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Thanks Sarma....
but no recovery.... vision scrambled 19 years ago and I have not driven a car in 19 years.
But its not so bad. Everybody looks like a Picasso painting to me.
Good and bad.
Pretty girls look like monsters....? bent nose.... ears.....
BUT
ugly girls look like monsters to me..........
so everybody? looks the same to me.
On 07/27/2020 05:07 AM, MVS Sarma wrote:

Wish Rob? a stable and fast recovery.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:52 pm MVS Sarma via groups.io <>, <mvssarma@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Wish you to recover soober Rob

Regards
Sarma? vu3zmv

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 1:13 pm Rob via groups.io <>,
<roomberg@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

My vision is impaired.

I have something like macular degeneration messed up retinas and
everything looks crushed and twisted to me so

I need bigger, much bigger , everything .......when I tinker with
electronics.

and

all of the CAD interfaces have tiny text on racks of tools and
buttons
onscreen

and

all of the features and settings are easily trashed by me
tripping
accidentally over them

so

I step back and declare thats not my tool set and stick
"caveman" simple
... paint on the wall.....

and get the desired results.

and

I share these tidbits with you all because HOME BREW PCBS is
really at
all levels.....?? from the simple hand drawn sharpie on PCB to
the
advanced CAD

programs with detailed granularity tracking component libraries.


There is something for everybody here.

I learned how to make GERBER files last winter.

Neat stuff.

Have fun.

I am.














On 07/27/2020 03:28 AM, brane212 wrote:
> Don0t see the point.
>
> gEDA + PCB is not complicated. Just the opposite.
>
> Whatever the elarnign curve is, it affects stuff you need to
knwow
> anyway. YOu can use PCB directly, but I find it to be a pain
without
> schematic.
>
> Only slightly cryptic thing is to learn to define an element.
> BFew tidbits aside, it's not that different from drawqing a
schematic.
>
>
> Schematic is a good bookkeeping part that that you need for
> documentation and keeping the basis fro netlist ( what ought
to be
> connected with what).
>
> PCB contains stuff that you need. GIMP has no concept of
element.
> You can't just move the resistor pads in GIMP etc.
>
> Above, all GIMP can't keep you in check - shorts and breaks
are made
> easily, once your example contains anything more than one
transistor
> and couple resistors.
>
> With PCB, printing is relatively easy - just export EPS ina
importi in
> Inkscape. This way you can easily do DIY panelization -
import EPS of
> wantd layers, mirror them and arrange as you wish.
>
> Also, GIMP is raster-based. SO, to get deccent resolution, you
> probably need 1200 dpi. WHich can get really slow, once you
have
> bigger board and more layers.
>
> Really, no reason to torture yourself with GIMP for this.
>
> Don't know about KiCAD ( never liked it), but
gEDA+PCB+Inkscape is
> golden for this. Plus gerbview to check design before
sending it to
> manuifacturing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27. 07. 20 05:47, Rob via groups.io <> wrote:
>> Here's some tidbits to chew on for home brewing your own PCBs
>> "caveman" style.... without the aid of
>>
>> the complicated CAD....? (C)omputer (A)ided (D)esign software.
>>
>> Take this for what its worth for you.....?? I make no
claims to fame
>> here.... just massive success.. again and again and
again... for me
>> and my tinkering with building
>>
>> radios and other electronic toys from scratch without
suffering
>> through the indiginities of breadboard or loose wires or
crazy glue
>> pads failing to work then chasing tail for a week.
>>
>>
>> It always starts with a schematic.
>>
>> so.....
>>
>> I simply take a picture of the schematic and open it in
GIMP image
>> editer....?? learn here if you don't know it:

