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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Mark,
You probably will not read this in MR, so do I dare to publicly
post this info about what folks are missing out on here in the US
of A? <G>?
Hopefully it is not too far off topic from the original poster's
question.
Decoder Manufacturers Supporting RailCom:
- Lenz Elektronik – The creators of
RailCom; their Gold and Silver series decoders fully support it.
- ESU (Electronic Solutions Ulm) – Many
LokPilot and LokSound decoders
support RailCom.
- ZIMO – Almost all of their decoders
are RailCom-compatible.
- TAMS Elektronik – Offers
RailCom-compatible decoders.
- Doehler & Haass – Many of their
decoders support RailCom.
- Train-O-Matic – Their decoders support
RailCom functionality.
- Train Control Systems – Some TCS
decoders support RailCom.
- Kuehn – Some decoders support RailCom.
- Uhlenbrock – Some decoders support
RailCom.
RailCom Compatible Command Stations:
-
Lenz – LZV200 (successor to LZV100)
- Developed by the creators
of RailCom. Full support for RailCom feedback and
addressing.
-
ZIMO – MX10
- High-end DCC system with
full RailCom support, including feedback and decoder
programming.
-
ESU – ECoS 2 (50210, 50200)
- Supports RailCom and
RailCom Plus for automatic train detection and feedback.
-
TAMS Elektronik – RedBox
- A lesser-known command
station that fully supports RailCom.
-
TCS CS-105
- This command station from
Train Control Systems also supports RailCom.?
- This system also offers
global RailCom transmissions over LCC for supporting
boosters, enhancing bi-directional communication
capabilities to include booster districts as well.
-
MRC – NEXXT
- I am including MRC in this
list, because their (announced) NEXXT command system
includes plans for support of both RailCom and LCC, even
though it is not yet available.
Apparently some other European command
stations, e.g. Roco Z21, may be upgraded to RailCom with the
appropriate add-ons.?
The openDCC project supports RailCom
via the Open DCC GBM command station.
Do not confuse RailCom and RailCom
Plus, which as far as I know, is not an NMRA standard, so I
suppose that it should be classed along with other proprietary
options.
I'm sure that this info is probably
wrong at some points, so others feel free to update/correct it.
Dick :)
On 3/20/2025 12:48 PM, Mark Granville
wrote:
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Dick, Good point about
Railcom and NMRA. As I understand it, Railcom became an RP
in 1997 and didn’t become a standard until 2012. Even then,
the standard underwent extensive revision in 2021.
Why haven’t manufacturers like Digitrax and NCE upgraded to
include this in their command stations? Who knows. I guess
Digitrax doesn’t want to compete with its transponding. I
have used an NCE PowerHouse since 1998 when I wouldn’t have
expected Railcom. I can’t tell from their web site if the
new PowerPro system has Railcom capability, but with a price
of $1K, the TCS system isn’t looking too bad.
Mark
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Yes,? ESU decoders support "ordinary RailCom".? The "+" part is additional capabilities.? ? ??
RailCom+ (mostly automatic decoder registration with command station) is part of the RailCommunity standards for DCC.? ?RailCommunity are the standards body for European manufacturers, setting out what DCC does and doesn't do: most of
the documentation is in German.? ?Give it a few years and the NMRA will copy a translation of RailCommunity standard, and call it a NMRA standard....
Nigel.?
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------ Original Message ------
From "Tom Myrick via groups.io" < jmri@...> Date 20/03/2025 17:45:09
Subject Re: [jmriusers] Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 07:34 AM, dick bronson wrote:
The difference with RailCom is that it is part of the NMRA specifications, not proprietary, and it may be supported by any manufacturer. As far as I know TCS and MRC (NEXXT) are the only US manufacturers either supporting, or planning
for RailCom support. That is a manufacturer's marketing choice, and the European companies have chosen to support it for some time. It is probably supported by more systems than not. (at least recently) Note that ESU decoders support RailCom, not just their
own closed ecosystem. The chances are pretty good that if you have a loco with a modern European decoder, it already includes RailCom.
