I have had an FT817 for probably 10 years.
Great little radio.? Reasonably reparable with the right microscope and tools.? ?I've done component level repairs.
Sure if specific parts fail then the radio will be toast.? If finals, or fuses fail, easy.??
I've been repairing rigs since my first ft747 probably 30 years ago, keeping in mind that rig was originally sold in the 70s.? ?
That's 50 years ago
If you amortise the price of these things over time, the 747 only cost $20 per year.? Awesome.? ? And the 817 is only $50 per year.
These radios don't owe me a cent?
I also have modern SDR rigs.? When they fail, they will become junk really fast.
Don't sweat the little things.
Enjoy the hobby.? Remember it's cash negative... and that's ok.
Doug. VK1ZDJ
On Sat, 10 Aug 2024, 2:33?am Mike Bryce, < prosolar@...> wrote: Dave
?
I always growl and grind my teeth when I see someone parting out a perfectly good fully operational radio on eBay. Damn does that make my blood boil
?
BUT!!
?
I've also turned around and ordered an assembly or two that is no longer made by the manufacturer to get an old radio back on the air. I've done that many times with the Drake TR7 rigs.
?
I hate to see 'em disassembled and sold off as parts, but....
?
Mike, wb8vge
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Sacrifice one radio so several will stay on the air, it's a reasonable proposition in my opinion...
Ken, N2VIP
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On Aug 9, 2024, at 11:32, Mike Bryce <prosolar@...> wrote:
I hate to see 'em disassembled and sold off as parts, but....
Mike, wb8vge
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
Ken, N2VIP wrote… I'd love to get either a LiPO battery pack that fits in the chassis OR a nice AC power supply, but so far no luck... I would go with LiFePO4. It is slightly lower energy density than LiPo but a lot safer and it can tolerate deep discharge a lot better. You might get several thousand charge-discharge cycles out of them, especially if you don’t take them right down to zero. As well, they actually hold the voltage very steady rate until the very end. An AC Power supply is always good to have. A switching supply will be a lot lighter, but watch out for RFI. Another option would be one of the larger USB-C PD battery power banks with power delivery. I don’t have one but INIU seems to have a good reputation. -- 73 Keith VE7GDH
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
I bought my FT-897 with 2x dead batteries, I've never gotten either to hold a charge. When googling replacements, I was surprised to see availability on Amazon, but never bought a pair. Like many other FT-897 owners (I assume) I'd love to get either a LiPO battery pack that fits in the chassis OR a nice AC power supply, but so far no luck...
(And it's sorta on-topic, since there is so much similarity among the FT-8x7 family of radios... ;^)
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On Aug 9, 2024, at 11:29, Mike Bryce <prosolar@...> wrote:
? Ken
?
a bit off topic... what kind of run time do you get with the NiMH batteries in your 897? I've gone though about a half dozen battery packs over the years and I've never been happy with the run time.
?
?But ?like you said, they fit so nicely in the case
?
Mik wb8vge
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Dave
?
I always growl and grind my teeth when I see someone parting out a perfectly good fully operational radio on eBay. Damn does that make my blood boil
?
BUT!!
?
I've also turned around and ordered an assembly or two that is no longer made by the manufacturer to get an old radio back on the air. I've done that many times with the Drake TR7 rigs.
?
I hate to see 'em disassembled and sold off as parts, but....
?
Mike, wb8vge
|
Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
Ken
?
a bit off topic... what kind of run time do you get with the NiMH batteries in your 897? I've gone though about a half dozen battery packs over the years and I've never been happy with the run time.
?
?But ?like you said, they fit so nicely in the case
?
Mik wb8vge
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Re: Ft-817 bad finals update
Could someone identify the final transistors for the 817 / 817ND?
?
It would make sense to buy a couple if they are still available.
?
--
Mike G8GYW
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
Radios are certified for spurious emissions, Part 15, as I recall, there is not, to the best of my knowledge Part 97 certification (CBs have Part 95 certification, land mobile radios have Part 90 certification, referring to the regulations that regulate the service).
Certification is the responsibility of the MFG, and it needs to be performed at a certification lab (like UL labs).?
I'm sure you've seen ads for ham radios that say "this radio has not been approved for sale yet" when the ads pre-date the radio's delivery.
A change to the charging circuit *could* have required a change to main board (if that's where the charge circuit is located, and I was speculating that it was, and such a change could trigger a need for recertification of the unit).
