I use a Kester 186 flux pen.? I've used it on lead solder (which is all I use), HASL boards (nominal Chinese made), and ENIG (used to use Oshpark, but the boards were too expensive).
Noe that this is not "no clean" which is reported to be more aggressive in its action.? I clean this with either isopropl alcohol (works mostly, leaves some residue behind because of the water), or standard flux cleaner.
Harvey
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 10/23/2020 7:17 PM, Dave wrote: Anybody have any recommendations on a good flux pen? Maybe refillable? I have all kinds of flux but no flux pen. Figured I would add one or two to my kit. And best flux type for soldering with lead solder and ENIG pcbs?
Thanks,
Dave
|
Anybody have any recommendations on a good flux pen? Maybe refillable? I have all kinds of flux but no flux pen. Figured I would add one or two to my kit. And best flux type for soldering with lead solder and ENIG pcbs?
Thanks,
Dave
|
Re: PCB through hole activation for copper plating
Hi all, I tried it, unsuccessfully.?
In my experiments, it works, but not reliably enough to be really useful. Even getting 95% or even 99% of the vias activated is awful, because you cannot trust what you built.
Maybe it is possible to get better results, but I doubt it would be practical. You should try it though, these were fun experiments!
Le mar. 11 ao?t 2020 à 11:07, MVS Sarma < mvssarma@...> a écrit?: I sawc ideos using graphite powder or its based ink as substitute for pth conductive formation later copper electroplating.?
Hope it helps.? May be toonthin holes may not be coverable.?
|
Re: PCB through hole activation for copper plating
I sawc ideos using graphite powder or its based ink as substitute for pth conductive formation later copper electroplating.?
Hope it helps.? May be toonthin holes may not be coverable.?
|
Re: PCB through hole activation for copper plating
Ah, now there, I have some better tools perhaps than average.
Stereo binocular microscope, Metcal soldering and desoldering
equipment with a reasonable amount of tips, and enough experience
(hard gained) to manage to do a decent job.
I normally deal with parts 0608 and larger, TQFP with 0.5 mm pin
spacing, and double sided boards (cause they're cheaper).? There's
a modicum of through hole parts as needed, but mostly all SMD.?
The through hole devices are mostly pin headers at this point.
I'd likely use *their* assembly services *if* I had to use a
BGA.? Managed to avoid that so far.? Don't have the desire or
ability to do them properly.
For parts, I manage to use what I find at hamfests, which is
likely obsolete, but still good. (as in: works).? Not sure that
they'd have them, but if I have a few hundred, I'll see what I can
design with them.
Harvey
On 8/1/2020 6:29 PM, gnuarm wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 07:51 PM, Harvey White wrote:
all of this VERY much depends on the level of complexity of
your board.? Me?? I've moved to Chinese made boards with 6 mil
traces, TQFP-144 chips and plated through holes.? I don't know
how to make them myself.
Harvey
I also find assembly to be a pain.? There is a house that makes
the PCB and will assemble your board.? The only catch is you have
to use parts in their list of 15,000 or so.? That may be too
restrictive for professional use, but for many home projects it's
ok.? It's also hard to search the parts for electrical parameters
like you can at Digikey.? Still, if you have the time to search
the part categories one at a time it is an inexpensive way to get
a board built.
|
Re: PCB through hole activation for copper plating
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 07:51 PM, Harvey White wrote:
all of this VERY much depends on the level of complexity of your board.? Me?? I've moved to Chinese made boards with 6 mil traces, TQFP-144 chips and plated through holes.? I don't know how to make them myself.
Harvey
I also find assembly to be a pain.? There is a house that makes the PCB and will assemble your board.? The only catch is you have to use parts in their list of 15,000 or so.? That may be too restrictive for professional use, but for many home projects it's ok.? It's also hard to search the parts for electrical parameters like you can at Digikey.? Still, if you have the time to search the part categories one at a time it is an inexpensive way to get a board built.
|
YEs... I agree...
an image should be simple with zero password web
sites to traverse or hassle you with a nonstop stream of
advertisements
and
that is why I use image links... to my web site?
On 07/28/2020 05:31 AM, Donald H Locker
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Better to put the photo or file in the group's photo or file space so
people don't have to register/sign in to/visit [possibly sketchy]
foreign sites.
</g/homebrewpcbs/files>
or
</g/homebrewpcbs/photos>
We all benefit from keeping the files in the group.
Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\
On 2020-07-28 1:52 a.m., brane212 wrote:
On mailing lists, in general, no.
Upload image somewhere ( like on your google account under "images") and
post the link to there.
Images would enlarge emails and this could overload list mail server and
be used as an DDOS attack. Also, once you allow bibnary content, it's
hardfor it to be controlled ( virii, other harmfull and illegal content
etc).