My understanding is that the ESU decoders support RailCom+, which I understand is a proprietary extension of RailCom specific to ESU.? Does this mean that in fact ESU decoders support RailCom as well?? I have recently purchased an ESU Cab Control command
station and am waiting for it to be delivered.? Will this command station be able to read ESU decoders faster than my current Digitrax DCS52 system?
--
Tom
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 06:32 PM, Robert Heller wrote:
DCC decoder CVs cannot be directly "read".
Reading CVs is done via a trick. The DCC command station asks if a bit is a
one or zero and the decoder does (or does not) run the motor a little if the
bit is a one and the command station detects the slight current draw. To read
a CV byte, the DCC command station asks 8 times, once for each bit in the
byte.
This is very informative.? I always wondered why the locomotive motor has to turn when reading CVs and why it takes so long.??
--
Tom
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 07:34 AM, dick bronson wrote:
The difference with RailCom is that it is part of the NMRA specifications, not proprietary, and it may be supported by any manufacturer. As far as I know TCS and MRC (NEXXT) are the only US manufacturers either supporting, or planning for RailCom support. That is a manufacturer's marketing choice, and the European companies have chosen to support it for some time. It is probably supported by more systems than not. (at least recently) Note that ESU decoders support RailCom, not just their own closed ecosystem. The chances are pretty good that if you have a loco with a modern European decoder, it already includes RailCom.
My understanding is that the ESU decoders support RailCom+, which I understand is a proprietary extension of RailCom specific to ESU.? Does this mean that in fact ESU decoders support RailCom as well?? I have recently purchased an ESU Cab Control command station and am waiting for it to be delivered.? Will this command station be able to read ESU decoders faster than my current Digitrax DCS52 system?
--
Tom
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George,
?
After remaining as a silent observer on this thread, at least one observation seems worth floating.
?
"But I wonder, how does it compare in performance to performing the same tasks in a Jython program? Is there any overhead?"
?
In fact there is some overhead in all of the options that JMRI offers for customizing any installation to a particular layout.? In most cases, that overhead is slight, perhaps even undetectable.
?
Chasing through all of the "time used" vs "dynamic memory used" vs "storage memory used" vs "I/O bandwidth needed" vs "operational connivence" or any of the other kinds of optimization metrics is not likely to provide us with any warm-fuzzy feelings.? Nor is it even slightly useful with today's technology.??
?
What is important boils down to only a few questions:
- Is the method used easily accessible to the person doing the modification?
- Will it be understandable to someone needing to do future maintenance, as in a club environment??
- Is the result easily understandable to the people running the layout?
?
It is your hobby, do what you enjoy.
?
Others may have strongly held preferences.
?
Cliff in Baja SoCal
?
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Dick, Good point about Railcom and NMRA. As I understand it, Railcom became an RP in 1997 and didn’t become a standard until 2012. Even then, the standard underwent extensive revision in 2021.
Why haven’t manufacturers like Digitrax and NCE upgraded to include this in their command stations? Who knows. I guess Digitrax doesn’t want to compete with its transponding. I have used an NCE PowerHouse since 1998 when I wouldn’t have expected Railcom. I can’t tell from their web site if the new PowerPro system has Railcom capability, but with a price of $1K, the TCS system isn’t looking too bad.
Mark
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Billybob, Yes, transponding also. But is that another single manufacturer thing? Who else but Digitrax makes decoders with Digitrax transponding?
Mark
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George,
A "bean" is a Java object that has a set of characteristics. ?In the JMRI, most of the table items, such as turnouts, sensors, etc., are implement as Java beans.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] LogixNG vs Jython performance #jython #logixng
Date: Thursday, March 20, 2025 10:02 AM
Thanks Dave
As I am just learning LogixNG a lot of your reply is a bit beyond my understanding at the moment. For example I am not understanding why legumes are involved. However I believe that your answer indicates that any overhead involved when using LogixNG is small or can be made small if programmed wisely.
?
George
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Re: Signal Mast Logic
#sml
David,
Fixing the block continuity errors is required.
You have two choices.
- Make the stub track one block.
- Create a unique block for the back half of the stub track.
This will eliminate the warnings and errors in the system console.