>>
>> These images came from :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then simply trace all of the thin lines with a fat
black ink pen
>> tool and
>> add donut holes for all components and draw the components
in red or
>> purple
>> and move things around enough to accomodate physical parts
connections.
>> AND ALWAYS LAY PARTs DOWN.... never have resistors or
diodes standing
>> on one end.
>>
>> Laying parts down uses more space but it makes it much
easier for
>> kids and newbies to
>> succesfully build a radio.
>> AND
>> laying parts down create HUGE pathways on the copper side
of the
>> board to accomodate
>> trace routing without being screwed by tight spacing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> and then I remove everything ... just erase all the text
and purple
>> and have toner transfer ready artwork.
>>
>>
>> This is one the the most simple examples I share because it
is a $5
>> short wave receiver
>>
>> that has been made all over the world... because it is so
simple to
>> reproduce succesfully.
>>
>> I few modifications later....?????? and final outcome was this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07/26/2020 10:24 PM, Charlie Hansen wrote:
>>> And then there's fun of solving a "puzzle" with the
routing of the
>>> traces, avoiding "ground loops", noisy power traces, etc
etc. I too
>>> haven't used Eagle etc, but I DO like to use a simple CAD like
>>> Micrographics Designer V3x
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> ??? And then
>>>
>>> ??? there's all sorts of CAD programmer to help you... but
you may not
>>> ??? need CAD.
>>>
>>> ??? I have made more than 100 PCBs and I have not yet used
ANY EAGLE
>>> ??? or any other CAD program.
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ??? On 07/25/2020 09:30 PM, Harvey White wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? Nope.? Don't do videos.
>>>>
>>>> ??? Now questions:
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing what?? Digital? Analog?? RF?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) what level of complexity?? Do you need 1 layer, 2
layer, or 4
>>>> ??? layer boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) how big are they (can make a difference in either
cost/who
>>>> ??? makes it or design/what program you use)?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) what program do you use?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) have you any experience with PC board design?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) what level of hardware debug do you want to put
into the
>>>> ??? boards (test points?? test pads? logic analyzer
breakouts?
>>>> ??? ground posts?)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) what kind of facilities do you have to make PC boards?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) have you done any of this before?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) what level (roughly) in electronics design are you
>>>> ??? comfortable with?? beginner?? what?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? All of these things have a bearing on *how* you
design something,
>>>> ??? what design you come up with, how many copies you'll
need before
>>>> ??? you get one that works (know that one.....), and
whether or not
>>>> ??? you can make the board yourself.
>>>>
>>>> ??? I know this may sound complicated, but answers to
some of these
>>>> ??? help others to gauge where you are in experience, and
what you
>>>> ??? need to know (IMHO, of course).
>>>>
>>>> ??? For me: (roughly)
>>>>
>>>> ??? 1) designing:? Digital,? Analog. Have done 100 pin
flatpacks.
>>>> ??? (self built), do 144 pin flatpacks when someone else
builds them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 2) I do double sided, plated through holes, silk
screen, but
>>>> ??? that's not me making them.? Have done toner transfer,
10 mil
>>>> ??? trace, 10 mil spacing, double sided, wire stitch top
and bottom
>>>> ??? layers, tin/lead plated boards.
>>>>
>>>> ??? 3) do you intend to produce these boards yourself?
(it makes a
>>>> ??? difference in how you design them).
>>>>
>>>> ??? 4) no bigger than 100 cm * 100 cm because of the
board house
>>>> ??? limitations for cheap?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 5) EAGLE 7.7, hobby (6 x 4 inch) license, can't sell
the boards.?
>>>>
>>>> ??? 6) by this time?? a fair amount, can always learn more
>>>>
>>>> ??? 7) logic analyzer breakouts for digital, pin headers
for some
>>>> ??? signals, some test pads, ground connectors, monitor leds
>>>>
>>>> ??? 8) used to make double sided boards, not plated
through, designs
>>>> ??? got too complicated for me to make
>>>>
>>>> ??? 9) lots
>>>>
>>>> ??? 10) not beginner in digital, some analog, power supply
>>>>
>>>> ??? Other people will have different opinions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On 7/12/2020 12:59 AM, davethetechman via groups.io
<> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Hi, does anyone have any personal videos of
designing with their
>>>>> ??? own personal tips and hacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Recently new to this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
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