Lots of people install 3rd party battery solutions in the FT-817/818 that bypass the radio's charging facility. (Windcamp, for example)
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On Aug 8, 2024, at 16:25, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
?I don't think any research into battery type, size, etc. would have changed my mind about the purchase. As far as redesign I can't see why the radio would have required recertification unless some transmit related circuitry had to be changed, but I don't know how that process works. Does FCC actually evaluate ham equipment for compliance, or is it simply a matter of honestly meeting the required specs?? ? There's also the possibility that some existing size of newer battery chemistry might already exist to fit the original battery compartment. They come in a very wide selection of sizes and shapes such as for consumer electronics. I dunno. It's obviously water under the bridge at this point, and I'm under the impression that most 817/818s run on external power with considerable more capacity than AAs anyway.?
Joe N1KHB?
On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 4:16 PM, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: I wonder if changing battery technologies would have required re-designing a board that would require re-certifying the radio as if it were a brand new product? Yaesu was selling FT-817, FT-817nd, and FT-818s about as fast as they could make them... if sales dropped, they might have considered changing some elements of the design, who knows?
It was obvious at the time, to me anyway, that the FT-818 was designed to allow customers to buy new FT-817 type radio and be nearly 100% compatible with the entire ecosystem of OEM and 3rd-party accessories. Some seemed to feel that Yaesu was trying to offer the FT-818 as a new, improved design that current 817/817nd owners would want to upgrade to - I still remember the posts here complaining with statements like "I already have a TXCO, thank you very much! Epic fail Yaesu!" And my favorite "I didn't want 6 watts output, think of the shortened battery life from all that 'extra' RF!"
(I have an FT-897 that I can still buy brand-new battery packs for - and I already have the bizzare charger contraption, it came with two dead batteries when I got the radio - but I struggle with spending $120 for about 8 amps of NiMH power when a 12-15 amp LiPO battery is the same money but infinitely more useful to me... but, the NiMH batteries fit so nicely in the case...)
Be careful talking about the charging process of the 817/818 - some might label you a cry baby and blast you for not researching the radio fully before purchase! Ha-Ha, just kidding. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 8, 2024, at 13:29, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
?If Yaesu was a little smarter they would have made a compartment for lithium ion or similar for the 818 or even mid cycle of the ND version. The obsession with AAs was a mistake. When the 817 first came out it made a certain amount of sense but that era came and went quite a while ago. ? ?They also could have done much better with battery charging than the funky time method. Voltage sensing for charge state would have been far superior which would have ended charge at the appropriate level. I'm guessing that the design assignment of that section of the radio was handed over to a flunky fresh out of college. They got what they paid for on that one. ? ?JMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.
Joe N1KHB? On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 12:51 PM, John <ve3ips@...> wrote: There are good techs that can fix or use it as a receiver
I was told by an extra that real hams blow finals at least once
Those that listen and never transmit will never be members
One ham I know has 3 817s and never transmitted them and he uses the built in battery.....which is a joke as it last 15 mins transmitting?
BFC stickers upon request hihi John VE3IPS?
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
|
Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
I don't think any research into battery type, size, etc. would have changed my mind about the purchase. As far as redesign I can't see why the radio would have required recertification unless some transmit related circuitry had to be changed, but I don't know how that process works. Does FCC actually evaluate ham equipment for compliance, or is it simply a matter of honestly meeting the required specs?? ? There's also the possibility that some existing size of newer battery chemistry might already exist to fit the original battery compartment. They come in a very wide selection of sizes and shapes such as for consumer electronics. I dunno. It's obviously water under the bridge at this point, and I'm under the impression that most 817/818s run on external power with considerable more capacity than AAs anyway.?
Joe N1KHB?
On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 4:16 PM, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: I wonder if changing battery technologies would have required re-designing a board that would require re-certifying the radio as if it were a brand new product? Yaesu was selling FT-817, FT-817nd, and FT-818s about as fast as they could make them... if sales dropped, they might have considered changing some elements of the design, who knows?
It was obvious at the time, to me anyway, that the FT-818 was designed to allow customers to buy new FT-817 type radio and be nearly 100% compatible with the entire ecosystem of OEM and 3rd-party accessories. Some seemed to feel that Yaesu was trying to offer the FT-818 as a new, improved design that current 817/817nd owners would want to upgrade to - I still remember the posts here complaining with statements like "I already have a TXCO, thank you very much! Epic fail Yaesu!" And my favorite "I didn't want 6 watts output, think of the shortened battery life from all that 'extra' RF!"
(I have an FT-897 that I can still buy brand-new battery packs for - and I already have the bizzare charger contraption, it came with two dead batteries when I got the radio - but I struggle with spending $120 for about 8 amps of NiMH power when a 12-15 amp LiPO battery is the same money but infinitely more useful to me... but, the NiMH batteries fit so nicely in the case...)