10:11:52,114 display.layoutEditor.ConnectivityUtil WARN? - Neither branch at LayoutTurnout TO8 turnout: Pt_SE6_SdS6 (MT+132) leads to next block Tr_SE6a (ILB50) [AWT-EventQueue-0]
10:11:52,115 display.layoutEditor.ConnectivityUtil WARN? - Connectivity not complete at Pt_SE6_SdS6 [AWT-EventQueue-0]
10:11:52,122 display.layoutEditor.ConnectivityUtil WARN? - Neither branch at LayoutTurnout TO8 turnout: Pt_SE6_SdS6 (MT+132) leads to next block Tr_SE6a (ILB50) [AWT-EventQueue-0]
10:11:52,122 display.layoutEditor.ConnectivityUtil WARN? - Connectivity not complete at Pt_SE6_SdS6 [AWT-EventQueue-0]
Your attempt to add a reverse move signal mast will not work due to the above issue. ?Also, I don't see a signal mast for the reverse move.
Any signal mast attached to a block boundary is automatically included in the SML calculations.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Signal Mast Logic #sml
Date: Thursday, March 20, 2025 4:11 AM
Hi
?
Thank you so much for your help with this.
It is very much appreciated.
?
I have just uploaded the latest exhib1.xml file to the same location.
?
Most issues are now solved but there are still a few minor issues remaining.
?
1. Tools check non-contiguous blocks highlights 6 errors.
Removing and re-adding those blocks does not solve the issue.
It would be good to fix the errors but they do not seem to be causing a problem.
?
2. Three of the buffer stop masts show an unknown state.
?
3. Related to 2. above, i have tried to add a mast at the anchor point A21 between Tr_SE6a and Tr_SW4f (to control movement in the reverse direction into the sidings ) but the SML generated for that mast is totally wrong.
I could generate the SML manually if the buffer masts worked.
?
Note that I am not concerned about the Masts Mst_SdS[1-6]
I will control them by scripting rather than SML.
I have attached these masts to the points in order to place them ( for display purposes only) onto the panel.
Is that the correct way to add masts that are for display only and play no part in SML ?
?
?
|
Thanks Dave
As I am just learning LogixNG a lot of your reply is a bit beyond my understanding at the moment. For example I am not understanding why legumes are involved. However I believe that your answer indicates that any overhead involved when using LogixNG is small or can be made small if programmed wisely.
?
George
|
Re: The future of control and automation - thoughts?
Hi Peter,
?
In addition to the ideas that have already been mentioned, you might want to check out Hans Tanner's IOTT channel. He is exploring some very interesting ideas.
?
?
As has been mentioned, the DCC-EX folks are doing interesting things.
?
Both are using low-cost off-the-shelf hardware components (and using other industry standard communication tools, etc) as part of software-defined products. IMHO this is the right strategy and the one that holds the most promise for the future.
?
?
- John Geddes
Vancouver, Canada
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Mark,
The difference with RailCom is that it is part of the
NMRA specifications, not proprietary, and it may be supported by
any manufacturer. As far as I know TCS and MRC (NEXXT) are the
only US manufacturers either supporting, or planning for RailCom
support. That is a manufacturer's marketing choice, and the
European companies have chosen to support it for some time. It is
probably supported by more systems than not. (at least recently)
Note that ESU decoders support RailCom, not just their own closed
ecosystem. The chances are pretty good that if you have a loco
with a modern European decoder, it already includes RailCom.
By ignoring RailCom the big US companies have effectively kept it
hidden from the US market place. Then they excuse themselves by
claiming that their users don't ask for it. Duh!
Dick :)
On 3/20/2025 9:29 AM, Mark Granville
wrote:
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Heath, As others have
indicated, the LokProgrammer is faster because it only works
with ESU decoders. Kinda like that question you asked about
function labels and BLI. Single manufacturer means special
methods can be used. DecoderPro uses the NMRA method because
it has to work with a wide range of manufacturer decoders. I
have read that there is faster reads IF (1) you have a
Railcom enabled command station AND (2) the decoder is
Railcom capable and enabled. It also allows reads using POM.
Mark Granville
|
Re: Anyone Have a Schedule Strategy to Put Long Train Into Multiple Staging Cassettes?
#operationspro
I'll try a strategy of changing the staging cassettes to a spur pool.