On 28. 07. 20 05:34, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not appear when I received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look
like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids did
not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I went
to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have
consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its
shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
|
F1CHF added folder PCB manufacturers
The following files have been uploaded to
the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: F1CHF
Description:
following our discussion
this is a list of PCB manufacteurers
update are welcome
F1CHF at free.fr
|
Better to put the photo or file in the group's photo or file space so people don't have to register/sign in to/visit [possibly sketchy] foreign sites. < /g/homebrewpcbs/files> or < /g/homebrewpcbs/photos> We all benefit from keeping the files in the group. Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ <>
On 2020-07-28 1:52 a.m., brane212 wrote: On mailing lists, in general, no.
Upload image somewhere ( like on your google account under "images") and
post the link to there.
Images would enlarge emails and this could overload list mail server and
be used as an DDOS attack. Also, once you allow bibnary content, it's
hardfor it to be controlled ( virii, other harmfull and illegal content
etc).
On 28. 07. 20 05:34, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not appear when I received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look
like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids did
not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I went
to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have
consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its
shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf
Of brane212
Sent: 28 July 2020 06:52
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [homebrewpcbs] Videos
On mailing lists, in general, no.
Upload image somewhere ( like on your google account under "images") and
post the link to there.
Images would enlarge emails and this could overload list mail server and be
used as an DDOS attack. Also, once you allow bibnary content, it's hardfor it
to be controlled ( virii, other harmfull and illegal content etc).
On 28. 07. 20 05:34, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not appear when I received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look
like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids did
not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I went
to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have
consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its
shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light
color/surroundigs, or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news: Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news: You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<
node.net/AVTOMATIKA/MEDIAKIT2020/MEDIAKIT2020.PDF>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<
ENG.PDF>*
* ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
* Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
It looks you could use benefits of PCB's ability to do clearance and
connectivity checking.
See if you can use gEDA schematics. If not, see if you can use PCB directly.
Place elements on board, name them, enter the desierd pin-top pino connections ( lines on the ratsnest layer) and from that point on PCB will know what should be conencted to what and it will be able to check it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28. 07. 20 06:31, Rob via groups.io wrote: OK
so
this is the image:
On 07/28/2020 01:52 AM, brane212 wrote:
On mailing lists, in general, no.
Upload image somewhere ( like on your google account under "images") and post the link to there.
Images would enlarge emails and this could overload list mail server and
be used as an DDOS attack. Also, once you allow bibnary content, it's hardfor it to be controlled ( virii, other harmfull and illegal content etc).
On 28. 07. 20 05:34, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not appear when I received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids did not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I went to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
OK
so
this is the image:
On 07/28/2020 01:52 AM, brane212 wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On
mailing lists, in general, no.
Upload image somewhere ( like on your google account under
"images") and post the link to there.
Images would enlarge emails and this could overload list mail
server and
be used as an DDOS attack. Also, once you allow bibnary content,
it's hardfor it to be controlled ( virii, other harmfull and
illegal content etc).
On 28. 07. 20 05:34, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not appear when I
received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters
look like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped
me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air
space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks
like to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my
kids did not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I
went to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge
& shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster"
change its shape with time/angle/distance/light
intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to
normal ?
;o)
|
On mailing lists, in general, no.
Upload image somewhere ( like on your google account under "images") and post the link to there.
Images would enlarge emails and this could overload list mail server and
be used as an DDOS attack. Also, once you allow bibnary content, it's hardfor it to be controlled ( virii, other harmfull and illegal content etc).
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28. 07. 20 05:34, Rob via groups.io wrote: Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not appear when I received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids did not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I went to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
Just curious....
I put an image in this email but it did not
appear when I received it.
Are images not allowed?
On 07/27/2020 11:11 PM, Rob via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters
look like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped
me acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air
space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like
to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my
kids did not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I
went to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212
wrote:
BTW,
out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you
have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change
its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light
color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal
?
;o)
|
Mushrooms might help.
Its a light issue.
The more light... the more the distortion.
On white paper .... white screen..black text.....the letters look
like PAC MAN bit pieces out of the letters.
When it first started I thought my hippie teenage kids slipped me
acid.
I saw what looked like a light pole floating in free air
space....
so I played with an image to show my doctors what it looks like
to me.
Funny thing was when my doctor told me the good news was my kids
did not slip me acid....
and I replied... "thats not good news..... acid wears off... I
went to high school in the 70s."
On 07/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
BTW,
out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you
have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change
its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light
color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
|
really bad news:
You are in the original series and you're wearing a red shirt. You are NOT chief engineer Scott.
