Re: How to save CMS system?
You're missing a crucial detail for an absolutely safe RENAME
- CP LINK sharedDisk xxxx 111 M
- ACCESS 111 N
- COPYFILE ABC EXEC A ABC NEWEXEC N (OLDDATE
- RENAME ABC EXEC N = OLDEXEC N (NOUPDIRT
- RENAME ABC NEWEXEC N = EXEC =
- RELEASE N (DETACH
The trick is NOUPD in step 4.? It makes that this RENAME is done in your storage only.? Any user just accessing this shared MDISK at this time will still see the old ABC EXEC.
The RENAME in step 5 causes the mdisk to be updated, both step 4 and 5 are then executed as an atomic event (and that was mentioned in the original message, without the NOUPD there's no such trick)
?
Beware: don't do any other update to disk N between step 4 and 5 or there is a while with only ABC OLDEXEC present on the mdisk.
And, do not ERASE ABC OLDEXEC before you are sure that all users of this shared disk have reACCESSed it.? ?Users that do not reACCESS have for ABC EXEC pointers in storage that point to what now is ABC OLDEXEC on disk.? If you erase if too soon, their pointers point to a place on the mdisk that can be overwritten at any moment
?
--
Kris Buelens
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Re: How to save CMS system?
While is in some ways a silly analogy it might help to think of CP (Control Program in VM/CMS environments) as BIOS (in traditional PCs) - hit the wrong key during a reboot and, ...the results are unpredictable.?
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Re: How to save CMS system?
Thanks, it worked perfectly.
I honestly never imagined that one <enter> too many could cause such a problem.
?
Thanks again, I'm going to stop playing with teddy bears and go back to turkeys.
?
Marco
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Re: How to save CMS system?
On 26/02/2025 21:18, M Verpelli via
groups.io wrote:
Yes I press enter. Is this the mistake I made?
?
I think so. Thats why it pauses after IPL so you can save the CMS
segment
Marco
_._
Dave
,_
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Re: How to save CMS system?
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 8:35?AM M Verpelli via <marco.verpelli= [email protected]> wrote:
Here I am again to ask one last thing (I hope).
From what I understand, when you want to move a program to minidisk
MNT19E 19E Y/S to make it available to all other users, you have to (re)save the CMS system.
Yes.? That's specifically because CMS keeps a copy of the file directory of the S and Y disks in the saved system, so if you don't do this, the CMS users won't see the change.? CMS refers to these directory copies as the "shared S-stat" and "shared Y-stat" accordingly. ? So:
1) acc 19E z, to make it available for writing
2) copyfile my program a = = z
As Dave has already?mentioned, any file you put on the S or Y disks needs to be mode 2 (e.g., TYPE MODULE S2).? That's because when CMS creates the shared S and Y stats, it only puts the mode-2 files in them.
3) read the MAINT MEMO B and?
You don't need to do VMSETUP, and in fact the next command shuts CMS down and undoes it :-)\
CP should respond:
STORAGE = 16384K
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00000000' ?
At which point CMS puts out the "greeting message":
VM Community Edition V1 R1.2
You need to type that exactly as seen - no #CP, no other words or punctuation (but upper/lower case doesn't matter), and no pressing ENTER beforehand.? CMS checks the line entered in response to the greeting message for several special cases, including the SAVESYS response.
?Note that if you accidentally issue the CP SAVESYS command instead of responding SAVESYS to the greeting, it's anybody's guess what will happen.? When you do it correctly, CMS prepares itself for saving and then issues the actual CP SAVESYS command itself, via Diagnose 8.
That's not necessary.? After your SAVESYS, any user (including MAINT) that does IPL CMS will get the newly-saved system.
5) with any user after logon I get:
DMSFRE161T INVALID DMSFRET CALL FROM F87AE8, ERROR NUMBER 5.