I think it will be an extra burden on the yardmaster, but we'll see.
--
Ken NYNH&H, Old Colony Division, Cape Cod Branch (1949-1959) Loconet * JMRI 5.11.1 * OSX,Win10,Ubuntu
Blog: ?
Youtube:
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
On 3/20/2025 9:29 AM, Mark Granville wrote: Heath, As others have indicated, the LokProgrammer is faster because it only works with ESU decoders. Kinda like that question you asked about function labels and BLI. Single manufacturer means special methods can be used. DecoderPro uses the NMRA method because it has to work with a wide range of manufacturer decoders. I have read that there is faster reads IF (1) you have a Railcom enabled command station AND (2) the decoder is Railcom capable and enabled. It also allows reads using POM. _Or_ if you have: - a LocoNet system, and - Digitrax "Transponding" equipment, and - a mobile decoder that supports Digitrax "Transponding", and - the decoder has its "Transponding" feature enabled, and - that decoder is in a "transponding-enabled" track section, method. In this particular situation, mobile decoder CV reads are MUCH quicker than with "Service-mode" CV reads.
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Heath, As others have indicated, the LokProgrammer is faster because it only works with ESU decoders. Kinda like that question you asked about function labels and BLI. Single manufacturer means special methods can be used. DecoderPro uses the NMRA method because it has to work with a wide range of manufacturer decoders. I have read that there is faster reads IF (1) you have a Railcom enabled command station AND (2) the decoder is Railcom capable and enabled. It also allows reads using POM.
Mark Granville
|
Tony
Head Only.
This means that only the head of the train can be detected.
You must specify a train length and all your blocks must have their lengths specified.
It works best if you use speed profiles.
When the head of train leaves a block, that block will not be released until the calculated position of the tail is beyond it. The section will not show occupied, but it will continue to show allocated during this period.
?
The very serious disadvantages are that if a train breaks in two another train? can crash into the tail, if the head stutters, stalls or plays silly Bs then the position of the tail is nolonger reliable and another crash happens. It cannot be used for forth and back running. I recommend the use of a remotely controlled power outlet for the command station and boosters, no keep alives, no analog, no resume on track power on, and that a twenty year old in top mental and physical condition keeps the remote control in their hand.?
?
Ghosts.
Ghost blocks were designed for those short pieces of track needed to join 2 switchs and keep the block routing table / SML straight. The fact they appear to work for switchs was pure dumb luck.? Do not use with head only. The train must always be in a detected block and not disappear into a ghost.
?
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Crew:
Not reading the entire thread...
If sound loading or modification is a needed function the the Lok programmer is a must and independent of your DCC system...
Gotca is that Lok software is Windows only that might be the bigger issue. Anyone on Linux ever get it running under WINE?
Jim
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Heath, ? I’ve been very happy with my TCS LT-50 using RailCom and LCC to interface with it. I can read LokSound decoders in under 5 minutes that way. ? -Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
? ?
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
Guys,
I have also used a SPROG 3 for many years - never
let me down.
Gerry
On 20/03/2025 4:37 pm, Don Shroyer via
groups.io wrote:
All,
?
I've used a SPROG 3 for several years now as my programming
track interface to DecoderPro. Has been very reliable.
?
Regards
--
Gerry Hopkins MMR #177 FNMRA
Great Northern Downunder
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Re: Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
As others have said, the ESU Programmer uses a proprietary closed method to communicate.?
The fastest route for decoders that support RailCom (includes ESU) via JMRI is a Command Station which supports Programming on the main Read by using RailCom.? ?That is massively quicker than any service mode (programming track) reading of a decoder.?
? There are several Command Stations which do this which are supported by JMRI.??
- Nigel
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------ Original Message ------
Date 20/03/2025 00:17:52
Subject [jmriusers] Best Command Station to use with Decoder Pro
I really like Decoder Pro. But, the ESU Programmer is significantly faster at reading/writing ESU decoders. Is there a command station or other computer to DCC interface that I can use with JMRI Decoder Pro that would give me similar read/write as the
ESU Programmer?
?
It is my understanding that the weak link of decoder pro is the computer to track interface.
--
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Tom Myrick
George Hofmann
Ken Heywood
Ken Cameron