Re: NCE USB Issue with RPi4 #rpi #nce #powercab

#167653

Roy, This is for you.

Now only Step 3 and Step 9 is being challenged by Dave.... I will explain what is happening......

??? Set up the RPi4
??? The jumpers on the NCE USB interface must be on 2, 3 and 4 or 3 and 4 this supports the Power Cab and its two sub types. 7.3.3 or 7.3.7 and 19200 baud.??
??? Connect the USB port on the RPi4 to the NCE USB interface with a USB AB cable. (Leave the Power Cab unconnected)?
??? Start JMRI Panel Pro. (It will try to configure itself and you will have to change some settings.)
??? Go into Preference:Default and make sure that all the the radio buttons are set got NCE.
??? Go into connections and set the baud rate to 19200 (click the advance check box)
??? Make sure the the ttyUSB0 is selected along with the Power Cab option.
??? save and restart. (make sure that it open NCE, sometimes it defaults to Digitrax)
??? When the Panel Pro windows comes up within a second or two connect the Power Cab to the NCE USB interface (coiled wire.)
??? The ttyUSB0 connection will flash red but go back to black.
??? Open NCE:Show Cab and refresh. You will see it connect to the NCE interface first. The it will find the Power Cab.

Step 3 states

Connect the USB port on the RPi4 to the NCE USB interface with a USB AB cable. (Leave the Power Cab unconnected)

When you make this connection the USB port to the Raspberry Pi 4's allows its processor to create TTYUSB0 .......This allows Panel Pro to access it on it's boot up.? The Raspberry Pi
is not as efficient in handling USB port configuration as Windows. This step just insures that ttyUSB0 becomes a selection in Panel Pro connection window.

Leaving the Power Cab coil unconnected to the NCE USB Interface prevents it from energizing and initiating its boot cycle. This seems to be a problem as the Power Cab will be isolated because
the NCE Interface LED's have gone RED.

Step 9

When the Panel Pro windows comes up within a second or two connect the Power Cab to the NCE USB interface (coiled wire.) Moot argument coil is a RJ connection

When you make this connect it applies power to the micro processor side of the NCE USB interface (Module side). This triggers the initialization
between the Power Cab and NCE USB Interface. They establish their connection. When you make this connection in time Panel Pro sends out the AA
and the Power Cab can send the response. This transaction can be seen with the RED text Blink. If you do not time this connection right the NCE USB Interface will
initiate the RED LED and you will have to start over.

Some may see me as argumentative and that's true. My arguments are based on experience and facts that I have seen myself. In this case I had a vested interest as I needed to use
the RPi4 for an up coming build.? I mocked up the RPi4 test case and did everything like Roy would have done and it failed. I verified that there was a problem as I recreated it consistently.
I posted my findings and you can see for yourself what happen and where we are now.

I fight and argue so people can just run their trains with minimal frustration.
Inobu

Re: Operation Manifest not printing #operationspro

#167650

Just to update... after doing a bit more digging on the OS side of the equation, I changed the printer port from WSD to TCP/IP.?

Problem solved.

Automation Challenges #routes #dispatcher #automation

John Greene

#167649

Thank you in advance for being patient with this post.? A Newbie to JMRI however have been reading all that I can over the past three months online and this post is my last resort.

Some context for you.? I have a small layout, LGB trains, two switches and pretty much a large concentric circle with a crossover.? NCE system, with (9) BD20 block detectors into an NCE AIU-01.?
All Block detectors register in Panel Editor with active or inactive colors as the train traverses the layout. I have an Occupancy Block Table completed and a Portal Table in place.? All switches operate with a mouse click and the throttle moves the train. I believe I have everything working and my challenge is writing the correct information in the right fields to dispatch a train automatically.? This is after many days recently trying to do it.?

I cannot seem to write a warrant to allow me to move one train from the outer train station to the inner one. I offer this link as the best Youtube video that comes close to what I am trying to do, it is the North Haverbrook automation demo? ??? ?My goal is to run two trains around the layout of 50 linear feet of track to travel to each station dependent upon the occupancy block detection feedback.? A simple step by step process or link to this process will work just fine as I have not found the wheel I am trying to reinvent? :)

Any help is greatly appreciated as I have come a long way with wiring and establishing blocks/sensors and refuse to quit as a result of not understanding how to configure a passenger train to go from point A to B without building a train or assigning an engine or noting if the train is loaded or unloaded.? This layout sits under the Christmas tree.? I want two trains (4-5 cars per train) to travel between stations A & B which are 25 feet from each other, automatically routing as they move through two switches to get to one Station or the other.? Once I have this in place I will let the trains run for days on automatic.? Thank you all for any insight as I have spent many hours searching this User Group messages with no luck for one close to my challenge

Kind regards,

John Greene

Conroe Texas

Re: LCC signaling hardware For Sale

#167648

We are glad you are interested in the JMRI software, and welcome your questions on the list.

