Locked
Re: JMRI 5.8 hangs when opening panels-tables automatically on startup.
#startup
Gil,
You might try resetting the JMRI user data.
Rename the JMRI directory at "C:\Users\gfuch\" to something like JMRI-090224. ?When you start PanelPro, the default profile will be created with default preferences. ?I would then try setting up a local configuration, without OneDrive, and see if that resolves the problems.
Dave Sand
----- Original message -----
Subject: Re: [jmriusers] JMRI 5.8 hangs when opening panels-tables automatically on startup. #startup
Date: Monday, September 02, 2024 8:44 AM
Daniel,
?
? If I restart the computer and start JMRI with a single startup action (auto load panel file) enabled, it hangs and throws an exception (no surprise there).
? I did not change the look and feel, it is still set to Metal.
?
Gil
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Locked
Re: JMRI 5.8 hangs when opening panels-tables automatically on startup.
#startup
I wonder if there¡¯s more than one thing going on here? I can add code to catch that exception and continue. That doesn¡¯t fix the underlying problem, which I don¡¯t understand yet, but it should get you up and running. (Unfortunately, some parts of our build and distribute system are currently down, so it might take a day or so) But even when you bypass this, you¡¯re seeing other problems. I don¡¯t know whether they¡¯re coming from the same underlying cause or not. Bob On Sep 2, 2024, at 9:44?AM, Gil Fuchs via groups.io <gfuchs3@...> wrote:
Daniel,
If I restart the computer and start JMRI with a single startup action (auto load panel file) enabled, it hangs and throws an exception (no surprise there).
I did not change the look and feel, it is still set to Metal.
Gil ¡ª Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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Locked
Re: JMRI 5.8 hangs when opening panels-tables automatically on startup.
#startup
Daniel,
?
? If I restart the computer and start JMRI with a single startup action (auto load panel file) enabled, it hangs and throws an exception (no surprise there).
? I did not change the look and feel, it is still set to Metal.
?
Gil
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In general, intermediate signals are ¡°automatic¡±, in the sense that they work based on next signal and occupancy. They are safety systems. There¡¯s usually not a reason for a _dispatcher_ to hold a train in the middle of a long piece of track. It¡¯s not like another train can pass it there! Trains are usually allowed to proceed to the next control point (or in ABS territory, the signals protecting the next siding) rather than being stopped by the dispatcher at an intermediate signal in the middle of the single track. All of this is ¡°generally¡±, of course, because there are always prototypes for exceptions. But they aren¡¯t common. Bob On Sep 1, 2024, at 5:17?PM, Doug Wagner via groups.io <carldw@...> wrote:
Making progress on our club's N scale layout CTC panel. I'm currently setting up the signal logic. I have one signal logic finished with finally getting the OS (Interlock) signal hold logic figured out. My question concerns intermediate signals. Is it necessary to have an intermediate signal held from the block being occupied when it is already set up to go red when the block becomes occupied? I'm going to set it up for the dispatcher to be able to set the intermediate signal to hold, but does it need to be held when the block is being occupied, such as on a OS?
¡ª Bob Jacobsen rgj1927@...
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A rapidly flashing green LED is most likely indicating that the node hasn't initialized properly.
?
As soon as panel pro is launched the initialization should occur, hence why you run into trouble before you load the panel.
?
As suggested, check baud rate.
?
I'm assuming that you have some sort of USB to RS232 adapter that the CMRI system is connected to the computer through (is this the where the CMRI interface LED that you refer to is located).
Check that the adapter is compatible with windows 10 (some older ones aren't). Check that the drivers for that adapter are up to date and correct for windows 10. You may have to go to the adapters manufacturers website to find the drivers.
?
Chris Elliott
?
?
?
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Pete,
Thank you for the detailed explanation as to how the schedule assigns the load and sets the destination. After re-reading my original text, I realise that I did not fully explain the true situation.
When I found the issue, the car had been moved from its original track where the schedule had correctly set the load, but, it moved to a yard track where I was not expecting it to go to. It was then that I noticed the load assigned to the car, but no destination. I remembered where the car originated, so checked the schedule on that spur - all looked ok, then checked all the other spurs where we were creating the load and delivering the load, and all looked ok, and now I know that the schedules were working correctly. So I manually set the final destination and ran a test to see if I could get the car to go where I wanted it, and, of course, the system deleted the destination due to the car being too long to fit the delivery spur, although I did not realise that, thinking that the spur was occupied by another car.
