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Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Hi Howard,
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As the whole IC-7000 concept is speculative at this stage, I see no harm in a healthy dose of speculation. This can often lead to interesting technical discussion, expressions of wishes/hopes for features and capabilities, etc. Speculation is encouraged - with the usual caveat that civil and polite discourse is expected. (The alternative to same will simply not be tolerated.) Best 73, Adam, VA7OJ/AB4OJ Owner, Yahoo! ic7000 Group -----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Howard S. White [mailto:drpaper@...] Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 01:39 To: ic7000@... Subject: Re: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? Joanne: All these people must be smoking something.. the product does not exist yet...except for a brief mention in a French magazine...of some alleged specs...and yet people are already pricing it, complaining the price will be too high or too low, speculating on the filter configurations, etc. etc. etc.. Get a Life Folks.. IT DOES NOT EXIST YET..Stop speculating... you are only wasting bandwidth... Wait until it is offically announced in Japan (likely)... or Dayton (less likely) I am still betting it wll have a number other that IC-7000 FYI - Like I did for the Pro3 and the SteppIR MonstIR, I am going to HRO tomorrow and put in an order for one .. just so I can say I got the first one....(it's a guy thing again) .... whatever it turns out to be! __________________________________________________________ Howard S. White Ph.D. P. Eng., VE3GFW/K6 ex-AE6SM KY6LA "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished" Formerly "Awfully Extremely Six Sado Masochist" "Krazy Yankee Six Loves America" ----- Original Message ----- From: jdow To: ic7000@... Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...> > > How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it will not > be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new > IC-706mkiiG. Infinite dollars today. > Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English upload > says that optional filters are neither available or required. Just > how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000? > Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once? DSP filters not crystal filters. With dual passband tuning you can get just about any passband and center frequency in 50Hz and 100Hz steps respectively as long as it remains below the basic bandwidth setting for the filter, which is also variable in principle. > Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the > IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries? It does not run on batteries at this time. But that is because it does not run at all at this time. Apparently it is still in design not production. {^_-} W6MKU Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ic7000-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Scanned by WinProxy |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Paul Manuel
--- "Dr. Howard S. White" <drpaper@...> wrote:
All these people must be smoking something.. the product does not existI don't really understand the purpose of this group at this point if it is not to speculate, such as you did on the eventual model number. 73, Paul K4PDM __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
jdow
Probable announcement is at some event in France given the source of
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the original news (leak?) {^_^} ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Howard S. White" <drpaper@...> yet...except for a brief mention in a French magazine...of some alleged specs...and yet people are already pricing it, complaining the price will be too high or too low, speculating on the filter configurations, etc. etc. etc.. wasting bandwidth... likely) tomorrow and put in an order for one whatever it turns out to be! ---- Yahoo! Groups LinksService.