Harvey
There are glasses called "systems of sight" that work for macular degeneration, no idea how expensive or how well.? Have to be crafted for each case
H.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7/27/2020 10:16 PM, brane212 wrote: BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news:??? Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news:???? You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
On 27. 07. 20 18:52, Rob via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
??? Wish you to recover soober Rob
??? Regards
??? Sarma? vu3zmv
??? On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
??? <roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
??????? My vision is impaired.
??????? I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
??????? everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
??????? I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
??????? electronics.
??????? and
??????? all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
??????? buttons
??????? onscreen
??????? and
??????? all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
??????? tripping
??????? accidentally over them
??????? so
??????? I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
??????? "caveman" simple
??????? ... paint on the wall.....
??????? and get the desired results.
??????? and
??????? I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
??????? really at
??????? all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
??????? the
??????? advanced CAD
??????? programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
??????? There is something for everybody here.
??????? I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
??????? Neat stuff.
??????? Have fun.
??????? I am.
??????? On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
??????? > Don0t see the point.
??????? >
??????? > gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
??????? >
??????? > Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
??????? knwow
??????? > anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
??????? without
??????? > schematic.
??????? >
??????? > Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
??????? > BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
??????? schematic.
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
??????? > documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
??????? to be
??????? > connected with what).
??????? >
??????? > PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
??????? element.
??????? > You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
??????? >
??????? > Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
??????? are made
??????? > easily, once your example contains anything more than one
??????? transistor
??????? > and couple resistors.
??????? >
??????? > With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
??????? importi in
??????? > Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
??????? import EPS of
??????? > wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
??????? >
??????? > Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
??????? > probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
??????? have
??????? > bigger board and more layers.
??????? >
??????? > Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
??????? >
??????? > Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
??????? gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
??????? > golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
??????? sending it to
??????? > manuifacturing.
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
??????? >> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
??????? >> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
??????? >>
??????? >> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
??????? >>
??????? >> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
??????? claims to fame
??????? >> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
??????? again... for me
??????? >> and my tinkering with building
??????? >>
??????? >> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
??????? suffering
??????? >> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
??????? crazy glue
??????? >> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> It always starts with a schematic.
??????? >>
??????? >> so.....
??????? >>
??????? >> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
??????? GIMP image
??????? >> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
???????
??????? >>
??????? >> These images came from :
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
??????? black ink pen
??????? >> tool and
??????? >> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
??????? in red or
??????? >> purple
??????? >> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
??????? connections.
??????? >> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
??????? diodes standing
??????? >> on one end.
??????? >>
??????? >> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
??????? easier for
??????? >> kids and newbies to
??????? >> succesfully build a radio.
??????? >> AND
??????? >> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
??????? of the
??????? >> board to accomodate
??????? >> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
??????? and purple
??????? >> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
??????? is a $5
??????? >> short wave receiver
??????? >>
??????? >> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
??????? simple to
??????? >> reproduce succesfully.
??????? >>
??????? >> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
??????? >>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
??????? routing of the
??????? >>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
??????? etc. I too
??????? >>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
??????? >>> Micrographics Designer V3x
??????? >>> Charlie
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? And then
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
??????? you may not
??????? >>> ??? need CAD.
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
??????? ANY EAGLE
??????? >>> ??? or any other CAD program.
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? Rob
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Now questions:
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
??????? layer, or 4
??????? >>>> ??? layer boards?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
??????? (it makes a
??????? >>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
??????? cost/who
??????? >>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
??????? into the
??????? >>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
??????? breakouts?
??????? >>>> ??? ground posts?)
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
??????? >>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner? what?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
??????? design something,
??????? >>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
??????? need before
??????? >>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
??????? whether or not
??????? >>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
??????? some of these
??????? >>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
??????? what you
??????? >>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
??????? flatpacks.
??????? >>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
??????? builds them).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
??????? screen, but
??????? >>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
??????? 10 mil
??????? >>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
??????? and bottom
??????? >>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
??????? (it makes a
??????? >>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
??????? board house
??????? >>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
??????? the boards.?
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
??????? for some
??????? >>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
??????? through, designs
??????? >>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 9) lots
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? Harvey
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>>
??????? >>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
??????? <> wrote:
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
??????? designing with their
??????? >>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>>> ??? Thanks
??????? >>>>>
??????? >>>
??????? >>
??????? >>
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
|
BTW, out of curiosity, is that edge & shape distortion that you have consistent ?
IOW, on those girls=monsters example, does each "monster" change its shape with time/angle/distance/light intensity/light color/surroundigs,
or is each "monster" always the same ?
BTW2:
Good news: Your life is now a Star Trek.
Bad news: You are not Captain Kirk or Commander Riker.
;o)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27. 07. 20 18:52, Rob via groups.io wrote: Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
<roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one
transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
<> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
Good news - you need mushrooms daily to return vision to normal ?