We would like to point out that this list is for discussion of the TECHNICAL
aspects of JMRI, and is intended to be a place that people, particularly
beginners, can turn to for help with their problems from more experienced users.
SPAM of any kind, politics, legal issues, and other off-topic matters should NOT
be posted to the list and will be subject to deletion by the moderators, as will
any responses to such off-topic matters. New members still on moderated
status will find that off-topic posts will not be approved for posting, and old
members making such posts may find themselves back on moderated status.

BUY / SELL and ADVERTISING is NOT PERMITTED

Let's keep things simple for all of us, and keep the discussion here on-topic.

Your moderators

-- 
Peter Ulvestad

JMRI Users Group Moderator -  (  )
Tam Valley Group Moderator -  (  )
Sprog-DCC Group Moderator -  (  )
Edmonton Model Railroad Association - 

Files not linking #operationspro

#167647

I ran a session and terminated all the trains.? I shut the system down and then called up the system back up to make a change in a location file in the yard. Only of the 6 tracks in the yard showed up in the location. However, the cars still show up on the missing yard tracks in the car file with cars on those tracks.? How can I relink the locations of the cars in the car file to the tracks under location in the yard? ?

I am using Windows 10 and used JRMI version 4.17.3? and then upgraded to 4.18 to see if that would solve the problem.? Any suggestions on how to relink the files would be appreciated.? The computer was also checked for viruses and malware and that is not an issue.

Thank you
Bob in Houston.

Re: NCE USB Issue with RPi4 #rpi #nce #powercab

#167646

Ken,

On 2 Jan 2020, at 11:09 AM, Ken Cameron <kcameron@...> wrote:

Biggest issue I see with your method is you are trying to race (for no good
reason IMHO) the startup of JMRI against the startup of the USB and its
identification and driver loading by the computer. If JMRI gets ready first,
it fails with 'port not found' since it has a port in its config it will
open. For the open to work, the USB side must have powered up before the
computer tries to open the port. How long the USB waits, 1uS or 10 hours,
the USB doesn't care, it waits. The USB by itself won't sleep, but some
computer settings might do a power save which will sleep the USB port. This
has been know to bother a number of different USB devices, many times
requiring either a power cycle of the computer (which would also cycle the
USB) or the unplug/plug of the USB which would power cycle the USB.The entire USB part of the NCE USB is entirely powered by the 5V from the computer as soon as the USB cable is plugged in. This triggers loading of the device driver and appearance of the COM port. There is no requirement for the 12V from the cab bus to be present. There is an optical barrier between the 5V and 12V parts and since the connection is two "wire" TX/RX only no provision for hardware handshaking or status information to be passed.

Inobu's "workaround" is manipulating the timing of the startup of the microprocessor on the 12V side and hence what (if any) of the data the computer may pass to the link is seen by the microprocessor. Under normal circumstances the only traffic JMRI sends at this stage is one or more AA bytes. It doesn't attempt to send anything else until it sees the three byte 07 0n 0n response. But see below.



Now one thing that most of this thread hasn't dealt with is the code Steve
used to figure out which device is connected to the RasPi and what the right
port name it should have JMRI use for the open. This could be doing some
interesting things that might confuse the RasPi, JMRI, or the USB. But two
points: the poster (or you) had said the autoconfigure was disabled, we've
not heard of issues anything like this until this thread showed up.This is my concern. Inobu says "4. Start JMRI Panel Pro. (It will try to configure itself and you will have to change some settings.)".

That rings alarm bells for me. If this "configure itself" sends anything other than an AA (at the baud rate matching the microprocessor jumper settings), the microprocessor could become confused and wait for further command bytes, reply inappropriately or send something on to the Power Cab, possibly leading to a "lockup" of communications.

What Inobu is doing is probably effectively silencing the microprocessor during this "configure itself".