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Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Dr. Howard S. White
Joanne:
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All these people must be smoking something.. the product does not exist yet...except for a brief mention in a French magazine...of some alleged specs...and yet people are already pricing it, complaining the price will be too high or too low, speculating on the filter configurations, etc. etc. etc.. Get a Life Folks.. IT DOES NOT EXIST YET..Stop speculating... you are only wasting bandwidth... Wait until it is offically announced in Japan (likely)... or Dayton (less likely) I am still betting it wll have a number other that IC-7000 FYI - Like I did for the Pro3 and the SteppIR MonstIR, I am going to HRO tomorrow and put in an order for one .. just so I can say I got the first one....(it's a guy thing again) .... whatever it turns out to be! __________________________________________________________ Howard S. White Ph.D. P. Eng., VE3GFW/K6 ex-AE6SM KY6LA "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished" Formerly "Awfully Extremely Six Sado Masochist" "Krazy Yankee Six Loves America" ----- Original Message -----
From: jdow To: ic7000@... Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...> > > How much is the Icom IC-7000 going to cost me? I presume it will not > be the same price or lower than what I am paying for my new > IC-706mkiiG. Infinite dollars today. > Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English upload > says that optional filters are neither available or required. Just > how many software filters can be configured at once on the IC-7000? > Can I have a 250 Hz CW and a 500 Hz CW filter programmed at once? DSP filters not crystal filters. With dual passband tuning you can get just about any passband and center frequency in 50Hz and 100Hz steps respectively as long as it remains below the basic bandwidth setting for the filter, which is also variable in principle. > Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like the > IC-706mkiiG, or is it friendlier towards 12 volt batteries? It does not run on batteries at this time. But that is because it does not run at all at this time. Apparently it is still in design not production. {^_-} W6MKU Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ic7000-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Hi Ya'akov,
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This phenomenon (actual blow-by caused by inadequate stopband attenuation of the filter, or signal leakage around the filter) cannot occur in a DSP filter system, as the stopband attenuation and comebacks (lobes) are a long way below the 0 dBr passband-centre reference. Have you attempted to measure the blow-by in your 706 by sweeping across the passband with a signal generator and measuring the audio output in the passband and stopband? Cheers for now, 73, Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ -----Original Message-----
From: Ya`akov N. Miles [mailto:ve7alq@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 12:22 To: ic7000@... Subject: [ic7000] Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? --- In ic7000@..., "jdow" <jdow@e...> wrote: From: "Adam Farson" <farson@s...>[snip] Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper thefilter the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of offfrequency signals as well as on frequency signals.I should like to disagree. Neither of my two filters ring. Signals 5 kHz off frequency sneak past the 500 Hz and the 250 Hz filters in the Icom IC-706mkiiG. I know it is "blow-by" because I hear the signals offset by the correct amount (2.5 kHz to 7.5 kHz) as high pitched (Morse). I can tune in these signals and of course they are _much_ louder inside the filter passband. Signal strengths I am talking about are 40 over S9 within the filter passband and S5 or less when "blowing by" the filter. I trust that this is not going to be an issue with the ic7000 Scanned by WinProxy |
Re: Lead Acid Application
Hi Mark,
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Single SLA (gel) cells are often available in the surplus market. Cheers for now, 73, Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ -----Original Message-----
From: Mark Brueggemann [mailto:qrq_cw@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 13:56 To: ic7000@... Subject: [ic7000] Lead Acid Application The output of a 7-cell lead-acid battery under C/10 load will rangeWorks in principle, but short of buying discrete (and very large) 2V cells and making your own battery, where do you find 7 cell batteries? ===== Mark K5LXP Albuquerque, NM Yahoo! Groups Links Scanned by WinProxy |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
If you are correct with pricing then it will be
a big mistake for ICOM. P49K --- In ic7000@..., MKM <mab2000@v...> wrote: Respectfully I disagree.soon- -not |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
MKM
Respectfully I disagree.
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Icom seems to have their own pricing agenda. In a sense they do not compete with Yaesu or Kenwood in their minds. I truly believe that they believe they are the best and charge accordingly for their radios. Of course I want lower prices like everyone else but, this time I truly believe the radio will cost around the price I stated before. Again they will not compete with the likes of yaesu ft857 and such. People will still buy the ft857. Most of the people on this group will go for the 7000, especially owners of 7800 and pro3s. I always been an Icom person. This is like being an Apple fan. Yes they charge more, but boy what an experience. -best On Feb 25, 2005, at 3:39 PM, p49k wrote:
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Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
jdow
If you say so. I have the graphs here that say you are misinterpreting
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what you are seeing and hearing. What you are calling blow by of CW signals is indeed ringing. It is a vicious problem with sharp filters. I spent quite some effort for a fast frequency hopping radio getting the ringing down to levels such that I did not experience jamming by strong adjacent channel signals simply due to this basic property of filters. A softer stop band curve will show less ringing for signals outside the passband. It will snow less attenuation of pure continuous carriers. At some point there is an optimal compromise for your given application. I note that the basic ProII filters are VERY sharp. As such mathematical analysis of the filter properties suggests you will get filter output excited by signals outside the filter's passband and that this will be an annoying problem in most cases. It will be an issue with any transceiver that has a very sharp CW filter. There's nothing that can be done about it. As an aside what engineers call blow by is actual signal leakage around the filter when tested with continuous carriers. The digital filters appear to have precious little of this blow by. The filter lobes are far enough below the passband level that you're talking of a fantasy world with better filtering the last I checked on my ProII. I really figure what CW operators call blow by is something entirely different, filter ringing due to excitation from off frequency signals. The more "key click" the off frequency signal has the worse this ringing will be. And note that the ringing will not necessarily be classic 100Hz single crystal filter ringing that happens with on frequency signals due simply to the narrow pass band. If you want to use filters correctly in weak signal vs. strong signal environments it does pay to understand your filter characteristics very intimately so you can make useful compromises. {^_^} W5MKU, who has considerable experience designing exotic receivers and frequency synthesizers usually for military applications. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...> --- In ic7000@..., "jdow" <jdow@e...> wrote:From: "Adam Farson" <farson@s...>[snip]Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper thefilterthe more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of offfrequencysignals as well as on frequency signals.I should like to disagree. Neither of my two filters ring. Signals 5 |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
I agree with Paul,
I say it will be in the ballpark of the 857D. the Kenwood 480 has more power or built in antenna tuner to "almost" justify it's cost. It would have to have more bands like 222MHz to be worth more than what an 857D goes for. P49K --- In ic7000@..., Paul Manuel <k4pdm@y...> wrote: with PS125, and more than twice the price of the Yaesu FT-857D. It isaround twice the Kenwood TS-480SAT's cost. However great the 7000 is, theprimary use will be mobile, and must compete for sales with other mobilerigs. If it comes in drastically above the others, I think it will drop soon--not necessarily to their level, but not twice that much, either. |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Ya`akov N. Miles
--- In ic7000@..., "jdow" <jdow@e...> wrote:
From: "Adam Farson" <farson@s...>[snip] Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper thefilter the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of offfrequency signals as well as on frequency signals.I should like to disagree. Neither of my two filters ring. Signals 5 kHz off frequency sneak past the 500 Hz and the 250 Hz filters in the Icom IC-706mkiiG. I know it is "blow-by" because I hear the signals offset by the correct amount (2.5 kHz to 7.5 kHz) as high pitched (Morse). I can tune in these signals and of course they are _much_ louder inside the filter passband. Signal strengths I am talking about are 40 over S9 within the filter passband and S5 or less when "blowing by" the filter. I trust that this is not going to be an issue with the ic7000 |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Paul Manuel
--- MKM <mab2000@...> wrote:
agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.I don't think it will be that high. That is more than the 746PRO with PS125, and more than twice the price of the Yaesu FT-857D. It is around twice the Kenwood TS-480SAT's cost. However great the 7000 is, the primary use will be mobile, and must compete for sales with other mobile rigs. If it comes in drastically above the others, I think it will drop soon--not necessarily to their level, but not twice that much, either. But my crystal ball is still cracked... 73, Paul K4PDM __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Hi Joanne,