Be careful talking about the charging process of the 817/818 - some might label you a cry baby and blast you for not researching the radio fully before purchase! Ha-Ha, just kidding. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 8, 2024, at 13:29, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
?If Yaesu was a little smarter they would have made a compartment for lithium ion or similar for the 818 or even mid cycle of the ND version. The obsession with AAs was a mistake. When the 817 first came out it made a certain amount of sense but that era came and went quite a while ago. ? ?They also could have done much better with battery charging than the funky time method. Voltage sensing for charge state would have been far superior which would have ended charge at the appropriate level. I'm guessing that the design assignment of that section of the radio was handed over to a flunky fresh out of college. They got what they paid for on that one. ? ?JMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.
Joe N1KHB? On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 12:51 PM, John <ve3ips@...> wrote: There are good techs that can fix or use it as a receiver
I was told by an extra that real hams blow finals at least once
Those that listen and never transmit will never be members
One ham I know has 3 817s and never transmitted them and he uses the built in battery.....which is a joke as it last 15 mins transmitting?
BFC stickers upon request hihi John VE3IPS?
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
|
Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
I wonder if changing battery technologies would have required re-designing a board that would require re-certifying the radio as if it were a brand new product? Yaesu was selling FT-817, FT-817nd, and FT-818s about as fast as they could make them... if sales dropped, they might have considered changing some elements of the design, who knows?
It was obvious at the time, to me anyway, that the FT-818 was designed to allow customers to buy new FT-817 type radio and be nearly 100% compatible with the entire ecosystem of OEM and 3rd-party accessories. Some seemed to feel that Yaesu was trying to offer the FT-818 as a new, improved design that current 817/817nd owners would want to upgrade to - I still remember the posts here complaining with statements like "I already have a TXCO, thank you very much! Epic fail Yaesu!" And my favorite "I didn't want 6 watts output, think of the shortened battery life from all that 'extra' RF!"
(I have an FT-897 that I can still buy brand-new battery packs for - and I already have the bizzare charger contraption, it came with two dead batteries when I got the radio - but I struggle with spending $120 for about 8 amps of NiMH power when a 12-15 amp LiPO battery is the same money but infinitely more useful to me... but, the NiMH batteries fit so nicely in the case...)
Be careful talking about the charging process of the 817/818 - some might label you a cry baby and blast you for not researching the radio fully before purchase! Ha-Ha, just kidding.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 8, 2024, at 13:29, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
?If Yaesu was a little smarter they would have made a compartment for lithium ion or similar for the 818 or even mid cycle of the ND version. The obsession with AAs was a mistake. When the 817 first came out it made a certain amount of sense but that era came and went quite a while ago. ? ?They also could have done much better with battery charging than the funky time method. Voltage sensing for charge state would have been far superior which would have ended charge at the appropriate level. I'm guessing that the design assignment of that section of the radio was handed over to a flunky fresh out of college. They got what they paid for on that one. ? ?JMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.
Joe N1KHB? On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 12:51 PM, John <ve3ips@...> wrote: There are good techs that can fix or use it as a receiver
I was told by an extra that real hams blow finals at least once
Those that listen and never transmit will never be members
One ham I know has 3 817s and never transmitted them and he uses the built in battery.....which is a joke as it last 15 mins transmitting?
BFC stickers upon request hihi John VE3IPS?
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
|
Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
Greg,
The finals in the FT-818 are new designs, using different transistors than the original ones use in FT-817/817nd radios.
The 818 boards are backwards compatible with the 817/817nd radios.
At issue is availability of 818 boards, either for self-repair or Yaesu repair work.
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On Aug 7, 2024, at 22:23, Greg, K3RW <gregory.c.winters@...> wrote:
? Just so I am clear on this topic, if is this the correct understanding?
?
1) The original FT-817 finals are no longer available, at all, so you have to use the 'newer' finals
2) The FT-817ND finals and FT-818 finals are the same, and will fit the FT-817 (non-ND) models
3) But at the moment, the FT-817ND/818 finals are backordered?
?
Thanks,
Greg, K3RW/KH8
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
If Yaesu was a little smarter they would have made a compartment for lithium ion or similar for the 818 or even mid cycle of the ND version. The obsession with AAs was a mistake. When the 817 first came out it made a certain amount of sense but that era came and went quite a while ago. ? ?They also could have done much better with battery charging than the funky time method. Voltage sensing for charge state would have been far superior which would have ended charge at the appropriate level. I'm guessing that the design assignment of that section of the radio was handed over to a flunky fresh out of college. They got what they paid for on that one. ? ?JMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.
On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 12:51 PM, John <ve3ips@...> wrote: There are good techs that can fix or use it as a receiver
I was told by an extra that real hams blow finals at least once
Those that listen and never transmit will never be members
One ham I know has 3 817s and never transmitted them and he uses the built in battery.....which is a joke as it last 15 mins transmitting?
BFC stickers upon request hihi John VE3IPS?