But unfortunately Inobu's description of what he does is ambiguous. At step 3 he says "(Leave the Power Cab unconnected)" then at step 9 he says "within a second or two connect the Power Cab to the NCE USB interface (coiled wire.)". The problem is that we have three items to connect (NCE USB, PCP and Power Cab) via two cables. At step 3 he implies the missing connection is between Power Cab and PCP but at step 9 he implies the missing connection is between NCE USB and PCP. The difference is vital because if:
A) The missing connection is between PCP and Power Cab, the NCE USB microprocessor will completely configure itself at step 3 in the absence of the Power Cab. (It will be ready to act on any command sent from the computer via the USB.)
B) The missing connection is between PCP and the NCE USB, the microprocessor will not configure itself until step  9. (Until it has configured itself, it will ignore any prior command sent from the computer via the USB.There is no handshaking and no buffering of commands between the computer.)

Hence there are two very different behaviour paths and we need to know which is being followed.



As Dave has pointed out some sort of log of the bytes over the USB
connection would help to show what is happening and what replies come back.Unfortunately we don't have the option of a full raw dump of the bytes in the code at present. However, the System Console may have vital clues and we need to see that. 

The NCE Command Monitor can be set up to open at startup, but it doesn't start logging at the very beginning, only after it is open. Also it is set up as an interpreted log and only parses valid complete commands, ignoring flushed receive buffer contents after a timeout.

Dave in Australia

Re: NCE USB Issue with RPi4 #rpi #nce #powercab

#167645

I've been doing this a bit differently ever since I started using JMRI.? I turn on my laptop, plug in the USB devices (already powered up), start JMRI, load my panel and run the InitLayout script, open the Digitrax monitor, then I power up the command station.? In my case that's a Digitrax DCS100.? I have three connections to the layout.? First is to the Digitrax via a PR3.? Second is a C/MRI system using the cpNode.? Third is to a SPROG for programming decoders.? This has worked for me since at least 2.14 up to now with 4.18.? Hope this helps.

Cheers, Dennis Drury
Dayton, NV

The miracle is this: the more we share the more we have.
Leonard Nimoy

Show quoted text

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:46 AM <forfoum@...> wrote:

To add to what Dick points out.

Current release of JMRI will throw an error message window at you (Error Inititializing DecoderPro)? and refuse to start? if the required USB device is not plugged in.
This is valid for NCE, Digitrax, any Command Station that uses USB/Serial as the interface.

If the USB device is plugged in to the computer, the Initialize error will not show but the Command Station will not respond if it is not powered up.?

So everything must be powered up; Computer, USB, Command Station before you start JMRI (PanelPro or DecoderPro).

Marc

Re: Changing Car Type #operationspro

#167644

Hi Jerry,

You might look into creating two spur types for the same track.? You can then set one spur to accept the regular loads and the other for the specialty load.? Use track pooling to make sure the program doesn't try and force two cars into the spur at the same time.? Here's the link for track pools:

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Dennis Drury
Dayton, NV

The miracle is this: the more we share the more we have.
Leonard Nimoy

Show quoted text

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:13 AM <gerardh1031@...> wrote:

I believe you are missing my point. I am running a small terminal layout and as such will from time to time receive a specialty load for a specific industry..I am not interested in establishing a schedule. I was looking for a tool that would help make it easier to accomplish this action. I will keep searching the program
Jerry

Re: Test version 4.19.1 of JMRI/DecoderPro is available for download

Jon Miller

#167643

开云体育

On 1/2/2020 9:41 AM, emrldsky wrote:

A new computer running Windows 10. I installed JMRI,

??? On desktop, loaded on top of last version OK.? A few simple tests (Win10) seems to work OK.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Decoder Pro/Hornby Elite communication problem #hornby

[email protected]

#167642

Part of your problem is right here :

2020-01-02 12:36:17,769 hornbyelite.EliteAdapter INFO -COM2 port opened at 19200 baud with DTR: true RTS: true DSR: false CTS: false CD: false [main]
2020-01-02 12:36:22,839 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 21 21 00 consecutive timeouts = 0 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]

SO JMRI tries to init the COM2 connection but something shows as failed in the next message.

It continues on with more errors :
2020-01-02 12:36:52,869 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 21 24 05 consecutive timeouts = 1 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]

You then try and do a read from the decoder? of CV8:

2020-01-02 12:37:27,828 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 22 15 08 3F consecutive timeouts = 2 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]
2020-01-02 12:37:47,828 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message:22 15 08 3F consecutive timeouts = 3 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]
2020-01-02 12:38:07,843 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 22 15 08 3F consecutive timeouts = 4 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]
2020-01-02 12:38:17,842 jmrit.AbstractIdentify WARN -Timeout talking to command station (306) readng CV 8, trying Paged mode [AWT-EventQueue-0]

Switches to PAGE mode :

