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Well, "guessing" the instructions as to which screws, etc., the entire top assembly comes right off very easily, exposing what needs to be exposed and the top metal cover, ditto. As it turns out, (as the experts already knew/know), these tabs/switches are all mechanical. They were not meant to be disassembled (all rivetted together), and looking at how the entire tab assemblies have been manufactured, Hammond has considered the possibility that things might fail, and figure out ways for fixes to be done. The only thing I cannot "see" clearly is the slide contact which is sandwiched between the boards. I am very reluctant to split this assembly apart. It may be far more logical to use a cleaner first and find out what the results will be. Any thoughts from anyone? For the non-experts, here are photos of these tab/switch assemblies. and the suspected tab: ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Wayne Tarling <tarlingw@...> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 05:51:29 PM PST Subject: Fw: [hammondzone] X-77-Tonewheel Generator - BEARINGS - LUBRICATIONS - UPDATE-14FEB23 - switch problem? Well everything went reasonably well. TWG running very quiet. Manuals functioning ....pedals not. I opened up the console base panel, which had not been touched yet. I disconnected the 77 Leslie previously as it had too much power hum for the stage I was at. (Didn't need to be listening to it) a) with the pedals not "responding", I thought I would try the "Pedal Bus-Bar Shifter". It has a slot on the end of the shaft as if for a screwdriver, but I thought I would try turning with my fingers first. To my surprise, the shaft moved very easily CW about 90¡ã and not so much CCW ....so I left it re-positioned 90¡ã CW. I tried the pedals ....no change. I went back to the speaker selector, "Main Only" and "Echo Only", just moving the switches, and immediately had the pedals working with "Echo Only" depressed. (147) I was quite surprised with this as this selector had been down previously with no response. I went through all the pedals and drawbars and everything was working. b) I powered down to connect the 77 Leslie. Powering back up got the 8-10 seconds of power hum, which subsided more significantly this time and put the "Main Only" speaker selector down and had full pedals (77) ....but I couldn't tell if the 147 was still functioning. Pushing the "Echo Only" tab down and found the 147 was now NOT working with the pedals. (It had been 20 seconds ago) Keyboards were fine (both). I ended up flicking this (Echo Only) switch up and down, getting mainly electrical contact clicking with no connection for the pedals. (????) Unfortunately, looking at the back of the organ, the entire bank of these switches are buried behind a metal box running full length. There are also a few screws on the top of this metal box, which can only be accessed with the top of the console removed. With much "playing around", I am getting to the summary that the "Echo Only" tab/switch (147) is either not making a proper contact for some reason ...perhaps just a cleaning needed? The "Main Only" switch, when down, (77) the manuals and pedals function fine ...as they should. I also note, that the power hum from the 77 Leslie is far less now. Pretty much quite acceptable ....as compared to the 147 which has a very too noticeable hum. I see some notes on "HUM" on page 20 & 24 of the Hammond Manual. I'll check that out later. Does anyone have any knowledge of accessibility to the "Echo Only" switch? I cannot see in behind. I am looking at page 20 and 21 that reference "removing the top. There is a section about removing the top: Is this the correct instruction? I'll have to look around for each of these details, (where these screws are) assuming this is the correct instruction. Then of course, I am hoping this switch can be tested for "make" condition ....and then can the contacts be cleaned or fixed? .....or do I have this all wrong and there is something else causing this problem? So far the problems have been principley mechanical in na
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Well everything went reasonably well. TWG running very quiet. Manuals functioning ....pedals not. I opened up the console base panel, which had not been touched yet. I disconnected the 77 Leslie previously as it had too much power hum for the stage I was at. (Didn't need to be listening to it) a) with the pedals not "responding", I thought I would try the "Pedal Bus-Bar Shifter". It has a slot on the end of the shaft as if for a screwdriver, but I thought I would try turning with my fingers first. To my surprise, the shaft moved very easily CW about 90¡ã and not so much CCW ....so I left it re-positioned 90¡ã CW. I tried the pedals ....no change. I went back to the speaker selector, "Main Only" and "Echo Only", just moving the switches, and immediately had the pedals working with "Echo Only" depressed. (147) I was quite surprised with this as this selector had been down previously with no response. I went through all the pedals and drawbars and everything was working. b) I powered down to connect the 77 Leslie. Powering back up got the 8-10 seconds of power hum, which subsided more significantly this time