;o)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 27. 07. 20 18:52, Rob via groups.io wrote: Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
<roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
My vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one
transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
<> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Branko Badrljica
Chief Editor/glavni urednik
g. +386 (0)40/423-303 ? t. +386 (0)59/156-643
*Medija kit (predstavitev in cenik)
<>*
*Arhiv Avtomatike+E
<>* *Revija
Avtomatika+E Online <>*
*Media kit (intro & pricelist)
<>*
*?ARCHIVE Avtomatika+E
<>*
*?Avtomatika+E Online <>*
<>
S5TEHNIKA.net d.o.o.
SOSTRSKA CESTA 43C
1261 Ljubljana Dobrunje
ID za DDV: SI81396236
|
Sparing the details.....? I have retina problems
and its not macular degeneration.
I just describe it as something like macular degeneration
because most people have heard of macular degeneration.
MORE IMPORTANTLY...............
I share with the group how to HOME BREW PCBs
using the most simple of tooling which works out for
us old timers who have vision troubles.
?
On 07/27/2020 07:10 AM, Dave Daniel
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have Wet Macular Degeneration in one eye. Wet
Macular Degeneration is a condition that results from blood
vessels growing up through the eye’s epithelial layer and
lifting the retina off of the epithelial layer, thus starving
the retinal cells of the ability to regenerate. The condition
may be controlled but not cured by injecting ?a medecine called
Eyelea into to eyeball every few weeks. The medecine inhibits
the growth of the blood vessels. The condition naturally gets
worse, slowly, over time and is irreversible. Eventually (so I’m
told) one loses one’s eyesight in the affected eye. My eyesight
in the affected eye had gone from 20/25 to 20/100 over the past
seven years.
Dry Macular Degeneration is a different condition
for which, at present, there is no treatment.
DaveD
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
My
vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up
retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I
tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of
tools and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by
me tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and
stick "caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW
PCBS is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie
on PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component
libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff
you need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it
to be a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define
an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from
drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that
you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist (
what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no
concept of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP
etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts
and breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more
than one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just
export EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY
panelization - import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you
wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent
resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really
slow, once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP
for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design
before sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via
wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home
brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided?
(D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I
make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and
again and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch
without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or
loose wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a
week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and
open it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines
with a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw
the components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate
physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have
resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it
makes it much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the
copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight
spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase
all the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I
share because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world...
because it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final
outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a
"puzzle" with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy
power traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to
use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer
to help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I
have not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital??
Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do
you need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design
them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a
difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program
you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with
PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug
do you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads??
logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you
have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this
before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in
electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner??
what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a
bearing on *how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how
many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound
complicated, but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you
are in experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.?
Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin
flatpacks when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated
through holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have
done toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double
sided, wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design
them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm
because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch)
license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount,
can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for
digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground
connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided
boards, not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to
make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some
analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different
opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM,
davethetechman via
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any
personal videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago
and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a
Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.
Wish you to recover soober Rob
Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv
My
vision is impaired.
I have something like macular degeneration messed up
retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so
I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I
tinker with
electronics.
and
all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools
and buttons
onscreen
and
all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them
so
I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....
and get the desired results.
and
I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS
is really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on
PCB to the
advanced CAD
programs with detailed granularity tracking component
libraries.
There is something for everybody here.
I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.
Neat stuff.
Have fun.
I am.
On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you
need to knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be
a pain without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an
element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from
drawqing a schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you
need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist (
what ought to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept
of element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and
breaks are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than
one transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export
EPS ina importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization
- import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent
resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow,
once you have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for
this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via
wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing
your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided?
(D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I
make no claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again
and again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch
without suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose
wires or crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a
week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open
it in GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:
>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with
a fat black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the
components in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate
physical parts connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have
resistors or diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it
much easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the
copper side of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight
spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all
the text and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share
because it is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because
it is so simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final
outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle"
with the routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power
traces, etc etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use
a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to
help you... but you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have
not yet used ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital??
Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you
need 1 layer, 2 layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a
difference in either cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you
use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC
board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do
you want to put into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads??
logic analyzer breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you
have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in
electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on
*how* you design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how
many copies you'll need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that
one.....), and whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated,
but answers to some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in
experience, and what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog.?
Have done 100 pin flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks
when someone else builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through
holes, silk screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done
toner transfer, 10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided,
wire stitch top and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these
boards yourself? (it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm
because of the board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch)
license, can't sell the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can
always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for
digital, pin headers for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground
connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards,
not plated through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some
analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different
opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman
via
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal
videos of designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
|
Rick Collins