DMSFRE164T LOW-CORE NUCLEUS STORAGE POINTERS DESTROYED (INTERNAL ERROR CODE 5) RE-IPL CMS.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DMSFRE165T CHAIN HEADER AT 0036F0: 0001EC20 0000000B 000011B8 10F00200.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00F812B6'
My best guess is that CP got the SAVESYS, not CMS, and that it was processed at an inopportune moment.? The proper sequence looks like this (just captured from my on VM/CE 1.1.2 system):
DASD 19D LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS DASD 19E LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS DASD 290 LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS DASD 190 LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS DASD 194 LINKED R/W; R/O BY CPWATCH LOGON AT 17:54:10 EDT WEDNESDAY 02/26/25 VM Community Edition V1 R1.2
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00000000' VM Community Edition V1 R1.2 VM Community Edition V1 R1.2
Segment GCCLIB is not loaded because virtual machine memory is in use.
Note that "SYSTEM SAVED" message - CMS issues that when it saves the system.? If you don't get that, it didn't happen correctly. Ross
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Re: How to save CMS system?
The SAVESYS command *MUST* be *ONLY* entered at the 1st VM READ after the IPL command. If you wait until after the 1st ready message, then it won't work.
?
The problem is that DMSINS has some additional initialization to do after IPLing the saved system and if you enter the SAVESYS command after the ready message, that reinit work doesn't get done. One of the really important things that happen in DMSINS after ipling a saved system is to initialize all memory controls based on the memory size of the VM doing the IPL.
?
cheers,
William
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Re: How to save CMS system?
From what I understand, when you want to move a program to minidisk > MNT19E 19E Y/S to make it available to all other users, you have to > (re)save the CMS system. A useful way to avoid having to resave CMS all the time is to have an additional program disk to hold locally installed stuff that's not part of the base CMS installation. We used a minidisk that was owned by MAINT, and ensured that it was accessed by all users as 'P'. An additional handy thing to know is that RENAME is atomic, so you can add files to the P disk, or _update_ them there, with impunity, if you do it right: - Link the P disk M as some additional mode other than P. - COPY the new or updated file there with a temp name. - RENAME the old file (if any) to e.g. a versioned oldname. - RENAME the new or updated file to the intended name. - RELEASE the disk. - Have all logged in users reACCESS P. Until they reaccess, they will get the old version of an updated file. If you use MR mode for the link, you may get an R link if someone else has an M (or W, naughty) link, which is why I suggest M mode. (We had a script for this, so it was desirable to avoid the issue rather than to try to detect it and clean it up.) De
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Re: How to save CMS system?
Yes I press enter. Is this the mistake I made?
?
Marco
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Re: How to save CMS system?
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 01:35 PM, M Verpelli wrote:
Here I am again to ask one last thing (I hope).
From what I understand, when you want to move a program to minidisk
MNT19E 19E Y/S to make it available to all other users, you have to (re)save the CMS system.
So:
1) acc 19E z, to make it available for writing
2) copyfile my program a = = z
3) read the MAINT MEMO B and
3.1) vmsetup cms
3.2) cp define stor 16m
3.3) ipl 190 clear
?
?
You didn't press enter at this point did you??
On checking it needs to be straight after the IPL
3.4) savesys cms
4) shutdown and reipl
5) with any user after logon I get:
DMSFRE161T INVALID DMSFRET CALL FROM F87AE8, ERROR NUMBER 5.
DMSFRE164T LOW-CORE NUCLEUS STORAGE POINTERS DESTROYED (INTERNAL ERROR CODE 5) RE-IPL CMS.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DMSFRE165T CHAIN HEADER AT 0036F0: 0001EC20 0000000B 000011B8 10F00200.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00F812B6'
?
quite nasty and unfriendly...
?
I also tried the same things with a copy of VM/370 CE v1r1.2 just downloaded and therefore not "screwed" by me previously.
The result was the same.
?
Any advice is welcome, thanks!
?
Marco
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Re: How to save CMS system?
typing error
?
2) copyfile myprogram a == z2
?
sorry
?
Marco
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Re: How to save CMS system?
Ok, I tryed
...
2) copyfile my program a = = z
...
3.4) access (noprof
3.5) savesys cms
....
Now I get:
DMSFRE161T INVALID DMSFRET CALL FROM F87AE8, ERROR NUMBER 5.
DMSFRE164T LOW-CORE NUCLEUS STORAGE POINTERS DESTROYED (INTERNAL ERROR CODE 5) RE-IPL CMS.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DMSFRE165T CHAIN HEADER AT 0036F0: 0001EC20 0000000B 000012A0 10F00200.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00F812B6'
?