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
|
Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
There are good techs that can fix or use it as a receiver
I was told by an extra that real hams blow finals at least once
Those that listen and never transmit will never be members
One ham I know has 3 817s and never transmitted them and he uses the built in battery.....which is a joke as it last 15 mins transmitting?
BFC stickers upon request hihi John VE3IPS?
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
|
I restore old Kenwood radios and have no problem sourcing parts.? As a popular radio goes out of production, and parts are no longer available from the OEM, "parting out" radios becomes the norm.? As the demand for used parts increases, I think you will find plenty on eBay and other channels for a long time to come.? The ft-817's out there will live on.
?
Dave kx3dx
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Re: Ft-817 bad finals update
No microscope needed. A regular magnifying lamp is fine. What we did on rework since 1970s (yes SMD existed then, but on Alumina subtrates) was cut the leads on any leaded device and use desoldering braid and iron to clean. Resistor and capacitor removal by braid or two irons like tweezers.
Pre-tin but flat to resolder with dry iron and regular 3mm bit.
Specialist gear only needed for BGA or similar ICs with no leads
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Re: Ft-817 bad finals update
There should be no shortage of 1L6 tubes. There is because people stockpiled, though experts can re-align to use DK92, which is still available at 1/20th price and just as good, but different electrode capacitances.
Really failure of a well treated 8i7ND / 818 is unlikely. Stockpiling final boards deprives people that have a failed 871/818. It's possible they've not made Final PA boards since 818 production stopped.
More expert repair shops and "hams" can replace the PA transistors, even with ones of a different type that are compatible mechanically and meet or exceed needs for RF bandwidth and power rating. Bias and gain can be adjusted.
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
I believe this is the correct part that is available on eBay
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
Just so I am clear on this topic, if is this the correct understanding?
?
1) The original FT-817 finals are no longer available, at all, so you have to use the 'newer' finals
2) The FT-817ND finals and FT-818 finals are the same, and will fit the FT-817 (non-ND) models
3) But at the moment, the FT-817ND/818 finals are backordered?
?
Thanks,
Greg, K3RW/KH8
|
See comments inline: On Aug 7, 2024, at 14:31, Clyde Lambert <clyde.lambert@...> wrote:
?
So, you purchased a radio without knowing a thing about it. No, I knew about it technically and by reputation, I bought it to give a try-out personally. Then complain about it, by nitpicking everything you dislike, that you should have resurched prior to purchasing it. Out of curiosity, do you find yourself researching the battery charging procedure before buying a radio? How do you determine the impact of the display size without taking the radio in the field? How do you gauge your opinion of QRP operation without working with a QRP radio (I know, turn down your 100 watt radio, but this was only one of the factors that was curious about). I didn't complain, I said it wasn't for me. Then you buy a newer model of it and still nitpick it and still complain about it after getting rid of them. After a few more years in the hobby, my operating interests changed, and I gave it another try. I bought a second one because I thought I would like it, I still struggled with the display/battery issues and sold it. My suggestion is find out about the radio or anything else to see if it would fit your needs before you purchase it. Then you won't have to cry about it. Thanks for the suggestion. Again, I didn't cry about it, I didn't complain about it, I tried it and it didn't suit my needs, period. Many of us who own either the 817 or 818 are happy with them. We purchased them for what they were DESIGNED for. OK, when did I say it was a bad radio? As far as repairability, like any radio that has been discontinued, parts are available for a limited time then no longer. I said the same thing - it is 20+ year old device, EOL was inevitable. That is the facts of life about anything. If one does not consider that, then one should not buy the item, new or used. Whatever. That is, unless you like crying about it later. Who's crying? Just my thought about it.
Clyde KC7BJE Thanks for sharing Clyde, Ken, N2VIP
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Re: Blown final club? I think I have a membership
Data point noted, but I'm under the impression the current spat of "none in stock, none on order" reports were made in August, likely a few weeks after you placed your order July.
But, that does mean they had inventory as recently as last month...
Thanks for the datapoint,
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On Aug 7, 2024, at 16:58, David Fanelli <kb5pgy@...> wrote:
? One data point. I ordered two of the finals boards in July, and I have received them yesterday. The delay was due to the fact that they used my QRZ address, which is a PO Box rather than an street address and Hurricane Beryl.
You can indeed call Yaesu and talk to the nice part lady and order the parts. However there are none in the supply pipe, so basically you're wasting your time. I talked to the service guy and he said there are NO Final units available.?
?
When I talked to the part lady she had no idea if or when said final unit would be available.?
?
So when the service guy said no part, and the parts lady says no part, there's a good chance there's no part.
?
Mike wb8vge
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Doug Jackson
John
Mike EI9FEB
Ham Radio