and put the "Main Only" speaker selector down and had full pedals (77) ....but I couldn't tell if the 147 was still functioning. Pushing the "Echo Only" tab down and found the 147 was now NOT working with the pedals. (It had been 20 seconds ago) Keyboards were fine (both). I ended up flicking this (Echo Only) switch up and down, getting mainly electrical contact clicking with no connection for the pedals. (????) Unfortunately, looking at the back of the organ, the entire bank of these switches are buried behind a metal box running full length. There are also a few screws on the top of this metal box, which can only be accessed with the top of the console removed. With much "playing around", I am getting to the summary that the "Echo Only" tab/switch (147) is either not making a proper contact for some reason ...perhaps just a cleaning needed? The "Main Only" switch, when down, (77) the manuals and pedals function fine ...as they should. I also note, that the power hum from the 77 Leslie is far less now. Pretty much quite acceptable ....as compared to the 147 which has a very too noticeable hum. I see some notes on "HUM" on page 20 & 24 of the Hammond Manual. I'll check that out later. Does anyone have any knowledge of accessibility to the "Echo Only" switch? I cannot see in behind. I am looking at page 20 and 21 that reference "removing the top. There is a section about removing the top: Is this the correct instruction? I'll have to look around for each of these details, (where these screws are) assuming this is the correct instruction. Then of course, I am hoping this switch can be tested for "make" condition ....and then can the contacts be cleaned or fixed? .....or do I have this all wrong and there is something else causing this problem? So far the problems have been principley mechanical in nature.
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Tonewheel Generator - BEARINGS - LUBRICATIONS
21
Thanks for this Chris You pretty well nailed exactly what I had done. I did not want to mention this for fear anything said might influence anyone to not respond if they had a different way of tackling this problem. The organ is the X-77 with both the matching Leslie and a 147. Trying to isolate an area where the "noise" was coming from, was only guessing when sitting on the bench. When looking at the assembly from the back, with the top "plate" attached, it was pretty well impossible to see let alone try to figure out a way to identify the culprit bearing(s). The only "easy" way to access under this plate was to cut each of the wires on the "inner side" of the top plate (the side toward the keyboard). There was only the one lead on this side, on each "bank" going to either a cap or cap/coil assy ....so 24 in all. This allowed me to lift the one side of the plate to expose the entire tonewheel assembly. Then using an extension cord (to control power on/off from the back), very quick connection to power just to initiate some "spinning", I could not only immediately confirm the noise coming from the RHS (I'm now at the back looking forward), but immediately straight to the "area" ....as the spin slowed. I only needed/wanted a slow spin and then coast to a stop, rather than the whole tone wheel area screaming/squealing and noise coming from all over the place ...because the noise can simply transmit down the culprit shaft(s) as well. I could not tell "which" bearing(s) were making the noise. Because the bearing noise is likely due to a "dry" condition and also potentially now an over-size or obround shaft/bearing clearance condition, my preference was to use a heavier weight, more viscous oil rather than the Hammond oil. My understanding is the Hammond oil is designed to used for "wicking". Additives like waxes would eventually hinder the wicking ....but if applying directly to a bearing, this is not a concern. I used the most viscous lube I have which is a 30W Way Oil ...which is design to "stick" to/on "ways" found on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc). I used a syringe to apply directly on one bearing at a time ("design of experiments" principles). I started on the end bearing closest to me, and applied a little lube on both sides (ends) of the bearing and quickly applied power and immediately disconnected ..again, just to get the tonewheel assy turning to make the noise. This first bearing changed nothing. This is a "lay shaft", so the opposite end then needed the same treatment. Again, a quick/short power up, changed nothing. The "next" reachable shaft in this "first bank" was on the opposite side (toward the keys), again, a lay shaft. When repeating the procedure, I immediately identified a change to the noise from the outside bearing. It was significantly reduced. I then repeated on the bearing on the opposite end of this lay shaft and the noise all but disappeared. I had found the primary culprit bearings as being the lay shaft at the opposite end of the drive motor. However, not ALL the noise was gone. As it turned out, the next bearing, furthest away from oiling point, was on the drive shaft. An application of oil on this one bearing and ALL the noise was gone. I have since let the organ run for several hours and turned off to allow it to cool, and repeated this few times now. There has been one instance where a very faint noise has started, which prompted me to add some lube to all three bearings ...and herein lies the problem of potentially needed to continually need to add lubrication to these three bearings. If this is what needs to be done, then I will design some kind of system that will put lube directly on to these three bearings when needed. At one point I looked at the entire assy and recognized this is NOT a "friendly" assy to work with. As you pointed out, Hammond would have jigs and fixtures along with a very elaborate assy instruction. What I am wondering is if there is a lubrication product that is designed to "fill" voids or "over-size" conditions, that might offer some form of a more permanent "re