2020-01-02 12:38:27,857 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 22 14 08 3E consecutive timeouts = 5 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]
2020-01-02 12:38:47,872 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 22 14 08 3E consecutive timeouts = 6 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]
2020-01-02 12:39:07,887 jmrix.AbstractMRTrafficController WARN -Timeout on reply to message: 22 14 08 3E consecutive timeouts = 7 in lenz.XNetPacketizer [lenz.XNetPacketizer Transmit thread]

Gives up :

2020-01-02 12:39:17,887 jmrit.AbstractIdentify WARN -Restoring Direct Byte mode [AWT-EventQueue-0]
2020-01-02 12:39:17,887 jmrit.AbstractIdentify WARN -Stopping due to error: Timeout talking to command station (306) [AWT-EventQueue-0]

All you have is a USB A/B cable connected to the R8214? and I would be inclined to say the problem is internal to the Elite. That fact the engine nudges forward indicates it is receiving the commands, executing then,? but not returning the proper response or no response.

If you use RAILMASTER? can it read / write to / from? any decoder ?? .? This would give an idea if it is Elite or JMRI at root cause.

Marc?

Re: JMRI 4.18 is available for download #4-18

#167641

Works with DCC++ on Ubuntu 18.04! Nice work!

-Austin

Show quoted text

On 12/24/19 7:48 AM, Bob Jacobsen wrote:
Production version 4.18 of JMRI/DecoderPro is available for download.

This is a new production release containing changes since last July.

If you are currently using JMRI 4.9.6 or earlier, we strongly recommend that you first update to JMRI 4.12 and make sure that's running OK before updating to this release. There have been a number of changes in serial port support, panel file format and configuration options since those earlier releases, and moving to the stable JMRI 4.12 release is a good way to work through any possible problems.
<>
(In the future, we’ll probably saying that about this one too)

If you use JMRI on Linux or Mac and are updating from JMRI 4.7.3 or earlier, there’s a necessary migration step. (Not needed on Windows) Please see the JMRI 4.12 release note for details: <>

For more information on the issues, new features and bug fixes in 4.18 please see the release note:
<>

Note that JMRI is made available under the GNU General Public License. For more information, please see our copyright and licensing page.
<>

The download links, along with lots of other information which we hope you'll read, can be found on the release note page:
<>

Bob
--
Bob Jacobsen
rgj1927@...

Re: NCE USB Issue with RPi4 #rpi #nce #powercab

[email protected]

#167640

To add to what Dick points out.

Current release of JMRI will throw an error message window at you (Error Inititializing DecoderPro)? and refuse to start? if the required USB device is not plugged in.
This is valid for NCE, Digitrax, any Command Station that uses USB/Serial as the interface.

If the USB device is plugged in to the computer, the Initialize error will not show but the Command Station will not respond if it is not powered up.?

So everything must be powered up; Computer, USB, Command Station before you start JMRI (PanelPro or DecoderPro).

Marc

Re: Test version 4.19.1 of JMRI/DecoderPro is available for download

#167639

A new computer running Windows 10. I installed JMRI, then installed Java in its default location. Tried to start DecoderPro.

Got the message "Java not found!". Where does JMRI "expect" to find Java, or, better yet, can I tell JMRI where to look for it?

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Changing Car Type #operationspro

#167638

I believe you are missing my point. I am running a small terminal layout and as such will from time to time receive a specialty load for a specific industry..I am not interested in establishing a schedule. I was looking for a tool that would help make it easier to accomplish this action. I will keep searching the program
Jerry

Re: calling dispatched from script

#167637

开云体育

Got it, thanks.

Ken

On 1/1/2020 12:58 PM, Steve_G wrote:

Show quoted text

The one before last. "Y is the penultimate letter of the alphabet"

Re: NCE USB Issue with RPi4 #rpi #nce #powercab

#167636

Thank you. ?

Show quoted text

On 2 Jan 2020, at 14:10, dick bronson via Groups.Io <dick@...> wrote:

?Roy,

There is just one big rule, always have the USB unit running before you start JMRI. If you do not, then JMRI can not start due to a missing COM port. It is a Windows thing. Most folks just leave the USB adapter plugged into the computer all the time.

There is also a small rule. Start the command station before you start JMRI. If not then JMRI can not connect to it until you power it on.

