jmriusers@groups.io

Re: Operations: consists and turns #operationspro

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 11:52 AM, Paul Anderson wrote:

I don't need the consist name (as recorded in JMRI) to change. I was thinking more of the locomotive called up on the crew's throttle.

Paul,

?

For the post part, OpsPro is not designed to handle the interaction of the crew with the throttle assignments thereon.? While it can call for engine changes at locations (up to 2) other than the train's origin on the paperwork, it does not (in and of itself) handle actual loco assignments on throttle hardware.? As Keith noted, the NCE system allows for a simple reselection of the now-leading engine number on their throttles (a distinct advantage I will note) but as of today, not something OpsPro will do.? One variant that may be possible would be the use of a virtual throttle being run on the computer, which may then be address-reselectable for the return trip...?

?

You also asked...

Or does Ops Pro simply assign the locos to the train and the yardmaster is responsible for creating the locomotive consist in the desirable order and juxtaposition?

I would say the short answer is that it would be up to you to decide who places power on the train.? The outbound crew could simply find the assigned power, lace 'em up according to the paper work, and go get on the train.? Or you could employ a hostler to do this work.? Or have the YM put together the power and place on the right cut of cars, you know, when he/she isn't doing anything else!

?

Finally,? a quick visual for your work flow for the Polson Turn.? You need a Route that allows for the train to visit the locations and within that route, the work authorized at each location.? I have cobbled up a little example (see attachment) for you with notes following...

?

The blue boxes around Dixon represent place markers so the crew knows the right order of towns to pass thru.

The 1st green box around?Old Agency shows pick ups and set outs, meaning the train works here on the outbound trip only, the 2nd green box around?Old Agency shows no work of the way back.

The yellow boxes around Ronan show the set outs on the way out and then the pick ups on the way back, just for variety.

And the 2 separate lines for Polson (in red) allow the train to keep the P/U and S/O work as distinct, controllable moves, numbers-wise.

?

Again, this is just one possible way to put together the Polson Turn.

?

Happy to help, hope it helps,

PT route.PNG

Re: Help With OperationsPro Routes #operationspro

#235063

Thanks for the help, Pete.? Everything is now running as it should.? Another question.....When I want to go in and make a completely new set of data for all of the parameters, do I go through and delete the information for each sheet or would it be better to start OpsPro from scratch?

?

Doug

Re: Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants

#235062

Keith,

For item 2, maintaining a medium speed between sidings is valid. ?There is no signal indication to run at a higher speed. ?If you had multiple intermediate ABS or ABP signals between the control points, then you can have higher speeds between the control points.

Dave Sand

Show quoted text

----- Original message -----

From: Keith Williams <directorsixfive@...>

To:?[email protected]

Subject: Re: [jmriusers] Struggles with warrants - cont'd

Date: Sunday, October 06, 2024 6:41 PM

Nags, thanks for the response.? I have had a LOT of issues.? These all started out as a way to automate my cleaning train.? I want to make a lap from Buffalo Yard to Chicago Yard, on the normal straight through path (not going into any sidings.? Then go from Chicago to Buffalo, again on the main line only in Lap 2.? Then in Lap 3. I want to go from Buffalo to Chicago, hitting all of the passing Sidings, and in Lap 4 Chicago to Buffalo again hitting all of the sidings.? ?This led me to the following issues:

1. When a warrant allocates a route, it does not ALWAYS allocate it correctly.? I got around this by making a button?on the panel?that sets a "Route" (In this case all Main Line turnouts are closed) prior to allocating the Warrant - cleaning train (Lap 1).? ?At the end of the warrant it sets a sensor? which?sets " Route?2" then runs Warrant - Lap 2, Lap 2 Calls Lap 3, and Lap 3 calls Lap 4.? The routes?set the turnouts?every time reliably.

2.? Like you, I use SML to get speeds set for each block.? JMRI does not allow ramping up to "normal speed between control points.? For example, I have a main block 3 and a side block 3, a main block 4 then a main block 5 and a side block 5.? When the turnouts at each end of the siding a set to the main, trains on the Main run at "Normal" speed for that block, and at Normal on block 4.? However, when the sidings are thrown, the trains on the Main block 4 stay on a medium speed rather than ramping up to Normal between turnouts.??