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HAMMOND - Manufacturing Video (& Leslie story)
3
Finally came across an historical promotional video covering Hammond manufacturing information. Everything "manual" ....no CNC. Far too many manufacturing details actioned to be able to "survive" today's manufacturing costs. Just imagine "testing every condenser". No present-day "company owner" of anything would ever allow this kind of cost practice. My experience is manufacturing. I know of no owner who embraced Quality. They looked upon Quality as an unnecessary evil ...to be avoided or cut altogether ....and then see what happens. (74) The Hammond Organ B3 C3 A 100 History Complete Factory Assembly Production - YouTube Anyone know if there is a "Hammond expert" in the Vancouver, B.C., Canada, area? I know there are organs around. They were sold by both "Eatons" (large store chain across Canada) and a private company locally, "Jerome's" ...going back to the 60's and 70's. I suppose there may now be Suzuki-Hammond ...perhaps represented by a music store(?). And then "what would anyone actually know about Hammond organs"? On a separate note, not to be "out-done" ....once a file is video file is opened in YouTube, associated video files pop-up ....and this video "History of the Leslie" appeared. I did not know this "history", so it was interesting and humorous to watch. Nothing about manufacturing ...just the story. (74) History of the Leslie speakers - YouTube
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A bit of a delay to collect together available materials that are needed by Turkey in aid of the catastrophic earthquakes and getting them to an emergency collection center. Heart-wrenching to see children being pulled from the rubble. Very difficult scene to digest ...with the death toll only climbing as the bodies are found. It begins to become a recovery rather than a rescue. Now back to the project, just a very quick update/summary - after my first email of 02FEB23, I have done a number of things specific to tone wheel generator lubrication. 1) exposed the tone wheel generator minimally (removed the acoustic blanket) and confirmed the bearing noise from the RHS (looking into the back) ....and directly lubricated four bearings in total, with a 30W Way Oil. This stopped ALL "extra" noise in this one area. 2) added "copious amounts" of "Tone Wheel Generator Oil" (TWGO). Exact amount much more than 20 or 30 "drops" in each funnel. 3) needed access to the bearings. Couldn't "see" or figure out how to get oil to each and every bearing with the TWG covered. Only way to do this was to disconnect 24 wires on the keyboard-side of the filter assembly laying on top of the TWG, and remove hold-down screws. Exposed the tone wheels by carefully lifting the one side of the filter deck and paying very close attention to all the connected wiring on the opposite side. Eventually got it all exposed. This now allowed a visual of the two oiling points, seeing the wicking material. Very difficult to determine whether this was a "dry" or "wet" condition in comparison with what it should be ....keeping in mind I had already poured an amount of oil a couple of days previously ....and I did not "see" the condition of the wicking material at that time. However, in consideration of Chris' comment using the term "evaporation" ...and considering the number of years the organ has sat idle, ..safe to say the initial condition of the wicking was "dry". This leaves the question of "how much" lube to add to bring the entire system up to a "proper level"(?) However, at this time I decided to add more oil to observe visually, how long it would take to not just fully "cover" the wick material, but also how long for the fresh oil to absorb/disappear into the wick material. 4) I spent a few days of adding oil directly onto the wick material, and running the TWG to listen/monitor for any return of "noise". I added "less" oil than the initial dousing. Each time to observe the wick material after a day of oil application. Each time, the wick material ended up looking the same, as if it was absorbing the oil "easily". 5) on 07FEB23, I decided to apply TWGO directly to each bearing. This was very straightforward. Just a matter of "seeing" that oil got to the shaft/bearing and got "wet". A little awkward on some bearings "under" adjacent shafts. Upon completion, I powered up the TWG and immediately noticed a diminished noise level overall. Standing back and listening to the assembly, it was significantly quieter. It would have been interesting to have measured the noise level before and after if I had a db meter. 