I remember when I first tested these movements as a result of applying schedules, I used a car that would fit into the delivery spur without realising we had longer cars on the layout, so it all worked, and this was another factor that got me scratching my head as to why it was not working when we were actually running the trains. Our most recent ops session was the first actual run of the new setup with most cars now moving with custom loads. As a result of this session, we had a review and identified a number of changes in how we wanted the trains to move (one train ended up requiring the crew over 4 hours to complete the switch list). I was then updating the trains, locations and routes to create the new setup, and then started testing that the new setup would work as we were hoping it would. We will have another ops session in a few weeks using this new revised setup.
Thanks again for all your effort in replying to my issues.
Eric
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Hi
Versions of JMRI greater the 5.8,? (currently test releases 5.9.x ) give much greater detail when running install test or using the /noisy parameter so there is less guessing why jmri startup fails.
Steve G.
?
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Hi all¡ ? The good news is that I seem to have resolved my problem. Further to the ¡®InstallTest¡¯ report, I uninstalled Azul zulu17.50.19-ca-jre17.0.11-win_x64 and replaced it with Azul zulu17.52.17-ca-jdk17.0.12-win_x64 which seems to have resolved my launch issue! ? ? Apologies to all for taking up the bandwidth but perhaps it might help someone else if they encounter a similar issue¡(?) ? Jim ?
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From: James S. Brown <brown3980@...>
Sent: September 1, 2024 11:21 PM
To: 'JMRI Users' <[email protected]>
Subject: Loading error - Java (MORE)? I subsequently ran the JMRI ¡®Install Test¡¯ with the following report: ? ? Testing for Java working ? <JAVA_HOME>/lib/ext exists, extensions mechanism no longer supported; Use -classpath instead. .Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine. Error: A fatal exception has occurred. Program will exit. ? Some problem finding/running JAVA. Need to check for 32-bit JAVA install. ? Now trying to re-run as a 32-bit process.... ? Testing for 32/64-bit Windows ? Running on 64-bit Windows ? Testing for 32/64-bit process ? Running as a 32-bit process ? Testing for Java working ? <JAVA_HOME>/lib/ext exists, extensions mechanism no longer supported; Use -classpath instead. .Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine. Error: A fatal exception has occurred. Program will exit. ? Some problem finding/running JAVA. You must install JAVA first or fix your JAVA install.
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I subsequently ran the JMRI ¡®Install Test¡¯ with the following report: ? ? Testing for Java working ? <JAVA_HOME>/lib/ext exists, extensions mechanism no longer supported; Use -classpath instead. .Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine. Error: A fatal exception has occurred. Program will exit. ? Some problem finding/running JAVA. Need to check for 32-bit JAVA install. ? Now trying to re-run as a 32-bit process.... ? Testing for 32/64-bit Windows ? Running on 64-bit Windows ? Testing for 32/64-bit process ? Running as a 32-bit process ? Testing for Java working ? <JAVA_HOME>/lib/ext exists, extensions mechanism no longer supported; Use -classpath instead. .Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine. Error: A fatal exception has occurred. Program will exit. ? Some problem finding/running JAVA. You must install JAVA first or fix your JAVA install.
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Hi all¡ Alas, I need some guidance here! I¡¯ve just gone through the romance of reinstalling Windows and have been religiously reinstalling my various apps. I reinstalled Java Azul zulu17.50.19-ca-jre17.0.11-win_x64 first, followed by JMRI Decoder Pro 5.9.3 and everything seemed fine¡until tonight when the following error message popped up when trying to launch Decoder Pro: ¡°Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine, (followed by) A fatal exception occurred, program will exit. [OK]¡± I tried deleting and reinstalling Java, and then deleting and reinstalling Decoder Pro but to no avail ¨C anyone have any ideas? TIA Jim ?
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On 9/1/2024 9:30 PM, Doug Wagner via groups.io wrote: I've been using Bob Bucklew's 3-part tutorial as my way of leaning PanelPro, and in his example, he used holding signals at Interlocks on his Quaker State layout., as I'm still learning about signals from various resources. I rely on the info I get from a Class I railroad's "Chief Signal Engineer". Hopefully I have written in my "signaling" messages a reasonable interpretation of what I have heard from him... Regards, Billybob
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I've been using Bob Bucklew's 3-part tutorial as my way of leaning PanelPro, and in his example, he used holding signals at Interlocks on his Quaker State layout., as I'm still learning about signals from various resources.
?
Doug Wagner
Bakersfield, California
In a message dated 09/01/24 15:58:26 Pacific Daylight Time, jawhugrps@... writes:
?
On 9/1/2024 5:17 PM, Doug Wagner via groups.io wrote:
> My question concerns intermediate signals. Is it necessary to have an intermediate signal held from the block being occupied when it is already set up to go red when the block becomes occupied?