3.? " Normal " speed seems to change over time.? On my layout, Normal speed is 50MPH, with all main blocks set to operate at that speed.? However, over time, the normal speed (especially coming from a siding to the main) will remain at the medium speed, But NOT ALL THE TIME!? Drives me crazy!

4.? I have a special block with a grade crossing with gates and flashers.? On this block I want to do a Grade crossing sequence - Long, Long, Short, Long with the horn.? Working the block from the right to left direction, it works out okay, timing wise, and I can tweak?it to?get it just right.? Going from Left to right, I cannot get the block to allow me to adjust the timing?of the horn.? I change the?"on" time?(from 6 seconds to 8 or 9) but the timing does not change.? The horn starts to sound about 2 seconds into the block.? Again, drives me crazy....

5.? This gets me to the timing changes.? The way the program logs the milliseconds as elapsed time is not always constant.? For example, Normal speed is 50 scale miles per hour, or 9.99 inches/second.? When I look at the throttle?command list, it does not always match up, and I dont?know why.

My experience with block speed vs signal speed is that JMRI will ALWAYS (well mostly) reduce the speed as I described above, even when I think it should?be running at Normal speed.

If you have any insight to any of this?stuff, I am all ears!? It has been quite the learning curve.....!

On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:43?PM Nags via <snowy999=[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 08:10 AM, Keith Williams wrote:
I don't think the the warrants are acting like they should.?
Welcome to the club. I've had lots of 'fun' getting things to function the way I thought they should in respect of signals and train speed.
The signal system will impact how speed changes (or doesn't). I employ SML and/or LogixNG to control 'real' and 'internal' signals although they are currently all internal as I'm developing my JMRI as I build the layout. On problem I had was trains not ramping up to a higher speed on a proceed signal.
It also seems oblock speeds are not applied as I would expect. It appears the warrant logic will look at the signal, apply the signal speed and disregard any block speed. If you have set a restrictive block speed and the entry signal is at proceed (at normal), the train won't slow to the lower block speed but run at the speed defined for 'normal'.
?
--
H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10

Re: Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants

#235061

Hi Keith,

I'm very much on the learning curve and you seem to be far ahead of me in what you're attempting.

When simulating train runs using NX Warrants (saved) I've had (have) issues with speed. I'm not a java programmer but I've attempted to read through the code and raised questions on this forum to clarify with varying luck. There's a lot going on in the code and it's pretty confusing, with numerous places where it calculates speed changes. There are a number of factors it considers.

?Now because I'm simulating a train, I don't need to take into account the physical condition of a 'loco'. However, during a run JMRI may change the speed profile, this manifested itself when a Warrant ran at a different speed after the first run - the throttle settings were unchanged but the throttle to speed ratio had changed.

--

H.O. Australia (Layout in Progress)
Digikeijs DR5000 LocoNet
JMRI v5.8 DecoderPro/Warrants/CPE/SML/LogixNG
Windows 10

Re: Build Fail, claims no route for cars #operationspro

#235060

On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 10:53 AM, Joe Z. wrote:

So I was able to find and correct problem of previous build fail.

So Joe,

?

For the benefit of those who read the posts here in order to learn more about how the program can be used, will you please share what you found to be the problem?

I'm guessing you discovered the solution from an expanded detail-level build report...?

?

Feel free to be brief in you solution's description if you prefer.

?

Happy to help, hope it helps,

Re: Help With OperationsPro Routes #operationspro

#235059

On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 11:09 AM, dadavies3 wrote:

The third screen is the one showing ERROR if I click on ADD ROUTE in the second screen.

Doug,

?

You are almost there! You just need to go back into the Route from image 3 above and Edit the route called "Pulp Turn" you already created.

?

The error message is because you didn't add any locations yet to that Route.? Once you add at least one location to the Pulp Turn route, you will see the "Error" status change to "Orphan" until you assign the Route to a train...

?