6) The next step now was to return the filter assembly plate into place and reconnect the 24 wires. Again, a very delicate process paying close attention to all the wiring on the opposite side and finding the correct position for the retaining/hold-down screws. All went well. All wires were still aligned with each soldering point. No labelling was needed. Laid acoustic mat back over TWG. Moved the entire TWG assembly back into general position. Reconnected one plug ....everything back to original condition. 7) powered up to "observe" and "listen". TWG now very surprisingly quiet overall. Powered down, plugged in 147, powered back up. Once 147 warmed up, tried the manuals. Everything functioning nice. 147 sounding a little loud with "constant power hum" underneath. Powered down and plugged in the 77 Leslie. Upon powering back up, a very loud "power hum" came on for about 8 seconds and then decreased considerably ...but still far too loud. Something defini
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NEW PROBLEM - HIGH PITCH - X-77
5
I quickly realized I should have changed the title line as "Gail" piggybacked my lubrication problem with a completely different problem. SORRY! On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 08:03:04 AM PST, Wayne Tarling <tarlingw@...> wrote: I am not an audio electronics person. I think you should provide a lot more information for anyone to begin to assist. I assume you are referring to the purpose-built Leslie that the high pitch is coming from(?). This Leslie is solid state. What is this "high pitch" you refer to? How long has it had this problem? Does the volume of the high pitch follow the swell? Are you an electronics person? Do you have the "Hammond X77 and X77GT Manual"? Where are you? Have you looked for a Hammond tech? You say you have been "unable to eliminate". What have you done to this organ so far? I am curious to know what the problem is as many of the techs on this forum may be ...but information is very helpful to get the ball rolling. On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 06:50:21 PM PST, Gail Wrighter via groups.io <gwrighte@...> wrote: i have a high pitch coming out of my X 77 and an unable to eliminate. It seems to be coming out of the lower front speaker. Any suggestions for anyone. On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 06:40:45 PM EST, Wayne Tarling via groups.io <tarlingw@...> wrote: Thanks for this Chris You pretty well nailed exactly what I had done. I did not want to mention this for fear anything said might influence anyone to not respond if they had a different way of tackling this problem. The organ is the X-77 with both the matching Leslie and a 147. Trying to isolate an area where the "noise" was coming from, was only guessing when sitting on the bench. When looking at the assembly from the back, with the top "plate" attached, it was pretty well impossible to see let alone try to figure out a way to identify the culprit bearing(s). The only "easy" way to access under this plate was to cut each of the wires on the "inner side" of the top plate (the side toward the keyboard). There was only the one lead on this side, on each "bank" going to either a cap or cap/coil assy ....so 24 in all. This allowed me to lift the one side of the plate to expose the entire tonewheel assembly. Then using an extension cord (to control power on/off from the back), very quick connection to power just to initiate some "spinning", I could not only immediately confirm the noise coming from the RHS (I'm now at the back looking forward), but immediately straight to the "area" ....as the spin slowed. I only needed/wanted a slow spin and then coast to a stop, rather than the whole tone wheel area screaming/squealing and noise coming from all over the place ...because the noise can simply transmit down the culprit shaft(s) as well. I could not tell "which" bearing(s) were making the noise. Because the bearing noise is likely due to a "dry" condition and also potentially now an over-size or obround shaft/bearing clearance condition, my preference was to use a heavier weight, more viscous oil rather than the Hammond oil. My understanding is the Hammond oil is designed to used for "wicking". Additives like waxes would eventually hinder the wicking ....but if applying directly to a bearing, this is not a concern. I used the most viscous lube I have which is a 30W Way Oil ...which is design to "stick" to/on "ways" found on machine tools (lathes, mills, etc). I used a syringe to apply directly on one bearing at a time ("design of experiments" principles). I started on the end bearing closest to me, and applied a little lube on both sides (ends) of the bearing and quickly applied power and immediately disconnected ..again, just to get the tonewheel assy turning to make the noise. This first bearing changed nothing. This is a "lay shaft", so the opposite end then needed the same treatment. Again, a quick/short power up, changed nothing. The "next" reachable shaft in this "first bank" was on the opposite side (toward the keys), again, a lay shaft. When repeating the procedure, I immediately identified a change to the noise from the outside bearing.