It is my interpretation that setting an "intermediate" signal to "held"
is really "not a thing" in JMRI signaling.
That is because a "prototype" intermedate signal shows a signal's
most-restrictive aspect as "Stop and proceed".? This is important!
Mmaking that intermediate signal as "held" _cannot HOLD_ a train
"stopped";? the signaling rules _require_ the train to come to a
complete stop _before reaching the signal_, and then _allow the train to
accelerate to "restricted" speed_, until there is a reason to stop, or
until the train reaches a "more-permissive" signal indication.
If the dispatcher _needs_ to "hold" a train at a particular signal, and
not pass that signal until the signal becomes less-restrictive, then the
signal designer will implement an "Absolute" signal, not a "Permissive"
one.? A North AmericaClass I railroad signal designer I know calls this
type of Absolute signal a "holding signal".
The "Holding signal" does _not_ need to protect any signal.? One example
I am aware of is just outside of Hinton, WV's "Avis Yard" on the C&O
railroad.? "MX" interlocking is at the East end of Avis Yard.? The
holding signal is on "Main 2", governing the Eastbound movement of Main
2, and is positioned _on the same Signal Bridge_ that holds signals
which governs the _Westbound_ moves from Main 1 and Main 2 to enter the
MX Interlocking.
The MX interlocking signal allows a coal train to leave Avis Yard but to
stop at the "Holding signal" at the "departure-end" of MX Interlocking.
The "helpers" can be tied-on to the tail-end of the train, without
allowing the train to depart the MX Interlocking until the dispatcher
gets informed that the air test is "good".? Once the dispatcher hears of
the "passed" air test, he can clear the "holding signal" via the CTC
control.
(The attached image shows how MX and the "Holding signal" are arranged
on the CTC office machine on a friend's model.? "Signal 230" is the
"Holding signal", and can be found at the redish arrow in the image.
It, effectively, "controls" the departure, onto "Main 2", of a train
that has already entered "MX Interlocking".)
So, you "just need" to implement an "Absolute" signal under CTC control.
? That "holding" signal does not need to be at a switch.
Can JMRI deal with this "holding signal" at the "departure-end" of a
switch, as well as JMRI can "hold" an absolute signal at the "entry-end"
of a switcha switch?? I don't know, because I generally do not use the
JMRI signal "held" feature to enable CTC functionality.? Others who work
with JMRI's signaling in more "traditional" ways can weigh-in.
> I'm going to set it up for the dispatcher to be able to set the intermediate signal to hold, but does it need to be held when the block is being occupied, such as on a OS?
In my opinion, "Yes", if you want to "prevent a train from passing a
given signal under dispatcher control".? But you _cannot_ use an
"Intermediate" signal to do so.
Regards,
Billybob
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I have not been paying close attention to this thread, so I ask, "What JMRI version are you using?"
I have a _vague_ recollection that some older JMRI Versions did not behave the way that current JMRI versions do, especially where various tools deal with objects which do not have "User Names", so the JMRI Version number could be of importance.
Regards,
Billybob
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Derek,
Does the sensor shows up if you restart JMRI?
Are you sure that the sensor isn't used anywhere else, for
another turnout?
Daniel
On 2024-09-02 01:03, Derek Uttley
wrote:
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Hi again Dave,
?
I am trying to assign the sensor to the turnout as a feedback
sensor, as I have done dozens of times in the past. The list
does not include the existing sensor in the sensor table. I do
not use user names, just system names in the formats NS996 (I
have an NCE control system). The NS is provided by the JMRI
system. The number is dependant on the configuration of the NCE
AIU. All other sensor numbers relating to the same AIU are shown
in the drop down menu (NS995 and NS997) ETC. I have not checked
the system console for messages. I presume that I pull that up
once the JMRI system is up and running?
?
Derek.
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On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 07:01 PM, Eric Coughlan wrote:
As a suggestion for a future build of Ops Pro, it may assist others if a warning is issued when the system deletes the final destination because it is not an obvious situation and the car was being moved.
Okay, in next test release.
?
Dan
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Locked
Re: JMRI 5.8 hangs when opening panels-tables automatically on startup.
#startup
Ron,
XML entities can have two forms:
<perform ....> .... </perform>
or
<perform .... />
It's the latter form that's used on the second
"<perform...>" in Gil's example. So it's correct.
Daniel
On 2024-09-02 02:01, Ron Ventura wrote:
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Show quoted text
I¡¯m no xml or JMRI expert, but is the second
¡°<perform¡>¡± clause missing a corresponding
¡°</perform>¡± ?
?
Feel free to disregard this if it¡¯s completely wrong. Just my
2c worth, which, given the current exchange rate is worth just
over 1c.