Marco
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Re: How to save CMS system?
Well it needs to mode 2 so the copy has to be = = z2...
.. I then think you need "access (noprof" after the IPL and before the savesyd but on my phone so can't check manuals
Dave
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025, 13:35 M Verpelli via , <marco.verpelli= [email protected]> wrote:
Here I am again to ask one last thing (I hope).
From what I understand, when you want to move a program to minidisk
MNT19E 19E Y/S to make it available to all other users, you have to (re)save the CMS system.
So:
1) acc 19E z, to make it available for writing
2) copyfile my program a = = z
3) read the MAINT MEMO B and
3.1) vmsetup cms
3.2) cp define stor 16m
3.3) ipl 190 clear
3.4) savesys cms
4) shutdown and reipl
5) with any user after logon I get:
DMSFRE161T INVALID DMSFRET CALL FROM F87AE8, ERROR NUMBER 5.
DMSFRE164T LOW-CORE NUCLEUS STORAGE POINTERS DESTROYED (INTERNAL ERROR CODE 5) RE-IPL CMS.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DMSFRE165T CHAIN HEADER AT 0036F0: 0001EC20 0000000B 000011B8 10F00200.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00F812B6'
?
quite nasty and unfriendly...
?
I also tried the same things with a copy of VM/370 CE v1r1.2 just downloaded and therefore not "screwed" by me previously.
The result was the same.
?
Any advice is welcome, thanks!
?
Marco
|
Here I am again to ask one last thing (I hope).
From what I understand, when you want to move a program to minidisk
MNT19E 19E Y/S to make it available to all other users, you have to (re)save the CMS system.
So:
1) acc 19E z, to make it available for writing
2) copyfile my program a = = z
3) read the MAINT MEMO B and
3.1) vmsetup cms
3.2) cp define stor 16m
3.3) ipl 190 clear
3.4) savesys cms
4) shutdown and reipl
5) with any user after logon I get:
DMSFRE161T INVALID DMSFRET CALL FROM F87AE8, ERROR NUMBER 5.
DMSFRE164T LOW-CORE NUCLEUS STORAGE POINTERS DESTROYED (INTERNAL ERROR CODE 5) RE-IPL CMS.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
DMSFRE165T CHAIN HEADER AT 0036F0: 0001EC20 0000000B 000011B8 10F00200.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 00F812B6'
?
quite nasty and unfriendly...
?
I also tried the same things with a copy of VM/370 CE v1r1.2 just downloaded and therefore not "screwed" by me previously.
The result was the same.
?
Any advice is welcome, thanks!
?
Marco
|
rexxtry
REXX interpreter running (CMS bREXX 1.0.1 Jul ?5 2022)
Enter any valid REXX instruction... type EXIT to quit.
Rexxtry;
''
DMSITP143T PROTECTION EXCEPTION OCCURRED AT F20A02 IN SYSTEM ROUTINE EXEC, RE-IPL CMS.
CP ENTERED; DISABLED WAIT PSW '00020000 40F8B75E'
?
--
VM/370 CE V1R1.2, Hercules on macOS
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Re: VM/370 Rel 6 & Waterloo Mods Question
On 22/02/2025 16:51, Mark A. Stevens
via groups.io wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 03:12 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
Try "FSHELP RESLIB"?
Its how BREXX is loaded.
It all depends on where one starts. I was looking at the
Waterloo tapes for something else, saw RESLIB and remembered
seeing it on CE, then the question asked here, and then reading
the online HELP.? <grin>
?
I know Bob Bolch wrote NUCXMAP for us. Is RESLIB close enough
to NUCXLOAD to be it's replacement?
Bob wrote NUCXTEXT ? as a replacement for NUCXLOAD. You can't have a
NUCXLOAD because there are no relocatable modules..
..I am not sure what the differences are between NUCXTEXT, NUCXLOAD
and RESLIB...
?
Do we need code for the NUCXLOAD options: SYstem, SErvice,?
ENdcmd, IMmcmd, and/or Push?
?
NUCXTEXT has system but not the others
And ... I've forgotten what it was I was originally looking
for. <sigh>
?