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Tonewheel Generator - BEARINGS
2
Hello Community I haven't heard much about "bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about "failed bearings". Considering there are some 144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed" bearing? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se. I won't go into a lot of detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix. If more information is needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the problem is and what I have done ....so far. Regards to all. Wayne
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Hi hammond peeps, An acquaintance says his friend says he needs to tune his Hammond, and they wondered if they could do it using a tuning app of some sort. (we're very used to tuning harpsichords, using PitchLab, tuning forks, and years ago by getting up at 4 am when it was quiet and counting beats)(we prefer a=415, quarter comma meantone). I played B3 a lot for 13 years, intermittently after that, but it never occurred to me that a B3 could go out of tune, without having something be broken/needing adjustment. We had occasional problems that a Hammond tech needed to address, one time during a gig the whole organ's tone suddenly ran down (and I immediately turned off the B3!). Anyhow -- my impression has been that normally one does NOT mess with tuning on a Hammond. Appreciate any thoughts/info on this, thanks. Gesine
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Hello...haven't posted here for awhile I local keyboard store in Salem Oregon called me to come and get a 1954 C-2 and PR40 cabinet. For free! I love C-2's....especially the smooth drawbar ones. And I love PR40 tone cabinets. Anyway now there is the obvious issue of adding percussion. I happen to have some A 100 preamps...AO 28's I guess that I got at an estate sale earlier this year. I have thought about wiring them up to this C-2 and I know that I would also need the percussion swithches. Of course I could always buy a Trek percussion unit but I am kind of curious about the possibility of using one of these preamps. If anyone has thoughts about this or has done a percussion mod I would like to hear about it. I possibly would sell one of these preamps to get the Trek unit if anyone might want an AO 28. Also ... can anyone recommend any other Hammond chat groups? I used to be on Hamtech.... not sure if that is going anymore. Mark in Oregon
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Leslie 147 Relay
2
Sirs, A gentleman came to me needing to have a 147 amp repaired as it is making a huge pop when switching speeds. I will begin by replacing the two blocking caps wired to the motor outlets on the amp,along with a third cap wired across the octal plug and hopefully this will cure it. As I was checking the other components I noticed one set of points on the relay are very worn and pitted badly so I suggested this ahould also be replaced,which he agreed to. My go-to is always TWGH but I find no listing other than the solid state conversion. Are these original style relays all used up, and if so would I be wise to use the box type relay offered by Antique Electronics (Tubes and More)? I would rather not use the solid state unit having installed them on two seperate occasions a few years ago and both failed within a year,so I have little faith in them and prefer original style parts wherever possible. Thank you in advance, John
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Elkatone 610 rotary speakers
2
Hi I have five Elkatone 610 rotary speakers, mostly with speed control units, in various states of repair. Mostly working, most have issues (e.g. non rotating horn, or a speaker not working) but it should be possible to make at least two and possibly more fully working speakers from these. For those that don't know the Elkatone 610, its a 100W, solid state amplifier, with rotary horn and a bass speaker with rotary baffle / horn. It's very similar to a Leslie 760, but smaller (and made in Italy). I've tried the usual auction site and got some interest, but nothing too serious. I need to move these on as I'm moving house and it seems a real pity to just scrap them, so if there are any forum members that would like these, I'm happy to pass them on for free. I'm near High Wycombe, Bucks, in the UK. I do travel North from time to time, so delivery might be an option. Happy to provide any further information etc. - might be better to do this offline as I realise that this isn't strictly 'Hammond' Cheers Chris
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Leslie 130
2