--
Regards
Ron Ventura
Melbourne, Australia
JMRI 5.6+R89a87446cb
Java 11.0.14
Windows 11
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And of course as I am trying to write up a reply (which involves some careful thought and time), the problem becomes moot! ;-)
?
Pete
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On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 06:53 AM, Eric Coughlan wrote:
After reading the topic Adding "Custom" loads to OpsPro - Part Three, I had setup two spurs with a schedule for a reefer to receive MTY and? ship FROZEN FOOD.
Did you actually have two Spurs using the same schedule for the MTY refer? And on each of them, you left the "Destination" column blank?
?
I then had a reefer on one of the spurs shipping FROZEN FOOD and its load was MTY.
How did you get this refer into the Spur and it remain MTY?? The program would have converted the MTY to a load of FROZEN FOOD when the car was spotted at the Sour.? If you placed it manually and then told the program NOT to apply the schedule, that is the only way I know of that would have left the car MTY.? If you misunderstood the sequence of load conversion from my article's instructions, I apologize.? If you read down through the whole article, I wrote...
Remember, the schedule is applied to all the cars as they arrive at a Spur, not as they leave. ?It is key to the process, that the program be given defined "instructions" so to speak, and will carry them out when the next check for assignments occurs (when a train is built).
This occurs when you build the train that delivers the cars to the Spur in the first place.? The schedule of the Spur is applied when that train terminates (or is "moved" beyond the location of the Spur).? Thus, if you have Train#1 that services the Spur and it has a refer listed to set out at the Spur, the schedule will act upon the car when Train#1 terminates.? Then the car will remain with its converted load until you build Train#2, at which time, the assignment check (for a destination) will occur and the program will try to send the program on to the stated destination.?
You wrote...
...according to Part Three, the system should, on building a train, apply the schedule and do two things, change the load to FROZEN FOOD, and find a spur to receive FROZEN FOOD and set the car to go to that destination.
I fear you are mixing up the actions of the schedule and the program's choosing a destination.? Or at least, misunderstanding how many trains make the process work.
So, again to be clear, when Train#1 is built and delivers the car, the schedule is applied and when Train#2 is built, a destination is assigned, which the program tries to route to the new destination, using the second train built.
?
Again, you wrote...
However, when I build the train to move the car from the yard track to the C/I track, the resulting move is to another C/I track, and the final destination is removed.
If the program is removing the final destination, this indicates to me that the route is broken somehow.? When you built the train you expected to set out the car at the Spur, did your Build Report have any wording similar to this...?
- ? ?WARNING! Car (UP 47417) at (Midway, cattle yard) can't be routed to (Midway, StockYard-(custom) will?
? ?attempt to move stuck car?
This might mean the program isn't able to route the car properly and is attempting to reload the car in order for it to then be moved.? The program is always seeking to move cars and if it thinks it just can't deliver the car anywhere, it attempts to reload with something it CAN deliver.?
This is why I also mentioned in the article...
Once a car is assigned a destination, unless there is simply no route to the final location, the program will send the car to its target.
Now, since you mentioned in your post, that...
On checking the Build Report, I can see that the final destination is currently unavailable due to the fact that there is another reefer on that spur.
This alone should not cause the program to replace the load.? It should just find another track on which to wait (if no "alternate" is used).
As Dan notes, the behaviour is not expected and the Build Report will shed light on the actual issue.? Can you post the train's BR here on the forum and we'll take a look...?
?
I would also suggest a pencil-to-paper approach to sketching out the movement of the car between the Spurs involved.? Check the trains involved, any intermediate tracks you think should be used to facilitate the movement, and the final tracks (the ones with the schedules) used to set out the car.? Sometimes, this lets you see what you might have missed if you are only looking at computer windows stacked on top of each other...
?
Happy to help, hope it helps,
<Pete Johnson>
?
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Locked
Re: JMRI 5.8 hangs when opening panels-tables automatically on startup.
#startup
I¡¯m no xml or JMRI expert, but is the second ¡°<perform¡>¡± clause missing a corresponding ¡°</perform>¡± ?
?
Feel free to disregard this if it¡¯s completely wrong. Just my 2c worth, which, given the current exchange rate is worth just over 1c.
--
Regards
Ron Ventura
Melbourne, Australia
JMRI 5.6+R89a87446cb
Java 11.0.14
Windows 11
|
Hi Daniel,
JMRI is showing my layout control panel when I am using the Sensor table and Turnout table to try to configure the sensor to the turnout.
?
Derek.
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Bob Jacobsen
Gil Fuchs
James S. Brown
Doug Wagner