Both of the above should be self evident, but only to those that understand that: a) an application can only find a com port during its start up processing, not after it is running; b) if an application is running with a COM port number, then Windows will choose a different COM port number for a device being connected. This is the reason that JMRI will stop working if the USB is unplugged and plugged in again. If you ever do that, then you need to completely start over to restore operation. (stop JMRI, unplug the USB, plug in the USB, start JMRI)

Dick :)

On 1/2/2020 8:02 AM, Roy Whitgrove wrote:
As an absolute beginner I have followed this thread with great interest and I did initially have a problem with downloading the drivers, however my son in law who is conversant with that sort of stuff finally got me connected ok.  What I would like to know is in your opinion which is the best way to hook up the usb interface. Do I power up the NCE Power Cab with the interface connected but the usb not connected to my laptop. Then start Panel Pro then Decoder Pro and finally connect the usb or which way is best? After all the controversy over this beating that sometimes there is a better procedure to follow. I sorry if this is over simplistic question but as I said I am very new and very old and just starting out with JMRI
Kind regards and all the best for the New Year.
Roy Whitgrove uk
On 1 Jan 2020, at 19:01, Dave Heap <dgheap@...> wrote:?Inobu,

I've taken a look at the whole thread and now see things that have been buried beneath your speculation about the way NCE USB communications work. Four things stand out to me:

1) A complete absence of JMRI system log transcripts from either you or Larry. We need to see those in both the working and non-working cases.

2) An "Unable to connect on ttyxxxx" message is not pointing to an NCE communications issue but an operating system level issue with the USB port, unrelated to the way NCE does communications.

3) The statements "You only have to do this on the initial install", "(Leave the Power Cab unconnected)" and "Start JMRI Panel Pro. (It will try to configure itself and you will have to change some settings.)". This could point towards some issue in what I understand to be an auto-configuration script in Steve's RPi distributions.

4) A total lack of reporting of the behaviour of two important NCE USB status indicators; the USB and CAB indicator LEDs. These provide vital troubleshooting information to both Ken and I, particularly when accompanied by system logs.

We need to put aside your speculation about how NCE communications work, your speculation that "This seems to be an inherent problem with the Power Cab as well", any suggestion that users should adopt your quite clumsy "workaround" as the solution and you, me, Ken and Steve work cooperatively to solve this problem properly.

Inobu, the ball is in your court to provide logs of both the non-working and working cases, along with accompanying information about the NCE Status LEDs' behaviour. You have the hardware and knowledge to perform these tests so please help us solve this cooperatively.

Larry, if you can provide any logs as well, they'd be much appreciated.

Dave in Australia

Re: Decoder Pro/Hornby Elite communication problem #hornby

#167635

PPS -? I must be getting old, I missed the other query above. When I unplug the USB lead, COM2 disappears from device manager then re-appears when I plug it back in.

Re: Layout Editor: issue connecting two turnouts #layouteditor

#167634

If I decide to "try" it I'll make it 100% "opt-in" (meaning unless you opt-in you'll never know it's there).
I've been working with the developer of RailModeller Pro on his JMRI export and one of the "features" it has is "real" (inches, feet, mm or kilometer) units…
(FYI: his layout editor uses a library of commercial tracks parts with the exact dimensions to match. So WYSIWYG. In theory exporting to JMRI would give you an exact scale representation of your layout.)
Just wondered if it ("real" units) would be of interest to anyone using JMRI.
Thanks for the feedback.

DB-HV-1969 Changes in xml files

#167633

Just updated to 4.18. Modeling German modern day in N. Have been setting up Signal Masts with the DB-HV-1969. Discovered that I could no longer set a "dark" signal aspect from ?the Signal Mast table. Started up 4.16 and "dark" was back. Compared the xml files for DB-HV-1969 in 4.18 vs 4.16 and found that indeed "dark" was missing in 4.18. Any particular reason "dark" has gone dark?

I have set up some Logix that set signals aspects including "dark" and this change affects present operations and future plans. I replaced the DB-HV-1969 xml files in 4.18 with those from 4.16 and things seem to be fine.?

Any enlightening concerning this change would be appreciated.

Gary

When responding to help, address needs

#167632

Just a thought to maybe focus messages better for people needing help.
When someone says "I bought this and tried to install but...", I think people who want to help should answer his/her concerns rather than suggesting they buy something else.? Not to say that that might be the best route to Joy, but it doesn't seem to be helpful to the original poster.
Also, anecdotal evidence is often misleading ("My thing works this way, so I recommend it."). Often too many variables differ to be a usable comparison without in depth review.
I've been at the end of my rope sometimes and asked for help. Being lectured that I should have bought NCE instead of Digitrax is not helpful.
Happy New Year everyone.??
Phil in awesome Santa Rosa Beach (vacation)