Hi I have a Leslie 130 speaker that I need to move on, as I'm moving house. If there are any forum members that would like this, I'm happy to pass it on for free. I'm near High Wycombe, Bucks, in the UK. I do travel North from time to time, so delivery might be an option. Happy to provide any further information etc. Cheers Chris
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The switch on the other side got me interested but the 6 pin on this side, huh???? any ideas? thanks -- Rich Reid 208-861-9263
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This one has me stumped. A few years ago I bought a C3 with a PR 40 from a church. This transformer was mounted under the generator platform. There is also a light but that is separate. This was mounted way toward the back so it was not easy to reach the switch. At first I thought it a transformer and dimmer for the light. Once I got it out to where I could see it, it obviously is not that, and no dimmer. The tag on the switch says hi/lo. I don't know what the other end of the wires was connected to. It was either disconnected already or I just unsoldered it without noticing. Any ideas? thanks separate email with second picture -- Rich Reid 208-861-9263
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I have a question I hope someone can answer. Is the vibrato scanner in an A-100 and B2, C2, interchangeable? I have a customer with an A-100 and I want to clean/rebuild a scanner to take with me and just install it on site. I have a C2 that would be the donor. I also have an A-143 which I assume would be the same as in the A-100. Anyone know about these? Are there different parts or are they the same? thank you. Rich Reid 208-861-9263
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Dear all, Just came across a classified ad for a Hammond 7122L model Can anyome helo me and inform if this is a tonewheel model or a transistor one ? Thanks a lot ! Vasco
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Hi! Hope you can help me with a problem that has developed in my Leslie 145. When it warms up after 5 minutes say, the Leslie starts popping and cracking this happens consistently with or without any music being played or regardless the position of either the MEE or speed switches. If I play, then the pop will often lead to a huge feedback type sound. Looking in the back at the amp, the OC3 valve flashes on and off in tandem with each pop, when it is not popping the colour stays static. I have bought a NOS tube to see if that would alleviate but unfortunately the same fault exists. Please help! Keith
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Have a hammond skx and I am constantly worrying that I will either lose the external 12vdc power supply, or else bump and damage the somewhat flimsy socket and be up a creek without a paddle. I am planning on installing a hgh quality12vdc power supply internally, fed from an IEC socket added to the rear panel of the organ. Fuses will be used as close as physically possible to the mains input as well as to the output from the DC board, obviously. Any considerations when doing this that I'm not thinking of? Particularly with grounding the chassis through the earth connection on the IEC, given the instrument was designed for a floating 2-wire DC supply?
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Hello list members, I will be connecting an A100 to a 145 type Leslie. I think the Leslie is actually a 245. Can you tell me what kind of kits are available? I figure I could use one of the G terminals and ground for signal and ac power and switch but perhaps a full kit might be what this lady wants. I would like to know the options. thanks -- Rich Reid 208-861-9263
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LESLIE echo control type 3M (2) 20 LESLIE TYPE 3M LESLIE CONTROL BOX FOR USE IN ECHO CONTROL WHEN HOOKING A 122 TYPE LESLIE TO A HAMMOND SPINET. SEE HAMMOND WIKI. IN GOOD CONDITION. LESLIE tremolo Control Terminal box 428-13 120 Leslie 428-13 Tremolo Control Terminal Box Use with 122 or 428 Tremolo Control Kit LESLIE combo preamp III Model 137786 300 This is a Leslie Preamp Combo III and will allow you to play your piano or electric guitar or organ through a 11 pin Leslie. The unit has been tested and all functions work properly. In addition, I currently use it to run a guitar or piano through a Leslie 860. If you play guitar or organ you are fully aware of this units capabilities. LESLIE 037655 Speaker& console connector, tremolo & ¨¦cho switch 30 LESLIE Leslie 9 Pin Cable 30' Brown (2) 150 LESLIE r¨¦verb control kit 100 LESLIE 147 Power amplifier absolument NEUF !!!! 500
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