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Actually, the safe end-point of discharge for a lead-acid cell is 1.8V (10.8V for a 6-cell, 12V battery). Hence the end-cell. The output of a 7-cell lead-acid battery under C/10 load will range from 14.7V (fully-charged, off the charger) to 12.6V (safe end-point of discharge.) In practice, it is unlikely that a Field Day setup will have a 200 Ah battery (C/10 = 20A). Thus, the output voltage under full transmit load will be less than the nominal value at both ends of the range, and the discharge curve will be correspondingly shorter. Oh well, chalk up a sulphated battery to FD incidentals... Cheers for now, 73, Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ -----Original Message-----
From: jdow [mailto:jdow@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 12:00 To: ic7000@... Subject: Re: [ic7000] How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? From: "Adam Farson" <farson@...> 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging systemAnd if you draw down below 12 volts you generally destroy the battery if you repeat this very often or go significantly below 12 volts. But who cares about that if it's field day and you want an extra 5 minutes out of the battery? {^_^} Yahoo! Groups Links Scanned by WinProxy |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
jdow
From: "Adam Farson" <farson@...>
Filter ringing is probably what he is hearing. The sharper the filter the more the filter rings. And it will ring to the tune of off frequency signals as well as on frequency signals. {^_^} |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
jdow
From: "Adam Farson" <farson@...>
3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed charging systemAnd if you draw down below 12 volts you generally destroy the battery if you repeat this very often or go significantly below 12 volts. But who cares about that if it's field day and you want an extra 5 minutes out of the battery? {^_^} |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
jdow
From: "Ya`akov N. Miles" <ve7alq@...>
Infinite dollars today. Does anyone know more about the filter options. Your English uploadDSP filters not crystal filters. With dual passband tuning you can get just about any passband and center frequency in 50Hz and 100Hz steps respectively as long as it remains below the basic bandwidth setting for the filter, which is also variable in principle. Does the IC-7000 transmitter conk out around 12 volts like theIt does not run on batteries at this time. But that is because it does not run at all at this time. Apparently it is still in design not production. {^_-} W6MKU |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Hi Ya'akov,
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By the nature of things, the concept of "blow-by" does not exist in a DSP filter. By definition, a bitstream cannot blow by a mathematical process through which the DSP algorithm compels it to pass. A single 2.1V (nominal) end-cell is another solution to the lead-acid battery-voltage drop-off problem. This technique is often used in stationary battery plant for telecom installations. The behaviour of the IC-7000 for Vin < 12V is yet to be determined. Cheers for now, 73, Adam VA7OJ/AB4OJ -----Original Message-----
From: Ya`akov N. Miles [mailto:ve7alq@...] Sent: 25 February 2005 11:25 To: ic7000@... Subject: [ic7000] Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me? --- In ic7000@..., Adam Farson <farson@s...> wrote: Hi Ya'akov,USD 1100 ~ 1200 range.[snip] The defaults for CW will probably be the same as on the Pro series - 1.2 kHz, 500 Hz and 250 Hz. I believe that you areexist in the DSP IF subsystem, as the DSP filters have far better shapefactors than are attainable with two cascaded analogue filters.My Icom IC7006mkiiG does not cascade the filters. There is a considerable amount of "Blow By" the narrower (250 Hz 500 Hz) filters. It will be interesting to see if Icom addresses the "Blow By" issue 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed chargingsystem should hold the battery at around 13.5V.[snip] True, while charging the battery. But when discharging the battery (for example on Field Day) you are out of luck, unless you buy Leo's Battery Booster at I know a number of IC-706xx users who have gone that route. Yahoo! Groups Links Scanned by WinProxy |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
Ya`akov N. Miles
--- In ic7000@..., Adam Farson <farson@s...> wrote:
Hi Ya'akov,USD 1100 ~ 1200 range.[snip] The defaults for CW will probably be the same as on the Pro series - 1.2 kHz, 500 Hz and 250 Hz. I believe that you areexist in the DSP IF subsystem, as the DSP filters have far better shapefactors than are attainable with two cascaded analogue filters.My Icom IC7006mkiiG does not cascade the filters. There is a considerable amount of "Blow By" the narrower (250 Hz 500 Hz) filters. It will be interesting to see if Icom addresses the "Blow By" issue 3. Nobody knows yet. In any event, a properly-designed chargingsystem should hold the battery at around 13.5V.[snip] True, while charging the battery. But when discharging the battery (for example on Field Day) you are out of luck, unless you buy Leo's Battery Booster at I know a number of IC-706xx users who have gone that route. |
Re: How much is the IC-7000 going to cost me?
MKM
agreed...it will be like the pro3..a little overpriced.
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I still say we will pay around $1,799. On Feb 25, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Keith LaBorde - K4KAL wrote:
It may be like the PROIII... |
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