Happy to help, hope it helps,

Re: Operations: consists and turns #operationspro

#235058

Paul,? See my comments in Bold type:

I'd like to configure a train to:

Start on the departure track in the Missoula yard.
Venture partway down the westbound main.
Diverge onto the Polson branch.
Do work at branch towns.
Turn around at Polson, the branch's last town.
Return down the Polson branch, doing additional work as necessary.
Return to Missoula and terminate on an arrival track.

Based on the Ops Pro doc and this group's content, I'm confident that everything above is readily doable in Ops Pro.? ?All do-able.

?

The questions are:

How the locomotive consist gets created? Depends on the Command station you have.? Some do Brute force consisting, some do advanced consisting.??
How is the locomotive consist handled at the turn at the branch terminus in Polson.?? I have an NCE system which?allows me to reverse the consist, making the training loco the lead loco.? You have?to push a couple?of buttons,?but I?think?a logix or LogixNG?could handle that.

I hope to configure Ops Pro to dynamically create consists for trains based on available engines in the originating yard. But in this case, the branch terminus in Polson has no wye or turntable (at least, not in my era). I am not sure this?can be done, but I am sure there could be a way to do it.? Consequently, the locomotive consist (that train will be configured to require two locomotives)?must?be created in a tail-to-tail configuration and swap numbers at the turn. For example, the train might leave the station with a consist of 123/789 (calling in as 123) and return as 789/123 (calling in as 789). Is Ops Pro smart enough to handle this? This would require a bit of programming on your part.? Again, I think it is do-able. I 'm guessing that it can't be since a Location doesn't indicate whether it has a turntable or not. I suspect that I may have to configure this crew assignment as two Ops Pro trains.

?

I'm also wondering how these locomotive consists get created on the fly in Ops Pro; specifically, what's the workflow? Does the yard master gather the cars, caboose, and locomotives on the departure track by individually driving the locos in the correct order to the front of the train, and the locomotives are subsequently consisted automatically when the road crew's job starts? Or does Ops Pro simply assign the locos to the train and the yardmaster is responsible for creating the locomotive consist in the desirable order and juxtaposition?? I pre-build my consists, and dont?redo them on the fly as a normal procedure,?but I know it can be done if the yardmaster is available to do it.? I dont?know about?the?creating?them on?the fly part,?like as in?Automatically.

Show quoted text

On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 3:43?AM Paul Anderson via <paul=[email protected]> wrote:

I'm not far enough along on my layout to test this yet, so I'm just trying to figure out how I'll eventually handle this scenario.

?

I'd like to configure a train to:

Start on the departure track in the Missoula yard.

Venture partway down the westbound main.

Diverge onto the Polson branch.

Do work at branch towns.

Turn around at Polson, the branch's last town.

Return down the Polson branch, doing additional work as necessary.

Return to Missoula and terminate on an arrival track.

Based on the Ops Pro doc and this group's content, I'm confident that everything above is readily doable in Ops Pro.?

?

The questions are:

How the locomotive consist gets created??

How is the locomotive consist handled at the turn at the branch terminus in Polson.

I hope to configure Ops Pro to dynamically create consists for trains based on available engines in the originating yard. But in this case, the branch terminus in Polson has no wye or turntable (at least, not in my era). Consequently, the locomotive consist (that train will be configured to require two locomotives) must be created in a tail-to-tail configuration and swap numbers at the turn. For example, the train might leave the station with a consist of 123/789 (calling in as 123) and return as 789/123 (calling in as 789). Is Ops Pro smart enough to handle this? I'm guessing that it can't be since a Location doesn't indicate whether it has a turntable or not. I suspect that I may have to configure this crew assignment as two Ops Pro trains.

?

I'm also wondering how these locomotive consists get created on the fly in Ops Pro; specifically, what's the workflow? Does the yard master gather the cars, caboose, and locomotives on the departure track by individually driving the locos in the correct order to the front of the train, and the locomotives are subsequently consisted automatically when the road crew's job starts? Or does Ops Pro simply assign the locos to the train and the yardmaster is responsible for creating the locomotive consist in the desirable order and juxtaposition?

?

?

Re: Struggles with warrants - cont'd #warrants

#235057