Hello,
Sounds like a very useful group.
Bob B.

Here are some tips I used for making double
sided pcbs.



Ciao,

..Dave Saum
My Fun Page

My Inexpensive Seismometer Project Page

My Business Page

My Link Page

My Gold Prospecting Near Washington, DC Page

--- pcbug99 <pcbug99@...> wrote:

Hello,
Sounds like a very useful group.
Bob B.

I hope so!

=====
Steve Greenfield // Digital photo scanning, retouching,
Polymorph Digital Photography // and photomorphing to your specs.
253/879-0426 voice // We use the best little computer in
polymorph@... // the world, the Amiga!
// Based in Tacoma, WA, USA

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Dave,
Good info and timely, (I have a small board for a hobby project that
I need to make). Was planning to engrave it mechanically but etching
would be lots better. Will use a dremel mounted in a CNC Sherline
mill to drill the holes tho. Didn't know that laser toner would stick
to the copper. Will sure give it a try.
Thanks,
Al
PS Good luck with the list!

This group sure looks like a good idea.

I have several interests. One is trying the CuCl etching method. See:



for details. It looks cheap, and minimizes environmental impact. I am
interested in hearing from anyone with related experience.

Another is trying to make prototypes with laser-printed PCB patterns
more consistent. At present I use Dyna Art paper which I like.

I haven't tried any other method, though, and am interested in
inexpensive alternatives which work. For example, I read somewhere on
the net that clay-coated 80 pound (I think) paper works well. I have
been unable to find it at Staples here in Canada though apparently it
is available in the US.

I also have some old silk screens with old PCB patterns. (Many are
from early Elektor projects, though they are not labelled, so I am not
sure what each one is. I plan to clean these screens and reclaim them,
unless someone can help me identify the Elektor projects. In
exchange I would try printing some of the patterns on PCB's.

I think Javex does the trick to remove the old silkscreen stencil. I
am interested in learning about how to apply new photoemulsion to the
silk screen, and reproduce PCB art on the silk screen.

I use Ivex WinBoard. Does anyone know if there is a way to laser print
the PCB pattern to mylar or the like (clear plastic), and use this to
print to the photoemulsion.? Is there a computer method to turn a PCB
pattern to a negative one, for laser printing? Is there a photemulsion
which would respond to a laser printed positive on clear plastic, so
a negative would not be required?

That's it for now. I look forward to seeing the group grow and pool
knowledge and experience.

Grant

Hi Grant

try the glossy inkjet photo papers they are clay-coated to give them the gloss
some of the heavier weights (80-120#) have a thin plastic film just under the
clay layer that makes them hard to soak off (HP Premium I think) but most will
soak thru and release the clay prety well
I've had fairly good results from Epson and the lighter weight HP papers

Brian

Hi everybody!
Does anybody know how to print on top of the pcb.
(Like you see on electronic building kits, where the components are
marked on top of the pcb)

Great work on setting up one new group Steve :)

Best regards
Thor

A while ago I put together a webpage distilling many years of
experience making quality homebrew PCBs, including useful sources of
materials etc.
As I may change ISPs soon, I won't give a direct page link, but go to
www.electricstuff.co.uk & click on "How to make really good homebrew
PCBs" near the bottom of the page.

Thanks!

You want to do the (usually) silkscreened component
outlines.

You could use toner transfer on the top of the board,
I don't know if it will stick to the fiberglass. Or
you could use a plotter, although that might be fun to
line up.

Try plotting just the board outline on the carrier
paper without the board, then disable the board
outline and plot just the component outlines. Make
sure none of your lines intersect any holes or edges.

If you have a plotter with more than one pen you can
do this in color.

Have a look in the Links section of the group
homepage, I've added some links for Toner Transfer and
using a Plotter.

Steve

--- thor918 <thor918@...> wrote:

Hi everybody!
Does anybody know how to print on top of the pcb.
(Like you see on electronic building kits, where the
components are
marked on top of the pcb)

Great work on setting up one new group Steve :)

Best regards
Thor


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Thanks!

You want to do the (usually) silkscreened component
outlines.

You could use toner transfer on the top of the board,
I don't know if it will stick to the fiberglass. Or
you could use a plotter, although that might be fun to
line up.

Try plotting just the board outline on the carrier
paper without the board, then disable the board
outline and plot just the component outlines. Make
sure none of your lines intersect any holes or edges.

If you have a plotter with more than one pen you can
do this in color.

Have a look in the Links section of the group
homepage, I've added some links for Toner Transfer and
using a Plotter.

Steve

--- thor918 <thor918@...> wrote:

Hi everybody!
Does anybody know how to print on top of the pcb.
(Like you see on electronic building kits, where the
components are
marked on top of the pcb)

Great work on setting up one new group Steve :)

Best regards
Thor

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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "grantfair2001" <grant.fair@s...> wrote:

This group sure looks like a good idea.

A very good idea.

I also have some old silk screens with old PCB patterns. (Many are
from early Elektor projects, though they are not labelled, so I am

not

sure what each one is. I plan to clean these screens and reclaim

them,

unless someone can help me identify the Elektor projects. In
exchange I would try printing some of the patterns on PCB's.

I think Javex does the trick to remove the old silkscreen stencil.

I

am interested in learning about how to apply new photoemulsion to

the

silk screen, and reproduce PCB art on the silk screen.