I know that feeling
?... Mark S.
_._,_._,_
Dave
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Re: VM/370 Rel 6 & Waterloo Mods Question
On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 03:12 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
Try "FSHELP RESLIB"?
Its how BREXX is loaded.
It all depends on where one starts. I was looking at the Waterloo tapes for something else, saw RESLIB and remembered seeing it on CE, then the question asked here, and then reading the online HELP.? <grin>
?
I know Bob Bolch wrote NUCXMAP for us. Is RESLIB close enough to NUCXLOAD to be it's replacement?
?
Do we need code for the NUCXLOAD options: SYstem, SErvice,? ENdcmd, IMmcmd, and/or Push?
?
And ... I've forgotten what it was I was originally looking for. <sigh>
?
?... Mark S.
|
Re: VM/370 Rel 6 & Waterloo Mods Question
Try "FSHELP RESLIB"?
Its how BREXX is loaded.
Dave
On 22/02/2025 03:23, Mark A. Stevens
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Was the following mod installed into VM/370 CE?
?
M0071V00RESLIB--
CMS Nucleus Resident Library. ?RESLIB is a CMS transient
area
program
that allows a user to define commands which will be treated
as nucleus
resident by
CMS. ?These commands may be new or replacements ?for CMS
supplied
user and
transient area commands. ?RESLIB also allows ?the allocation
of storage
resident
work areas which are not released ?between executions of
commands. ?The
location of
work areas and commands ?can be determined by calling RESLIB
with an
associated
area identifier. ?Common problems eliminated by RESLIB are:
?1) CMS
transient
area ?contention, 2) lack of concurrent execution
capability, and 3)
lack ?of
permanent global communication areas. ?RESLIB is compatible
with all
releases of
CMS.--Andy Hanushevsky, Cornell University, Ithaca, New
York, March
6, 1980.
NUMBER
OF BLOCKS REQUIRED: 0000044
?
?...
Mark S.
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Re: VM/370 Rel 6 & Waterloo Mods Question
On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 22:23 Mark A. Stevens via <marXtevens= [email protected]> wrote: Was the following mod installed into VM/370 CE?
?
Yes.? The SYSBPROF EXEC on the S-disk uses it to load the C library into memory if it can't be loaded as a shared segment.
--Andy Hanushevsky, Cornell University
Hanushevsky and the rest of the Cornell VMers shared a lot of useful code in the 70s and 80s.
Ross
|
VM/370 Rel 6 & Waterloo Mods Question
Was the following mod installed into VM/370 CE?
?
M0071V00RESLIB-- CMS Nucleus Resident Library. ?RESLIB is a CMS transient area
program that allows a user to define commands which will be treated as nucleus
resident by CMS. ?These commands may be new or replacements ?for CMS supplied
user and transient area commands. ?RESLIB also allows ?the allocation of storage
resident work areas which are not released ?between executions of commands. ?The
location of work areas and commands ?can be determined by calling RESLIB with an
associated area identifier. ?Common problems eliminated by RESLIB are: ?1) CMS
transient area ?contention, 2) lack of concurrent execution capability, and 3)
lack ?of permanent global communication areas. ?RESLIB is compatible with all
releases of CMS.--Andy Hanushevsky, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, March
6, 1980.
NUMBER OF BLOCKS REQUIRED: 0000044
?
?... Mark S.
|
On 19/02/2025 02:17, Mark A. Stevens
via groups.io wrote:
On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 02:44 AM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
Hello,
?
How do the above Hercules commands compare to the EXIT
command after doing a CP SHUTDOWN?
?
Thank you,
?
Bertram Moshier
?
From
?
stopall Stop all CPU's
sysclear *System Clear Reset manual operation
quit *Terminate the emulato
exit (Synonym for 'quit')
(*) Enter "help <command>" for more info.
The above commands are found in the scripts for MVS TK4- and its
updates, as well as TK5 and its updates.
"If it's good enough for MVS, it's good enough for VM."
<tm> :-)
No need on VM. "CP Shutdown" is fine.
MVS --> Man Versus System
?
?... Mark S.
?
_._,
Dave
|
M Verpelli
Stefan A. Haubenthal
Mark A. Stevens