume in either case it still has to test the conditions.
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.10 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Java: OpenLogic jre-17.0.12.7 ? Windows 10
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
In addition to the decoders that Dick mentions, it should also be noted that over the last couple of years Trix have announced a number of locos fitted with decoders that have Railcom capability. I am not aware of Marklin supplying Railcom compatable decoders as seperate items yet, but there are suspicions that their newest decoders with the latest firmware can probably be manhandled into using Railcom.
Mark,
You probably will not read this in MR, so do I dare to publicly
post this info about what folks are missing out on here in the US
of A? <G>?
Hopefully it is not too far off topic from the original poster's
question.
Decoder Manufacturers Supporting RailCom:
- Lenz Elektronik – The creators of
RailCom; their Gold and Silver series decoders fully support it.
- ESU (Electronic Solutions Ulm) – Many
LokPilot and LokSound decoders
support RailCom.
- ZIMO – Almost all of their decoders
are RailCom-compatible.
- TAMS Elektronik – Offers
RailCom-compatible decoders.
- Doehler & Haass – Many of their
decoders support RailCom.
- Train-O-Matic – Their decoders support
RailCom functionality.
- Train Control Systems – Some TCS
decoders support RailCom.
- Kuehn – Some decoders support RailCom.
- Uhlenbrock – Some decoders support
RailCom.
RailCom Compatible Command Stations:
-
Lenz – LZV200 (successor to LZV100)
- Developed by the creators
of RailCom. Full support for RailCom feedback and
addressing.
-
ZIMO – MX10
- High-end DCC system with
full RailCom support, including feedback and decoder
programming.
-
ESU – ECoS 2 (50210, 50200)
- Supports RailCom and
RailCom Plus for automatic train detection and feedback.
-
TAMS Elektronik – RedBox
- A lesser-known command
station that fully supports RailCom.
-
TCS CS-105
- This command station from
Train Control Systems also supports RailCom.?
- This system also offers
global RailCom transmissions over LCC for supporting
boosters, enhancing bi-directional communication
capabilities to include booster districts as well.
-
MRC – NEXXT
- I am including MRC in this
list, because their (announced) NEXXT command system
includes plans for support of both RailCom and LCC, even
though it is not yet available.
Apparently some other European command
stations, e.g. Roco Z21, may be upgraded to RailCom with the
appropriate add-ons.?
The openDCC project supports RailCom
via the Open DCC GBM command station.
Do not confuse RailCom and RailCom
Plus, which as far as I know, is not an NMRA standard, so I
suppose that it should be classed along with other proprietary
options.
I'm sure that this info is probably
wrong at some points, so others feel free to update/correct it.
Dick :)
On 3/20/2025 12:48 PM, Mark Granville
wrote:
Dick, Good point about
Railcom and NMRA. As I understand it, Railcom became an RP
in 1997 and didn’t become a standard until 2012. Even then,
the standard underwent extensive revision in 2021.
Why haven’t manufacturers like Digitrax and NCE upgraded to
include this in their command stations? Who knows. I guess
Digitrax doesn’t want to compete with its transponding. I
have used an NCE PowerHouse since 1998 when I wouldn’t have
expected Railcom. I can’t tell from their web site if the
new PowerPro system has Railcom capability, but with a price
of $1K, the TCS system isn’t looking too bad.
Mark
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Ken Heywood
Canadian Locomotive Logistics
Ken Cameron
George Hofmann