I haven't used the Javex product so I don't know about that one. Do
you know what photo emulsion was used to create the screens? If so,
they should be able to point you to a good reclaiming solution. I
have used mainly Ulano products and have had good luck with them.
Mind you, this was for printing T-shirts and decals but the process
is identical.

I use Ivex WinBoard. Does anyone know if there is a way to laser

print

the PCB pattern to mylar or the like (clear plastic), and use this

to

print to the photoemulsion.? Is there a computer method to turn a

PCB

pattern to a negative one, for laser printing? Is there a

photemulsion

which would respond to a laser printed positive on clear plastic,

so

a negative would not be required?

I have been using the photo process for my boards for a while now. I
had very mixed results with the iron on products or even plain
paper. I have been able to get very small traces to take using the
photo process. I'll give a little info on how I make it work without
professionally shot film.

First, I am using MG Chemicals, double sided, pre-sensitized boards.
They aren't cheap but they seem to be rather consistent. These
boards are for use with a positive imaged film.

I create the layout and then create a bounding box the same size as
the blank board I am using. I can cut the excess board away after
etching if necessary. I print two copies of each side of the board
onto laser transparency. I then cut the corners and sides off of one
of the pieces of film for each side so that I can tape them on top of
each other, perfectly alligned. This will help create nice dark
traces so that there is no light bleed through during the exposing
process. I align them on a light table making sure that they are
completely flat and that there are no gaps between the
transparencies. I then take a Sharpie marker and fill in the light
areas on the toner side of each taped together transparency set.
When I screw up and get sharpie on the clear portion, a Q-tip and
some alcohol will remove it. This process will make for a very clean
film that will expose a board very well with no worries about
exposing areas where the toner is thin.

After both sides' film are complete, I expose the board on one side,
using the box printed on the film aligned with the outside edges of
the board. This will make both sides very easy to align, as long as
you get the film the right way up (learned that one the hard way). I
also got a scrap of 1/2" thick acrylic to use as a weight to keep the
film tight against the board during the exposure. This minimizes the
chances of light getting under the edges of small traces.

I have had very good success with this method.

Hope this helps,

Chris

I added it to the Links. Let me know if your URL
changes.

I also added your site to the Mad Scientist mailing
list.

Steve

--- mikentb123 <mike@...> wrote:

A while ago I put together a webpage distilling many
years of
experience making quality homebrew PCBs, including
useful sources of
materials etc.
As I may change ISPs soon, I won't give a direct
page link, but go to
www.electricstuff.co.uk & click on "How to make
really good homebrew
PCBs" near the bottom of the page.


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开云体育

?

Hello to all!!!
I have asked this question on the picbasic list but no answers.
a couple of thought but !!!!
now I ask all of you on the homebrew board.
instead of transfers from laser printer to copper.
how about just buying a thin copper sheet say 3mil or so.
then run the copper through the laser printer and print your art work.
once that's done laminate the copper to a fiberglass board.
then etch as normal.
would this work????
does anyone see any problems with this?
or the question should be will the laser printer print to copper sheeting??
thank you
regards
Victor Faria

I would worry a lot about the drum getting scratched.
The copper would just have to get bent up very
slightly on an edge and you'd ruin the expensive drum.

A friend of mine used to use a laser printer to print
directly on PCB. It was some huge old thing that had a
board straight paper path. He very thoroughly deburred
the edges first.

How about those wax thermal/resin printers that print
right onto CDs? You'd only need a single color. You'd
have to either make your PCB the size and shape of a
CD or make a carrier.

Or maybe there is a market for a modified CD printer
like this. Make sure you get one that is not inkjet
and does not require special coatings. I found one for
about $2500 that is wax thermal ribbon and does not
require coated CDs. It is called the Primera Inscripta
and it is 610x305 dpi and does a CD in 5 to 10
seconds. I know, not 600dpi which is what common
wisdom says your laser printer should be for toner
transfer, but this way you don't have the transfer
step that causes lines to mush out.

It is only two colors (at once) but who cares? You
only need one color, and you can flip it over and
print the component layout.

Docs say you can take it out of the case and fit it in
a drive bay, so you could do PCB printing with zero
desktop space!

OK, who's gonna by me one to try this out? ;')







Here it is for only $2075!



Y'know, you all missed my birthday, but Christmas is
coming up soon... :'>

Steve Greenfield

--- victor Faria <victorf@...> wrote:

Hello to all!!!
I have asked this question on the picbasic list but
no answers.
a couple of thought but !!!!
now I ask all of you on the homebrew board.
instead of transfers from laser printer to copper.
how about just buying a thin copper sheet say 3mil
or so.
then run the copper through the laser printer and
print your art work.
once that's done laminate the copper to a fiberglass
board.
then etch as normal.
would this work????
does anyone see any problems with this?
or the question should be will the laser printer
print to copper sheeting??
thank you
regards
Victor Faria

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开云体育

Hello,

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Regards,

janrwl <JanRwl@...>

instead of transfers from laser printer to copper.
how about just buying a thin copper sheet say 3mil or so.
then run the copper through the laser printer and print your art work.

just tested this and it dosent work so well

I used 'Slug & Snail' tape its an adhesive backed copper foil
sold in the garden dept at some stores (Seattle area)
placed a small strip on a sheet of regular paper and ran a
test page on an HP laserjet 1200 (nice printer for toner transfers BTW)

got some of the letters,but many dropouts and the toner lifted off onto
the rolls and re-deposited itself further down the page (smear)
a second test page without the tape came
out clean and sharp ,so no damage done :-)

Brian